This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | → | Archive 15 |
I was researching for a paper on Nietzsche (and the Greeks) and came across Corssen's name. Wikipedia'd him and added a short section to the end of the article... if anybody here is interested in adding, removing, or editing my addition, please do so. Just figured this would be a good place to make this known. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Paul_Corssen#Influence_on_Friedrich_Nietzsche Thanks, -DWRZ 04:31, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I uploaded three photographs I took at the Nietzsche Archiv in Weimar, Germany on 2006.VII.16 to the Wikipedia Commons . I'm definitely not a good photographer, but feel free to use them if they contribute to the article. I selected the license kind of randomly, let me know if it's not really Wikipedia-ish and I'll change it. :) -DWRZ 04:03, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
There has already been a lengthy debate on anti-Semitism and N., but no mention of sexism. I don’t believe either is related to his philosophy, but of the two, his sexism seems the most glaringly obvious. So obvious, indeed, that I won’t trouble with sources. Surely the mention of one merits the other. ~ nude grey ~ 10/2
it's great to see wikipedia as the stronghold of mediocrity...--james3443
my question is that surely i must be able to put in somewhere a small quote or what ever you like to call it to explain how powerful this influence has been ... as well as living on the street in my youth and fighting for freedom of expression all my life ... i have also studied - modern political thought and contemorary political philosophy with academics at phd level at goldsmiths college university of greenwich and the open university ... these globally respected professors at these colleges became my friends as well as mentors and supervisors and if you want their names to validate my credentials you can have them ... there are many other ways that i am working alongside many others to fight for freedom of expression in this world ...
this is the forum to link our knowlege together ... ther is no such thing as objectivity in this style of writing all has a subjective dimension ... i am trying to bring the knowledge through translation and the aesthetics of music and performance to a wider audience ... i hope you can help me with this who ever you are ... the cardinal ...
thankyou Gothean for responding ... how do we say what or who is important ... a man standing in front of a tank in china ... a suicide bomber ... a man who died on a cross ... the point as marx argued is to change the world not just talk about it ... 25 years ago when 'false gestures for a devious public' and 'megomania' were released i had many death threats ... i have spent the last quater of a century learning or attempting to be objective or 'neutral' ... it might be argued that the swiss were neutral in the second world war ... it might be argued that being neutral could have seen the nazi's obliterate the jewish race ... it may be argued that being neutral is about keeping yourself safe ... so no i guess i would not argue that im being neutral ... are you
... are you staying safe ... thats ok ... but some people feel that is not the way to contribute to humanity ... i am not making a judgment here ... or do you think i ab being subjective again ... in my criticism of your stand point ... walter benjamin took a premptive strike on his life ... it turns out he did not need to ... was it important or not ... what i would say is important is we care ... and we do all that is within our power ... or within our understanding or our ability ... to show how much we care ... by taking some kind of action ... i have placed my self in a place to do this ...
i am also a youth worker who has recently taken 40 young people over to belfast from england ... we went to a school where catholic and protestant dance sing and create together ... they were so pleased to see us because they still feel isolated from the world ... their schools are still segregated ... i just organized a trip for young arab and jewish children ... who have been going to school together at a school called 'hand in hand' ... since 1997 ... to come to england at christmas 2006 ... they accepted the offer ... i raised the funding and still have it ... then i had an email from them saying they were stuck in a bunker ... because of the recent acceleration in troubles ... but would i please not forget about them ...
i have reformed 'the blood' and am going to challenge and put my self in harms way to challenge ... anywhere where people are abused ... nietzsche said he would be angry if a student of his did not learn more than he had learned ...i think i can achieve more than talk ... or die trying ... i do not consider importan ... but just an idea that feels right to me as an individual ... an individual because of a wrier like nietzsche ... strangley enough this idea feels like the most objective neutral feeling i have and yet - paradoxically - it is obviously overflowing with intent ... yes i do think i have something to add to the wikipedia page on nietzsche ... you can take your stand point even though adorno argues dialectically that there is no such thing ... but most - importantly - remember some one asked for help and you thought you knew better ... cheers the cardinal
yes unlike nietzsche i do have a vanity problem: do your research: the cardinal
read my response to Gothean about what is important or notable: the cardinal
ty: the cardinal
i still think the point is being missed here ... all writers performers etc etc ... have arrogance ... vanity if you will ... it is this character-spirit that drives them ... that encourages them to question their own ethics and the ethics of others ... alongside the incrediblie technological communications age we dwell in now ... there are many people who have also changed and those changes are important to record and explore ... all i am trying to do is explore ... and leave an ethnographic statement of that exploration ... i do not compare myself to anyone else ... i am both a zombie and unique at the same time ... all i am trying to do is identify what has happened tom me ... because of others ... because of my self ... how i have coped with this/that journey ... how i feel about the journey i am at this moment in now ... i feel a responsibility to do this ... wikipedia is a wondrous idea ... i am just challenging its flexibility to adapt ... to remain multi dimensional ... to be perpetually chameleonic ... whilst remaining authentic to the discourse and reflexivity of humanity and thereto the history of humankind as it unfolds ... cheers the cardinal
Nietzsche said this at the beginning of ecce homo ... i can not remember it verbatum ... and i do not have the book to hand ... the cardinal
This guy, the cardinal (what a name), makes me laugh. Nietzsche would have spat on you. Nietzsche hated followers. If you have read him, you should know this. And have you considered the way you talk? It's like the whole universe revolves around you. If this is an adaptation of Nietzsche's style of writing, you've failed at it, cardinal. Nietzsche never made himself a martyr in his any of his writings. He said himself in The Twilight of the Idols that people mistakenly estimate the value of martyrs, their beliefs or their cause because of the blood they shed. Just look at the way you talk, how you mention all your great deeds and selflessness, it's exactly what Nietzsche hates in a human being. So, it's just appropriate that whatever you added on Nietzsche's article be deleted. If you want to be important, strive hard to establish your name on whatever field you think you are interested in. And then someday, perhaps when you've already gone nuts like Nietzsche, perhaps you'll be famous, and then we can consider adding a whole paragraph about yourself on Nietzsche's page. Moonwalkerwiz 06:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
The Cardinal is in NO WAY a follower and if Nietzche would spit on anyone "Moonwalkerwiz" would be one of them. There is hypocrisy laced throughout your above message and missguided hatred. Your lack of insight on seeing or even trying to see, for that matter, the meaning of taking on a name like "The Cardinal" makes me deem you imaginatively weak. Infact you are a follower by trying to be so complacent with the cowardliness and stale thinking that has permeated this discussion (if that was not obvious).
