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the page as it is now is rather focused on his term in Canada. Does anyone know anything about his time as Indian viceroy, which would likely have been as important, if not more so? john 23:50, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Worldtraveller, the article is in pretty good shape, but still suffers from some blind spots that keep it from being comprehensive. What about Dufferin's period in Russia? He was also ambassador to Turkey, and intrigued in the events leading up to the British invasion of Egypt. Fawcett5 19:14, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi
Worldtraveller, I've noticed a potential problem with the article that would disqualify it out of hand for FAC. The original entry was pretty much lifted from
The Govenor General's Official website. Unfortunately, that article is covered by CanadaCopyright, which is not entirely GFDL compatible. While there have been many revisions since then, it appears that there are still large chunks of the text that are obviously derived from that source. This will need to be remediated immediately. Some of the stuff is kind of wonky anyway - Dome hall, etc.
Fawcett5 20:37, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
OK, Worldtraveller's last round of rewrites have largely gotten rid of any copyvio concerns. Fawcett5 21:40, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning he was born Frederick Temple Blackwood; took the name Hamilton by royal licence 9 Sep. 1862, and added the name of Temple on 13 Nov 1872? - Nunh-huh 01:52, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Certainly. john k 02:26, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
On rereading this, I realised there is not much on his background. Being born into privilige seems an important part of his story. What were his parents noted for? What is the story behind his birth in Italy? Fawcett5 06:34, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
According to the ODNB article on his mother, his father's parents opposed his father's marriage, since the bride was not terribly wealthy, so the young couple went to live in Florence. They apparently returned within a few years. john k 04:58, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi all - with the resolution of the copyvio concerns discussed above, it seems like the article is very close to suitability for FAC status. I actually thought it was ready already, but a final readthrough convinces me that there are three more tiny things that should be addressed. These all stem from the fact that Dufferins career was very long.
Once these are addressed, I'm willing to do the nomination for FAC, but I would like to get consensus from Worldtraveller and others before doing so. Doing it this way will improve the chances for FA status, since I only came along during the peer review and have mostly just suggested changes and made relatively minor copyedits - it won't be a self-nom. Opinions? Fawcett5 21:40, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
DUFFERIN AND THE INDIAN NATIONAL CONGRESS
Should be Indian National Congress; it was not yet a "party" in 1885. Also Dufferin cannot be said to have "presided" over its founding. If anything, he tolerated its founding, nothing more.
The wide-spread but entirely false myth that Dufferin "founded" the Indian National Congress has been spread by extremists on the Indian Left and Right who opposed Congress for years. Curiously, pro-British authors echo the same falsehood, presumably on the basis that Indians could never get something so successful off the ground without support from the British.
The myth of Dufferin's "founding" of Congress was thoroughly explored and exploded by Bipan Chandra in "India's Struggle for Independence" (1988: Penguin Book India).
No one denies the role of A.O. Hume in the founding of Congress, least of all the Indians themselves, but at this point (1885) he was an ex-British official, pressured to retire early, who was opposed in his support for Indian home rule every step of the way by is former colleagues.
