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A fact from Gürdal Duyar appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 6 December 2022 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
It seems like the Life and Career sections contain quite similar types of information. Maybe these should be combined into one section about their life and career?
Gazozlu (
talk)
19:14, 10 September 2022 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Citations go after periods and commmas, not before. There are a number of issues with citation placement - please go through and make sure they are placed directly after periods and commas with no space between, and that citations are given in order of their numbers throughout the article (i.e. cite [42] should not come before cite [36] where they are both being reused).
Issue addressed.
Other things that need checking throughout the article: names of newspapers should be italicized (Milliyet); some words are squished together (it should be "as well", not "aswell"); unusual capitalization ("world of Art" should be "world of art", "Architecture" should be "architecture, etc). Make sure you check the whole article for these issues.
"who thinks with his hands and portrays..." no need to italicize quote. Check for this elsewhere as well.
One major prose issue to fix - the number of duplicate links. The Manual of Style says that other Wiki articles should be linked only up to twice, once each in the lead and the body of the article (see
MOS:LINKONCE). The easiest way to find and remove duplicate links is the Duplinks-alt tool (
User:Evad37/duplinks-alt) - if you don't have it installed, please install it and use it to comb through the article for excessive links. Let me know if you run into any issues.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
15:25, 1 November 2022 (UTC)reply
One other systemic issue to be addressed: generally, citations should go at the ends of sentences, not in the middle. Unless there is an exceptional reason, such as a direct quote from a source or an attributed opinion that is only found in one source, factual citations should be placed at the ends of sentences only. Please go through and move citations accordingly. Thank you!
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
12:37, 2 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Issues dealt with - many minor prose issues fixed - pass!
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline.
Pass, no issues here.
2b.
reliable sources are
cited inline. All content that
could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
Sources are good, excepting OR from primary sources, which has been removed. Pass.
Some significant uncited passages that appear to be original research, namely:
As Duyar was nearing the age of 40...and removed from its intended location.
Duyars legacy is in part interconnected....those to Ataturk.
Please ensure that all paragraphs and/or groups of sentences are fully cited to appropriate sources.
Big issues addressed, double checking for more subtle issues.
Issue addressed, pass.
Need to re-check since expansion.
Pass, no issues.
The list of exhibitions, mostly from primary sources, strikes me as OR, as well as unnecessary and with unclear criteria for inclusion, and has been removed. If you would like to re-add it, I would encourage you to only include those exhibitions notable enough to be discussed in secondary sources. For now, pass on OR.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
16:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Nothing else significant found in reliable sources. Pass.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see
summary style).
The 'Legacy' and 'Style and position in sculpture history' sections can be combined. Make sure to incorporate them together without redundant sentences/information.
Issues addressed - pass.
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
Turkish War of Independence is more neutral than 'War of Liberation' - also fix broken link (should not be a redlink).
Issues addressed, pass.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing
edit war or content dispute.
Stable now, although there was some expansion after the GA nomination. Pass.
Recently expanded during GA review per discussion below. Possible copyediting to come?
Stable enough to review for GA status. Pass.
6.Illustrated, if possible, by media such as
images,
video, or
audio:
If there is an image of Duyar available anywhere to use, that would be excellent. I presume you've already looked but cannot find one, correct? If there's none available, nothing we can do.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
22:40, 15 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Issue addressed.
Need to re-check since expansion.
I do not think the tiny fair-use images add anything worthwhile to the article - they should be removed. Captions can be simplified across the board - we don't need to give photo credit or sources in the captions, as this information is kept in the photo metadata.
@
Ganesha811: Thank you for your feedback. I'm glad that the subject is interesting to you. I've clarified the source of the Guzel Istanbul image and have contacted the presumed author of the other image to see if they can confirm that they are the author of that photo. I've also addressed the citation placement issue across the article that you mentioned.
Gazozlu (
talk)
20:09, 15 October 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Ganesha811 About your question on an image of Duyar. I have ineed found two good profile images of him,
here on the Geni website and this
photo of a photo in an online article, I assume originally taken from a book. However I don't know if there is a rationale that would let either of those be used without copyright problems.
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:10, 15 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Same goes for photos of his old sculptures that have since been removed/destroyed and thus lost forever if not for some good photos in the two book sources (
Elibal 1973 pages 290,293) and (
Berk & Gezer 1973 pages 197-200) which have been archived by archive.org, which would be great additions to the article if there is some rationale that would let them be used in the articles. However I am not familiar with what that rationale would be or if it would be allowed at all.