"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The Cardinal (AKA Bill Sykes) has briefly mentioned some of his aide to humanity, and has done so in a way that Nietzche would consider acceptable. 1-demensional thinking is the way of the 19th century, it's time to see things how Nietzche would have, what he hated most where opinions that safely placed ones self behind an Ideal. Opinions like the ones here, self-serving, fruitless (besides to condemn), and demeaning to constructive thinking.
"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I try to respect the principals behind Wikipedia as best I can, but perhaps occasionally you could think outsides these rigid guidlines? Nietzche simply wanted less talk and more thought. 65.74.121.106 02:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC) George W.
Lastly: "There are no facts, only interpretations." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Schopenhauer described the loss of selfishness as the way to lead a moral and good life. According to him, egoism and selfishness are the prime causes of much pain and suffering in the world. The best people, for him, are those who deny themselves, like saints. Nietzsche reacted to this in a polar opposite, 180° manner. Nietzsche wanted a celebration and aggrandizement of the self. He considered selflessness to be a sickness. The highest types of humanity, according to Nietzsche, should exercise their will to power and affirm themselves. This doctrine of Nietzsche has never failed to attract people who feel themselves to be above most other humans. It has encouraged their self-absorption and justified their lack of compassion or concern for people other than themselves. In 1924, the Leopold and Loeb crime brought general disapproval of Nietzsche because he was one of the criminals' favorite authors and his teachings were thought to have contributed to the murder. In Germany,the National Socialists agreed with Nietzsche's praise of egoism and had no reservations about killing their opponents. The ethics of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche are directly opposite each other. Nietzsche's extreme affirmation of the self developed as a direct protest against Schopenhauer's extreme denial of the self. Lestrade 17:45, 11 October 2006 (UTC)L
I agree with you but the point should be made that the reason for this is because N's is an open philosophy. That is, after all, why we are all here!
And if we're going to mention egoism gone wrong, shouldn't we also mention it as a peculiarity that accompanies great artistic deeds?
Also, isn't the doctrine of Self Overcoming rather like certain Buddist doctrines, rather similar to S after all - though be it - perverted? I don’t interpret quite the polarity that you do. Nevertheless, it would be rather ironic, as S was a notorious glutton and N a stoic in life. Just some self-important thoughts. ~nude grey~
you could argue that nietzsche was a 'glutton' for punishment and that through that struggle you become a glutton for life ... whence a glutton for life thereto you strive to make that which you are a glutton for incredible ... so incredible that you encourage others to strive toward it ... in is the reflection o humanity that you see in your own soul ...
gosh, despite your syntax ... I think I understand what you are getting at ... perhaps the virtue of struggle itself? but this isn’t the forum for such highly enjoyable debates. I’m more curious about the stated polarity between S and N and if this is ultimately true. My concern is that as the poster might be presenting a biased view that cleverly slanders N. I too think it’s interesting that so many bad guys invoke N’s philosophy as an excuse to commit dubious deeds ... and conversely people dismiss his thoughts because of this. And yet the same is never charged of Machiavelli or Plato. Perhaps it has something to do with N’s very paradoxical rhetoric. And then the page is looking pretty good too.
~nude grey~
ha, ha ... yes i prefer my information come from the texts rather than shadowy pedants disguising value judgments in over-simplified scholarship. you fail to grasp the nuance involved. the Ubermensch is exactly that: the Over-man: the Self-overcame ... the denier and creator of the new will. there is a transcendental similarity here to S. ~nude grey~
I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 17:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
It is good that this article has been delisted, and I hope someone with expertise can correct it, or at least add the appropriate contrary arguments. Its total exoneration of Nietzsche's influence on the development of Nazism is absurd. Indeed, he died decades before the Nazis rose to prominence, and could not have forseen the consequences of his ideas. No one knows what his view of the Nazis might have been, and he may in fact have disapproved of them. However, to expunge from his record the clear, unavoidable fact that his ideas were primary in their influence on the eventual ideology of the Nazis is to engage in outright dishonesty. It is dishonesty of an extremely dangerous sort, because someone approaching Nietzsche without the benfit of hindsight might be more inclined than they should be to embrace his ideas uncritically.
Specifically, Nietzsche's primary argument—the rejection of morality in favor of "evolutionary advancement" through any means, leading to his concept of the "Űber-Mensch"—cannot be seen as anything other than the genesis, and the absolute underpinning, of the Nazis' "Master Race". While there are many other examples of his influence, to whitewash this primary aspect out of his record is particularly unthinkable.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.45 ( talk • contribs)
I still think the "influence and reception" section is deeply flawed. There should be a separate section devoted specifically to the relationship between Nietzsche and Nazism, and the controversies involved. 67.142.130.31 22:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree, the connection between Nietzsche and Nazism should not be overlooked. Even writers who admired Nietzsche, such as Camus, acknowledged that Nietzsche could be interpreted in a Nazist light. Note that I am also an admirer of Nietzsche's work, and I'm aware that the man would hardly support the Nazist regime — he had nothing but contempt for Bismarck's militarists attitudes, and called any army who had as an end war a product of madness —, yet that doesn't mean there aren't ways to find in his thought proto-Nazist claims (in particular with regards to eugeny). Daniel Nagase 01:31, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
as long as we're holding Nietzsche responsible for the misinterpretation and manipulation of his work, why don’t we hold Jesus responsible for the Inquisition, and the kkk. In fact I think the later makes much more sense. This connection of Nietzsche to Nazism and in some cases nihilism is juvenile and the clearest mark of someone who has not bothered to read Nietzsche's work before condemning his own distortion of it. But for those of you who can't take the time to see how utterly contradictory these connections are (its as simple as reading what he has to say on anti-semitism and nationalism), I'd recommend at least looking at TSZ's "of the bestowing virtue." "of the three evil things" and "of the new idol" to give yourself the slightest grasp of Nietzsche's true understanding of political power.
this article does -- Chris 18:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
In the section on Nietzsche's move to Basel it is stated that "During his philological work in Basel he discovered that the ancient poetic meter related only to the length of syllables, different from the modern, accentuating meter."
This is something that every schoolboy from the Dark Ages (to mark the exact time when accentual meter began to be used in the Romance languages) knew; in Constantinople ditto. It's no discovery at all.
The inserter of this statement must be referring to something and perhaps got it garbled. What could this statement be trying to refer to in reality?
Ottocs 09:33, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
This was known ages before Nietzsche, and it was common sense by then. Wilamowitz was already writing treatises on greek metre, and so was Richard Porson. Don't talk about what you evidently have absolutely no clue of, please. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
201.19.143.44 (
talk •
contribs)
Why are there no critics of Nietzsche listed? ken 21:47, 11 November 2006 (UTC)kdbuffalo
Why not start a "Criticisms" section of the article or the Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche article? -- Harpakhrad11 19:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I spammed the entire article with links to polemic. I don't know if I should have, if you want, be bold and revert everything but the first link. -Slash- 05:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Also, the article needs a clear link to the philosophy article. -Slash- 03:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
By the second half of the 20th century he had become regarded as a highly significant and influential figure in modern philosophy. Last sentence of the intro paragraph, understatement of the 20th century? How about him founding and introducing the very concepts that we consider modern philosophy. He was years ahead of his time and advanced philosophy further than anyone had or has.
