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I revised the whole page based on my 27 years of designing and calibrating fuel injection systems. I changed many of the previous contributor's content, but only if that content was untrue or grossly misleading. I did not alter previous contributor's edits regarding the specifics of the various manufacturers' EFI systems. Sometimes I reworded other's contributions to better convey the message, but I didn't remove any ideas.
For better or worse, I had to re-outline the whole page as these dramatic revisions rendered the old outline obsolete or incompatible.
My goal was to "clean it up" from a technical perspective, while still including all previous contributions.
I am a novice using Wikipedia so my formatting might be less than ideal, and I know I added links that don't have entries, but in time they will I hope.
Sattyam Sattyam 19:51, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Explained in more detail power, efficiency, emission benefits. Sattyam 14:50, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
I tried to clean up that edit of 05:47, 2 January 2006, but it's still of poor quality when compared to the rest of the article and should probably just be deleted. Mexcellent 06:07, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
This page is great as far as it goes, but uses US-centric terms and examples throughout. More international balance would be of benefit Andrewferrier 16:39, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
This article would greatly benefit from illustrations. Also, are the injectors ever mounted directly over the cylinder head (replacing intake valves)? What is their injection pressure? What does an injector look like? Does it have a single or multiple outlet holes? I assume the output is an atomized mist, right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.166.144.32 ( talk • contribs) 14:10, 2006 June 20.
I have reverted the new animated diagram to the older static one. Please disregard the animated diagram until such a time as the mechanism it shows is more detailed and correct, if it is a point of contention then I shall do it myself. At the moment its an animated bastardisation of one of my diagrams:
. There seems to be confussion about where compression occurs and the complex solenoid system is rather simplified. This diagram and another (
) seem to have been edited as part of some kind of campaign against my work by [User:Cuddlyable3], as well as some rather unpleasent postings on my user page. They seem to be unaware of the correct procedure for tagging, replacing and crediting images. Even under the free license agreement I should still be credited on the images page for creating it, not just 'an improvement on another wikipedia diagram', the free license agreement allows one to edit my work shamelessly, but it doesn't permit one to take work without proper credit. I was unhappy with the quality of the two new diagrams, which I do not feel is up to wikipedia's standards. As a result I have redrawn them myself, Gas has been changed to Fuel by popular demand.
WikipedianProlific
(Talk)
02:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I would like to see specifications of injectors, for example, what voltage/current do they run at? What are their impedances? How about oscilloscope photos of the driving waveforms? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.166.144.32 ( talk • contribs) 14:10, 2006 June 20.
Hi there,
The 1974 Porsche 914 was among the first to get the L-Jetronic, but only because it used an engine that was devised for the VW 412. So the VW 412 should be listed as the "first", the 914 only re-used that engine (1.8 liter, engine code EC). jens —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.174.153.29 ( talk • contribs) 11:09, 2006 July 15.