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:17, 15 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Gazozlu, question for you: as I start to go through this in more detail, I'm seeing quite a few prose, structure, and referencing issues pop up. They're all fixable, but it will be a fair bit of work. Are you available over the next few days to take this on? I understand this is your first GA nomination, so you are probably eager to see this through. However, we could put the nomination on hold for a couple weeks to allow someone from the
WP:GUILD of Copyeditors to come and go through the article. That might improve it significantly. Overall, it's a high quality article with a lot of good material, it's just a little messy and disorganized at the moment. 11:11, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
@
Ganesha811: I think it sounds like a good idea to let someone from the
WP:GUILD to come look at the article. Could you initiate such a request to them on my behalf? In the mean time I did end up finding some photos that appear to be usable under Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 and uploaded them, and also started to navigate the non-free fair use rationale. So i'll be adding some more photos in the mean time, which might be alot of new content all at once, so putting it on hold might be a good idea so that you are not reviewing in the midst of large additions to the article.--
Gazozlu (
talk)
14:22, 16 October 2022 (UTC)reply
I think it's best if you make the request yourself - you can do so
here. Go ahead and make improvements/expansions before a copyeditor arrives. In the meantime, I'll put the review on hold for two weeks and we can reconvene then. Thanks for your hard work on it so far!
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
14:30, 16 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Thanks! I'll definitely check them out. One thing i've been looking for was a good or feature article about an artist with a list of exhibitions. Not only for the format, but i've been wondering if I should mention or include more references to the exhibitions in the "Life and education" section, i'm unsure because there are almost no secondary sources discussing the exhibitions. The "Select exhibitions" section is based largely on primary sources or mentions in secondary sources.
The same goes for including more works from the "Major works" section in the "Life and education" section, I am avoiding that because it would probably be too much repetition, but maybe it is expected/better if every major work gets at least mentioned by name in the "Life and education section"?
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:15, 19 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Personally, I think it's best to incorporate content about his major works into a single narrative with his life and education, but you can check out other featured biographies on artists (
here's all of them) to get some ideas of how it could work. Generally, if there are no secondary sources discussing the exhibition, it's probably not notable enough to be mentioned. This is an encyclopedia article, after all, a summary of someone's life, not a resume.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
23:34, 19 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Makes sense, that shoudln't be that difficult to swap to at this point because everything in major works is largely organised by time. I think the advantage of having the major works as a separate section is that it allows for more detail per work, such as technical specifications, history, later events (such as a sculpture being removed at a point way later than where in the timeline of the current prose is at), and other details about that specific work that would otherwise mess with the flow of a more general narrative. But I see now that virtually all the feature article examples are in the way that you mentioned.
Gazozlu (
talk)
00:10, 20 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Remember that this article should be focused on Duyar the person. Discussing his work is important, of course, but even his most notable works should be talked about not from an art history or technical perspective but from a perspective of him, his career and his life.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
00:18, 20 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Ganesha811 I've finished with restructuring the article, i've shredded off parts including the "Major works" section entirely. Also an update on the images: turns out the images from the Salt Research archives are non-derivative 4.0 and thus not allowed on commons so I had to delete them. I have used an image from the Salt Research archives and from elsewhere and uploaded them locally with a rationale. I added quite a few more images to support the article. Also an editor from the guild has stopped by and made some edits although not a full copyedit of the article yet.
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:23, 21 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Alright! Thank you for your hard work. Let me know when you would like me to re-open the review and dive back in. Otherwise I'm happy to wait until the 2-week hold is up.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
23:53, 21 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Hey Ganesha811, quick question, is the "Broken" point at 1b something that needs to be addressed or is this meant to just be a note for yourself? --
Gazozlu (
talk)
21:03, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Whoops, that is not an issue, just a spare phrase from when I was moving stuff around re: redlinks. By the way, I've slowed down a little - some real life stuff means I will have to do my prose review slowly over the next few days, but I am definitely still working on this review and we should get there pretty soon. You've put in a lot of excellent work improving this article.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
21:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
This article now passes GA! See some final comments above re: the list of exhibitions, but we are at the GA standard. Congrats to
Gazozlu and anyone else who worked on it.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
16:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
Did you know... that
Gürdal Duyars sculpture Güzel İstanbul which personified the city of Istanbul through the depiction of nude woman was removed after only 9 days?
Did you know... that in 1974, the public debate about a
nude work of art tested the cohesion of the
37th government of Turkey?
Did you know... that a
sculpture of a nude woman erected in Istanbul was removed after only 9 days after being considered indecent by the traditional conservative segment of society?
Did you know ... that a Güzel İstanbul a
nude sculpture by
Gürdal Duyar was considered indecent and removed after only 9 days?
Did you know ... that a Güzel İstanbul a
nude sculpture by
Gürdal Duyar erected in 1974 in Istanbul was considered indecent and removed after only 9 days?