I would love to know specifically, and in a bit of detail, how those rock "musicians" and entertainers were influenced by Nietzsche. Could it be that they make the claim in order to seem more interesting? I would bet that most of them are illiterate (or dyslexic, as is the fashion), and have never understood even one of Nietzsche's sentences. Lestrade 23:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
Oh, so all Swedes are geniuses who are fully read up on Nietzsche? Uh huh, yeah, sure.
I added a template for an organized debate on Nietzsche. One of the goals of this debate is to improve the contents of an article. This talk page is overcrowded with templates at the moment. Perhaps some of the templates can be merged or removed.-- Daanschr 16:09, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I have read most of Nietzsche's Why I am so Wise and, although I have left the book at home and am now at the University of Guelph, I believe that Nietzsche claimed to be Polish in the book. I recall him claiming to be purely Polish and not in the least German. Nietzsche went on to insult German diet and claimed it was a cause of their rigid disposition (these are not his words, but they are of a similar affect).
I hate to make these claims without the book on hand to site, but if anyone does have a copy of the work in question, it would be an interesting addition to the page to note that Nietzsche claimed to be Polish, perhaps an early sign of psychological illness.
JackdeGaul 08:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)JackdeGaul
it's just a family legend. nothing to see with "an early sign of psychological illness..."
According to a passage in the book "The Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche" by H.L. Mencken, in the book's first section, "Nietzsche the Man", under the first chapter "Boyhood and Youth", in the fifth paragraph, Mencken writes:
The clan came out of Poland, like so many other families of Eastern Germany, at the time of the sad, vain wars. Legend maintains that it was noble in its day and Nietzsche himself liked to think so. The name, says Elisabeth, was originally Nietzschy. "Germany is a great nation," Nietzsche would say, "only because its people have so much Polish blood in their veins.... I am proud of my Polish descent. I remember that in former times a Polish noble, by his simple veto, could overturn the resolution of a popular assembly. There were giants in Poland in the time of my forefathers."
source: Mencken, Henry L., The Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche, California: The Noontide Press, 1982
Nietzsche declared that he was a Pole and I am strongly convinced that a serious discussion should be initiated whether he should be considered a "purely German philosopher". -- 213.158.197.84 22:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)----
Please note Talk:Radwan coat of arms and have a look at the article now and then. User:Interrex has already started an edit war in the German wikipedia about this.-- Chef aka Pangloss 11:40, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Could someone add something about his musical work please? XdiabolicalX 22:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
True. I am not sure if he was a composer or what, but there should be some mention. Maybe by adding "and composer/musician/whatever" next to "Prussian-born philosopher"?
you can find more info on this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche_Music_Project supposedly he felt that his composition "Hymn to life" should be listened to in order to properly interpret his work. but I haven't heard it and feel like ive done a good job grasping his ideas..
The picture I have uploaded is of the quality and time in which Nietzsche is today most often depicted, and also more representative of the Fröhliche Wissenschaft-Zarathustra-Jenseits period, which as an epoch arguably in turn is more representative of Nietzsche than those of earlier works such as Geburt der Tragödie, from which the older image is taken. Therefore, it should in my opinion be favoured over the old one. Staretsen 18:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Someone please enlighten me as to why Nietzsche's birthday needs to be in the opening sentence when it is there, again, below his portrait; and why his IPA (what I assume is a phonetic pronounciation) is there, too. I feel it would add to the general readability and elegance of this page to move the IPA as well as omitting the birth/death dates. I would like to hear others' opinions on this. - Bordello 04:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
As for now, I will be bold! and remove it myself and see what happens. - Bordello 04:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I think the "key concepts" section of the article is very poor and its contents do not correspond to the heading. I would hope someone could make a clear, very short summary of Nietzsche's main contributions to philosophy. This is exactly what I was looking for when I came to this article and could not find it.
Thank you.
Steveq34 17:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree that it is difficult to determine Nietzsche's key concepts since he uses perspectivism and his style of writing is heavy on metaphors. However, I think Steveq34 has a point here. We should at least mention Nietzsche's more common philosphical coinage in the Key Concepts section, like eternal recurrence, master and slave morality, the will to power, resentment, etcetera. Moonwalkerwiz 00:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know if modern classicists take seriously the concepts of the Apollonian or Dionysiac? 152.23.84.168 02:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps this has been settled already, but is there a consensus about Nietzsche's family supposedly being of Polish descent? I've seen this discussed elsewhere, including the German and Polish Wiki articles on Nietzsche, although I don't understand enough Polish to know what the latter says.
Today's chuckle: As a student back in the '60s, I remember seeing the grafito, "Nietzsche is pietzsche" — based alas on mispronounciation of the name. Sca 18:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
The several discussions you have mentioned (I get tired of posting the links: here, here, here and here) show there is a general consensus that his ancestry is, at least from the 17th century, not Polish. And once more, I refer to Hans von Müllers text "Nietzsches Vorfahren" published by Richard Frank Krummel and Evelyn Krummel in Nietzsche-Studien No. 31 (2002).-- Chef aka Pangloss 20:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Note 15 leads to a dead url.
hi all, i added a section detailing the SUP's new versions of nietzsche's works to the nietzsche article, primarily because the current english translations of nietzsche's work (kaufmann etc) are fairly poor and i thought it would be useful to drum up some more support. it seems their well has dried up and there hasn't been a book released in the series in several years, although i spoke with them in an email and they said another volume is due later this year.
i did the same in the carl jung article about the philemon foundation, hoping perhaps some richer people than i might find out and donate to it so i can read some more of his work without having to wait perhaps thirty years before it gets published :)
the text of the section was as follows:
Stanford University Press
- Stanford University Press has started the process of preparing a new edition of the collected works of Nietzsche in English, although the last new title in the series appeared in 1999. Three works have emerged so far: - - * Unfashionable Observations (1995) - * Human, All Too Human (I) (1997) - * Unpublished Writings from the period of Unfashionable Observations (1999) - - See http://www.sup.org/browse.cgi?x=series&y=The%20Complete%20Works%20of%20Friedrich%20Nietzsche for more details.
anyway, considering that both of these sections represent major (20+ year) projects devoted to the new translations to replace the old ones for scholars and students, should we still mention them on wikipedia or not?
note: the change is here, deleted by Madhava http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Friedrich_Nietzsche&diff=prev&oldid=109277201
best regards, dave —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.247.227.213 ( talk) 21:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
See also Archive 6 and Archive 4 for others debates concerning Stirner.