DUFFERIN IN INDIA
The statement that Dufferin could be said to have "by all accounts" satisfied the varying political and ideological cadres in India is a point of definite contention. R.P. Patwardhan (Dadabhi Naoroji Correspondence, Vol II.) and Sumit Sarkar (Modern India, 1885-1947. Macmillan 1983) have challenged his popularity and effectiveness with the Indian elite and the founders of the INC, in addition to previously mentioned Bipan Chandra. I would be curious to see what British sources have to say on this matter, as well, as all the authors mention that he was not popular with the Raj, either. Additionally, I would be curious to know what the general Indian population may have felt towards him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.198.32.131 ( talk) 05:54, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I have noticed that he does not have the title of Right Honourable before his name, however, he is stated as a member of the UK's Privy Council. Is this just because it was forgotten? user:Ctjj.stevenson
Rather than pingpong this back and forth to the usual spelling of Thingvellir IN ENGLISH by changing back the Þ-spelling that I'd previously corrected. I suspect that the arbitration of this issue will put it to where I think it should be - with "th" instead of "Þ", which is not a letter used in English and is unfamiliar to 95% or more of English speakers, native and otherwise. It doesn't matter if Þingvellir is the correct spelling in Icelandic or not; it's whether or not it's acceptable in written English. It's not. Skookum1 05:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
This section needs a lot more elaboration. It shouldn't be removed (if the story has been told about him, it shouldn't be ignored), but it needs to mention any reasearch that was made on the story-there has been, I remember reading on it. bob bobato ( talk) 20:56, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
I remember hearing this story as "fact" some years ago, along with the embellishment that the man carrying the coffin had a "terrible expression" on his face. I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in the article, only to find that it had been wiped on the somewhat dubious grounds that "it didn't happen", on which grounds one would of course have to remove any mention of Alfred the Great burning the cakes. I'm glad someone has taken the trouble to look up the truth of the matter. Debunking popular myths (e.g. invented origins of words and phrases) is actually one of the things wikipedia is extremely useful for. Paulturtle ( talk) 21:53, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Well, I've never heard it told of anybody other than Dufferin, but you may be right. I guess it's probably a version of what is nowadays known as the "vanishing hitchhiker" story, itself probably derived from much older folklore tales. Harold Nicolson (born in the 1880s) apparently remembered Dufferin telling the story as a boy, but my copy of his diaries is boxed up somewhere. Paulturtle ( talk) 05:17, 23 October 2020 (UTC) It's apparently in a 1937 book by Nicolson called "Helen's Tower", dated to his boyhood in the 1890s. Paulturtle ( talk) 03:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
I have recently received a copy of a short text (a little over 4500 words) written by the MARQUIS OF DUFFERIN AND AVA, entitled "The siege of Bomarsund as seen from the deck of the 'Foam.'" It is copyright, 1898, by Perry Mason & Co. in the USA. I am not sure whether this means that the text may be quoted or not on Wikipedia - perhaps somebody else can help here. The text begins "In the summer of 1854, having become the happy possessor of a small schooner-yacht of eighty tons called the "Foam", I set sail for the Baltic, in the hope of seeing something of the naval warfare between ourselves and the Russians, of which it was about to become the theatre." The text then describes the siege of Bomarsund in considerable detail, and ends with the voyage back to Britain, via Visby in Gotland, the Shetland Isles and a winter-long stay at Glenquoich. This is only a brief chapter in what is a long and interesting lifestory and I am not sure that it merits being related at length in this biography. However, it does at least indicate that the yacht, "Foam", was purchased by Fredrick Temple Blackwood in (or before) 1854 and not, as in the text on Wikipedia, 1856. I am a novice to Wikipedia and do not feel that I have sufficient knowledge of Fredrick Temple Blackwood's life to edit this entry, but if there is anybody who is interested in receiving a copy of this text please let me know. 194.110.191.70 ( talk) 10:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I think you missed something remarkable concerning his visit to Visby: he wrote that he took a photograph of a painting there which means that he must have had a camera at Bomarsund, question is if he did take any photos there? If so, that would be a real 'first', there are no known photographs from Bomarsund earlier than the late 1800s while we all know of the lots of photographs that Roger Fenton, Robinson et al took at Sevastopol. BTW, I also have that story but I doubt any copyright restrictions apply now, isn't there a 100 year limit on that? And it was published 111 years ago...
