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![]() | On 10 October 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from From the River to the Sea to From the river to the sea. The result of the discussion was moved. |
The introduction says:
Islamist militant faction Hamas used the phrase in its 2017 charter. Usage of the phrase by such Palestinian militant groups has led critics to claim that it advocates for the dismantling of Israel ...
If one actually reads paragraph 20 of the 2017 chapter, where "from the river to the sea" appears, it does not talk about the dismantling of Israel.
I'd like a minor edit:
FROM:
Hamas used the phrase in its 2017 charter.
TO:
Hamas used the phrase in paragraph 20 of its 2017 charter, referring to a two-state solution. [FOOTNOTE/REFERENCE]
The footnote/reference can either directly cite
paragraph 20 of the Hamas 2017 charter as here, or else directly quote the relevant text in a footnote:
Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, ...
The current Wikipedia article seems to entirely ignore the Hamas sentence: However, ... 4th of June 1967, ...
An objective reading of that sentence in the Hamas 2017 charter seems to imply a "two-state solution" based on the borders of "4th of June 1967", while still refusing to recognize the state of Israel. The Hamas 2017 charter certainly does not speak about the "dismantling of Israel".
Gene (
talk)
22:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Does not match the reference, nor is the statement backed by historical evidence. Statement and citation should be removed. 2607:FEA8:1C41:7B00:4CD3:103E:6087:53D5 ( talk) 23:02, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
The following statement
> Many Palestinian activists have called it "a call for peace and equality" after decades of Israeli military rule over Palestinians while for Jews it is seen as a call for the "destruction" of Israel
is in the lead. This seems to me transparently racist as it ascribes a belief to an entire ethnic group. However, interestingly enough, a similar statement is made in the cited AP article (which is odd since I'd expect this to violate their editorial guidelines). Despite this I think it should be removed and replaced with something non-racist. JDiala ( talk) 10:51, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
References
The political-ideological lineage of the Likud party, which Binyamin Netanyahu has run since 2005 (and before that in 1996-99) can be traced back to a fascist-inspired strain of 'revisionist Zionism' which emerged in the interwar period. Before Israel's foundation, this movement campaigned for the Zionist project to incorporate the entire territory of the British mandate on both banks of the Jordan, including Transjordania, which Britain granted to the Hashemite dynasty in 1921, creating present-day Jordan. Later, having focused its ambition on mandatory Palestine, the movement criticised the Zionism favoured by David Ben Gurion's Labour movement (MAPAI), for having stopped fighting in 1949 before it took the West Bank and Gaza.
The irony is that it wasn't the Palestinians, but the Zionists, who first invented this "from the river to the sea" mantra. And that was nearly half a century before the First Intifada and the birth of Hamas.
Netanyahu Minister to Nations Recognizing Palestine: 'Only Israel From the River to the Sea' Selfstudier ( talk) 16:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Given the status of Mondoweiss as a source WP:MREL I don't think it should be used on this article. Thoughts? MaskedSinger ( talk) 10:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
From the river to the sea article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3,
4Auto-archiving period: 7 days
![]() |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 28 August 2020. The result of the discussion was delete and redirect. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
![]() | On 10 October 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from From the River to the Sea to From the river to the sea. The result of the discussion was moved. |
The introduction says:
Islamist militant faction Hamas used the phrase in its 2017 charter. Usage of the phrase by such Palestinian militant groups has led critics to claim that it advocates for the dismantling of Israel ...
If one actually reads paragraph 20 of the 2017 chapter, where "from the river to the sea" appears, it does not talk about the dismantling of Israel.
I'd like a minor edit:
FROM:
Hamas used the phrase in its 2017 charter.
TO:
Hamas used the phrase in paragraph 20 of its 2017 charter, referring to a two-state solution. [FOOTNOTE/REFERENCE]
The footnote/reference can either directly cite
paragraph 20 of the Hamas 2017 charter as here, or else directly quote the relevant text in a footnote:
Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, ...
The current Wikipedia article seems to entirely ignore the Hamas sentence: However, ... 4th of June 1967, ...
An objective reading of that sentence in the Hamas 2017 charter seems to imply a "two-state solution" based on the borders of "4th of June 1967", while still refusing to recognize the state of Israel. The Hamas 2017 charter certainly does not speak about the "dismantling of Israel".
Gene (
talk)
22:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
Does not match the reference, nor is the statement backed by historical evidence. Statement and citation should be removed. 2607:FEA8:1C41:7B00:4CD3:103E:6087:53D5 ( talk) 23:02, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
The following statement
> Many Palestinian activists have called it "a call for peace and equality" after decades of Israeli military rule over Palestinians while for Jews it is seen as a call for the "destruction" of Israel
is in the lead. This seems to me transparently racist as it ascribes a belief to an entire ethnic group. However, interestingly enough, a similar statement is made in the cited AP article (which is odd since I'd expect this to violate their editorial guidelines). Despite this I think it should be removed and replaced with something non-racist. JDiala ( talk) 10:51, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
References
The political-ideological lineage of the Likud party, which Binyamin Netanyahu has run since 2005 (and before that in 1996-99) can be traced back to a fascist-inspired strain of 'revisionist Zionism' which emerged in the interwar period. Before Israel's foundation, this movement campaigned for the Zionist project to incorporate the entire territory of the British mandate on both banks of the Jordan, including Transjordania, which Britain granted to the Hashemite dynasty in 1921, creating present-day Jordan. Later, having focused its ambition on mandatory Palestine, the movement criticised the Zionism favoured by David Ben Gurion's Labour movement (MAPAI), for having stopped fighting in 1949 before it took the West Bank and Gaza.
The irony is that it wasn't the Palestinians, but the Zionists, who first invented this "from the river to the sea" mantra. And that was nearly half a century before the First Intifada and the birth of Hamas.
Netanyahu Minister to Nations Recognizing Palestine: 'Only Israel From the River to the Sea' Selfstudier ( talk) 16:50, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
Given the status of Mondoweiss as a source WP:MREL I don't think it should be used on this article. Thoughts? MaskedSinger ( talk) 10:59, 2 July 2024 (UTC)