I have just removed Stirner from Nietzshce's influences (and Nietzsche from who Stirner influenced) because i thought that an earlier discussion agreed that the evidence on the matter is too inconclusive. However i realise that it had been left up for a while, and was wondering whether any attitudes had changed?I still think that the dispute over whether he read the book, was influenced etc. deserves a mention and was wondering what others thought. But i don't think he should be on the influences list. Itafroma 14:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
"Several authors have pointed out other occurrences of this hypothesis in contemporary thought. Thus, the anthroposophist Rudolf Steiner, who revised the first catalogue of Nietzsche's personal library in January 1896, pointed out that Nietzsche would have read something similar in Eugen Dühring's Courses on philosophy (1875), which Nietzsche readily criticized. Lou Andreas-Salomé pointed out that Nietzsche referred to Ancient cyclical conceptions of time, in particular by the Pythagoreans, in the Inactual Considerations. Henri Lichtenberger and Charles Andler have pinpointed three works contemporary to Nietzsche which carried on the same hypothesis: J.G. Vogt, Die Kraft. Eine real-monistische Weltanschauung (1878), Auguste Blanqui, L'éternité par les astres (1872) and Gustave Le Bon, L'homme et les sociétés (1881). However, Gustave Le Bon is not quoted anywhere in Nietzsche's manuscripts; and Auguste Blanqui was named only in 1883. But Vogt's work, on the other hand, was read by Nietzsche precisely during this summer of 1881 in Sils-Maria <ref> See Posthumous fragment, 11 [312] 1881; See also Mazzino Montinari, Friedrich Nietzsche, 1974 (German transl. De Gruyter, 1991, French translation PUF, 2001) and also Nietzsche's personal library (see also [3] and revision of previous catalogues on the École Normale Supérieure's website) </ref>
Nietzsche knew about Stirner from reading one of his favorite books, Lange's History of Materialism. In that book, Lange wrote the following short passage:
Stirner went so far in his notorious work, 'Der Einzige und Sein Eigenthum' (1845), as to reject all moral ideas. Everything that in any way, whether it be external force, belief, or mere idea, places itself above the individual and his caprice, Stirner rejects as a hateful limitation of himself. What a pity that to this book — the extremest that we know anywhere — a second positive part was not added. It would have been easier than in the case of Schelling's philosophy; for out of the unlimited Ego I can again beget every kind of Idealism as my will and my idea. Stirner lays so much stress upon the will, in fact, that it appears as the root force of human nature. It may remind us of Schopenhauer. Thus are there two sides to everything!
— Second Book, chapter II
Note the tie to Schopenhauer, Nietzsche's favorite philosopher. Nietzsche looked up Schopenhauer's name in Lange's index and thereby found this passage on Stirner. Lestrade 19:47, 27 April 2007 (UTC)Lestrade
Perhaps Nietzsche does provide something in the way of (simple-minded) descriptions of the fucked up nature of the world (ie: the irrational basis of politics). I doubt that the Nietzschean way is the easiest way, or the best way. But still, that assumes that there is a Nietzschean way (I believe that many have asserted that Nietzsche does not propose any system of human existence, merely that all systems of human existence seem to have certain properties – certainly such an observation seems true for 'the will to power', which does seem to be overly popular due to its simple minded explanations for the whole of human existence).
Anyhow, the article misses coherent criticism of Nietzsche's philosophy. Also, was Nietzsche any good at Mathematics? I doubt it, anyone as messed up in the head as he appears to have been could not be good at mathematics!
Is Nietzschean philosophy compatible with the notion of absolute and objective truth (which DOES exist – as has probably been well demonstrated within physics, for example)? Of course not! Nietzsche doesn't believe it the absolute truth! So why does anyone even read him, let alone write about him? Nietzsche's only contribution to the world is to try to justify why it is so f***ed up by making it more f***ed up with his non-existent philosophical system.
Anyhow, someone fetch me his Maths results from the University of Basel – I bet a wager that he wasn't that good at it.
Nukemason4 22:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
some laughable Modernist insecurity. that objective truth "DOES exist" argument was pretty darn convincing. Even so, you should probably trying reading what you criticize or maybe just stick to math.
As Nietzsche doesn't believe in the absolute/supreme truth of reality – that makes him a shit mathematical philosopher (not that he has ever been espoused as one).
Any comments on this?
Nukemason4 22:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
What would Nietzsche have said about nuclear weapons? Is any of his philosophy applicable to nuclear military encounters? I know that Clausewitz's philosophical ideas can be applied to nuclear doctrine, but have never heard of this being done for Nietzsche.
Nukemason4 22:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Focuse on Nietzsche's interpretation of "atoms". John jarrell 21:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that some nihilist changed the image at the top of the entry to a disturbing doctored version of the same photograph in which Fritz has a third eye in the middle of his forehead. It went unnoticed for some time. Be on the lookout.-- 76.188.161.254 04:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me how Nietzsche can be both Wagnerite and Anti-Wagnerite? 80.114.26.224 10:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
"The good fortune of my existence, its uniqueness perhaps, lies in its fatality: expressing it in the form of a riddle, as my own father I am already dead, as my own mother I still live and grow old. This double origin, as it were from the highest and lowest rung of the ladder of life, at once décadent and beginning—this, if anything, explains that neutrality, that freedom from party in relation to the total problem of life, which perhaps distinguishes me. I have a subtler sense [Witterung: i.e., scent, as in a hunt] for the signs of ascent and descent than any man has ever had, I am the teacher par excellence for this—I know both, I am both.—" (Why I Am So Wise, ( here)"
And also, §2 of same chapter:
"Setting aside the fact that I am a décadent, I am also its antithesis. My proof for this is, among other things, that I always instinctively chose the right means against wretched states: while the décadent as such always chooses means that are disadvantageous for him. As summa summarum [overall] I was healthy, as niche, as specialty I was a décadent."
As he has analyzed the "Case of Wagner" as a symptom of decadence, there is a relationship between all of this. Lapaz 13:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I have started a discussion regarding the Infobox Philosopher template page concerning the "influences" and "influenced" fields. I am in favor of doing away with them. Please join the discussion there. RJC Talk 14:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I am surprised there was no reference to LMS in this article...i added a bit at the end, but I know it will get deleted... :( Interpolarity 18:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Could somebody please check the new article Max Oehler for grammar and spelling errors (and style etc.)? I translated it from the German article I wrote. It might be quite interesting for the Nietzsche reception; I could also try to add more information by request. Please also have a look at the German article about the de:Nietzsche-Archiv, which right now runs for "featured article".-- Chef aka Pangloss 16:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | → | Archive 15 |
I was researching for a paper on Nietzsche (and the Greeks) and came across Corssen's name. Wikipedia'd him and added a short section to the end of the article... if anybody here is interested in adding, removing, or editing my addition, please do so. Just figured this would be a good place to make this known. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Paul_Corssen#Influence_on_Friedrich_Nietzsche Thanks, -DWRZ 04:31, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I uploaded three photographs I took at the Nietzsche Archiv in Weimar, Germany on 2006.VII.16 to the Wikipedia Commons . I'm definitely not a good photographer, but feel free to use them if they contribute to the article. I selected the license kind of randomly, let me know if it's not really Wikipedia-ish and I'll change it. :) -DWRZ 04:03, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
There has already been a lengthy debate on anti-Semitism and N., but no mention of sexism. I don’t believe either is related to his philosophy, but of the two, his sexism seems the most glaringly obvious. So obvious, indeed, that I won’t trouble with sources. Surely the mention of one merits the other. ~ nude grey ~ 10/2
it's great to see wikipedia as the stronghold of mediocrity...--james3443
my question is that surely i must be able to put in somewhere a small quote or what ever you like to call it to explain how powerful this influence has been ... as well as living on the street in my youth and fighting for freedom of expression all my life ... i have also studied - modern political thought and contemorary political philosophy with academics at phd level at goldsmiths college university of greenwich and the open university ... these globally respected professors at these colleges became my friends as well as mentors and supervisors and if you want their names to validate my credentials you can have them ... there are many other ways that i am working alongside many others to fight for freedom of expression in this world ...
this is the forum to link our knowlege together ... ther is no such thing as objectivity in this style of writing all has a subjective dimension ... i am trying to bring the knowledge through translation and the aesthetics of music and performance to a wider audience ... i hope you can help me with this who ever you are ... the cardinal ...
thankyou Gothean for responding ... how do we say what or who is important ... a man standing in front of a tank in china ... a suicide bomber ... a man who died on a cross ... the point as marx argued is to change the world not just talk about it ... 25 years ago when 'false gestures for a devious public' and 'megomania' were released i had many death threats ... i have spent the last quater of a century learning or attempting to be objective or 'neutral' ... it might be argued that the swiss were neutral in the second world war ... it might be argued that being neutral could have seen the nazi's obliterate the jewish race ... it may be argued that being neutral is about keeping yourself safe ... so no i guess i would not argue that im being neutral ... are you
... are you staying safe ... thats ok ... but some people feel that is not the way to contribute to humanity ... i am not making a judgment here ... or do you think i ab being subjective again ... in my criticism of your stand point ... walter benjamin took a premptive strike on his life ... it turns out he did not need to ... was it important or not ... what i would say is important is we care ... and we do all that is within our power ... or within our understanding or our ability ... to show how much we care ... by taking some kind of action ... i have placed my self in a place to do this ...
i am also a youth worker who has recently taken 40 young people over to belfast from england ... we went to a school where catholic and protestant dance sing and create together ... they were so pleased to see us because they still feel isolated from the world ... their schools are still segregated ... i just organized a trip for young arab and jewish children ... who have been going to school together at a school called 'hand in hand' ... since 1997 ... to come to england at christmas 2006 ... they accepted the offer ... i raised the funding and still have it ... then i had an email from them saying they were stuck in a bunker ... because of the recent acceleration in troubles ... but would i please not forget about them ...
i have reformed 'the blood' and am going to challenge and put my self in harms way to challenge ... anywhere where people are abused ... nietzsche said he would be angry if a student of his did not learn more than he had learned ...i think i can achieve more than talk ... or die trying ... i do not consider importan ... but just an idea that feels right to me as an individual ... an individual because of a wrier like nietzsche ... strangley enough this idea feels like the most objective neutral feeling i have and yet - paradoxically - it is obviously overflowing with intent ... yes i do think i have something to add to the wikipedia page on nietzsche ... you can take your stand point even though adorno argues dialectically that there is no such thing ... but most - importantly - remember some one asked for help and you thought you knew better ... cheers the cardinal
yes unlike nietzsche i do have a vanity problem: do your research: the cardinal
read my response to Gothean about what is important or notable: the cardinal
ty: the cardinal
i still think the point is being missed here ... all writers performers etc etc ... have arrogance ... vanity if you will ... it is this character-spirit that drives them ... that encourages them to question their own ethics and the ethics of others ... alongside the incrediblie technological communications age we dwell in now ... there are many people who have also changed and those changes are important to record and explore ... all i am trying to do is explore ... and leave an ethnographic statement of that exploration ... i do not compare myself to anyone else ... i am both a zombie and unique at the same time ... all i am trying to do is identify what has happened tom me ... because of others ... because of my self ... how i have coped with this/that journey ... how i feel about the journey i am at this moment in now ... i feel a responsibility to do this ... wikipedia is a wondrous idea ... i am just challenging its flexibility to adapt ... to remain multi dimensional ... to be perpetually chameleonic ... whilst remaining authentic to the discourse and reflexivity of humanity and thereto the history of humankind as it unfolds ... cheers the cardinal
Nietzsche said this at the beginning of ecce homo ... i can not remember it verbatum ... and i do not have the book to hand ... the cardinal
This guy, the cardinal (what a name), makes me laugh. Nietzsche would have spat on you. Nietzsche hated followers. If you have read him, you should know this. And have you considered the way you talk? It's like the whole universe revolves around you. If this is an adaptation of Nietzsche's style of writing, you've failed at it, cardinal. Nietzsche never made himself a martyr in his any of his writings. He said himself in The Twilight of the Idols that people mistakenly estimate the value of martyrs, their beliefs or their cause because of the blood they shed. Just look at the way you talk, how you mention all your great deeds and selflessness, it's exactly what Nietzsche hates in a human being. So, it's just appropriate that whatever you added on Nietzsche's article be deleted. If you want to be important, strive hard to establish your name on whatever field you think you are interested in. And then someday, perhaps when you've already gone nuts like Nietzsche, perhaps you'll be famous, and then we can consider adding a whole paragraph about yourself on Nietzsche's page. Moonwalkerwiz 06:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
The Cardinal is in NO WAY a follower and if Nietzche would spit on anyone "Moonwalkerwiz" would be one of them. There is hypocrisy laced throughout your above message and missguided hatred. Your lack of insight on seeing or even trying to see, for that matter, the meaning of taking on a name like "The Cardinal" makes me deem you imaginatively weak. Infact you are a follower by trying to be so complacent with the cowardliness and stale thinking that has permeated this discussion (if that was not obvious).
"Egoism is the very essence of a noble soul." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The Cardinal (AKA Bill Sykes) has briefly mentioned some of his aide to humanity, and has done so in a way that Nietzche would consider acceptable. 1-demensional thinking is the way of the 19th century, it's time to see things how Nietzche would have, what he hated most where opinions that safely placed ones self behind an Ideal. Opinions like the ones here, self-serving, fruitless (besides to condemn), and demeaning to constructive thinking.
"In heaven, all the interesting people are missing." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I try to respect the principals behind Wikipedia as best I can, but perhaps occasionally you could think outsides these rigid guidlines? Nietzche simply wanted less talk and more thought. 65.74.121.106 02:01, 6 May 2007 (UTC) George W.
Lastly: "There are no facts, only interpretations." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Schopenhauer described the loss of selfishness as the way to lead a moral and good life. According to him, egoism and selfishness are the prime causes of much pain and suffering in the world. The best people, for him, are those who deny themselves, like saints. Nietzsche reacted to this in a polar opposite, 180° manner. Nietzsche wanted a celebration and aggrandizement of the self. He considered selflessness to be a sickness. The highest types of humanity, according to Nietzsche, should exercise their will to power and affirm themselves. This doctrine of Nietzsche has never failed to attract people who feel themselves to be above most other humans. It has encouraged their self-absorption and justified their lack of compassion or concern for people other than themselves. In 1924, the Leopold and Loeb crime brought general disapproval of Nietzsche because he was one of the criminals' favorite authors and his teachings were thought to have contributed to the murder. In Germany,the National Socialists agreed with Nietzsche's praise of egoism and had no reservations about killing their opponents. The ethics of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche are directly opposite each other. Nietzsche's extreme affirmation of the self developed as a direct protest against Schopenhauer's extreme denial of the self. Lestrade 17:45, 11 October 2006 (UTC)L
I agree with you but the point should be made that the reason for this is because N's is an open philosophy. That is, after all, why we are all here!
And if we're going to mention egoism gone wrong, shouldn't we also mention it as a peculiarity that accompanies great artistic deeds?
Also, isn't the doctrine of Self Overcoming rather like certain Buddist doctrines, rather similar to S after all - though be it - perverted? I don’t interpret quite the polarity that you do. Nevertheless, it would be rather ironic, as S was a notorious glutton and N a stoic in life. Just some self-important thoughts. ~nude grey~
you could argue that nietzsche was a 'glutton' for punishment and that through that struggle you become a glutton for life ... whence a glutton for life thereto you strive to make that which you are a glutton for incredible ... so incredible that you encourage others to strive toward it ... in is the reflection o humanity that you see in your own soul ...
gosh, despite your syntax ... I think I understand what you are getting at ... perhaps the virtue of struggle itself? but this isn’t the forum for such highly enjoyable debates. I’m more curious about the stated polarity between S and N and if this is ultimately true. My concern is that as the poster might be presenting a biased view that cleverly slanders N. I too think it’s interesting that so many bad guys invoke N’s philosophy as an excuse to commit dubious deeds ... and conversely people dismiss his thoughts because of this. And yet the same is never charged of Machiavelli or Plato. Perhaps it has something to do with N’s very paradoxical rhetoric. And then the page is looking pretty good too.
~nude grey~
ha, ha ... yes i prefer my information come from the texts rather than shadowy pedants disguising value judgments in over-simplified scholarship. you fail to grasp the nuance involved. the Ubermensch is exactly that: the Over-man: the Self-overcame ... the denier and creator of the new will. there is a transcendental similarity here to S. ~nude grey~
I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 17:44, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
It is good that this article has been delisted, and I hope someone with expertise can correct it, or at least add the appropriate contrary arguments. Its total exoneration of Nietzsche's influence on the development of Nazism is absurd. Indeed, he died decades before the Nazis rose to prominence, and could not have forseen the consequences of his ideas. No one knows what his view of the Nazis might have been, and he may in fact have disapproved of them. However, to expunge from his record the clear, unavoidable fact that his ideas were primary in their influence on the eventual ideology of the Nazis is to engage in outright dishonesty. It is dishonesty of an extremely dangerous sort, because someone approaching Nietzsche without the benfit of hindsight might be more inclined than they should be to embrace his ideas uncritically.
Specifically, Nietzsche's primary argument—the rejection of morality in favor of "evolutionary advancement" through any means, leading to his concept of the "Űber-Mensch"—cannot be seen as anything other than the genesis, and the absolute underpinning, of the Nazis' "Master Race". While there are many other examples of his influence, to whitewash this primary aspect out of his record is particularly unthinkable.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.45 ( talk • contribs)
I still think the "influence and reception" section is deeply flawed. There should be a separate section devoted specifically to the relationship between Nietzsche and Nazism, and the controversies involved. 67.142.130.31 22:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree, the connection between Nietzsche and Nazism should not be overlooked. Even writers who admired Nietzsche, such as Camus, acknowledged that Nietzsche could be interpreted in a Nazist light. Note that I am also an admirer of Nietzsche's work, and I'm aware that the man would hardly support the Nazist regime — he had nothing but contempt for Bismarck's militarists attitudes, and called any army who had as an end war a product of madness —, yet that doesn't mean there aren't ways to find in his thought proto-Nazist claims (in particular with regards to eugeny). Daniel Nagase 01:31, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
as long as we're holding Nietzsche responsible for the misinterpretation and manipulation of his work, why don’t we hold Jesus responsible for the Inquisition, and the kkk. In fact I think the later makes much more sense. This connection of Nietzsche to Nazism and in some cases nihilism is juvenile and the clearest mark of someone who has not bothered to read Nietzsche's work before condemning his own distortion of it. But for those of you who can't take the time to see how utterly contradictory these connections are (its as simple as reading what he has to say on anti-semitism and nationalism), I'd recommend at least looking at TSZ's "of the bestowing virtue." "of the three evil things" and "of the new idol" to give yourself the slightest grasp of Nietzsche's true understanding of political power.
this article does -- Chris 18:59, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
In the section on Nietzsche's move to Basel it is stated that "During his philological work in Basel he discovered that the ancient poetic meter related only to the length of syllables, different from the modern, accentuating meter."
This is something that every schoolboy from the Dark Ages (to mark the exact time when accentual meter began to be used in the Romance languages) knew; in Constantinople ditto. It's no discovery at all.
The inserter of this statement must be referring to something and perhaps got it garbled. What could this statement be trying to refer to in reality?
Ottocs 09:33, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
This was known ages before Nietzsche, and it was common sense by then. Wilamowitz was already writing treatises on greek metre, and so was Richard Porson. Don't talk about what you evidently have absolutely no clue of, please. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
201.19.143.44 (
talk •
contribs)
Why are there no critics of Nietzsche listed? ken 21:47, 11 November 2006 (UTC)kdbuffalo
Why not start a "Criticisms" section of the article or the Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche article? -- Harpakhrad11 19:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I spammed the entire article with links to polemic. I don't know if I should have, if you want, be bold and revert everything but the first link. -Slash- 05:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Also, the article needs a clear link to the philosophy article. -Slash- 03:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
By the second half of the 20th century he had become regarded as a highly significant and influential figure in modern philosophy. Last sentence of the intro paragraph, understatement of the 20th century? How about him founding and introducing the very concepts that we consider modern philosophy. He was years ahead of his time and advanced philosophy further than anyone had or has.
I would love to know specifically, and in a bit of detail, how those rock "musicians" and entertainers were influenced by Nietzsche. Could it be that they make the claim in order to seem more interesting? I would bet that most of them are illiterate (or dyslexic, as is the fashion), and have never understood even one of Nietzsche's sentences. Lestrade 23:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
Oh, so all Swedes are geniuses who are fully read up on Nietzsche? Uh huh, yeah, sure.
I added a template for an organized debate on Nietzsche. One of the goals of this debate is to improve the contents of an article. This talk page is overcrowded with templates at the moment. Perhaps some of the templates can be merged or removed.-- Daanschr 16:09, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
I have read most of Nietzsche's Why I am so Wise and, although I have left the book at home and am now at the University of Guelph, I believe that Nietzsche claimed to be Polish in the book. I recall him claiming to be purely Polish and not in the least German. Nietzsche went on to insult German diet and claimed it was a cause of their rigid disposition (these are not his words, but they are of a similar affect).
I hate to make these claims without the book on hand to site, but if anyone does have a copy of the work in question, it would be an interesting addition to the page to note that Nietzsche claimed to be Polish, perhaps an early sign of psychological illness.
JackdeGaul 08:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)JackdeGaul
it's just a family legend. nothing to see with "an early sign of psychological illness..."
According to a passage in the book "The Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche" by H.L. Mencken, in the book's first section, "Nietzsche the Man", under the first chapter "Boyhood and Youth", in the fifth paragraph, Mencken writes:
The clan came out of Poland, like so many other families of Eastern Germany, at the time of the sad, vain wars. Legend maintains that it was noble in its day and Nietzsche himself liked to think so. The name, says Elisabeth, was originally Nietzschy. "Germany is a great nation," Nietzsche would say, "only because its people have so much Polish blood in their veins.... I am proud of my Polish descent. I remember that in former times a Polish noble, by his simple veto, could overturn the resolution of a popular assembly. There were giants in Poland in the time of my forefathers."
source: Mencken, Henry L., The Philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche, California: The Noontide Press, 1982
Nietzsche declared that he was a Pole and I am strongly convinced that a serious discussion should be initiated whether he should be considered a "purely German philosopher". -- 213.158.197.84 22:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)----
Please note Talk:Radwan coat of arms and have a look at the article now and then. User:Interrex has already started an edit war in the German wikipedia about this.-- Chef aka Pangloss 11:40, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Could someone add something about his musical work please? XdiabolicalX 22:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
True. I am not sure if he was a composer or what, but there should be some mention. Maybe by adding "and composer/musician/whatever" next to "Prussian-born philosopher"?
you can find more info on this at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche_Music_Project supposedly he felt that his composition "Hymn to life" should be listened to in order to properly interpret his work. but I haven't heard it and feel like ive done a good job grasping his ideas..
The picture I have uploaded is of the quality and time in which Nietzsche is today most often depicted, and also more representative of the Fröhliche Wissenschaft-Zarathustra-Jenseits period, which as an epoch arguably in turn is more representative of Nietzsche than those of earlier works such as Geburt der Tragödie, from which the older image is taken. Therefore, it should in my opinion be favoured over the old one. Staretsen 18:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Someone please enlighten me as to why Nietzsche's birthday needs to be in the opening sentence when it is there, again, below his portrait; and why his IPA (what I assume is a phonetic pronounciation) is there, too. I feel it would add to the general readability and elegance of this page to move the IPA as well as omitting the birth/death dates. I would like to hear others' opinions on this. - Bordello 04:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
As for now, I will be bold! and remove it myself and see what happens. - Bordello 04:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I think the "key concepts" section of the article is very poor and its contents do not correspond to the heading. I would hope someone could make a clear, very short summary of Nietzsche's main contributions to philosophy. This is exactly what I was looking for when I came to this article and could not find it.
Thank you.
Steveq34 17:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree that it is difficult to determine Nietzsche's key concepts since he uses perspectivism and his style of writing is heavy on metaphors. However, I think Steveq34 has a point here. We should at least mention Nietzsche's more common philosphical coinage in the Key Concepts section, like eternal recurrence, master and slave morality, the will to power, resentment, etcetera. Moonwalkerwiz 00:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone know if modern classicists take seriously the concepts of the Apollonian or Dionysiac? 152.23.84.168 02:48, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps this has been settled already, but is there a consensus about Nietzsche's family supposedly being of Polish descent? I've seen this discussed elsewhere, including the German and Polish Wiki articles on Nietzsche, although I don't understand enough Polish to know what the latter says.
Today's chuckle: As a student back in the '60s, I remember seeing the grafito, "Nietzsche is pietzsche" — based alas on mispronounciation of the name. Sca 18:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
The several discussions you have mentioned (I get tired of posting the links: here, here, here and here) show there is a general consensus that his ancestry is, at least from the 17th century, not Polish. And once more, I refer to Hans von Müllers text "Nietzsches Vorfahren" published by Richard Frank Krummel and Evelyn Krummel in Nietzsche-Studien No. 31 (2002).-- Chef aka Pangloss 20:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Note 15 leads to a dead url.
hi all, i added a section detailing the SUP's new versions of nietzsche's works to the nietzsche article, primarily because the current english translations of nietzsche's work (kaufmann etc) are fairly poor and i thought it would be useful to drum up some more support. it seems their well has dried up and there hasn't been a book released in the series in several years, although i spoke with them in an email and they said another volume is due later this year.
i did the same in the carl jung article about the philemon foundation, hoping perhaps some richer people than i might find out and donate to it so i can read some more of his work without having to wait perhaps thirty years before it gets published :)
the text of the section was as follows:
Stanford University Press
- Stanford University Press has started the process of preparing a new edition of the collected works of Nietzsche in English, although the last new title in the series appeared in 1999. Three works have emerged so far: - - * Unfashionable Observations (1995) - * Human, All Too Human (I) (1997) - * Unpublished Writings from the period of Unfashionable Observations (1999) - - See http://www.sup.org/browse.cgi?x=series&y=The%20Complete%20Works%20of%20Friedrich%20Nietzsche for more details.
anyway, considering that both of these sections represent major (20+ year) projects devoted to the new translations to replace the old ones for scholars and students, should we still mention them on wikipedia or not?
note: the change is here, deleted by Madhava http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Friedrich_Nietzsche&diff=prev&oldid=109277201
best regards, dave —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.247.227.213 ( talk) 21:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
See also Archive 6 and Archive 4 for others debates concerning Stirner.
I have just removed Stirner from Nietzshce's influences (and Nietzsche from who Stirner influenced) because i thought that an earlier discussion agreed that the evidence on the matter is too inconclusive. However i realise that it had been left up for a while, and was wondering whether any attitudes had changed?I still think that the dispute over whether he read the book, was influenced etc. deserves a mention and was wondering what others thought. But i don't think he should be on the influences list. Itafroma 14:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
"Several authors have pointed out other occurrences of this hypothesis in contemporary thought. Thus, the anthroposophist Rudolf Steiner, who revised the first catalogue of Nietzsche's personal library in January 1896, pointed out that Nietzsche would have read something similar in Eugen Dühring's Courses on philosophy (1875), which Nietzsche readily criticized. Lou Andreas-Salomé pointed out that Nietzsche referred to Ancient cyclical conceptions of time, in particular by the Pythagoreans, in the Inactual Considerations. Henri Lichtenberger and Charles Andler have pinpointed three works contemporary to Nietzsche which carried on the same hypothesis: J.G. Vogt, Die Kraft. Eine real-monistische Weltanschauung (1878), Auguste Blanqui, L'éternité par les astres (1872) and Gustave Le Bon, L'homme et les sociétés (1881). However, Gustave Le Bon is not quoted anywhere in Nietzsche's manuscripts; and Auguste Blanqui was named only in 1883. But Vogt's work, on the other hand, was read by Nietzsche precisely during this summer of 1881 in Sils-Maria <ref> See Posthumous fragment, 11 [312] 1881; See also Mazzino Montinari, Friedrich Nietzsche, 1974 (German transl. De Gruyter, 1991, French translation PUF, 2001) and also Nietzsche's personal library (see also [3] and revision of previous catalogues on the École Normale Supérieure's website) </ref>
Nietzsche knew about Stirner from reading one of his favorite books, Lange's History of Materialism. In that book, Lange wrote the following short passage:
Stirner went so far in his notorious work, 'Der Einzige und Sein Eigenthum' (1845), as to reject all moral ideas. Everything that in any way, whether it be external force, belief, or mere idea, places itself above the individual and his caprice, Stirner rejects as a hateful limitation of himself. What a pity that to this book — the extremest that we know anywhere — a second positive part was not added. It would have been easier than in the case of Schelling's philosophy; for out of the unlimited Ego I can again beget every kind of Idealism as my will and my idea. Stirner lays so much stress upon the will, in fact, that it appears as the root force of human nature. It may remind us of Schopenhauer. Thus are there two sides to everything!
— Second Book, chapter II
Note the tie to Schopenhauer, Nietzsche's favorite philosopher. Nietzsche looked up Schopenhauer's name in Lange's index and thereby found this passage on Stirner. Lestrade 19:47, 27 April 2007 (UTC)Lestrade
Perhaps Nietzsche does provide something in the way of (simple-minded) descriptions of the fucked up nature of the world (ie: the irrational basis of politics). I doubt that the Nietzschean way is the easiest way, or the best way. But still, that assumes that there is a Nietzschean way (I believe that many have asserted that Nietzsche does not propose any system of human existence, merely that all systems of human existence seem to have certain properties – certainly such an observation seems true for 'the will to power', which does seem to be overly popular due to its simple minded explanations for the whole of human existence).
Anyhow, the article misses coherent criticism of Nietzsche's philosophy. Also, was Nietzsche any good at Mathematics? I doubt it, anyone as messed up in the head as he appears to have been could not be good at mathematics!
Is Nietzschean philosophy compatible with the notion of absolute and objective truth (which DOES exist – as has probably been well demonstrated within physics, for example)? Of course not! Nietzsche doesn't believe it the absolute truth! So why does anyone even read him, let alone write about him? Nietzsche's only contribution to the world is to try to justify why it is so f***ed up by making it more f***ed up with his non-existent philosophical system.
Anyhow, someone fetch me his Maths results from the University of Basel – I bet a wager that he wasn't that good at it.
Nukemason4 22:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
some laughable Modernist insecurity. that objective truth "DOES exist" argument was pretty darn convincing. Even so, you should probably trying reading what you criticize or maybe just stick to math.
As Nietzsche doesn't believe in the absolute/supreme truth of reality – that makes him a shit mathematical philosopher (not that he has ever been espoused as one).
Any comments on this?
Nukemason4 22:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
What would Nietzsche have said about nuclear weapons? Is any of his philosophy applicable to nuclear military encounters? I know that Clausewitz's philosophical ideas can be applied to nuclear doctrine, but have never heard of this being done for Nietzsche.
Nukemason4 22:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Focuse on Nietzsche's interpretation of "atoms". John jarrell 21:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that some nihilist changed the image at the top of the entry to a disturbing doctored version of the same photograph in which Fritz has a third eye in the middle of his forehead. It went unnoticed for some time. Be on the lookout.-- 76.188.161.254 04:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Can someone explain to me how Nietzsche can be both Wagnerite and Anti-Wagnerite? 80.114.26.224 10:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
"The good fortune of my existence, its uniqueness perhaps, lies in its fatality: expressing it in the form of a riddle, as my own father I am already dead, as my own mother I still live and grow old. This double origin, as it were from the highest and lowest rung of the ladder of life, at once décadent and beginning—this, if anything, explains that neutrality, that freedom from party in relation to the total problem of life, which perhaps distinguishes me. I have a subtler sense [Witterung: i.e., scent, as in a hunt] for the signs of ascent and descent than any man has ever had, I am the teacher par excellence for this—I know both, I am both.—" (Why I Am So Wise, ( here)"
And also, §2 of same chapter:
"Setting aside the fact that I am a décadent, I am also its antithesis. My proof for this is, among other things, that I always instinctively chose the right means against wretched states: while the décadent as such always chooses means that are disadvantageous for him. As summa summarum [overall] I was healthy, as niche, as specialty I was a décadent."
As he has analyzed the "Case of Wagner" as a symptom of decadence, there is a relationship between all of this. Lapaz 13:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
I have started a discussion regarding the Infobox Philosopher template page concerning the "influences" and "influenced" fields. I am in favor of doing away with them. Please join the discussion there. RJC Talk 14:09, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I am surprised there was no reference to LMS in this article...i added a bit at the end, but I know it will get deleted... :( Interpolarity 18:22, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Could somebody please check the new article Max Oehler for grammar and spelling errors (and style etc.)? I translated it from the German article I wrote. It might be quite interesting for the Nietzsche reception; I could also try to add more information by request. Please also have a look at the German article about the de:Nietzsche-Archiv, which right now runs for "featured article".-- Chef aka Pangloss 16:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)