Right now it's ineligble for DYK, which requires creation, 5x expansion, or promotion to GA in the past 7 days (the number can be streched a bit). In the last 7 days, this went from 22077 characters of prose to 17786, so it's actually a decline. That being said, once this gets promoted to GA, you can use these hooks and I'll look at it. I think the most interesting is the "that Güzel İstanbul, a nude sculpture by Gürdal Duyar caused intense public debate and may have lead to the 37th government of Turkey eventually dissolving?" one. You can use
DYK-helper and
DYKcheck for convenience.
~StyyxTalk?10:31, 22 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
ALT0: ... that a peace monument(pictured) was erected for Turkish journalist
Abdi İpekçi in the place that he was shot and killed by an assassin 21 years earlier?
ALT1: ... that
Gürdal Duyar sculpted the Abdi İpekçi Peace Monument(pictured) to be erected on the 21st anniversary of
Abdi İpekçis 1979 assassination in the place where that assassination took place?
ALT2: ... that a monument(pictured) by
Gürdal Duyar was erected in 2000 by the Municipality of
Şişli in the place of, and on the 21 anniversary of, the 1979 assasination of
Abdi İpekçi?
ALT6: ... that in 2000, 21 years after the 1979 assassination of journalist
Abdi İpekçi, a monument(pictured), sculpted by
Gürdal Duyar, was erected in the location on the
street where the killing took place?
Nominated a bit too late but willing to IAR on it. No prose issues in the article. There are a lot of hooks to choose from. Shorter hooks tend to be less boring, and I don't think the mention of
Gürdal Duyar is super necessary. All of the hooks are approved, but kinda like ALT0 and ALT4(b) the most by a small margin. Entirely on the promoter to decide. Photo is properly licensed and can go on the main page.
~StyyxTalk?20:25, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
ALT1: ... that Gürdal Duyar's sculpture Güzel İstanbul(pictured) which personified the city of Istanbul through the depiction of nude woman was removed after only nine days?
ALT4: ... that Gürdal Duyar'ssculpture of a nude woman(pictured) erected in Istanbul was removed after only nine days; being considered indecent by the traditional conservative segment of society?
ALT5: ... that Güzel İstanbul(pictured) a
nude sculpture by Gürdal Duyar was considered indecent and removed after only nine days?
ALT6: ... that Güzel İstanbul(pictured) a
nude sculpture by Gürdal Duyar erected in 1974 in Istanbul was considered indecent and removed after only nine days?
*Note: Güzel İstanbul is not yet a Good Article. Please do not review until that assessment is complete. If GA status is not achieved in a reasonable time, I suggest that the nomination of
Gürdal Duyar proceed on its own, and Güzel İstanbul can have a separate DYK at a later date. MANdARAX XAЯAbИAM 21:50, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Mandarax: It doesn't look like Güzel İstanbul will become a GA soon enough due to the big backlog at nominations, so I have un-bolded Güzel İstanbul and changed the nomination to only Gürdal Duyar.---
Gazozlu (
talk)
20:48, 13 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Okay. The hooks above are about the sculpture. If you want to save those hooks for when you eventually nominate Güzel İstanbul, you may remove them now and replace with other hook(s) about Gürdal Duyar. Or you can keep them here. Whatever you want to do. Also,
Gazozlu, it looks like you've been signing with just three tildes, which results in just your name but not the timestamp. (I added timestamps for you above.) Pings, such as the ones you attempted to do for me, do not work unless the timestamp is also present. Please remember to always sign with four tildes (~~~~). MANdARAX •
XAЯAbИAM06:37, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Gazozlu: The article seems to make extensive use of Geni.com, which is unreliable per
WP:RSPS. There are also other seemingly unreliable sources like Internet Cini, which is clearly a personal blog. Is Galaksi Rehber a blog for an online art shop? Please double-check your sources for reliability and remove or replace them where required.
Additionally, ALT2 and ALT3's claims are not covered by the article, so I cannot consider them for this DYK. The other five seem to be variations of the same claims. What about this compression:
I think the problem with the hook as you propose it, is that it wasn't removed by a unanimous decision of the government, rather the
MSP half of the coalition was the one seeing the sculpture as a problem, and it was eventually removed by the order of
Oğuzhan Asiltürk. All the while being debated in society (mainly between the traditional-conservatives and the pro-art&social-democratic people of society) whether the nude sculpture was obscene/suggestive or just a work of fine art. This affair was something that caused a rift between the two coalition parties because
Necmettin Erbakan to break off the coalition if the sculpture was not removed. This political crisis is covered in (Antmen 2009) and also
this non-free documentary.
