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Reviewer: Khazar2 ( talk · contribs) 13:23, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
The footnoting is regularly problematic in paragraphs like this one:
The footnotes give a page range rather than specific pages that the sources are coming from, and are still more complicated by the fact that two sources are being combined; an editor who wants to verify a fact from this paragraph now has to do 30-40 pages of reading. It would be better to more clearly indicate what facts are coming from what sources, and on what pages. Since this is noncontroversial material, I don't think it's an issue for the GA Review, but it's something that could be improved. -- Khazar2 ( talk) 15:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
---|---|---|
1. Well-written: | ||
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. | ||
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. | ||
2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. | ||
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). | ||
2c. it contains no original research. | ||
3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. | See below | |
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). | See below | |
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. | ||
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. | ||
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. | ||
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | ||
7. Overall assessment. | Fails to meet 3a and 3b at this time |
One item conspicuously lacking in the article are brief explanations of his major works. Crime and Punishment and Brothers K are mentioned several times, for example, without a simple two- to three-sentence summary of each book's subject, structure, and themes. While the reader might glean bits here and there from the general Themes section, a more direct approach to this would be helpful.
At more than 15,000 words, the article is far too long for its subject, closer to a novella than an encyclopedia article; my first reading took more than an hour. I have great respect for the amount of time that's been invested here, but the desire for thoroughness has to be balanced against the need for an accessible article. Lots of detail can and should be cut, particularly in the biography section--the cemetery in which one of FD's children is buried, alternate names he considered for his children, the print run of a stamp with his picture, the blow-by-blow details of his move to Prague, the fact that he once ordered a copy of the Quran, etc. I would suggest cutting the article's length by at least one third. (If desired, much of the work that's been done could be preserved as a WP:SPINOFF at something like Personal life of Fyodor Dostoevsky.) A good model would be the featured article Anton Chekhov (just under 8,000 words), which has excellent summary sentences like "Chekhov also enjoyed a series of love affairs, one with the wife of a teacher", rather than detailing biographical speculations about each.
I'm willing to put the review on hold for a week for the above work to be done if you're interested. Otherwise, I think I have to say "not yet". -- Khazar2 ( talk) 15:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
I will now go through this article and remove trivia. I will also check the Kjetsaa pages, since I used two editions. Please give me some time. Regards.-- Tomcat ( 7) 17:35, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Coming back to this a week later, it still appears to me that the article is incomplete without discussion of the major novels, as I mentioned above. There's a good paragraph on Brothers K now, but still almost no direct discussion of Crime and Punishment and The Idiot, for example; a nonexpert reader wouldn't be able to gather what these books were even about from this article. (Some of the generalizations also seem to have factual problems--Raskolnikov and Ivan don't actually commit suicide, do they? Is this meant metaphorically in some way?). My suggestion is to rework this article with more emphasis on and explanation of FD's writing and less on his various financial travails, affairs, etc.--you might even consider giving a dedicated subsections to at least some of the major novels, since these are the things for which FD is truly remembered.
Thanks for all your hard work on this one. While I don't think it's up to GA yet, I'm confident it'll get there. -- Khazar2 ( talk) 15:50, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Comment from Truthkeeper
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Reviewer: Khazar2 ( talk · contribs) 13:23, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
The footnoting is regularly problematic in paragraphs like this one:
The footnotes give a page range rather than specific pages that the sources are coming from, and are still more complicated by the fact that two sources are being combined; an editor who wants to verify a fact from this paragraph now has to do 30-40 pages of reading. It would be better to more clearly indicate what facts are coming from what sources, and on what pages. Since this is noncontroversial material, I don't think it's an issue for the GA Review, but it's something that could be improved. -- Khazar2 ( talk) 15:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
---|---|---|
1. Well-written: | ||
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. | ||
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. | ||
2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. | ||
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). | ||
2c. it contains no original research. | ||
3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. | See below | |
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). | See below | |
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. | ||
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. | ||
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. | ||
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | ||
7. Overall assessment. | Fails to meet 3a and 3b at this time |
One item conspicuously lacking in the article are brief explanations of his major works. Crime and Punishment and Brothers K are mentioned several times, for example, without a simple two- to three-sentence summary of each book's subject, structure, and themes. While the reader might glean bits here and there from the general Themes section, a more direct approach to this would be helpful.
At more than 15,000 words, the article is far too long for its subject, closer to a novella than an encyclopedia article; my first reading took more than an hour. I have great respect for the amount of time that's been invested here, but the desire for thoroughness has to be balanced against the need for an accessible article. Lots of detail can and should be cut, particularly in the biography section--the cemetery in which one of FD's children is buried, alternate names he considered for his children, the print run of a stamp with his picture, the blow-by-blow details of his move to Prague, the fact that he once ordered a copy of the Quran, etc. I would suggest cutting the article's length by at least one third. (If desired, much of the work that's been done could be preserved as a WP:SPINOFF at something like Personal life of Fyodor Dostoevsky.) A good model would be the featured article Anton Chekhov (just under 8,000 words), which has excellent summary sentences like "Chekhov also enjoyed a series of love affairs, one with the wife of a teacher", rather than detailing biographical speculations about each.
I'm willing to put the review on hold for a week for the above work to be done if you're interested. Otherwise, I think I have to say "not yet". -- Khazar2 ( talk) 15:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
I will now go through this article and remove trivia. I will also check the Kjetsaa pages, since I used two editions. Please give me some time. Regards.-- Tomcat ( 7) 17:35, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
Coming back to this a week later, it still appears to me that the article is incomplete without discussion of the major novels, as I mentioned above. There's a good paragraph on Brothers K now, but still almost no direct discussion of Crime and Punishment and The Idiot, for example; a nonexpert reader wouldn't be able to gather what these books were even about from this article. (Some of the generalizations also seem to have factual problems--Raskolnikov and Ivan don't actually commit suicide, do they? Is this meant metaphorically in some way?). My suggestion is to rework this article with more emphasis on and explanation of FD's writing and less on his various financial travails, affairs, etc.--you might even consider giving a dedicated subsections to at least some of the major novels, since these are the things for which FD is truly remembered.
Thanks for all your hard work on this one. While I don't think it's up to GA yet, I'm confident it'll get there. -- Khazar2 ( talk) 15:50, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Comment from Truthkeeper