Can somebody add some information on piezoelectric injectors? They are used in many modern common rail diesel engines, as they can inject fuel more times per cycle at higher pressures. -- NaBUru38 20:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
The article states that since 1990, almost all cars sold in first world countries use fuel injection. Seems like a rather arbitrary year to me. Fuel injection was phased in gradually rather than suddenly. For instance, Honda sold a carburetted Civic up until 1993. Mazda sold its 323 sedan with a carburetted 1.6L until 1996. Toyota did not offer ANY fuel injection in its pickups until 1997, and Mitsubishi continued to offer a carburetted engine in its Express van up until 2003! I will change the article to read "since the 1990s". Davez621 13:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Certainly there have been accidents involving hypodermic injection of fuel via high-pressure diesel injectors when careless people working on the fuel injection system fail to follow appropriate repair protocols. There have also been accidents involving fires when careless people working on carburetors fail to follow appropriate repair procedures, and accidents involving broken bones when careless people cleaning their house gutters fail to use ladders properly. So what? This really does not belong in an encyclopædic article on fuel injection—certainly not under its own subheading—for it is a hazard of carelessness, not of fuel injection. One cannot get injected with fuel while casually poking around the engine compartment; one must deliberately remove the injector and power it up in order for the hazard to exist. The injectors are not just sitting there waiting to inject someone with fuel. Moreover, the hypodermic injection hazard exists only with the high-pressure injectors found on diesel engines, while this article is overwhelmingly about fuel injection on spark-ignition engines. Therefore, a more appropriate place for a comment on the hypodermic injection hazard is in the diesel engine article's fuel injection section. -- Scheinwerfermann 20:57, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Cuddly, scare quote is not a neologism, I didn't create it, and I'm neither labouring nor interested in promoting it, here or elsewhere. I still have no interest in a pissing contest with you. Thank you for being mature, thoughtful, and coöperative in your contributions to Wikipedia. — Scheinwerfermann ( talk) 17:21, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I have reverted LMB's deletion of the assertion regarding Flexible-fuel vehicles virtually all being equipped with EFI, because the assertion is correct. The carbureted gaseous-fuel setups LMB has in mind are found almost exclusively in field retrofitments, rather than as factory equipment, and vehicles so equipped are generally known as dual-fuel vehicles. The FFV terminology refers specifically to vehicles factory-equipped to run on gasoline, or on one or more of several alcohols, or on a mix of gasoline and one or more of several alcohols. -- Scheinwerfermann 21:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
"Crank/Cam Position: Hall effect sensor"
Are Crank Position Sensor and Cam Position Sensor the same? If different, do some cars have both? Do all cars have both? Are the both abbreviated CPS?-
69.87.199.144
01:13, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
The camshaft(s) of an engine are turned via chains, belts or gears by the crankshaft so in principle a sensor for either crank or camshaft obtains the same information. A crank position sensor gets more direct, and therefore more accurate, indication of the piston movements. However on a 4-stroke engine the crank angle alone is ambiguous information that does not distinguish between compression and exhaust strokes. - Updated by Cuddlyable3 ( talk) 16:58, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Manufactures are using these two words to describe some systems. Can this article adress the differences between the two? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smartmlp ( talk • contribs) 14:24, 22 May 2007
I have removed the US/globalise tag, because it is not warranted. The evolution section presently does a good job of elucidating the worldwide chronology, particularly the fact that while US emissions regulations were more stringent earlier than other nations' rules, European suppliers and automakers were first to market with viable volume-production fuel injection systems. The section may benefit from some additional chronological detail regarding those vehicles equipped with fuel injection in North America but carburettors elsewhere in the world, but it does not appear to be unduly US-centric, therefore the tag is not applicable. -- Scheinwerfermann 00:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Welcome Scheinwerfermann with your edit to our diagram to show the fuel flow. Have you considered how the fuel flows past the solid moving part which is labelled "Plunger" and seems to stand in its way? Cuddlyable3 07:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I have just reuploaded a cleaner version of Scheinwerfermann modifications, I hope thats okay. I can make changes quickly and easily to the diagram as I have the layered photoshop masterfiles for it. We have to ensure image quality stays crisp here else the image will end up in category:Bad Images. If we can keep the quality on the level it is then the diagram will have a shot a Featured Picture status, which if we ever want to get this article featured will help alot. WikipedianProlific (Talk) 08:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I have (twice now) removed this section. It contained one good, solid, informative, encyclopædic, and link-laden paragraph which really belonged near the top of the article, and has been moved there. The rest of the section contained only redundancy, statements and links already present in better detail and with better elucidation in the appropriate sections of the article. Furthermore, these redundancies were presented in grocery list format, rather than in proper prose. If the list had comprised content not already present in the article, it would've been worth rewriting, but since the list did not contain anything not already written — in proper format — in the article, there was no point to doing so. -- Scheinwerfermann 14:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Types of Direct Injection put into alphabetical order to prevent biasing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.188.158.228 ( talk) 11:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I added the original bit about Pennington's early use of fuel injection. I may remove it as not being important enough to warrant mention, or lacking proper documentation. Only one article I can find online mentions his fuel system as "fuel injection" though several of his patents can be found online which illustrate and describe his system, none specifically refer to it as fuel injection (however as illustrated and described, it takes the form of a fuel nozzle located within the intake port of an engine) and I don't want to jump into the realm of "original research" over a minor footnote in FI history. Patent number: 570439 [2] Patent number: 570440 [3] This patent giving the clearest description and illustration, though the design varies slightly between all patents. Patent number: 574262 [4]
hi to all , friends i,m engineering student and working on a project related to automobile .ecu is one of the main componenent i need to work on.but i dont have enough knoledge about ECU.i need to know that can we calculate ammount of fuel is being used or injectd by ECU.can we use any output from ECU to calculate ammount of fuel being injected.