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Thank you for the clarification. I would now support ALT2 and ALT3 as well. The sourcing issues should still be addressed, though.
IceWelder [
✉]
07:48, 22 November 2022 (UTC)reply
-Internet Cini blog source has been removed.
-Galaksi Rehber isn't a blog, it's some kind of directory where certain writers propose and write about the things pictured in images and people can upvote them. There is a link to a blog but that is a separate website.
-Some of the sources from Geni have been removed. Some others are text dumps of newspaper articles or are other sources in the photo hosted on Geni.
Gazozlu (
talk)
21:45, 27 November 2022 (UTC)reply
With incorrect sources now removed, the sentence "The next year Duyar made an Ataturk monument for Kayseri which was inaugurated in 1977." is left with no source at all. The sentence should get a new source or be removed. Additionally,
Jonesey95 identified several references that do point to actual sources, which also need fixing.
IceWelder [
✉]
17:42, 28 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Elibal, Gültekin (1973).
Atatürk ve Resim – Heykel [Atatürk and Painting – Sculpture] (in Turkish) (1st ed.). Istanbul: Türkiye İş Bankası Kültür Yayınları.
Özsezgin, Kaya (1977).
"Görsel Sanatçılar Derneğinin yarışması sonuçlandı" [The Visual Artists Association's competition has concluded] (PDF) (in Turkish). Retrieved 18 October 2022 – via İbrahim Örs Archive, Salt Research.
"Kültür Yaşam: Galeriler" [Culture and Life: Galleries] (in Turkish). Atölye Gamsız.
Cumhuriyet. 28 November 1984. p. 4. Retrieved 14 September 2022. Tezhip ve Minyatür Sergisi 29 Kasım 16 ... Nermin Bezmen, Mahmut Cuda,
Avni Arbaş,
Leyla Gamsız, Neşe Aybey, Gürdal Duyar,
Nevin Çokay, Mesut Üldaş, Edıs Tezel, Güler Diler le. resim heykel, minyatür. Türk süsleme ve sanat tarıhı calışma ve yapıtları üzerınde ... ısleyenlerı. CAĞRI ATÖLYE GAMSIZ'a
"Kültür Yaşam: Galeriler" [Culture and Life: Galleries] (PDF) (in Turkish). EDPA Art Gallery.
Cumhuriyet. 26 February 1985. p. 5. Retrieved 14 September 2022.
Resim ve Heykel Müzeleri Derneği (22 June 1985).
"6. Günümüz Sanatçıları İstanbul Sergisi" (in Turkish). pp. 1–14. Retrieved 18 October 2022 – via Gülsün Karamustafa Archive, Salt Research. {{
cite magazine}}: Cite magazine requires |magazine= (
help)
Kınık, Zeynep R. (1991). Çekmeceler / 2 [Alos, Hale Arpacıoğlu, Mustafa Ata, Metin Deniz, Gürdal Duyar, Timur Kerim İncedayı ...] (in Turkish). İstanbul: Ak Yayınları.
ISBN9789757630197.
OCLC165630979.
ISBN975-7630195
Atagök, Tomur. "
ATAG1471" (23 August 2001). Tomur Atagök Collection, File: "Modern Türk: 20. Yüzyılın Ortasından Günümüze Türk Sanatı" , Topkapı Müzesi Has Ahırlar (İstanbul), 2001 – "Modern Turk: Turkish Art in the Second Half of the 20th Century", Royal Stables of the Topkapı Palace Museum (İstanbul), 2001. Istanbul: Salt Research. Retrieved 18 October 2022.
Mersinoğlu, Mustafa Serpil (12 November 2008d).
"Bir Sevdada Buluşmak". geni.com. Retrieved 19 October 2022.
"Asmalimescit Art Gallery". asmalimescitartgallery.com (in Turkish). 2017. Archived from
the original on 1 October 2017. Retrieved 30 Sep 2017. Asmalımescit Sanat Galerisi 1995 yılında kurulmuş olup ilk sergisini Heyleltraş Gürdal Duyar ve Ressam Emel Say ikilisiyle sanatseverlere kapısını açmıştır. [The Asmalımescit Art Gallery was established in 1995 and opened its doors to art lovers with its first exhibition by the duo of Sculptor Gürdal Duyar and Painter
Emel Say.]
Mersinoğlu, Mustafa Serpil (12 November 2008e).
"Galeri SZ". geni.com. Retrieved 19 October 2022.
Added the list of exhibitions which was removed from the article because it didn't fit in. All the selected exhibitions are well cited and here future incorporation of exhibitons into the article in some way can be discussed here.--
Gazozlu (
talk)
16:37, 17 November 2022 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
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A fact from Gürdal Duyar appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 6 December 2022 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
It seems like the Life and Career sections contain quite similar types of information. Maybe these should be combined into one section about their life and career?
