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Be patient as I clean up the pictures and all. Obviously I took this over from Fraktur (typeface). Evertype 15:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Angr, there are going to be some more insular letters added to Unicode, yes. Evertype 15:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
In both text samples (fig. 1 and 2) there are both letters with dot above and the corresponding digraphs with h. Is this supposed to be correct? I thought that in a real old typeface you should only use the combinations with dots, though I see that the old font is very decorative and therefore probably often used with the new orthography – but one should certainly not mix up h- and dot-spellings, or is there a reason for this? --Daniel Bunčić ( de wiki · talk · en contrib.) 20:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree that this is okay, my question was really for information, not criticism. But maybe all the same one could make it a bit clearer in the text that there are two orthographies in the sample? --Daniel Bunčić ( de wiki · talk · en contrib.) 17:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Would anyone have the knowledge to make a section about the changeover from Gaelic to Roman script? For example, why did it happen, who made it happen, where there economic or political reasons for this, was its changeover controversial? It appears to be a big issue in books by Irish scholars, for example Regina Uí Chollatáins book An Claidheamh Soluis agus Fáinne an Lae 1899-1932.
Frainc 11:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
{{ Gaelic}} is intended to select Gaelic fonts if installed. dab (𒁳) 09:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Why Gaelic Script given that Irish and not Gaelic is used extensively for the language in Ireland? Eog1916 ( talk) 23:43, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
There is some discussion going on at that the Talk page for that template regarding the classification of typefaces and the place of Gaelic in the paradigm. -- Evertype· ✆ 17:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
This article does not present a coherent view and mixes up two different concepts: the Irish alphabet/writing system and a style of typefaces. The infobox makes the article seem to be about a character set (alphabet) used in Irish, while the lead makes the article seem to be about typeface style. Furthermore, the "Characteristics" section, which currently has no inline citations, expands this problem by suggesting a stylistic classification of typeface depends on the character sort [that's like saying Futura magically stops being a geometric sans-serif face if it doesn't contain the euro symbol (€)]. If you have typefaces with the appropriate characters, you can set Irish in both Helvetica and Colmcille. Similarly, you can set English (or French for that matter) in both Helvetica and Colmcille. This article does not make that distinction clear. If we are to have an article about a typographic style, then it needs to focus less on the Irish language and remove completely the Characteristics/Unicode stuff. Type classification transcends national identity (though that aspect is important in the early history). Conversely, if we are to have an article about Irish typography, then we need to focus less on the single style. Another option would be to have an article about the use of a specific typographic style in the context of Irish language printing (but it'd be strange to limit the scope of an article like that, because where would we discuss Irish printing that wasn't in that style? and where would we discuss the style when used for non-Irish typesetting?) Assuming others agree with me that this article needs more focus, what should the focus of this article be? and can the other concepts be merged with existing articles, or could we create new articles to cover the scope of those?- Andrew c [talk] 23:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Is there anyone who can change the image so that 'Gaelic' is spelled correctly? - anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.150.152 ( talk) 01:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Gaelic type was never traditionally used for either of these languages. -- Evertype· ✆ 16:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Are we talking handwriting or print? Print I'm not sure but handwriting without any doubt. For example:
There's loads more. It just died out sooner on this side of the Irish Sea. Akerbeltz ( talk) 01:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
The hand per se is the insular hand. This page is about type, not the manuscript hand. This is going to take a lot of undoing. -- Evertype· ✆ 15:40, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Controversial? The links to Gaelic script are not talking about Gaelic type, they're talking about Gaelic script. Or would you have a hat note on this article, Gaelic script directs here. For Gaelic script, see Insular script ? Gaelic type is based on Gaelic script. When historical sources speak of the Gaelic script being introduced from Gaul, they obviously aren't talking about the typeface. — kwami ( talk) 16:05, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
The phrase is clearly used to mean the script in the literature. When the typeface is being talked about, it may be ambiguous, but in contexts where it can't mean the typeface, it's unambiguous. A few I've found in a quick search:
It doesn't surprise me that people may not distinguish print from manuscript, especially as the difference is often not relevant. But arguing that we should purposefully confuse the two would be like saying that "Irish alphabet" should redirect to "Irish language" because people often confuse language and writing. — kwami ( talk) 16:48, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Also, it's really bad style to start an article with "The terms X refer to Y". We're not a dictionary. — kwami ( talk) 16:49, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
I'd prefer to use the Gaelic versions of the letters in this comment, but I can't see how to. Anyway, it's unfortunate that the Irish word chosen to represent the script ('Corcaigh') would never in fact be written with an 'h' in that script - instead, the 'g' would be dotted, just like the 'c' in 'Gaelach' at the very top. The 'h' is an anglicism, so what we see here is a false piece of written Irish based on incorrect conversion from the anglicised version of the script. In the true Gaelic script, 'h' is a very uncommon letter (mainly used in rare grammatical constructions such as 'Poblacht na hÉireann' = 'Republic of Ireland'), whereas in the anglicised version it's one of the most common, because it's used for every single consonant with the phonetic mutation called séimhiú ('bh, 'ch', 'dh', 'fh', 'gh', 'mh', 'ph', 'sh' and 'th' - which in the true Gaelic script would simply be dotted 'b', 'c', 'd', 'f', 'g', 'm', 'p', 's' and 't'). In short, 'Corcaigh' is about the worst example you could have thought of! I leave it to someone with greater expertise than I have to suggest a more suitable alternative, though 'Saorstát Éireann' = 'Irish Free State' - which has no séimhiú consonants - might not be bad. 46.189.28.182 ( talk) 17:04, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
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Be patient as I clean up the pictures and all. Obviously I took this over from Fraktur (typeface). Evertype 15:55, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Angr, there are going to be some more insular letters added to Unicode, yes. Evertype 15:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
In both text samples (fig. 1 and 2) there are both letters with dot above and the corresponding digraphs with h. Is this supposed to be correct? I thought that in a real old typeface you should only use the combinations with dots, though I see that the old font is very decorative and therefore probably often used with the new orthography – but one should certainly not mix up h- and dot-spellings, or is there a reason for this? --Daniel Bunčić ( de wiki · talk · en contrib.) 20:04, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I agree that this is okay, my question was really for information, not criticism. But maybe all the same one could make it a bit clearer in the text that there are two orthographies in the sample? --Daniel Bunčić ( de wiki · talk · en contrib.) 17:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Would anyone have the knowledge to make a section about the changeover from Gaelic to Roman script? For example, why did it happen, who made it happen, where there economic or political reasons for this, was its changeover controversial? It appears to be a big issue in books by Irish scholars, for example Regina Uí Chollatáins book An Claidheamh Soluis agus Fáinne an Lae 1899-1932.