is there anyone who can help me ,plz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mail me:-knevin22@live.in —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.98.93.46 ( talk) 14:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
hi to all , friends i,m engineering student and working on a project related to automobile .ecu is one of the main componenent i need to work on.but i dont have enough knoledge about ECU.i need to know that can we calculate ammount of fuel is being used or injectd by ECU.can we use any output from ECU to calculate ammount of fuel being injected.
is there anyone who can help me ,plz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mail me:-knevin22@live.in —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.98.93.46 ( talk) 14:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
The wiki page SEFI redirects here, but I see nothing on the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xvi ( talk • contribs) 10:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
SEFI just stands for Sequential efi...as opposed to batch-fired. Just means injectors fire sequentially instead of in batches of 2 or more (commonly in bank counts...an 8 cylinder engine would fire 4 injectors in one bank of cylinders at once, then the other bank's injectors).
What were you looking for? 20:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
This is the first I've heard of Central Port Injection having a "high failure rate". It is inefficient, which is stated and explained, but as for it "failing", I have not heard or seen any evidence anywhere to support this claim. Zchris87v 05:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I revised the whole page based on my 27 years of designing and calibrating fuel injection systems. I changed many of the previous contributor's content, but only if that content was untrue or grossly misleading. I did not alter previous contributor's edits regarding the specifics of the various manufacturers' EFI systems. Sometimes I reworded other's contributions to better convey the message, but I didn't remove any ideas.
For better or worse, I had to re-outline the whole page as these dramatic revisions rendered the old outline obsolete or incompatible.
My goal was to "clean it up" from a technical perspective, while still including all previous contributions.
I am a novice using Wikipedia so my formatting might be less than ideal, and I know I added links that don't have entries, but in time they will I hope.
Sattyam Sattyam 19:51, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Explained in more detail power, efficiency, emission benefits. Sattyam 14:50, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
I tried to clean up that edit of 05:47, 2 January 2006, but it's still of poor quality when compared to the rest of the article and should probably just be deleted. Mexcellent 06:07, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
This page is great as far as it goes, but uses US-centric terms and examples throughout. More international balance would be of benefit Andrewferrier 16:39, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
This article would greatly benefit from illustrations. Also, are the injectors ever mounted directly over the cylinder head (replacing intake valves)? What is their injection pressure? What does an injector look like? Does it have a single or multiple outlet holes? I assume the output is an atomized mist, right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.166.144.32 ( talk • contribs) 14:10, 2006 June 20.
I have reverted the new animated diagram to the older static one. Please disregard the animated diagram until such a time as the mechanism it shows is more detailed and correct, if it is a point of contention then I shall do it myself. At the moment its an animated bastardisation of one of my diagrams:
. There seems to be confussion about where compression occurs and the complex solenoid system is rather simplified. This diagram and another (
) seem to have been edited as part of some kind of campaign against my work by [User:Cuddlyable3], as well as some rather unpleasent postings on my user page. They seem to be unaware of the correct procedure for tagging, replacing and crediting images. Even under the free license agreement I should still be credited on the images page for creating it, not just 'an improvement on another wikipedia diagram', the free license agreement allows one to edit my work shamelessly, but it doesn't permit one to take work without proper credit. I was unhappy with the quality of the two new diagrams, which I do not feel is up to wikipedia's standards. As a result I have redrawn them myself, Gas has been changed to Fuel by popular demand.
