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I removed a vandalising paragraph. looks as if some sicko has it in for this page. Reverted becouse of vandalism -- Heno 02:12, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I moved this page back in keeping with the naming conventions reached a long time ago. Rulers are known by their name, reginal number, and dominion, with epithets going in the beginning of the article. Danny
The image of Frederick II of Prussia bears more than an uncanny resemblence to the image in the article on Frederick William II of Prussia...
I change the English translation of the quote "Hier muss ein jeder nach seiner Facon selig werden." from "Here every one must find his happiness in his own way." to "Here every one must find his belief in his own way.", because this quote was said in a religious context and "selig" is usually referring to "belief" instead of "happiness". thefox
I have no opinion over the use of "Friedrick" or "Frederich". Is there a Wikipedia policy? In any case, a consistent usage should be applied. I think I saw (and corrected) four different usages and some obvious mispellings like "Friedrick" and "Freidrick". Hopefully I haven't made things work. For now, I've resolved the inconsistencies to "Frederick" which should make a global replace easier to perform.
And what about this "Frederick" variant that is the current title? This is a serious inconsistency that should be corrected. WpZurp 06:47, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Whuh? The name is spelled Frederick. That's the English equivalent of the German "Friedrich". "Friedrick" is not a name normally used in any language, as far as I am aware. In English, Frederick is normally known by the anglicized form of his name. john k 00:32, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm torn on this. There seems to be an agenda with the amount and the manner of the references to his preferences. On the other hand, it helps to create an understanding that the normal dry material lacks. I think some tweaking should be done to make sure that all the references are appropriate to understanding his nature in the context that they are presented. Bwood 14:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
This article is used to promote the usual homosexual agenda and purpose. This being to make homosexuality seem to be legitimate and widespread, thereby giving it an appearance of normalcy. Lestrade 13:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
I hope that normality is not represented by a hateful and psychologically histerical man like Lestrade. You should follow a treatment : you must have some psychological disease like paranoia. Anyway, normal, healthy and peaceful people are those who have normal relation with other people know that homosexual people are as """normal""" as heterosexual people. Homophoby is hate, it is one of the real abnormality in the world and, therefore, homophobic and intolerant people.
Our sympathies. Felix Kersten, Heinrich Himmler's masseur, amusingly records in his memoirs that when he told him that his hero Frederick was homosexual, he likewise became upset. Engleham 12:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
re: lestrade--It's fun to be piggish and bigoted, neh? I do agree, however, that the article is coming at the point too obliquely--it might note that certain (cited) sources have inferred or implied his homosexuality but then tell the story of his childhood etc. in less colored language. I've never read anything explicitly suggesting he was anything but uninterested in sexuality, but if those texts exist, I'd like to see them cited and have done with it.-- 74.100.116.23 19:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
By the way, the homosexuality of Frederick II was acknowledged by the PRINCE DE LIGNE, who had a discussion with him. This is a first hand observation, among others. It is interesting that Lestrade is not interested in truth but only in promoting the homophobic agenda, much more powerful and truth-hidding than a so-called and non-existing homosexual agenda.
Personal feelings about homosexuality aside, is there __hard__ evidence? The theory that he was estranged from his wife on the grounds of Austrian influence and his distaste of his father is far more compelling. Celebrating the great male friendships of Greece is not hard evidence since they weren't culturally associated with homo eroticism until our era. I can imagine having hallucinations and dramatic outbursts if my best friend was executed before my eyes. Or must we also associate drama queen behavior with homosexuality? Not everything is about sex... Nickjost ( talk) 01:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Remember that homosexuals are not only sexual beings.
The evidence will always, to a degree, be reliant on contemporary sources and accounts, and modern interpretation. Perhaps estrangement from his wife on the grounds of austrian influence is a compelling explanation for his behaviour - but likewise more evidence to draw this out would be helpful in supporting the case. There is a fair amount of anecdotal evidence to support the theory that Frederick was broadly attracted to his own sex (not least the correspondence and documentation by Voltaire); less so that he actually engaged in homosexual sexual activity. But I would dispute the fact that inclusion within the article of this material shows an over-interest in sex; I think instead it is looking at the issue of sexuality (a different issue) and is useful to shed light on Frederick the person - his characteristics, preferences and influences - in order to complement understanding of his political and military achievements. Contaldo80 ( talk) 09:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I believe many of the references to Frederick's intimate relationships discussed here (and since deleted) were put in the article by me. None of them presented Frederick as factually homosexual (that would be impossible to prove), but they did discuss people, pretty much all men, who had a deep and influential impact on Frederick's life. I used first-hand quotes, including from Voltaire, who lived with him for an extended period, and first-hand observations, such as by Frederick's sister. They were all sourced to a book published by Harvard College and written by an Emeritus Professor.
As to the "amount" of quotes, since he lived in a position and a time that made homosexuality criminal at best and deadly at worst, trying to sort out the conflicting information that's come down to us requires more information than just a tidy one line quote which might sum up an opposite-gender relationship to the satisfaction of most people. If I lived in a place where revelation of my relationship with a man would result in being ostracized and possibly imprisoned, I'd very likely claim to be asexual as well. If my father were an abusive bigot who beat me and killed my boyfriend, I might even genuinely become asexual out of psychological shock, but that wouldn't change my romantic interests. I'm not saying this is what happened with Frederick, as we can never know. I'm just saying that writing him off as naturally asexual is a tidy way to whitewash same-gender attraction out of history.
As to the "manner" of the quotes, I simply tried to integrate them into the article, in the same way that quotes about opposite-gender relationships and non-romantic relationships are often integrated into articles. I treated them as gender-neutral, including them in the same way I would have if Frederick had been female for instance.
It is frustrating that relationships between historical people of the same gender have to be cordoned off into a box of the subject's article with the first sentence usually saying something like "Some historians think so-and-so might have been bisexual or homosexual, but others believe he may have had a complete lack of interest in romantic relationships". Let's contrast that with the treatment given to opposite-gender relationships. President Eisenhower had a wife, but in the article covering him mention of her isn't limited to a special section labeled "Possible Heterosexuality" with an introductory sentence reading "Some historians think Eisenhower might have been bisexual or heterosexual, but others believe he may have had a complete lack of interest in romantic relationships". We have no proof that Eisenhower ever engaged in sex with his wife or had an interest in sex at all. No DNA tests were done to prove that her children were produced through sex with him. There are no first-hand accounts of him having sex with her or of him discussing sex with her. There is no _hard evidence_. Yet she is prominently displayed in the article as an assumedly romantic partner, and the belief that her children resulted in sex with him is taken for granted.