Gazozlu (
talk)
19:14, 10 September 2022 (UTC)reply
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Citations go after periods and commmas, not before. There are a number of issues with citation placement - please go through and make sure they are placed directly after periods and commas with no space between, and that citations are given in order of their numbers throughout the article (i.e. cite [42] should not come before cite [36] where they are both being reused).
Issue addressed.
Other things that need checking throughout the article: names of newspapers should be italicized (Milliyet); some words are squished together (it should be "as well", not "aswell"); unusual capitalization ("world of Art" should be "world of art", "Architecture" should be "architecture, etc). Make sure you check the whole article for these issues.
"who thinks with his hands and portrays..." no need to italicize quote. Check for this elsewhere as well.
One major prose issue to fix - the number of duplicate links. The Manual of Style says that other Wiki articles should be linked only up to twice, once each in the lead and the body of the article (see
MOS:LINKONCE). The easiest way to find and remove duplicate links is the Duplinks-alt tool (
User:Evad37/duplinks-alt) - if you don't have it installed, please install it and use it to comb through the article for excessive links. Let me know if you run into any issues.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
15:25, 1 November 2022 (UTC)reply
One other systemic issue to be addressed: generally, citations should go at the ends of sentences, not in the middle. Unless there is an exceptional reason, such as a direct quote from a source or an attributed opinion that is only found in one source, factual citations should be placed at the ends of sentences only. Please go through and move citations accordingly. Thank you!
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
12:37, 2 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Issues dealt with - many minor prose issues fixed - pass!
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline.
Pass, no issues here.
2b.
reliable sources are
cited inline. All content that
could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
Sources are good, excepting OR from primary sources, which has been removed. Pass.
Some significant uncited passages that appear to be original research, namely:
As Duyar was nearing the age of 40...and removed from its intended location.
Duyars legacy is in part interconnected....those to Ataturk.
Please ensure that all paragraphs and/or groups of sentences are fully cited to appropriate sources.
Big issues addressed, double checking for more subtle issues.
Issue addressed, pass.
Need to re-check since expansion.
Pass, no issues.
The list of exhibitions, mostly from primary sources, strikes me as OR, as well as unnecessary and with unclear criteria for inclusion, and has been removed. If you would like to re-add it, I would encourage you to only include those exhibitions notable enough to be discussed in secondary sources. For now, pass on OR.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
16:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Nothing else significant found in reliable sources. Pass.
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see
summary style).
The 'Legacy' and 'Style and position in sculpture history' sections can be combined. Make sure to incorporate them together without redundant sentences/information.
Issues addressed - pass.
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
Turkish War of Independence is more neutral than 'War of Liberation' - also fix broken link (should not be a redlink).
Issues addressed, pass.
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing
edit war or content dispute.
Stable now, although there was some expansion after the GA nomination. Pass.
Recently expanded during GA review per discussion below. Possible copyediting to come?
Stable enough to review for GA status. Pass.
6.Illustrated, if possible, by media such as
images,
video, or
audio:
If there is an image of Duyar available anywhere to use, that would be excellent. I presume you've already looked but cannot find one, correct? If there's none available, nothing we can do.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
22:40, 15 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Issue addressed.
Need to re-check since expansion.
I do not think the tiny fair-use images add anything worthwhile to the article - they should be removed. Captions can be simplified across the board - we don't need to give photo credit or sources in the captions, as this information is kept in the photo metadata.
@
Ganesha811: Thank you for your feedback. I'm glad that the subject is interesting to you. I've clarified the source of the Guzel Istanbul image and have contacted the presumed author of the other image to see if they can confirm that they are the author of that photo. I've also addressed the citation placement issue across the article that you mentioned.
Gazozlu (
talk)
20:09, 15 October 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Ganesha811 About your question on an image of Duyar. I have ineed found two good profile images of him,
here on the Geni website and this
photo of a photo in an online article, I assume originally taken from a book. However I don't know if there is a rationale that would let either of those be used without copyright problems.
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:10, 15 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Same goes for photos of his old sculptures that have since been removed/destroyed and thus lost forever if not for some good photos in the two book sources (
Elibal 1973 pages 290,293) and (
Berk & Gezer 1973 pages 197-200) which have been archived by archive.org, which would be great additions to the article if there is some rationale that would let them be used in the articles. However I am not familiar with what that rationale would be or if it would be allowed at all.
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:17, 15 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Gazozlu, question for you: as I start to go through this in more detail, I'm seeing quite a few prose, structure, and referencing issues pop up. They're all fixable, but it will be a fair bit of work. Are you available over the next few days to take this on? I understand this is your first GA nomination, so you are probably eager to see this through. However, we could put the nomination on hold for a couple weeks to allow someone from the
WP:GUILD of Copyeditors to come and go through the article. That might improve it significantly. Overall, it's a high quality article with a lot of good material, it's just a little messy and disorganized at the moment. 11:11, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
@
Ganesha811: I think it sounds like a good idea to let someone from the
WP:GUILD to come look at the article. Could you initiate such a request to them on my behalf? In the mean time I did end up finding some photos that appear to be usable under Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 and uploaded them, and also started to navigate the non-free fair use rationale. So i'll be adding some more photos in the mean time, which might be alot of new content all at once, so putting it on hold might be a good idea so that you are not reviewing in the midst of large additions to the article.--
Gazozlu (
talk)
14:22, 16 October 2022 (UTC)reply
I think it's best if you make the request yourself - you can do so
here. Go ahead and make improvements/expansions before a copyeditor arrives. In the meantime, I'll put the review on hold for two weeks and we can reconvene then. Thanks for your hard work on it so far!
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
14:30, 16 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Thanks! I'll definitely check them out. One thing i've been looking for was a good or feature article about an artist with a list of exhibitions. Not only for the format, but i've been wondering if I should mention or include more references to the exhibitions in the "Life and education" section, i'm unsure because there are almost no secondary sources discussing the exhibitions. The "Select exhibitions" section is based largely on primary sources or mentions in secondary sources.
The same goes for including more works from the "Major works" section in the "Life and education" section, I am avoiding that because it would probably be too much repetition, but maybe it is expected/better if every major work gets at least mentioned by name in the "Life and education section"?
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:15, 19 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Personally, I think it's best to incorporate content about his major works into a single narrative with his life and education, but you can check out other featured biographies on artists (
here's all of them) to get some ideas of how it could work. Generally, if there are no secondary sources discussing the exhibition, it's probably not notable enough to be mentioned. This is an encyclopedia article, after all, a summary of someone's life, not a resume.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
23:34, 19 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Makes sense, that shoudln't be that difficult to swap to at this point because everything in major works is largely organised by time. I think the advantage of having the major works as a separate section is that it allows for more detail per work, such as technical specifications, history, later events (such as a sculpture being removed at a point way later than where in the timeline of the current prose is at), and other details about that specific work that would otherwise mess with the flow of a more general narrative. But I see now that virtually all the feature article examples are in the way that you mentioned.
Gazozlu (
talk)
00:10, 20 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Remember that this article should be focused on Duyar the person. Discussing his work is important, of course, but even his most notable works should be talked about not from an art history or technical perspective but from a perspective of him, his career and his life.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
00:18, 20 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Ganesha811 I've finished with restructuring the article, i've shredded off parts including the "Major works" section entirely. Also an update on the images: turns out the images from the Salt Research archives are non-derivative 4.0 and thus not allowed on commons so I had to delete them. I have used an image from the Salt Research archives and from elsewhere and uploaded them locally with a rationale. I added quite a few more images to support the article. Also an editor from the guild has stopped by and made some edits although not a full copyedit of the article yet.
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:23, 21 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Alright! Thank you for your hard work. Let me know when you would like me to re-open the review and dive back in. Otherwise I'm happy to wait until the 2-week hold is up.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
23:53, 21 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Hey Ganesha811, quick question, is the "Broken" point at 1b something that needs to be addressed or is this meant to just be a note for yourself? --
Gazozlu (
talk)
21:03, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Whoops, that is not an issue, just a spare phrase from when I was moving stuff around re: redlinks. By the way, I've slowed down a little - some real life stuff means I will have to do my prose review slowly over the next few days, but I am definitely still working on this review and we should get there pretty soon. You've put in a lot of excellent work improving this article.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
21:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)reply
This article now passes GA! See some final comments above re: the list of exhibitions, but we are at the GA standard. Congrats to
Gazozlu and anyone else who worked on it.
—Ganesha811 (
talk)
16:57, 5 November 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
Did you know... that
Gürdal Duyars sculpture Güzel İstanbul which personified the city of Istanbul through the depiction of nude woman was removed after only 9 days?
Did you know... that in 1974, the public debate about a
nude work of art tested the cohesion of the
37th government of Turkey?
Did you know... that a
sculpture of a nude woman erected in Istanbul was removed after only 9 days after being considered indecent by the traditional conservative segment of society?
Did you know ... that a Güzel İstanbul a
nude sculpture by
Gürdal Duyar was considered indecent and removed after only 9 days?
Did you know ... that a Güzel İstanbul a
nude sculpture by
Gürdal Duyar erected in 1974 in Istanbul was considered indecent and removed after only 9 days?