Recently the file File:Frederick Temple Hamilton-Temple-Blackwood, 1st Marquess of Dufferin and Ava by George Frederic Watts.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 07:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
This may be worth mentioning in the article: https://thediscoverblog.com/2016/09/20/a-very-desolate-place-the-lord-dufferin-letters/ Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 19:34, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
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![]() | Frederick Hamilton-Temple-Blackwood, 1st Marquess of Dufferin and Ava is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
the page as it is now is rather focused on his term in Canada. Does anyone know anything about his time as Indian viceroy, which would likely have been as important, if not more so? john 23:50, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Worldtraveller, the article is in pretty good shape, but still suffers from some blind spots that keep it from being comprehensive. What about Dufferin's period in Russia? He was also ambassador to Turkey, and intrigued in the events leading up to the British invasion of Egypt. Fawcett5 19:14, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi
Worldtraveller, I've noticed a potential problem with the article that would disqualify it out of hand for FAC. The original entry was pretty much lifted from
The Govenor General's Official website. Unfortunately, that article is covered by CanadaCopyright, which is not entirely GFDL compatible. While there have been many revisions since then, it appears that there are still large chunks of the text that are obviously derived from that source. This will need to be remediated immediately. Some of the stuff is kind of wonky anyway - Dome hall, etc.
Fawcett5 20:37, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
OK, Worldtraveller's last round of rewrites have largely gotten rid of any copyvio concerns. Fawcett5 21:40, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Is it worth mentioning he was born Frederick Temple Blackwood; took the name Hamilton by royal licence 9 Sep. 1862, and added the name of Temple on 13 Nov 1872? - Nunh-huh 01:52, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Certainly. john k 02:26, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
On rereading this, I realised there is not much on his background. Being born into privilige seems an important part of his story. What were his parents noted for? What is the story behind his birth in Italy? Fawcett5 06:34, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
According to the ODNB article on his mother, his father's parents opposed his father's marriage, since the bride was not terribly wealthy, so the young couple went to live in Florence. They apparently returned within a few years. john k 04:58, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hi all - with the resolution of the copyvio concerns discussed above, it seems like the article is very close to suitability for FAC status. I actually thought it was ready already, but a final readthrough convinces me that there are three more tiny things that should be addressed. These all stem from the fact that Dufferins career was very long.
Once these are addressed, I'm willing to do the nomination for FAC, but I would like to get consensus from Worldtraveller and others before doing so. Doing it this way will improve the chances for FA status, since I only came along during the peer review and have mostly just suggested changes and made relatively minor copyedits - it won't be a self-nom. Opinions? Fawcett5 21:40, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
DUFFERIN AND THE INDIAN NATIONAL CONGRESS
Should be Indian National Congress; it was not yet a "party" in 1885. Also Dufferin cannot be said to have "presided" over its founding. If anything, he tolerated its founding, nothing more.
The wide-spread but entirely false myth that Dufferin "founded" the Indian National Congress has been spread by extremists on the Indian Left and Right who opposed Congress for years. Curiously, pro-British authors echo the same falsehood, presumably on the basis that Indians could never get something so successful off the ground without support from the British.
The myth of Dufferin's "founding" of Congress was thoroughly explored and exploded by Bipan Chandra in "India's Struggle for Independence" (1988: Penguin Book India).
No one denies the role of A.O. Hume in the founding of Congress, least of all the Indians themselves, but at this point (1885) he was an ex-British official, pressured to retire early, who was opposed in his support for Indian home rule every step of the way by is former colleagues.