Frainc 11:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
{{ Gaelic}} is intended to select Gaelic fonts if installed. dab (𒁳) 09:25, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Why Gaelic Script given that Irish and not Gaelic is used extensively for the language in Ireland? Eog1916 ( talk) 23:43, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
There is some discussion going on at that the Talk page for that template regarding the classification of typefaces and the place of Gaelic in the paradigm. -- Evertype· ✆ 17:49, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
This article does not present a coherent view and mixes up two different concepts: the Irish alphabet/writing system and a style of typefaces. The infobox makes the article seem to be about a character set (alphabet) used in Irish, while the lead makes the article seem to be about typeface style. Furthermore, the "Characteristics" section, which currently has no inline citations, expands this problem by suggesting a stylistic classification of typeface depends on the character sort [that's like saying Futura magically stops being a geometric sans-serif face if it doesn't contain the euro symbol (€)]. If you have typefaces with the appropriate characters, you can set Irish in both Helvetica and Colmcille. Similarly, you can set English (or French for that matter) in both Helvetica and Colmcille. This article does not make that distinction clear. If we are to have an article about a typographic style, then it needs to focus less on the Irish language and remove completely the Characteristics/Unicode stuff. Type classification transcends national identity (though that aspect is important in the early history). Conversely, if we are to have an article about Irish typography, then we need to focus less on the single style. Another option would be to have an article about the use of a specific typographic style in the context of Irish language printing (but it'd be strange to limit the scope of an article like that, because where would we discuss Irish printing that wasn't in that style? and where would we discuss the style when used for non-Irish typesetting?) Assuming others agree with me that this article needs more focus, what should the focus of this article be? and can the other concepts be merged with existing articles, or could we create new articles to cover the scope of those?- Andrew c [talk] 23:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Is there anyone who can change the image so that 'Gaelic' is spelled correctly? - anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.150.152 ( talk) 01:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Gaelic type was never traditionally used for either of these languages. -- Evertype· ✆ 16:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
Are we talking handwriting or print? Print I'm not sure but handwriting without any doubt. For example:
There's loads more. It just died out sooner on this side of the Irish Sea. Akerbeltz ( talk) 01:22, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
The hand per se is the insular hand. This page is about type, not the manuscript hand. This is going to take a lot of undoing. -- Evertype· ✆ 15:40, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Controversial? The links to Gaelic script are not talking about Gaelic type, they're talking about Gaelic script. Or would you have a hat note on this article, Gaelic script directs here. For Gaelic script, see Insular script ? Gaelic type is based on Gaelic script. When historical sources speak of the Gaelic script being introduced from Gaul, they obviously aren't talking about the typeface. — kwami ( talk) 16:05, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
The phrase is clearly used to mean the script in the literature. When the typeface is being talked about, it may be ambiguous, but in contexts where it can't mean the typeface, it's unambiguous. A few I've found in a quick search:
It doesn't surprise me that people may not distinguish print from manuscript, especially as the difference is often not relevant. But arguing that we should purposefully confuse the two would be like saying that "Irish alphabet" should redirect to "Irish language" because people often confuse language and writing. — kwami ( talk) 16:48, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
Also, it's really bad style to start an article with "The terms X refer to Y". We're not a dictionary. — kwami ( talk) 16:49, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
I'd prefer to use the Gaelic versions of the letters in this comment, but I can't see how to. Anyway, it's unfortunate that the Irish word chosen to represent the script ('Corcaigh') would never in fact be written with an 'h' in that script - instead, the 'g' would be dotted, just like the 'c' in 'Gaelach' at the very top. The 'h' is an anglicism, so what we see here is a false piece of written Irish based on incorrect conversion from the anglicised version of the script. In the true Gaelic script, 'h' is a very uncommon letter (mainly used in rare grammatical constructions such as 'Poblacht na hÉireann' = 'Republic of Ireland'), whereas in the anglicised version it's one of the most common, because it's used for every single consonant with the phonetic mutation called séimhiú ('bh, 'ch', 'dh', 'fh', 'gh', 'mh', 'ph', 'sh' and 'th' - which in the true Gaelic script would simply be dotted 'b', 'c', 'd', 'f', 'g', 'm', 'p', 's' and 't'). In short, 'Corcaigh' is about the worst example you could have thought of! I leave it to someone with greater expertise than I have to suggest a more suitable alternative, though 'Saorstát Éireann' = 'Irish Free State' - which has no séimhiú consonants - might not be bad. 46.189.28.182 ( talk) 17:04, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Gaelic type. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:03, 10 October 2017 (UTC)