WikipedianProlific
(Talk)
02:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I would like to see specifications of injectors, for example, what voltage/current do they run at? What are their impedances? How about oscilloscope photos of the driving waveforms? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.166.144.32 ( talk • contribs) 14:10, 2006 June 20.
Hi there,
The 1974 Porsche 914 was among the first to get the L-Jetronic, but only because it used an engine that was devised for the VW 412. So the VW 412 should be listed as the "first", the 914 only re-used that engine (1.8 liter, engine code EC). jens —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.174.153.29 ( talk • contribs) 11:09, 2006 July 15.
Can somebody add some information on piezoelectric injectors? They are used in many modern common rail diesel engines, as they can inject fuel more times per cycle at higher pressures. -- NaBUru38 20:19, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
The article states that since 1990, almost all cars sold in first world countries use fuel injection. Seems like a rather arbitrary year to me. Fuel injection was phased in gradually rather than suddenly. For instance, Honda sold a carburetted Civic up until 1993. Mazda sold its 323 sedan with a carburetted 1.6L until 1996. Toyota did not offer ANY fuel injection in its pickups until 1997, and Mitsubishi continued to offer a carburetted engine in its Express van up until 2003! I will change the article to read "since the 1990s". Davez621 13:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Certainly there have been accidents involving hypodermic injection of fuel via high-pressure diesel injectors when careless people working on the fuel injection system fail to follow appropriate repair protocols. There have also been accidents involving fires when careless people working on carburetors fail to follow appropriate repair procedures, and accidents involving broken bones when careless people cleaning their house gutters fail to use ladders properly. So what? This really does not belong in an encyclopædic article on fuel injection—certainly not under its own subheading—for it is a hazard of carelessness, not of fuel injection. One cannot get injected with fuel while casually poking around the engine compartment; one must deliberately remove the injector and power it up in order for the hazard to exist. The injectors are not just sitting there waiting to inject someone with fuel. Moreover, the hypodermic injection hazard exists only with the high-pressure injectors found on diesel engines, while this article is overwhelmingly about fuel injection on spark-ignition engines. Therefore, a more appropriate place for a comment on the hypodermic injection hazard is in the diesel engine article's fuel injection section. -- Scheinwerfermann 20:57, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
Cuddly, scare quote is not a neologism, I didn't create it, and I'm neither labouring nor interested in promoting it, here or elsewhere. I still have no interest in a pissing contest with you. Thank you for being mature, thoughtful, and coöperative in your contributions to Wikipedia. — Scheinwerfermann ( talk) 17:21, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
I have reverted LMB's deletion of the assertion regarding Flexible-fuel vehicles virtually all being equipped with EFI, because the assertion is correct. The carbureted gaseous-fuel setups LMB has in mind are found almost exclusively in field retrofitments, rather than as factory equipment, and vehicles so equipped are generally known as dual-fuel vehicles. The FFV terminology refers specifically to vehicles factory-equipped to run on gasoline, or on one or more of several alcohols, or on a mix of gasoline and one or more of several alcohols. -- Scheinwerfermann 21:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
"Crank/Cam Position: Hall effect sensor"
Are Crank Position Sensor and Cam Position Sensor the same? If different, do some cars have both? Do all cars have both? Are the both abbreviated CPS?-
69.87.199.144
01:13, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
The camshaft(s) of an engine are turned via chains, belts or gears by the crankshaft so in principle a sensor for either crank or camshaft obtains the same information. A crank position sensor gets more direct, and therefore more accurate, indication of the piston movements. However on a 4-stroke engine the crank angle alone is ambiguous information that does not distinguish between compression and exhaust strokes. - Updated by Cuddlyable3 ( talk) 16:58, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Manufactures are using these two words to describe some systems. Can this article adress the differences between the two? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smartmlp ( talk • contribs) 14:24, 22 May 2007