If there is a "homosexual agenda" to make homosexuality appear "legitimate and widespread", then it is far overshadowed in society by the agenda to make heterosexuality the primary assumption in all cases, to make it mandatory for all heroic figures, and to make anyone who can be "proven" to be homosexual appear creepy, silly, and/or irrelevant. To some extent, even liberal & progressive thinkers tend to buy into this by accepting assumptions of heterosexuality at face value and holding assumptions of homosexuality to a much higher standard of "evidence" and "proof", especially for figures treated as heroes. Markwiki ( talk) 06:25, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Before this turns into a fullscale edit war could we please take this to the discussion page? It seems to me we have a similar situation as with the Francis Bacon article. The evidence for Frederick being a homosexual are circumstantial at best, and it does not seem to be the academic consensus either. To use the LGBT category would in my opinion mean that the article takes a stance in this debate. -- Saddhiyama ( talk) 10:24, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I think you're right - and commend your attempt to address this issue in a measured way. I can't say that I'm strongly attached to retaining the LGBT category - the main benefit I think it brings is in alerting readers who are interested in the category that there are other articles that they might want to look at. In that sense it serves simply as a "categorisation" tool to facilitate navigation across wikipedia. I worry that some contributors think that the label is actually a "classification" tool - and that it describes things in absolute terms.
I fully appreciate that issues of sexuality are complex and often open to interpretation - because they relate to the "personal feelings" of an individual then they can be hard to pin down. In Frederick's case (as with Bacon) we can never be 100% sure, but then do we need to be? If we describe Frederick as a German Lutheran then does this mean that we have to be content that he agreed absolutely with every doctrine of the Lutheran church or behaved in every way as an exemplary Lutheran Christian? A simple reading of Fredericks' life shows that he was predeominantly oriented towards the same sex; and this was noted by contemporaries.
I don't mind having a discussion about how we add/ remove labels. But I object to being personally abused where I have been called a "niche gay history lobbyist". I don't get paid, and I don't have to lobby anyone to get my view across thanks. Contaldo80 ( talk) 11:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
While I agree that classifying Frederick II or Francis Bacon as LGBT is anachronistic, I'd also like to point out that requiring "conclusive evidence" to list people as homosexual/LGBT also implies that homosexuality just didn't exist for large swaths of history to someone viewing the category or list. What kind of "conclusive evidence" could there possibly be for an 18th century European king being attracted to men? A public pronouncement? A sex tape? A letter to a man saying, "I love you, and not in some literary or philosophical way but in a romantic and lustful way"? Anything that might count as "conclusive evidence" would have destroyed the subject's life and possibly got him written out of the historical record anyhow, or would have been destroyed by patriots, relatives, or lovers terrified of their own lives being tainted. It is clear that Frederick's most important & intimate relationships were with men, but our language doesn't have a word for that which doesn't also require an impossible "coming out" or an impossible proof of some sex act. Markwiki ( talk) 07:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
According to the article
...Prussia consisted of scattered territories... and the former Duchy of Prussia, outside of the Empire bordering the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. He was titled King in Prussia because this was only part of historic Prussia; he was to declare himself King of Prussia after acquiring most of the rest in 1772.
However, according to Frederick I of Prussia
Although he was the Margrave and Prince-elector of Brandenburg and the Duke of Prussia, Frederick desired the more prestigious title of king. However, according to Germanic law at that time, no kingdoms could exist within the Holy Roman Empire, with the exception of the Kingdom of Bohemia.
Leopold I, Archduke of Austria and Holy Roman Emperor, was convinced by Frederick to allow Prussia to be ruled as a kingdom... Frederick's argument was that Prussia had never belonged to the Holy Roman Empire and therefore there was no legal or political barrier to prevent the Elector of Brandenburg from being King in Prussia...
Frederick crowned himself "King Frederick I in Prussia" on 18 January 1701 in Königsberg. To indicate that Frederick's royalty was limited to Prussia and did not reduce the rights of the Emperor in Frederick's Imperial territories, he had to call himself "King in Prussia", instead of "King of Prussia"
Also, according to King in Prussia
The Prince-Elector of Brandenburg was a subject of the Holy Roman Emperor. In addition to his electorate which was part of the Holy Roman Empire, he also ruled the Duchy of Prussia which lay outside of the Empire, and where he was full sovereign since the Treaty of Labiau (1656) and the Treaty of Bromberg (1657). In 1701 Elector Frederick III wanted to show his greatness by adopting the title king. At the time there were only three royal titles within the Empire: "King of the Germans" (a title held by the Emperor), "King of Bohemia" (often held by the Emperor as well), and "King of the Romans" (held by the Emperor's heir).
...Emperor Leopold I allowed Frederick to crown himself "King in Prussia", not "King of Prussia"; Frederick was only an elector in his domains within the borders of the Empire, not a king.
...Even so, his move was controversial... The title "King of Prussia" implied lordship over the entire Prussian region, not simply the Duchy of Prussia, and the assumption of such a title by the Hohenzollern margraves would have threatened neighboring Poland; because the province of Royal Prussia was part of the Kingdom of Poland, the Kings of Poland titled themselves Kings of Prussia until 1742.
Thus, this article and the other articles state different reasons for the use of the odd title "King in Prussia". According to this article, the only reason is the absence of Royal Prussia from the Elector's dominions. According to the other two articles, the primary reason is the objection of the Holy Roman Emperor to another king within the empire (although the "King in Prussia" article mentions the first reason as well).
I considered adding the second reason to this article but decided it would be unwise without having access to the sources. Therefore, I need the help of someone more knowledgeable or having access to sources in order to resolve the conflict.
Top.Squark ( talk) 15:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Frederick quickly began improving the infrastructure of West Prussia, reforming its administrative and legal code, and improving the school system. That's an old claim from Prussian propaganda trying to justify the Partitions. In fact Frederick copied school system that was already developed in Poland as attempts of reforms that Prussia opposed.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 23:10, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Your google scholar results suggest that this is an old work, and looking at its outdated stereotypes(anarchic Poland) and so on, not very objective-although some data can be rescued. Of course the claim that Frederich improved his conquests is false-there was no improvement as local population was discriminated and attempts were made to destroy Polish culture-these propaganda claims by Prussia that were adopted later by German nationalists are sadly sometimes repeated even today, and more widespread in older works as Ritter's book from 70s shows. Sources on this will be provided.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 12:20, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
And who says he was Nazi? Several German nationalists weren't. Doesn't mean we should source them on Poland. I will replace him with modern resources. As to anti-Nazi conspirators in 1944- you mean the ones made out of far right nationalists who wanted to occupy Poland and were glad of Polish population serving as slaves as declared by Stauffenberg? Another reason not to source him on Poland I am afraid. I see no reason why more neutral modern sources shouldn't be used.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 15:11, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Ritter was rather right-wing, but I think the real issue is that he wrote a very long time ago (we cannot exclude work by reputable historians simply because we disagree with their politics). Surely there must be more recent sources than Ritter which discuss these issues, preferably ones in English. For instance, there's Christopher Clark's recent history of Prussia. john k ( talk) 01:27, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Christopher Clark's recent history of Prussia.-oh he has been criticised as viewing Prussia by rose-tinted glasses. Certainly not a neutral source. And actually the fact his book was once widely cited by some Polish strongmen Who and were may I ask? Would like to see this. I remember giving some numbers from the book-which I now regret seeing its nationalists undertones, but only numbers. But since I am of German origins surely you don't mean me :) Cheers.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 18:27, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Just a quick note, the sentence under dispute is actually cited to Koch rather than Ritter. Still an old work. Volunteer Marek 21:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
But while we're discussing Ritter just wanted to note that when it comes to economic matters the guy's a neo-mercantilist of the kind that you'll rarely find among modern historians and almost never among economists or economic historians (truth be told it seems more to me that Ritter was so enamored with Frederick that he felt it necessary to laud the man's economic policies whatever they were, rather than starting from a neo-mercantilist position to begin with). FtG's economic policies have been criticized (mostly, not all of them) from the economic point of view not necessarily for any kind of nationalist bias but because in fact, they were mercantilist. As a quick example Ritter gives Fred's support for the silk industry which he says was raised to "considerable - if somewhat artificial - prosperity". What actually happened was that Fred basically kept propping up a completely inefficient industry with taxpayer money for sake of prestige alone. The usual way to describe such a policy is "wasteful" rather than "artificial prosperity", particularly since the money spent on keeping the silk producers going could've been more wisely spent elsewhere. Volunteer Marek 21:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
And as long as we're using old works, here's a particular "oldie but a goodie" wtr to Fred's economics [1]. Provided mostly for contrast with Koch's and Ritter's economic ignorance. Volunteer Marek 21:21, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
RE:Molobo (after EC) - As for Christopher Clarke also having “been criticised as viewing Prussia by rose-tinted glasses” (is there actually anyone outside Poland, who hasn't been, by your logic?), make sure at first that you don't repeat your April 2008 fiasco, - kann Dich teuer zu stehen kommen, Du deutschstämmiger Kumpel. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 21:24, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
There probably should be section about that-he played a large role in German nationalism, and his rather severe and flawed rule that resulted in much hardship for unfortunate subjects was idolised by some German nationalist writers, that had an imprint on his portayal in historical works. This is I believe quite a significant issue that deserves a mention in seperate paragraph.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 01:37, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I feel obligated to point out a seeming discrepancy concerning Frederick II but hope, by sharing it here, to foster a resolution. This article contends that Frederick's "involuntary matrimony did not lead to children and after becoming king, Frederick largely ignored his wife." It also claims that because he had "no children of his own, Frederick was succeeded by his nephew as King Frederick William II of Prussia."
While his nephew does appear to have inheritied the Prussian throne, at least two other sources (the Jewish Encyclopedia and the Catholic Encyclopedia) cite a 'son', William (Wilhelm) IX succeeding Frederick II as crown prince of Hesse-Cassel (Hesse-Kassel).
Please see the Catholic Encylclopedia under "Hesse" at: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07298c.htm for the following reference:
" His son, William IX (1785-1821), in accordance with the Peace of Lunéville, received rich compensation (mostly in ecclesiastical territory) for Rheinfels, ceded to the French, and was granted in 1803 the title of elector."
And the Jewish Encyclopedia under "Rothschild" at: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=445&letter=R for the following reference:
"he became an agent of William IX., Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel, who on his father's death in 1785 had inherited the largest private fortune in Europe, derived mainly from the hire of troops" . . .
Comments?
-- gospelnous 04:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Umm...Frederick II of Hesse-Kassel was a different person from Frederick II of Prussia, as Prussia and Hesse-Kassel were two separate German states at the time. Notice that Frederick II of Hesse-Kassel died a year earlier than Frederick the Great, among other things. The two were, however, second cousins (Frederick of Hesse's maternal grandmother was a sister of King Frederick I of Prussia). john k 07:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Another error: He (Frederick II of Prussia) was not succeeded by Frederick William II, but rather Frederick William IV. His father was Frederick William III. Dgljr5121973 ( talk) 08:50, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Ronhjones (Talk) 21:24, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Frederick II of Prussia →
Frederick the Great —. On the same grounds that
Catherine II of Russia was just moved to
Catherine the Great - it is the name by which he is best known and
WP:NCROY explicitly provides an exception for cases like this.
john k (
talk)
04:00, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
This ngram suggests that Frederick II is actually somewhat more common is modern usage; whether or not this is true, it denies the sort of preponderance we now require. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:05, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Google Books shows us 272,000 results for "frederick the great" -"frederick ii of prussia", and only 14,500 results for "frederick ii of prussia" -"frederick the great" - a commanding majority for "the Great". Dohn joe ( talk) 00:10, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
I added POV tag:Repeated removal of sourced material, usage of pre-WW2 publications by acknowledged German nationalist writer as source of information, manipulation of sourced content.Untill these issues are corrected the article can't be seen as neutral.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 14:03, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Frederick repeatedly emphasized that nationality and religion were of no concern to him And I guess that's why Prussian tax system under Frederick was based on nationality criteria? -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 14:58, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Ritter worked on Nazi propaganda book before WW2 where he wanted to and proposed to people in charge of the project to promote the worst possible view of Poland during Partitions. I again kindly suggest removing this nationalist writer from sources.Otherwise I believe we have to cover his background. Source:Germany turns eastwards: a study of Ostforschung in the Third Reich by Michael Burleigh. -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 02:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Doctor Ingo Haar is a distinguished historian who specialises in research on German historians, a better source hardly exists. It seems this is a classic case of WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT, combined with removal of scholarly resources. Which in fact can be provided in great numbers as Ritter is referenced as nationalists by several scholarly authors. -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 13:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Why is Haar's judgment on Ritter's work of more importance than that of Peter Paret Peter Paret? Even he names Ritter as nationalist.An artist against the Third Reich: Ernst Barlach, 1933-1938 Peter Paret page 112.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 13:36, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't think anyone disputes that Ritter was a German nationalist. I just don't see how that's relevant. Everybody has political commitments, and Ritter's made him no less capable of writing useful history than anybody else. Writing propaganda for a political cause is one thing, and we should avoid such works as sources; but simply having a (currently very unpopular) political view that informs one's scholarship can't be a cause for exclusion, or there'd be no useful sources at all. I'm not sure why any of this is productive. Ideally we should not be using Ritter as a source, except maybe for narrative details. His work is old, and has been superseded. Both sides here should be trying to improve the article by making sure it reflects the judgments of recent scholarship, not arguing about Gerhard Ritter's politics. john k ( talk) 13:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
John-Ritter is strongly mentioned as propagandist for Prussia, and he held anti-Polish view, while promoting an idolized view of Prussia and Frederick. To use him as a source that justifies Prussian action against Poland or tries to put Frederick in better light, seems wrong-especially since this is the exact same work he did under the Nazis before the war-he was responsible for part about Partitions in book that was to justify German rule in Central and Eastern Europe and he eagerly contributed(there are examples of his letter where he gloats about how he will deliver it "to the Poles"). The book was issued with a dedication to Adolf Hitler. To present this worldview here as objective is unacceptable.I propose to put this in seperate section where nationalist legacy of Frederick will be discussed and his reception among German nationalsit historians. In other cases we need to use Ritter with attribution, not as objective source. Some data can be salvaged but only some.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 14:02, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Why there is no mention of Frederick´s homosexuality? Even Voltaire and Diderot wrote about it, it was highly commented in those times and there is apparently strong evidence of it. Shouldn´t at least be mentioned as a possibility? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricardoch ( talk • contribs) 04:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes, because I edited the article. There was none. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricardoch ( talk • contribs) 00:11, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I am surprised that there was no mention of his relationship with his tutor Henri de Catt, certainly the closest male friend he had for a couple of decades ... product of his trip to the Netherlands, which he may have considered invading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.224.224 ( talk) 23:40, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
is it just a nice pseudo-historic legend? the biography of Peter Karl Christof von Keith (Katte) says that he escaped and was executed 'in absence'
[ Karl Christof von Keith] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.110.45.3 ( talk) 15:47, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
In the introduction to the article about Frederick the Great somebody (I assume that it was not the article's author) wrote that Frederick is buried in the Florida Disneyland. In the section about the King's burial it's stated that He's buried on the grounds of His palace. To my knowledge the latter description is correct so probably somebody made a joke. Or is there something we should know about :)? AdamSonnenberg27 ( talk) 23:49, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Rjensen - did you really just revert a piece of vandalism that said Frederick's father was "Batman" on the grounds that it is an "unsourced claim that he was gay"?! Are you serious? I pretty well suspect the vandal meant the fictional character Batman. I'm puzzled as to why you, however, thought that "Batman" was a reference to someone who is homosexual. And why your approach was to suggest simply that there is no source to support. Bizarre. Contaldo80 ( talk) 09:06, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Is there a section on the steel ramrod used by his troops which gave them an edge in the reloading rate of their muskets, or did I just miss it? Jokem ( talk) 20:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
http://www.scotwars.com/equip_smoothbore_musketry.htm
http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/infantry_tactics_2.htm
http://www.britishbattles.com/frederick/battle-kesselsdorf.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jokem ( talk • contribs) 20:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Why do footnotes jumps so much, numerically? In the section "First partition of Poland" the sequence goes 31, 32, 33, 33, 33, 33, 34, 26, 25, 35, 25, 35, 36, 37, 25, 35, and 26. The next section, "Modernization," begins 35, 38, 39, 40. Is this deliberate? I think it should be cleaned up to be chronological. Catherinejarvis ( talk) 17:54, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Noble blood runs through every Barenklau straight from Prussia, as I well know us, Barenklaus moved to the U.S. before World War I possibly even before the Civil War because of Monarchy was not very much kept together at the time thus Us loosing alot of lineage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.102.16.151 ( talk) 04:26, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Frederick William, weakened by gout brought about by the campaign....
How could gout could be "brought about" by a military campaign? I believe its causes usually are genetic or dietary. Sca ( talk) 20:57, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
The article describes the young Frederick as "effete". That word means "weak" (it has the same root as fetus, referring to a woman's physical weakness after giving birth), but it's commonly used to mean "effeminate". Of course, we already have a word for that -- "effeminate". The writer should give a specific description of his character, rather than falling back on an overly general word. WilliamSommerwerck ( talk) 13:51, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
I wanted to add links to the three ships named after Friedrich der Grosse but have no idea how to do this with these automatic formats now used for these "x is about x, for y see here" on top. thestor ( talk) 04:33, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Re: [3]. As far as Ritter goes, I don't know if he's been discussed or not. Let's discuss it again. From where I'm standing, the kind of racist crap he wrote could only be published in the 1950's or before. Add to that the fact he was an obvious nationalist and his Nazi collaboratin' past. Needs to go. Not fit for an encyclopedia.
Besides that - besides Ritter, why is Estlandia restoring text which obviously misrepresents a source (in this case Clark)? Volunteer Marek 13:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
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I removed a vandalising paragraph. looks as if some sicko has it in for this page. Reverted becouse of vandalism -- Heno 02:12, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I moved this page back in keeping with the naming conventions reached a long time ago. Rulers are known by their name, reginal number, and dominion, with epithets going in the beginning of the article. Danny
The image of Frederick II of Prussia bears more than an uncanny resemblence to the image in the article on Frederick William II of Prussia...
I change the English translation of the quote "Hier muss ein jeder nach seiner Facon selig werden." from "Here every one must find his happiness in his own way." to "Here every one must find his belief in his own way.", because this quote was said in a religious context and "selig" is usually referring to "belief" instead of "happiness". thefox
I have no opinion over the use of "Friedrick" or "Frederich". Is there a Wikipedia policy? In any case, a consistent usage should be applied. I think I saw (and corrected) four different usages and some obvious mispellings like "Friedrick" and "Freidrick". Hopefully I haven't made things work. For now, I've resolved the inconsistencies to "Frederick" which should make a global replace easier to perform.
And what about this "Frederick" variant that is the current title? This is a serious inconsistency that should be corrected. WpZurp 06:47, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Whuh? The name is spelled Frederick. That's the English equivalent of the German "Friedrich". "Friedrick" is not a name normally used in any language, as far as I am aware. In English, Frederick is normally known by the anglicized form of his name. john k 00:32, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I'm torn on this. There seems to be an agenda with the amount and the manner of the references to his preferences. On the other hand, it helps to create an understanding that the normal dry material lacks. I think some tweaking should be done to make sure that all the references are appropriate to understanding his nature in the context that they are presented. Bwood 14:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
This article is used to promote the usual homosexual agenda and purpose. This being to make homosexuality seem to be legitimate and widespread, thereby giving it an appearance of normalcy. Lestrade 13:12, 26 October 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
I hope that normality is not represented by a hateful and psychologically histerical man like Lestrade. You should follow a treatment : you must have some psychological disease like paranoia. Anyway, normal, healthy and peaceful people are those who have normal relation with other people know that homosexual people are as """normal""" as heterosexual people. Homophoby is hate, it is one of the real abnormality in the world and, therefore, homophobic and intolerant people.
Our sympathies. Felix Kersten, Heinrich Himmler's masseur, amusingly records in his memoirs that when he told him that his hero Frederick was homosexual, he likewise became upset. Engleham 12:22, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
re: lestrade--It's fun to be piggish and bigoted, neh? I do agree, however, that the article is coming at the point too obliquely--it might note that certain (cited) sources have inferred or implied his homosexuality but then tell the story of his childhood etc. in less colored language. I've never read anything explicitly suggesting he was anything but uninterested in sexuality, but if those texts exist, I'd like to see them cited and have done with it.-- 74.100.116.23 19:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
By the way, the homosexuality of Frederick II was acknowledged by the PRINCE DE LIGNE, who had a discussion with him. This is a first hand observation, among others. It is interesting that Lestrade is not interested in truth but only in promoting the homophobic agenda, much more powerful and truth-hidding than a so-called and non-existing homosexual agenda.
Personal feelings about homosexuality aside, is there __hard__ evidence? The theory that he was estranged from his wife on the grounds of Austrian influence and his distaste of his father is far more compelling. Celebrating the great male friendships of Greece is not hard evidence since they weren't culturally associated with homo eroticism until our era. I can imagine having hallucinations and dramatic outbursts if my best friend was executed before my eyes. Or must we also associate drama queen behavior with homosexuality? Not everything is about sex... Nickjost ( talk) 01:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Remember that homosexuals are not only sexual beings.
The evidence will always, to a degree, be reliant on contemporary sources and accounts, and modern interpretation. Perhaps estrangement from his wife on the grounds of austrian influence is a compelling explanation for his behaviour - but likewise more evidence to draw this out would be helpful in supporting the case. There is a fair amount of anecdotal evidence to support the theory that Frederick was broadly attracted to his own sex (not least the correspondence and documentation by Voltaire); less so that he actually engaged in homosexual sexual activity. But I would dispute the fact that inclusion within the article of this material shows an over-interest in sex; I think instead it is looking at the issue of sexuality (a different issue) and is useful to shed light on Frederick the person - his characteristics, preferences and influences - in order to complement understanding of his political and military achievements. Contaldo80 ( talk) 09:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I believe many of the references to Frederick's intimate relationships discussed here (and since deleted) were put in the article by me. None of them presented Frederick as factually homosexual (that would be impossible to prove), but they did discuss people, pretty much all men, who had a deep and influential impact on Frederick's life. I used first-hand quotes, including from Voltaire, who lived with him for an extended period, and first-hand observations, such as by Frederick's sister. They were all sourced to a book published by Harvard College and written by an Emeritus Professor.
As to the "amount" of quotes, since he lived in a position and a time that made homosexuality criminal at best and deadly at worst, trying to sort out the conflicting information that's come down to us requires more information than just a tidy one line quote which might sum up an opposite-gender relationship to the satisfaction of most people. If I lived in a place where revelation of my relationship with a man would result in being ostracized and possibly imprisoned, I'd very likely claim to be asexual as well. If my father were an abusive bigot who beat me and killed my boyfriend, I might even genuinely become asexual out of psychological shock, but that wouldn't change my romantic interests. I'm not saying this is what happened with Frederick, as we can never know. I'm just saying that writing him off as naturally asexual is a tidy way to whitewash same-gender attraction out of history.
As to the "manner" of the quotes, I simply tried to integrate them into the article, in the same way that quotes about opposite-gender relationships and non-romantic relationships are often integrated into articles. I treated them as gender-neutral, including them in the same way I would have if Frederick had been female for instance.
It is frustrating that relationships between historical people of the same gender have to be cordoned off into a box of the subject's article with the first sentence usually saying something like "Some historians think so-and-so might have been bisexual or homosexual, but others believe he may have had a complete lack of interest in romantic relationships". Let's contrast that with the treatment given to opposite-gender relationships. President Eisenhower had a wife, but in the article covering him mention of her isn't limited to a special section labeled "Possible Heterosexuality" with an introductory sentence reading "Some historians think Eisenhower might have been bisexual or heterosexual, but others believe he may have had a complete lack of interest in romantic relationships". We have no proof that Eisenhower ever engaged in sex with his wife or had an interest in sex at all. No DNA tests were done to prove that her children were produced through sex with him. There are no first-hand accounts of him having sex with her or of him discussing sex with her. There is no _hard evidence_. Yet she is prominently displayed in the article as an assumedly romantic partner, and the belief that her children resulted in sex with him is taken for granted.
If there is a "homosexual agenda" to make homosexuality appear "legitimate and widespread", then it is far overshadowed in society by the agenda to make heterosexuality the primary assumption in all cases, to make it mandatory for all heroic figures, and to make anyone who can be "proven" to be homosexual appear creepy, silly, and/or irrelevant. To some extent, even liberal & progressive thinkers tend to buy into this by accepting assumptions of heterosexuality at face value and holding assumptions of homosexuality to a much higher standard of "evidence" and "proof", especially for figures treated as heroes. Markwiki ( talk) 06:25, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Before this turns into a fullscale edit war could we please take this to the discussion page? It seems to me we have a similar situation as with the Francis Bacon article. The evidence for Frederick being a homosexual are circumstantial at best, and it does not seem to be the academic consensus either. To use the LGBT category would in my opinion mean that the article takes a stance in this debate. -- Saddhiyama ( talk) 10:24, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
I think you're right - and commend your attempt to address this issue in a measured way. I can't say that I'm strongly attached to retaining the LGBT category - the main benefit I think it brings is in alerting readers who are interested in the category that there are other articles that they might want to look at. In that sense it serves simply as a "categorisation" tool to facilitate navigation across wikipedia. I worry that some contributors think that the label is actually a "classification" tool - and that it describes things in absolute terms.
I fully appreciate that issues of sexuality are complex and often open to interpretation - because they relate to the "personal feelings" of an individual then they can be hard to pin down. In Frederick's case (as with Bacon) we can never be 100% sure, but then do we need to be? If we describe Frederick as a German Lutheran then does this mean that we have to be content that he agreed absolutely with every doctrine of the Lutheran church or behaved in every way as an exemplary Lutheran Christian? A simple reading of Fredericks' life shows that he was predeominantly oriented towards the same sex; and this was noted by contemporaries.
I don't mind having a discussion about how we add/ remove labels. But I object to being personally abused where I have been called a "niche gay history lobbyist". I don't get paid, and I don't have to lobby anyone to get my view across thanks. Contaldo80 ( talk) 11:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
While I agree that classifying Frederick II or Francis Bacon as LGBT is anachronistic, I'd also like to point out that requiring "conclusive evidence" to list people as homosexual/LGBT also implies that homosexuality just didn't exist for large swaths of history to someone viewing the category or list. What kind of "conclusive evidence" could there possibly be for an 18th century European king being attracted to men? A public pronouncement? A sex tape? A letter to a man saying, "I love you, and not in some literary or philosophical way but in a romantic and lustful way"? Anything that might count as "conclusive evidence" would have destroyed the subject's life and possibly got him written out of the historical record anyhow, or would have been destroyed by patriots, relatives, or lovers terrified of their own lives being tainted. It is clear that Frederick's most important & intimate relationships were with men, but our language doesn't have a word for that which doesn't also require an impossible "coming out" or an impossible proof of some sex act. Markwiki ( talk) 07:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
According to the article
...Prussia consisted of scattered territories... and the former Duchy of Prussia, outside of the Empire bordering the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. He was titled King in Prussia because this was only part of historic Prussia; he was to declare himself King of Prussia after acquiring most of the rest in 1772.
However, according to Frederick I of Prussia
Although he was the Margrave and Prince-elector of Brandenburg and the Duke of Prussia, Frederick desired the more prestigious title of king. However, according to Germanic law at that time, no kingdoms could exist within the Holy Roman Empire, with the exception of the Kingdom of Bohemia.
Leopold I, Archduke of Austria and Holy Roman Emperor, was convinced by Frederick to allow Prussia to be ruled as a kingdom... Frederick's argument was that Prussia had never belonged to the Holy Roman Empire and therefore there was no legal or political barrier to prevent the Elector of Brandenburg from being King in Prussia...
Frederick crowned himself "King Frederick I in Prussia" on 18 January 1701 in Königsberg. To indicate that Frederick's royalty was limited to Prussia and did not reduce the rights of the Emperor in Frederick's Imperial territories, he had to call himself "King in Prussia", instead of "King of Prussia"
Also, according to King in Prussia
The Prince-Elector of Brandenburg was a subject of the Holy Roman Emperor. In addition to his electorate which was part of the Holy Roman Empire, he also ruled the Duchy of Prussia which lay outside of the Empire, and where he was full sovereign since the Treaty of Labiau (1656) and the Treaty of Bromberg (1657). In 1701 Elector Frederick III wanted to show his greatness by adopting the title king. At the time there were only three royal titles within the Empire: "King of the Germans" (a title held by the Emperor), "King of Bohemia" (often held by the Emperor as well), and "King of the Romans" (held by the Emperor's heir).
...Emperor Leopold I allowed Frederick to crown himself "King in Prussia", not "King of Prussia"; Frederick was only an elector in his domains within the borders of the Empire, not a king.
...Even so, his move was controversial... The title "King of Prussia" implied lordship over the entire Prussian region, not simply the Duchy of Prussia, and the assumption of such a title by the Hohenzollern margraves would have threatened neighboring Poland; because the province of Royal Prussia was part of the Kingdom of Poland, the Kings of Poland titled themselves Kings of Prussia until 1742.
Thus, this article and the other articles state different reasons for the use of the odd title "King in Prussia". According to this article, the only reason is the absence of Royal Prussia from the Elector's dominions. According to the other two articles, the primary reason is the objection of the Holy Roman Emperor to another king within the empire (although the "King in Prussia" article mentions the first reason as well).
I considered adding the second reason to this article but decided it would be unwise without having access to the sources. Therefore, I need the help of someone more knowledgeable or having access to sources in order to resolve the conflict.
Top.Squark ( talk) 15:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Frederick quickly began improving the infrastructure of West Prussia, reforming its administrative and legal code, and improving the school system. That's an old claim from Prussian propaganda trying to justify the Partitions. In fact Frederick copied school system that was already developed in Poland as attempts of reforms that Prussia opposed.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 23:10, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Your google scholar results suggest that this is an old work, and looking at its outdated stereotypes(anarchic Poland) and so on, not very objective-although some data can be rescued. Of course the claim that Frederich improved his conquests is false-there was no improvement as local population was discriminated and attempts were made to destroy Polish culture-these propaganda claims by Prussia that were adopted later by German nationalists are sadly sometimes repeated even today, and more widespread in older works as Ritter's book from 70s shows. Sources on this will be provided.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 12:20, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
And who says he was Nazi? Several German nationalists weren't. Doesn't mean we should source them on Poland. I will replace him with modern resources. As to anti-Nazi conspirators in 1944- you mean the ones made out of far right nationalists who wanted to occupy Poland and were glad of Polish population serving as slaves as declared by Stauffenberg? Another reason not to source him on Poland I am afraid. I see no reason why more neutral modern sources shouldn't be used.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 15:11, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Ritter was rather right-wing, but I think the real issue is that he wrote a very long time ago (we cannot exclude work by reputable historians simply because we disagree with their politics). Surely there must be more recent sources than Ritter which discuss these issues, preferably ones in English. For instance, there's Christopher Clark's recent history of Prussia. john k ( talk) 01:27, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Christopher Clark's recent history of Prussia.-oh he has been criticised as viewing Prussia by rose-tinted glasses. Certainly not a neutral source. And actually the fact his book was once widely cited by some Polish strongmen Who and were may I ask? Would like to see this. I remember giving some numbers from the book-which I now regret seeing its nationalists undertones, but only numbers. But since I am of German origins surely you don't mean me :) Cheers.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 18:27, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Just a quick note, the sentence under dispute is actually cited to Koch rather than Ritter. Still an old work. Volunteer Marek 21:10, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
But while we're discussing Ritter just wanted to note that when it comes to economic matters the guy's a neo-mercantilist of the kind that you'll rarely find among modern historians and almost never among economists or economic historians (truth be told it seems more to me that Ritter was so enamored with Frederick that he felt it necessary to laud the man's economic policies whatever they were, rather than starting from a neo-mercantilist position to begin with). FtG's economic policies have been criticized (mostly, not all of them) from the economic point of view not necessarily for any kind of nationalist bias but because in fact, they were mercantilist. As a quick example Ritter gives Fred's support for the silk industry which he says was raised to "considerable - if somewhat artificial - prosperity". What actually happened was that Fred basically kept propping up a completely inefficient industry with taxpayer money for sake of prestige alone. The usual way to describe such a policy is "wasteful" rather than "artificial prosperity", particularly since the money spent on keeping the silk producers going could've been more wisely spent elsewhere. Volunteer Marek 21:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
And as long as we're using old works, here's a particular "oldie but a goodie" wtr to Fred's economics [1]. Provided mostly for contrast with Koch's and Ritter's economic ignorance. Volunteer Marek 21:21, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
RE:Molobo (after EC) - As for Christopher Clarke also having “been criticised as viewing Prussia by rose-tinted glasses” (is there actually anyone outside Poland, who hasn't been, by your logic?), make sure at first that you don't repeat your April 2008 fiasco, - kann Dich teuer zu stehen kommen, Du deutschstämmiger Kumpel. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 21:24, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
There probably should be section about that-he played a large role in German nationalism, and his rather severe and flawed rule that resulted in much hardship for unfortunate subjects was idolised by some German nationalist writers, that had an imprint on his portayal in historical works. This is I believe quite a significant issue that deserves a mention in seperate paragraph.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 01:37, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
I feel obligated to point out a seeming discrepancy concerning Frederick II but hope, by sharing it here, to foster a resolution. This article contends that Frederick's "involuntary matrimony did not lead to children and after becoming king, Frederick largely ignored his wife." It also claims that because he had "no children of his own, Frederick was succeeded by his nephew as King Frederick William II of Prussia."
While his nephew does appear to have inheritied the Prussian throne, at least two other sources (the Jewish Encyclopedia and the Catholic Encyclopedia) cite a 'son', William (Wilhelm) IX succeeding Frederick II as crown prince of Hesse-Cassel (Hesse-Kassel).
Please see the Catholic Encylclopedia under "Hesse" at: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07298c.htm for the following reference:
" His son, William IX (1785-1821), in accordance with the Peace of Lunéville, received rich compensation (mostly in ecclesiastical territory) for Rheinfels, ceded to the French, and was granted in 1803 the title of elector."
And the Jewish Encyclopedia under "Rothschild" at: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=445&letter=R for the following reference:
"he became an agent of William IX., Landgrave of Hesse-Cassel, who on his father's death in 1785 had inherited the largest private fortune in Europe, derived mainly from the hire of troops" . . .
Comments?
-- gospelnous 04:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Umm...Frederick II of Hesse-Kassel was a different person from Frederick II of Prussia, as Prussia and Hesse-Kassel were two separate German states at the time. Notice that Frederick II of Hesse-Kassel died a year earlier than Frederick the Great, among other things. The two were, however, second cousins (Frederick of Hesse's maternal grandmother was a sister of King Frederick I of Prussia). john k 07:18, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
Another error: He (Frederick II of Prussia) was not succeeded by Frederick William II, but rather Frederick William IV. His father was Frederick William III. Dgljr5121973 ( talk) 08:50, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Ronhjones (Talk) 21:24, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Frederick II of Prussia →
Frederick the Great —. On the same grounds that
Catherine II of Russia was just moved to
Catherine the Great - it is the name by which he is best known and
WP:NCROY explicitly provides an exception for cases like this.
john k (
talk)
04:00, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
This ngram suggests that Frederick II is actually somewhat more common is modern usage; whether or not this is true, it denies the sort of preponderance we now require. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:05, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Google Books shows us 272,000 results for "frederick the great" -"frederick ii of prussia", and only 14,500 results for "frederick ii of prussia" -"frederick the great" - a commanding majority for "the Great". Dohn joe ( talk) 00:10, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
I added POV tag:Repeated removal of sourced material, usage of pre-WW2 publications by acknowledged German nationalist writer as source of information, manipulation of sourced content.Untill these issues are corrected the article can't be seen as neutral.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 14:03, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Frederick repeatedly emphasized that nationality and religion were of no concern to him And I guess that's why Prussian tax system under Frederick was based on nationality criteria? -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 14:58, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
Ritter worked on Nazi propaganda book before WW2 where he wanted to and proposed to people in charge of the project to promote the worst possible view of Poland during Partitions. I again kindly suggest removing this nationalist writer from sources.Otherwise I believe we have to cover his background. Source:Germany turns eastwards: a study of Ostforschung in the Third Reich by Michael Burleigh. -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 02:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Doctor Ingo Haar is a distinguished historian who specialises in research on German historians, a better source hardly exists. It seems this is a classic case of WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT, combined with removal of scholarly resources. Which in fact can be provided in great numbers as Ritter is referenced as nationalists by several scholarly authors. -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 13:31, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Why is Haar's judgment on Ritter's work of more importance than that of Peter Paret Peter Paret? Even he names Ritter as nationalist.An artist against the Third Reich: Ernst Barlach, 1933-1938 Peter Paret page 112.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 13:36, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
I don't think anyone disputes that Ritter was a German nationalist. I just don't see how that's relevant. Everybody has political commitments, and Ritter's made him no less capable of writing useful history than anybody else. Writing propaganda for a political cause is one thing, and we should avoid such works as sources; but simply having a (currently very unpopular) political view that informs one's scholarship can't be a cause for exclusion, or there'd be no useful sources at all. I'm not sure why any of this is productive. Ideally we should not be using Ritter as a source, except maybe for narrative details. His work is old, and has been superseded. Both sides here should be trying to improve the article by making sure it reflects the judgments of recent scholarship, not arguing about Gerhard Ritter's politics. john k ( talk) 13:50, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
John-Ritter is strongly mentioned as propagandist for Prussia, and he held anti-Polish view, while promoting an idolized view of Prussia and Frederick. To use him as a source that justifies Prussian action against Poland or tries to put Frederick in better light, seems wrong-especially since this is the exact same work he did under the Nazis before the war-he was responsible for part about Partitions in book that was to justify German rule in Central and Eastern Europe and he eagerly contributed(there are examples of his letter where he gloats about how he will deliver it "to the Poles"). The book was issued with a dedication to Adolf Hitler. To present this worldview here as objective is unacceptable.I propose to put this in seperate section where nationalist legacy of Frederick will be discussed and his reception among German nationalsit historians. In other cases we need to use Ritter with attribution, not as objective source. Some data can be salvaged but only some.-- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 14:02, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Why there is no mention of Frederick´s homosexuality? Even Voltaire and Diderot wrote about it, it was highly commented in those times and there is apparently strong evidence of it. Shouldn´t at least be mentioned as a possibility? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricardoch ( talk • contribs) 04:11, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Yes, because I edited the article. There was none. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricardoch ( talk • contribs) 00:11, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
I am surprised that there was no mention of his relationship with his tutor Henri de Catt, certainly the closest male friend he had for a couple of decades ... product of his trip to the Netherlands, which he may have considered invading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.224.224 ( talk) 23:40, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
is it just a nice pseudo-historic legend? the biography of Peter Karl Christof von Keith (Katte) says that he escaped and was executed 'in absence'
[ Karl Christof von Keith] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.110.45.3 ( talk) 15:47, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
In the introduction to the article about Frederick the Great somebody (I assume that it was not the article's author) wrote that Frederick is buried in the Florida Disneyland. In the section about the King's burial it's stated that He's buried on the grounds of His palace. To my knowledge the latter description is correct so probably somebody made a joke. Or is there something we should know about :)? AdamSonnenberg27 ( talk) 23:49, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Rjensen - did you really just revert a piece of vandalism that said Frederick's father was "Batman" on the grounds that it is an "unsourced claim that he was gay"?! Are you serious? I pretty well suspect the vandal meant the fictional character Batman. I'm puzzled as to why you, however, thought that "Batman" was a reference to someone who is homosexual. And why your approach was to suggest simply that there is no source to support. Bizarre. Contaldo80 ( talk) 09:06, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Is there a section on the steel ramrod used by his troops which gave them an edge in the reloading rate of their muskets, or did I just miss it? Jokem ( talk) 20:52, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
http://www.scotwars.com/equip_smoothbore_musketry.htm
http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/infantry_tactics_2.htm
http://www.britishbattles.com/frederick/battle-kesselsdorf.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jokem ( talk • contribs) 20:59, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
Why do footnotes jumps so much, numerically? In the section "First partition of Poland" the sequence goes 31, 32, 33, 33, 33, 33, 34, 26, 25, 35, 25, 35, 36, 37, 25, 35, and 26. The next section, "Modernization," begins 35, 38, 39, 40. Is this deliberate? I think it should be cleaned up to be chronological. Catherinejarvis ( talk) 17:54, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Noble blood runs through every Barenklau straight from Prussia, as I well know us, Barenklaus moved to the U.S. before World War I possibly even before the Civil War because of Monarchy was not very much kept together at the time thus Us loosing alot of lineage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.102.16.151 ( talk) 04:26, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Frederick William, weakened by gout brought about by the campaign....
How could gout could be "brought about" by a military campaign? I believe its causes usually are genetic or dietary. Sca ( talk) 20:57, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
The article describes the young Frederick as "effete". That word means "weak" (it has the same root as fetus, referring to a woman's physical weakness after giving birth), but it's commonly used to mean "effeminate". Of course, we already have a word for that -- "effeminate". The writer should give a specific description of his character, rather than falling back on an overly general word. WilliamSommerwerck ( talk) 13:51, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
I wanted to add links to the three ships named after Friedrich der Grosse but have no idea how to do this with these automatic formats now used for these "x is about x, for y see here" on top. thestor ( talk) 04:33, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Re: [3]. As far as Ritter goes, I don't know if he's been discussed or not. Let's discuss it again. From where I'm standing, the kind of racist crap he wrote could only be published in the 1950's or before. Add to that the fact he was an obvious nationalist and his Nazi collaboratin' past. Needs to go. Not fit for an encyclopedia.
Besides that - besides Ritter, why is Estlandia restoring text which obviously misrepresents a source (in this case Clark)? Volunteer Marek 13:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)