DUFFERIN IN INDIA
The statement that Dufferin could be said to have "by all accounts" satisfied the varying political and ideological cadres in India is a point of definite contention. R.P. Patwardhan (Dadabhi Naoroji Correspondence, Vol II.) and Sumit Sarkar (Modern India, 1885-1947. Macmillan 1983) have challenged his popularity and effectiveness with the Indian elite and the founders of the INC, in addition to previously mentioned Bipan Chandra. I would be curious to see what British sources have to say on this matter, as well, as all the authors mention that he was not popular with the Raj, either. Additionally, I would be curious to know what the general Indian population may have felt towards him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.198.32.131 ( talk) 05:54, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I have noticed that he does not have the title of Right Honourable before his name, however, he is stated as a member of the UK's Privy Council. Is this just because it was forgotten? user:Ctjj.stevenson
Rather than pingpong this back and forth to the usual spelling of Thingvellir IN ENGLISH by changing back the Þ-spelling that I'd previously corrected. I suspect that the arbitration of this issue will put it to where I think it should be - with "th" instead of "Þ", which is not a letter used in English and is unfamiliar to 95% or more of English speakers, native and otherwise. It doesn't matter if Þingvellir is the correct spelling in Icelandic or not; it's whether or not it's acceptable in written English. It's not. Skookum1 05:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
This section needs a lot more elaboration. It shouldn't be removed (if the story has been told about him, it shouldn't be ignored), but it needs to mention any reasearch that was made on the story-there has been, I remember reading on it. bob bobato ( talk) 20:56, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
I remember hearing this story as "fact" some years ago, along with the embellishment that the man carrying the coffin had a "terrible expression" on his face. I was surprised it wasn't mentioned in the article, only to find that it had been wiped on the somewhat dubious grounds that "it didn't happen", on which grounds one would of course have to remove any mention of Alfred the Great burning the cakes. I'm glad someone has taken the trouble to look up the truth of the matter. Debunking popular myths (e.g. invented origins of words and phrases) is actually one of the things wikipedia is extremely useful for. Paulturtle ( talk) 21:53, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Well, I've never heard it told of anybody other than Dufferin, but you may be right. I guess it's probably a version of what is nowadays known as the "vanishing hitchhiker" story, itself probably derived from much older folklore tales. Harold Nicolson (born in the 1880s) apparently remembered Dufferin telling the story as a boy, but my copy of his diaries is boxed up somewhere. Paulturtle ( talk) 05:17, 23 October 2020 (UTC) It's apparently in a 1937 book by Nicolson called "Helen's Tower", dated to his boyhood in the 1890s. Paulturtle ( talk) 03:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
I have recently received a copy of a short text (a little over 4500 words) written by the MARQUIS OF DUFFERIN AND AVA, entitled "The siege of Bomarsund as seen from the deck of the 'Foam.'" It is copyright, 1898, by Perry Mason & Co. in the USA. I am not sure whether this means that the text may be quoted or not on Wikipedia - perhaps somebody else can help here. The text begins "In the summer of 1854, having become the happy possessor of a small schooner-yacht of eighty tons called the "Foam", I set sail for the Baltic, in the hope of seeing something of the naval warfare between ourselves and the Russians, of which it was about to become the theatre." The text then describes the siege of Bomarsund in considerable detail, and ends with the voyage back to Britain, via Visby in Gotland, the Shetland Isles and a winter-long stay at Glenquoich. This is only a brief chapter in what is a long and interesting lifestory and I am not sure that it merits being related at length in this biography. However, it does at least indicate that the yacht, "Foam", was purchased by Fredrick Temple Blackwood in (or before) 1854 and not, as in the text on Wikipedia, 1856. I am a novice to Wikipedia and do not feel that I have sufficient knowledge of Fredrick Temple Blackwood's life to edit this entry, but if there is anybody who is interested in receiving a copy of this text please let me know. 194.110.191.70 ( talk) 10:39, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I think you missed something remarkable concerning his visit to Visby: he wrote that he took a photograph of a painting there which means that he must have had a camera at Bomarsund, question is if he did take any photos there? If so, that would be a real 'first', there are no known photographs from Bomarsund earlier than the late 1800s while we all know of the lots of photographs that Roger Fenton, Robinson et al took at Sevastopol. BTW, I also have that story but I doubt any copyright restrictions apply now, isn't there a 100 year limit on that? And it was published 111 years ago...
Recently the file File:Frederick Temple Hamilton-Temple-Blackwood, 1st Marquess of Dufferin and Ava by George Frederic Watts.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 07:37, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
This may be worth mentioning in the article: https://thediscoverblog.com/2016/09/20/a-very-desolate-place-the-lord-dufferin-letters/ Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 19:34, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Frederick Hamilton-Temple-Blackwood, 1st Marquess of Dufferin and Ava. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:17, 29 November 2017 (UTC)