Right now it's ineligble for DYK, which requires creation, 5x expansion, or promotion to GA in the past 7 days (the number can be streched a bit). In the last 7 days, this went from 22077 characters of prose to 17786, so it's actually a decline. That being said, once this gets promoted to GA, you can use these hooks and I'll look at it. I think the most interesting is the "that Güzel İstanbul, a nude sculpture by Gürdal Duyar caused intense public debate and may have lead to the 37th government of Turkey eventually dissolving?" one. You can use
DYK-helper and
DYKcheck for convenience.
~StyyxTalk?10:31, 22 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
ALT0: ... that a peace monument(pictured) was erected for Turkish journalist
Abdi İpekçi in the place that he was shot and killed by an assassin 21 years earlier?
ALT1: ... that
Gürdal Duyar sculpted the Abdi İpekçi Peace Monument(pictured) to be erected on the 21st anniversary of
Abdi İpekçis 1979 assassination in the place where that assassination took place?
ALT2: ... that a monument(pictured) by
Gürdal Duyar was erected in 2000 by the Municipality of
Şişli in the place of, and on the 21 anniversary of, the 1979 assasination of
Abdi İpekçi?
ALT6: ... that in 2000, 21 years after the 1979 assassination of journalist
Abdi İpekçi, a monument(pictured), sculpted by
Gürdal Duyar, was erected in the location on the
street where the killing took place?
Nominated a bit too late but willing to IAR on it. No prose issues in the article. There are a lot of hooks to choose from. Shorter hooks tend to be less boring, and I don't think the mention of
Gürdal Duyar is super necessary. All of the hooks are approved, but kinda like ALT0 and ALT4(b) the most by a small margin. Entirely on the promoter to decide. Photo is properly licensed and can go on the main page.
~StyyxTalk?20:25, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
ALT1: ... that Gürdal Duyar's sculpture Güzel İstanbul(pictured) which personified the city of Istanbul through the depiction of nude woman was removed after only nine days?
ALT4: ... that Gürdal Duyar'ssculpture of a nude woman(pictured) erected in Istanbul was removed after only nine days; being considered indecent by the traditional conservative segment of society?
ALT5: ... that Güzel İstanbul(pictured) a
nude sculpture by Gürdal Duyar was considered indecent and removed after only nine days?
ALT6: ... that Güzel İstanbul(pictured) a
nude sculpture by Gürdal Duyar erected in 1974 in Istanbul was considered indecent and removed after only nine days?
*Note: Güzel İstanbul is not yet a Good Article. Please do not review until that assessment is complete. If GA status is not achieved in a reasonable time, I suggest that the nomination of
Gürdal Duyar proceed on its own, and Güzel İstanbul can have a separate DYK at a later date. MANdARAX XAЯAbИAM 21:50, 9 November 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Mandarax: It doesn't look like Güzel İstanbul will become a GA soon enough due to the big backlog at nominations, so I have un-bolded Güzel İstanbul and changed the nomination to only Gürdal Duyar.---
Gazozlu (
talk)
20:48, 13 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Okay. The hooks above are about the sculpture. If you want to save those hooks for when you eventually nominate Güzel İstanbul, you may remove them now and replace with other hook(s) about Gürdal Duyar. Or you can keep them here. Whatever you want to do. Also,
Gazozlu, it looks like you've been signing with just three tildes, which results in just your name but not the timestamp. (I added timestamps for you above.) Pings, such as the ones you attempted to do for me, do not work unless the timestamp is also present. Please remember to always sign with four tildes (~~~~). MANdARAX •
XAЯAbИAM06:37, 15 November 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Gazozlu: The article seems to make extensive use of Geni.com, which is unreliable per
WP:RSPS. There are also other seemingly unreliable sources like Internet Cini, which is clearly a personal blog. Is Galaksi Rehber a blog for an online art shop? Please double-check your sources for reliability and remove or replace them where required.
Additionally, ALT2 and ALT3's claims are not covered by the article, so I cannot consider them for this DYK. The other five seem to be variations of the same claims. What about this compression:
I think the problem with the hook as you propose it, is that it wasn't removed by a unanimous decision of the government, rather the
MSP half of the coalition was the one seeing the sculpture as a problem, and it was eventually removed by the order of
Oğuzhan Asiltürk. All the while being debated in society (mainly between the traditional-conservatives and the pro-art&social-democratic people of society) whether the nude sculpture was obscene/suggestive or just a work of fine art. This affair was something that caused a rift between the two coalition parties because
Necmettin Erbakan to break off the coalition if the sculpture was not removed. This political crisis is covered in (Antmen 2009) and also
this non-free documentary.
Gazozlu (
talk)
23:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Thank you for the clarification. I would now support ALT2 and ALT3 as well. The sourcing issues should still be addressed, though.
IceWelder [
✉]
07:48, 22 November 2022 (UTC)reply
-Internet Cini blog source has been removed.
-Galaksi Rehber isn't a blog, it's some kind of directory where certain writers propose and write about the things pictured in images and people can upvote them. There is a link to a blog but that is a separate website.
-Some of the sources from Geni have been removed. Some others are text dumps of newspaper articles or are other sources in the photo hosted on Geni.
Gazozlu (
talk)
21:45, 27 November 2022 (UTC)reply
With incorrect sources now removed, the sentence "The next year Duyar made an Ataturk monument for Kayseri which was inaugurated in 1977." is left with no source at all. The sentence should get a new source or be removed. Additionally,
Jonesey95 identified several references that do point to actual sources, which also need fixing.
IceWelder [
✉]
17:42, 28 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Elibal, Gültekin (1973).
Atatürk ve Resim – Heykel [Atatürk and Painting – Sculpture] (in Turkish) (1st ed.). Istanbul: Türkiye İş Bankası Kültür Yayınları.
Özsezgin, Kaya (1977).
"Görsel Sanatçılar Derneğinin yarışması sonuçlandı" [The Visual Artists Association's competition has concluded] (PDF) (in Turkish). Retrieved 18 October 2022 – via İbrahim Örs Archive, Salt Research.
"Kültür Yaşam: Galeriler" [Culture and Life: Galleries] (in Turkish). Atölye Gamsız.
Cumhuriyet. 28 November 1984. p. 4. Retrieved 14 September 2022. Tezhip ve Minyatür Sergisi 29 Kasım 16 ... Nermin Bezmen, Mahmut Cuda,
Avni Arbaş,
Leyla Gamsız, Neşe Aybey, Gürdal Duyar,
Nevin Çokay, Mesut Üldaş, Edıs Tezel, Güler Diler le. resim heykel, minyatür. Türk süsleme ve sanat tarıhı calışma ve yapıtları üzerınde ... ısleyenlerı. CAĞRI ATÖLYE GAMSIZ'a
"Kültür Yaşam: Galeriler" [Culture and Life: Galleries] (PDF) (in Turkish). EDPA Art Gallery.
Cumhuriyet. 26 February 1985. p. 5. Retrieved 14 September 2022.
Resim ve Heykel Müzeleri Derneği (22 June 1985).
"6. Günümüz Sanatçıları İstanbul Sergisi" (in Turkish). pp. 1–14. Retrieved 18 October 2022 – via Gülsün Karamustafa Archive, Salt Research. {{
cite magazine}}: Cite magazine requires |magazine= (
help)
Kınık, Zeynep R. (1991). Çekmeceler / 2 [Alos, Hale Arpacıoğlu, Mustafa Ata, Metin Deniz, Gürdal Duyar, Timur Kerim İncedayı ...] (in Turkish). İstanbul: Ak Yayınları.
ISBN9789757630197.
OCLC165630979.
ISBN975-7630195
Atagök, Tomur. "
ATAG1471" (23 August 2001). Tomur Atagök Collection, File: "Modern Türk: 20. Yüzyılın Ortasından Günümüze Türk Sanatı" , Topkapı Müzesi Has Ahırlar (İstanbul), 2001 – "Modern Turk: Turkish Art in the Second Half of the 20th Century", Royal Stables of the Topkapı Palace Museum (İstanbul), 2001. Istanbul: Salt Research. Retrieved 18 October 2022.
Mersinoğlu, Mustafa Serpil (12 November 2008d).
"Bir Sevdada Buluşmak". geni.com. Retrieved 19 October 2022.
"Asmalimescit Art Gallery". asmalimescitartgallery.com (in Turkish). 2017. Archived from
the original on 1 October 2017. Retrieved 30 Sep 2017. Asmalımescit Sanat Galerisi 1995 yılında kurulmuş olup ilk sergisini Heyleltraş Gürdal Duyar ve Ressam Emel Say ikilisiyle sanatseverlere kapısını açmıştır. [The Asmalımescit Art Gallery was established in 1995 and opened its doors to art lovers with its first exhibition by the duo of Sculptor Gürdal Duyar and Painter
Emel Say.]
Mersinoğlu, Mustafa Serpil (12 November 2008e).
"Galeri SZ". geni.com. Retrieved 19 October 2022.
Added the list of exhibitions which was removed from the article because it didn't fit in. All the selected exhibitions are well cited and here future incorporation of exhibitons into the article in some way can be discussed here.--
Gazozlu (
talk)
16:37, 17 November 2022 (UTC)reply