I have removed the US/globalise tag, because it is not warranted. The evolution section presently does a good job of elucidating the worldwide chronology, particularly the fact that while US emissions regulations were more stringent earlier than other nations' rules, European suppliers and automakers were first to market with viable volume-production fuel injection systems. The section may benefit from some additional chronological detail regarding those vehicles equipped with fuel injection in North America but carburettors elsewhere in the world, but it does not appear to be unduly US-centric, therefore the tag is not applicable. -- Scheinwerfermann 00:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Welcome Scheinwerfermann with your edit to our diagram to show the fuel flow. Have you considered how the fuel flows past the solid moving part which is labelled "Plunger" and seems to stand in its way? Cuddlyable3 07:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I have just reuploaded a cleaner version of Scheinwerfermann modifications, I hope thats okay. I can make changes quickly and easily to the diagram as I have the layered photoshop masterfiles for it. We have to ensure image quality stays crisp here else the image will end up in category:Bad Images. If we can keep the quality on the level it is then the diagram will have a shot a Featured Picture status, which if we ever want to get this article featured will help alot. WikipedianProlific (Talk) 08:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I have (twice now) removed this section. It contained one good, solid, informative, encyclopædic, and link-laden paragraph which really belonged near the top of the article, and has been moved there. The rest of the section contained only redundancy, statements and links already present in better detail and with better elucidation in the appropriate sections of the article. Furthermore, these redundancies were presented in grocery list format, rather than in proper prose. If the list had comprised content not already present in the article, it would've been worth rewriting, but since the list did not contain anything not already written — in proper format — in the article, there was no point to doing so. -- Scheinwerfermann 14:52, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Types of Direct Injection put into alphabetical order to prevent biasing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.188.158.228 ( talk) 11:54, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I added the original bit about Pennington's early use of fuel injection. I may remove it as not being important enough to warrant mention, or lacking proper documentation. Only one article I can find online mentions his fuel system as "fuel injection" though several of his patents can be found online which illustrate and describe his system, none specifically refer to it as fuel injection (however as illustrated and described, it takes the form of a fuel nozzle located within the intake port of an engine) and I don't want to jump into the realm of "original research" over a minor footnote in FI history. Patent number: 570439 [2] Patent number: 570440 [3] This patent giving the clearest description and illustration, though the design varies slightly between all patents. Patent number: 574262 [4]
hi to all , friends i,m engineering student and working on a project related to automobile .ecu is one of the main componenent i need to work on.but i dont have enough knoledge about ECU.i need to know that can we calculate ammount of fuel is being used or injectd by ECU.can we use any output from ECU to calculate ammount of fuel being injected.
is there anyone who can help me ,plz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mail me:-knevin22@live.in —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.98.93.46 ( talk) 14:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
hi to all , friends i,m engineering student and working on a project related to automobile .ecu is one of the main componenent i need to work on.but i dont have enough knoledge about ECU.i need to know that can we calculate ammount of fuel is being used or injectd by ECU.can we use any output from ECU to calculate ammount of fuel being injected.
is there anyone who can help me ,plz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mail me:-knevin22@live.in —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.98.93.46 ( talk) 14:57, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
The wiki page SEFI redirects here, but I see nothing on the topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xvi ( talk • contribs) 10:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
SEFI just stands for Sequential efi...as opposed to batch-fired. Just means injectors fire sequentially instead of in batches of 2 or more (commonly in bank counts...an 8 cylinder engine would fire 4 injectors in one bank of cylinders at once, then the other bank's injectors).
What were you looking for? 20:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
This is the first I've heard of Central Port Injection having a "high failure rate". It is inefficient, which is stated and explained, but as for it "failing", I have not heard or seen any evidence anywhere to support this claim. Zchris87v 05:40, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |