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This section is messed up. Can someone fix it. It states "The hard bread is softened by dipping in a mixture of milk and eggs, and then fried." and then "The bread is sliced on a bias and dipped into a mixture of egg, milk, sugar, cinnamon and vanilla. The slices are pan-fried in butter...". This is very poor editing on someone's part. 207.131.251.16 ( talk) 23:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC) Thomas
Under preparation and serving, dry bread and stale bread are made appear to be synonymous terms, which they are not. Which is better for french bread? I do not know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.183.249 ( talk) 04:22, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
Cornell University: Wikipedia Class Project
We are Cornell students all enrolled in a class called Online Communities. Here is a link to our class page. Education Program:Cornell University/Online Communities (Fall 2013)
For one of our class assignments we have to pick a C-Class article on Wikipedia and expand, edit, and elaborated it to create a better article. Lauren and I are both Communications majors and Royce is an Information Science major. We are relatively new to Wikipedia so please be patient with us and help guide us in the right direction if we are doing something wrong! 0 Fun fact, Jesus Christ ate this eggy bread/french toast/gypsy toast the day before he was crucified he ate this for breakfast. Jesus was so full he decided to just have bread and wine for his dinner commonly known as his last supper. This is why this is called soul food and is commonly eaten with kentucky fried chicken. It was called Jesus Crust for hundreds of years afterwards but eventually became Nun's bread in Monastery circles. Source: French toast in ancient Rome - http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaq1.html#frenchtoast #yoloswag sswweervve — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.245.41.193 ( talk) 12:43, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
We will be working on elaborating on all the sections with more specific details. We will also be working to incorporate more references into the articles as well as images. We are still collecting sources so as we get more we will make sure to post them so everyone can know where we are getting our information from.
Shannon: I will be working on elaborating on the preparation and variations of French Toast.
Lauren: I will be working on developing and elaborating more on the history of French Toast. For example: where it came from and how the name was developed.
Royce: I will be making sure that all the formatting is correct because I am familiar with coding and using the Wikipedia language. I will also be elaborating with the Pain perdu section as well as adding a recipe section — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShannonClare06 ( talk • contribs) 17:15, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Feedback from Niteshgoyalwiki ( talk)
Hi Professor! I was just catching up on your comments. I was busy studying and stressing over the LSATs so I did not have a ton of time to really digest everything. I wanted to see if some of the progress we made was okay. We have noted some more specific edits in the talk page and I am currently working on a rough draft of some of my parts in the sandbox. ShannonClare06 ( talk) 01:11, 8 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06
Hi, my name is Royce and I'm in the group that took French Toast as a school project. I'm new to Wikipedia, and I'm wondering why the French Toast page was cut down so much from this-> http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=French_toast&oldid=526280738, to what it is now. Could someone point me in the direction as to why? Thanks. Roycecab ( talk) 19:21, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello all from Cornell, just a quick note on how and what to add to an article. There is a Good article in a similar vein that you might want to take a look at, Gumbo. This article is considered to be one of the articles on a particular dish on Wikpedia.
So here is what I recommend to you:
I am going to be unavailable until Thursday as I have a paper due Wednesday, so I will only respond lightly. -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 05:58, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello Wikipedians!
We are looking to re-organize the format of the French Toast page, we want to place the following sections in this order: Etymology, History, Nutrition, Preparation/Serving, Variations, and Social Aspects. To begin, we would like to add the basic nutritional facts set by the USDA. Another part of our class project was to nominate the page to Did You Know, which has been submitted as of October 1st, 2013. We noticed there is only basic background information regarding the National French Toast Day, so we plan on expanding more on this topic. Under the history section, we are going to elaborate on the first known origins of French Toast, dating back to Roman Times. We're going to start with a Roman variation of the meal, since this is where it originated.
This is our starting point, and will add more throughout the week! Laurenjlloyd ( talk) 18:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
I am specifically working with the introduction and the history/etymology. I have found that there are not a ton of scholarly references regarding French toast. Any advice? Also, I was looking to the Wikipedia article Gumbo ( /info/en/?search=Gumbo) for some guidance as it was recommended as a good reference point. ShannonClare06 ( talk) 01:16, 8 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06
Hello Cornellians. I was wondering if you were aware of Wikipedia Commons? It is a repository of photographs that can be used in Wikipedia articles. If you do a web search for that website and search there for French toast you will see several photos relatede to this subject. Do you think any of them are useful or worth including? Candleabracadabra ( talk) 02:25, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
Best of luck with you project. I will be watching and will try to respond where appropriate. Please let me know if I can be of any help. Candleabracadabra ( talk) 02:32, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi Cornell folks working on this article. I see that you have been editing the article. Please make sure to be logged in when you are making edits so the teaching staff evaluating your work can attribute the contributions to you and give you credit for them. LeshedInstructor ( talk) 13:51, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
We just would like to thank all the Wikipedia users for being helpful during the course of the project! Technically, the project ends today at 1:25pm. We learned a lot and it has been a wonderful experience being part of this online community.
Sincerely,
Shannon, Lauren and Royce
ShannonClare06 ( talk) 13:16, 10 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06
“ | In the words of Template:Unreliable sources, "unreliable citations may be challenged or DELETED". And I see no relevant discussion on the talk page; if I missed it, please point it out to me. | ” |
Why is this particular dish called "French Toast?" When was it named "French Toast?" I read the Gumbo article and that sort of information is included in the first paragraph. Selesindrin ( talk) 20:33, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Hold on, how could this be a historical French dish used to preserve stale bread when it requires the bread to be sliced before it stales (try slicing stale bread and see what happens)? Historical people didn't ever slice their bread and then leave it unused, right? At least, not often enough to have a dish based around recycling it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.204.139 ( talk) 02:43, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
15 century English recipes are mentioned. There is a 12th century troubadour known as Marcabru who is believed to be from Gascony and was at first nicknamed Pan-perdut. This is likely the Old Occitan (Old Provencal) cognate of pain perdu although the context may or may not have been the same. Halconen ( talk) 19:28, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Milk makes the eggs go further, helps them to soak into the bread with less beating, and a pre-soak in milk allows the bread to change its texture. I don't believe it's required: some recipes omit it. But I'd say it's more common than the other optional ingredients, like the various herbs and spices, cheese, syrups, etc. The log shows:
...and it's been that way ever since. I think this edit history doesn't support a consensus that milk is a required ingredient, but I think "often" was fine, maybe even "typically": "bread soaked in eggs, typically with milk". Typically has the advantage that it's a harder, more specific term, so less likely to be silently removed. I think I'd have a very hard time providing a good canonical reference saying milk's definitively not required, however, since proving a negative is troublesome. I can find many online recipes which exclude milk, but not from any chefs or cookbooks with a well-known reputation. There are certainly good references from reputed cooks giving recipes that include milk, but I also can't find any references that say all eggy-bread recipes worldwide must include milk, nor that a recipe without milk would not be considered "eggy bread" by anyone. So that's my rationale for editing to use "typically", and creating an "optional ingredients" section in the sidebar. But I know it's far from an ideal rationale, hence writing it here for discussion. DewiMorgan ( talk) 02:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Both references for the quote derive from the 1936 translation by Joseph Dimmers Vehling. A somewhat better copy of Vehling can be found on Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29728
Vehling's translation says: "Break [slice] fine white bread, crust removed, into rather large pieces which soak in milk [and beaten eggs] fry in oil, cover with honey and serve." - I have corrected the quote here to include these square braces, but done nothing further, as deletion would only be backed by OR.
The items in square braces are the translator's notes and additions to the text. Of this text, http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Apicius/home.html writes:
"The Hill edition, while adequate, is not as good as it could have been, however. It does not provide a Latin text, is said to be based on inferior manuscript tradition, and Vehling's translation is quirky and inconsistent. The best full English translation of Apicius seems to be that of Barbara Flower and Elisabeth Rosenbaum, published in 1958." - I have not got a copy of this translation, and can't find one online.
The Latin is also there, in what looks like a 1920 transcription collated from multiple sources ( https://www.gutenberg.org/files/16439/16439-h/16439-h.htm#bk7), and for this passage it says: "Aliter dulcia: siligineos rasos frangis, et buccellas maiores facies. in lacte infundis, frigis, ex [in] oleo, mel superfundis et inferes." Close as I can tell, with negligible Latin, this translates to "Another sweetmeat: wheat bread break, into bits more big. In milk immerse, cool, take from oil, honey on top the dish." Or more grammatically: break bread into big chunks, soak in cool milk, cook in oil, sprinkle with honey".
It bears the annotation "ex Vo, et in EV |" which I suspect is referring only to the word "[in]", and which I interpret from the intro notes to mean "from Vollmer, a copy in the Vatican, and a copy in Cheltenham", but the intro notes that explain the annotation key are in abbreviated Latin too, translated into a kind of ascii art table, so it's really hard to tell.
To me, this doesn't look like eggs are involved at all. That's just something Vehling made up. But maybe "in lacte infundis" implies egg in some way that only a classical Latin speaker would get?
So like I said, I haven't done anything beyond this, and don't think I can as it would be OR, but I'm decently convinced that Vehling's translation and claim are incorrect. DewiMorgan ( talk) 06:49, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
I can't find any specific source that says WHO first called it gypsy toast, or when, or why, but if you do a simple Google search for "gypsy toast" you will find many, many hits, including many recipes for it. Some of them appear to date back at least several years and all of them seem to be reputable enough. Unless we can definitely show that it was introduced into WP by a vandal and THEN outsiders started calling it by that name because of the WP source, I would be inclined to leave it in. And keep looking.... (Just looked at my magisterial M-W Unabridged of 1940 and *IT* has "french toast" but not "gypsy toast". Hayford Peirce ( talk) 20:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
References
This article offers no explanation as to why a dish that clearly wasn’t invented by the French is called “French toast”. From what I’ve read, there isn’t a definitive explanation, but the “most popular theory” is that it is named not after France, but some 18th-century American restauranteur called “Josef French”. People who read this article will want SOME explanation, and 1 or more of the strongest available should be provided—even if one has to qualify that no specific explanation has been solidly confined. It would be unfair to leave readers clueless when explanations—however inconclusive—exist. A topic called “Possible Derivations of the Name”—providing at least 1 theory, along with assessments of its/their reliability, would suffice. 24.112.172.98 ( talk) 08:06, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
I keep seeing references to French toast being called eggy bread…seriously why would anyone with more than 3 brain cells call it eggy bread, it’s called French toast. 101.119.92.239 ( talk) 08:42, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
French toast article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was the subject of an educational assignment in Fall 2013. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Cornell University/Online Communities (Fall 2013)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
This section is messed up. Can someone fix it. It states "The hard bread is softened by dipping in a mixture of milk and eggs, and then fried." and then "The bread is sliced on a bias and dipped into a mixture of egg, milk, sugar, cinnamon and vanilla. The slices are pan-fried in butter...". This is very poor editing on someone's part. 207.131.251.16 ( talk) 23:40, 12 November 2015 (UTC) Thomas
Under preparation and serving, dry bread and stale bread are made appear to be synonymous terms, which they are not. Which is better for french bread? I do not know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.183.249 ( talk) 04:22, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
Cornell University: Wikipedia Class Project
We are Cornell students all enrolled in a class called Online Communities. Here is a link to our class page. Education Program:Cornell University/Online Communities (Fall 2013)
For one of our class assignments we have to pick a C-Class article on Wikipedia and expand, edit, and elaborated it to create a better article. Lauren and I are both Communications majors and Royce is an Information Science major. We are relatively new to Wikipedia so please be patient with us and help guide us in the right direction if we are doing something wrong! 0 Fun fact, Jesus Christ ate this eggy bread/french toast/gypsy toast the day before he was crucified he ate this for breakfast. Jesus was so full he decided to just have bread and wine for his dinner commonly known as his last supper. This is why this is called soul food and is commonly eaten with kentucky fried chicken. It was called Jesus Crust for hundreds of years afterwards but eventually became Nun's bread in Monastery circles. Source: French toast in ancient Rome - http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaq1.html#frenchtoast #yoloswag sswweervve — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.245.41.193 ( talk) 12:43, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
We will be working on elaborating on all the sections with more specific details. We will also be working to incorporate more references into the articles as well as images. We are still collecting sources so as we get more we will make sure to post them so everyone can know where we are getting our information from.
Shannon: I will be working on elaborating on the preparation and variations of French Toast.
Lauren: I will be working on developing and elaborating more on the history of French Toast. For example: where it came from and how the name was developed.
Royce: I will be making sure that all the formatting is correct because I am familiar with coding and using the Wikipedia language. I will also be elaborating with the Pain perdu section as well as adding a recipe section — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShannonClare06 ( talk • contribs) 17:15, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Feedback from Niteshgoyalwiki ( talk)
Hi Professor! I was just catching up on your comments. I was busy studying and stressing over the LSATs so I did not have a ton of time to really digest everything. I wanted to see if some of the progress we made was okay. We have noted some more specific edits in the talk page and I am currently working on a rough draft of some of my parts in the sandbox. ShannonClare06 ( talk) 01:11, 8 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06
Hi, my name is Royce and I'm in the group that took French Toast as a school project. I'm new to Wikipedia, and I'm wondering why the French Toast page was cut down so much from this-> http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=French_toast&oldid=526280738, to what it is now. Could someone point me in the direction as to why? Thanks. Roycecab ( talk) 19:21, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
Hello all from Cornell, just a quick note on how and what to add to an article. There is a Good article in a similar vein that you might want to take a look at, Gumbo. This article is considered to be one of the articles on a particular dish on Wikpedia.
So here is what I recommend to you:
I am going to be unavailable until Thursday as I have a paper due Wednesday, so I will only respond lightly. -- Jeremy ( blah blah • I did it!) 05:58, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello Wikipedians!
We are looking to re-organize the format of the French Toast page, we want to place the following sections in this order: Etymology, History, Nutrition, Preparation/Serving, Variations, and Social Aspects. To begin, we would like to add the basic nutritional facts set by the USDA. Another part of our class project was to nominate the page to Did You Know, which has been submitted as of October 1st, 2013. We noticed there is only basic background information regarding the National French Toast Day, so we plan on expanding more on this topic. Under the history section, we are going to elaborate on the first known origins of French Toast, dating back to Roman Times. We're going to start with a Roman variation of the meal, since this is where it originated.
This is our starting point, and will add more throughout the week! Laurenjlloyd ( talk) 18:09, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
I am specifically working with the introduction and the history/etymology. I have found that there are not a ton of scholarly references regarding French toast. Any advice? Also, I was looking to the Wikipedia article Gumbo ( /info/en/?search=Gumbo) for some guidance as it was recommended as a good reference point. ShannonClare06 ( talk) 01:16, 8 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06
Hello Cornellians. I was wondering if you were aware of Wikipedia Commons? It is a repository of photographs that can be used in Wikipedia articles. If you do a web search for that website and search there for French toast you will see several photos relatede to this subject. Do you think any of them are useful or worth including? Candleabracadabra ( talk) 02:25, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
Best of luck with you project. I will be watching and will try to respond where appropriate. Please let me know if I can be of any help. Candleabracadabra ( talk) 02:32, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi Cornell folks working on this article. I see that you have been editing the article. Please make sure to be logged in when you are making edits so the teaching staff evaluating your work can attribute the contributions to you and give you credit for them. LeshedInstructor ( talk) 13:51, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
We just would like to thank all the Wikipedia users for being helpful during the course of the project! Technically, the project ends today at 1:25pm. We learned a lot and it has been a wonderful experience being part of this online community.
Sincerely,
Shannon, Lauren and Royce
ShannonClare06 ( talk) 13:16, 10 October 2013 (UTC)ShannonClare06
“ | In the words of Template:Unreliable sources, "unreliable citations may be challenged or DELETED". And I see no relevant discussion on the talk page; if I missed it, please point it out to me. | ” |
Why is this particular dish called "French Toast?" When was it named "French Toast?" I read the Gumbo article and that sort of information is included in the first paragraph. Selesindrin ( talk) 20:33, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Hold on, how could this be a historical French dish used to preserve stale bread when it requires the bread to be sliced before it stales (try slicing stale bread and see what happens)? Historical people didn't ever slice their bread and then leave it unused, right? At least, not often enough to have a dish based around recycling it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.204.139 ( talk) 02:43, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
15 century English recipes are mentioned. There is a 12th century troubadour known as Marcabru who is believed to be from Gascony and was at first nicknamed Pan-perdut. This is likely the Old Occitan (Old Provencal) cognate of pain perdu although the context may or may not have been the same. Halconen ( talk) 19:28, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Milk makes the eggs go further, helps them to soak into the bread with less beating, and a pre-soak in milk allows the bread to change its texture. I don't believe it's required: some recipes omit it. But I'd say it's more common than the other optional ingredients, like the various herbs and spices, cheese, syrups, etc. The log shows:
...and it's been that way ever since. I think this edit history doesn't support a consensus that milk is a required ingredient, but I think "often" was fine, maybe even "typically": "bread soaked in eggs, typically with milk". Typically has the advantage that it's a harder, more specific term, so less likely to be silently removed. I think I'd have a very hard time providing a good canonical reference saying milk's definitively not required, however, since proving a negative is troublesome. I can find many online recipes which exclude milk, but not from any chefs or cookbooks with a well-known reputation. There are certainly good references from reputed cooks giving recipes that include milk, but I also can't find any references that say all eggy-bread recipes worldwide must include milk, nor that a recipe without milk would not be considered "eggy bread" by anyone. So that's my rationale for editing to use "typically", and creating an "optional ingredients" section in the sidebar. But I know it's far from an ideal rationale, hence writing it here for discussion. DewiMorgan ( talk) 02:11, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Both references for the quote derive from the 1936 translation by Joseph Dimmers Vehling. A somewhat better copy of Vehling can be found on Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/29728
Vehling's translation says: "Break [slice] fine white bread, crust removed, into rather large pieces which soak in milk [and beaten eggs] fry in oil, cover with honey and serve." - I have corrected the quote here to include these square braces, but done nothing further, as deletion would only be backed by OR.
The items in square braces are the translator's notes and additions to the text. Of this text, http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Apicius/home.html writes:
"The Hill edition, while adequate, is not as good as it could have been, however. It does not provide a Latin text, is said to be based on inferior manuscript tradition, and Vehling's translation is quirky and inconsistent. The best full English translation of Apicius seems to be that of Barbara Flower and Elisabeth Rosenbaum, published in 1958." - I have not got a copy of this translation, and can't find one online.
The Latin is also there, in what looks like a 1920 transcription collated from multiple sources ( https://www.gutenberg.org/files/16439/16439-h/16439-h.htm#bk7), and for this passage it says: "Aliter dulcia: siligineos rasos frangis, et buccellas maiores facies. in lacte infundis, frigis, ex [in] oleo, mel superfundis et inferes." Close as I can tell, with negligible Latin, this translates to "Another sweetmeat: wheat bread break, into bits more big. In milk immerse, cool, take from oil, honey on top the dish." Or more grammatically: break bread into big chunks, soak in cool milk, cook in oil, sprinkle with honey".
It bears the annotation "ex Vo, et in EV |" which I suspect is referring only to the word "[in]", and which I interpret from the intro notes to mean "from Vollmer, a copy in the Vatican, and a copy in Cheltenham", but the intro notes that explain the annotation key are in abbreviated Latin too, translated into a kind of ascii art table, so it's really hard to tell.
To me, this doesn't look like eggs are involved at all. That's just something Vehling made up. But maybe "in lacte infundis" implies egg in some way that only a classical Latin speaker would get?
So like I said, I haven't done anything beyond this, and don't think I can as it would be OR, but I'm decently convinced that Vehling's translation and claim are incorrect. DewiMorgan ( talk) 06:49, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
I can't find any specific source that says WHO first called it gypsy toast, or when, or why, but if you do a simple Google search for "gypsy toast" you will find many, many hits, including many recipes for it. Some of them appear to date back at least several years and all of them seem to be reputable enough. Unless we can definitely show that it was introduced into WP by a vandal and THEN outsiders started calling it by that name because of the WP source, I would be inclined to leave it in. And keep looking.... (Just looked at my magisterial M-W Unabridged of 1940 and *IT* has "french toast" but not "gypsy toast". Hayford Peirce ( talk) 20:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)
References
This article offers no explanation as to why a dish that clearly wasn’t invented by the French is called “French toast”. From what I’ve read, there isn’t a definitive explanation, but the “most popular theory” is that it is named not after France, but some 18th-century American restauranteur called “Josef French”. People who read this article will want SOME explanation, and 1 or more of the strongest available should be provided—even if one has to qualify that no specific explanation has been solidly confined. It would be unfair to leave readers clueless when explanations—however inconclusive—exist. A topic called “Possible Derivations of the Name”—providing at least 1 theory, along with assessments of its/their reliability, would suffice. 24.112.172.98 ( talk) 08:06, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
I keep seeing references to French toast being called eggy bread…seriously why would anyone with more than 3 brain cells call it eggy bread, it’s called French toast. 101.119.92.239 ( talk) 08:42, 30 December 2023 (UTC)