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F. Benteen's role in the defeat of Custer's 7th Cavalry by the Sioux has been a subject of controversy almost since the fighting ceased. Custerphiles blame Custer's defeat on Benteen's "daliance" while on the oblique scout trail, his waiting for the packtrain and his stopping to assist Reno's badly beaten battalion, since he didn't ride to Custer's defense. However, an objective examination of all the facts don't necessitate such a view. I have attempted to add more complete information (such as the complete text of Custer's note to Benteen, which specifically instructed him to bring the packs) so as to provide a more neutral point of view regarding the controversy. I have also added a "References" section before the "Further Reading" section with listings that support this additional information. Akradecki 22:07, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
It would appear this article is slanted to find excuses for his actions. Right or not, this gives the article quite a POV impression, IMHO. I have removed one of those additions, as the text is not encyclopedic, cites no sources and is not even copied complete from its source, it ends in mid-sentence. Removed text: "however an unbiased look at the circumstances, including the fact that Reno's command was in shambles, with their ammunition supply exhausted, and that Reno was Benteen's immediate superior officer shows that an immediate move to support Custer, ." -- Lomedae 08:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
-- Lomedae 19:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I received a reply with sources:
Utley, Robert M. Custer and the Great Controversy: The Origin and Development of a Legend. University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln and London, 1998.
Page 60: At the inquest "Interest revived when B. F. Churchill, a civilian packer, testified that Reno had been drunk on the night of June 25."
Footnote 10: "According to an article in the Northwestern Christian Advocate, Sept. 7, 1904, Reno admitted to the Advocate’s editor Rev. Arthur Edwards, that his behavior in the engagement had been influenced by alcohol. Most historians, however, balance this against the substantial testimony to the contrary developed by the Inquiry and acquit Reno of the charge."
I am amazed by that last statement, as the Inquiry only had Offier's testimory, and they could very well have been protecting one of their own, not uncommon in any army in the world. Moreover, Reno was dismissed in 1880 after striking a fellow officer whilst drunk...
Mary Trotter Kion had the following to add: "At a crucial point in Reno’s portion of the Battle Reno stood, or rode, face to face with his Indian Scout when said scout was shot in the head. Reportedly, the scout’s brains landed in Reno’s face. That alone is bound to give a man, at least temporarily, the distraught and confused appearance of drunkenness, especially with an uncountable number of hostiles after him and knowing now that his commanding officer had lied to him concerning assistance." Lomedae talk
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Suggest someone with a couple of books on the Little Bighorn Battle take a swing at adding references to this article, since it has no in-line citations. Or perhaps I'll try if I can. Jusdafax ( talk) 04:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I've just inaugurated a Wikipedia article on Capt. Thomas Weir. I notice he is mentioned, and rightly so, in the Battle of the Little Bighorn and Marcus Reno Wikipedia articles, but there is nothing at all here about him, and no notice of the fact (according to Evan S. Connell's book Son of the Morning Star) that Benteen DID try to get to Custer's position after the volley's were heard, though only after Capt. Weir started north first, against or without orders to do so. That should be fixed, of course, but I'll wait a bit to see if someone else wants get into it. Jusdafax ( talk) 01:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
The page previously stated that the Benteen Elementary School and Benteen Park neighborhood in Atlanta were named for Frederick William Benteen. This is clearly wrong for the school since the school web site states the name of the school is Frederick Wilson Benteen Elementary School. That is his son. I have changed the page. The neighborhood is apparently on land originally bought by Frederick Benteen and inherited by his son. I could find no source that definitely states who it is named for. I originally edited this sentence but I now think that since it could be either, it should be left out. It really isn't a memorial anyway, just the name of a previous owner of property.
This is what I put on the page originally, but I have moved it here because it is not definitive. It merely casts doubt on the previous statement that the neighborhood is named for Frederick Benteen, under a topic heading of Memorials and monuments. As noted, I don't think it would be a "memorial" even if it were named for Frederick William Benteen.
"The Benteen Park neighborhood in Atlanta Georgia could be named for father or son, as it is located on or near the property originally purchased by the elder Benteen, although inherited by the son. [1]"
If anyone can find a source for a definitive statement about the neighborhood, that editor can add something back, although I still would suggest it would not be a memorial unless that is also definitely stated in a reliable source.
I am not the editor who earlier commented on the main page but saw that comment and reversion and decided to see if I could find something definitive. Donner60 ( talk) 09:10, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
References
A sentence "Benteen made the peace sign" is seen in the section "7th Cavalry service under Custer". According to the article of Peace symbols and V sign, neither ☮ nor ✌ should have existed in his time.
What should have been "the peace sign" he made ? And, is it proper to refer to that sign as "the peace sign", taking the risk of confusion with modern equivalents ?-- 山田晴通 ( talk) 23:24, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Frederick Benteen article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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F. Benteen's role in the defeat of Custer's 7th Cavalry by the Sioux has been a subject of controversy almost since the fighting ceased. Custerphiles blame Custer's defeat on Benteen's "daliance" while on the oblique scout trail, his waiting for the packtrain and his stopping to assist Reno's badly beaten battalion, since he didn't ride to Custer's defense. However, an objective examination of all the facts don't necessitate such a view. I have attempted to add more complete information (such as the complete text of Custer's note to Benteen, which specifically instructed him to bring the packs) so as to provide a more neutral point of view regarding the controversy. I have also added a "References" section before the "Further Reading" section with listings that support this additional information. Akradecki 22:07, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
It would appear this article is slanted to find excuses for his actions. Right or not, this gives the article quite a POV impression, IMHO. I have removed one of those additions, as the text is not encyclopedic, cites no sources and is not even copied complete from its source, it ends in mid-sentence. Removed text: "however an unbiased look at the circumstances, including the fact that Reno's command was in shambles, with their ammunition supply exhausted, and that Reno was Benteen's immediate superior officer shows that an immediate move to support Custer, ." -- Lomedae 08:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
-- Lomedae 19:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I received a reply with sources:
Utley, Robert M. Custer and the Great Controversy: The Origin and Development of a Legend. University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln and London, 1998.
Page 60: At the inquest "Interest revived when B. F. Churchill, a civilian packer, testified that Reno had been drunk on the night of June 25."
Footnote 10: "According to an article in the Northwestern Christian Advocate, Sept. 7, 1904, Reno admitted to the Advocate’s editor Rev. Arthur Edwards, that his behavior in the engagement had been influenced by alcohol. Most historians, however, balance this against the substantial testimony to the contrary developed by the Inquiry and acquit Reno of the charge."
I am amazed by that last statement, as the Inquiry only had Offier's testimory, and they could very well have been protecting one of their own, not uncommon in any army in the world. Moreover, Reno was dismissed in 1880 after striking a fellow officer whilst drunk...
Mary Trotter Kion had the following to add: "At a crucial point in Reno’s portion of the Battle Reno stood, or rode, face to face with his Indian Scout when said scout was shot in the head. Reportedly, the scout’s brains landed in Reno’s face. That alone is bound to give a man, at least temporarily, the distraught and confused appearance of drunkenness, especially with an uncountable number of hostiles after him and knowing now that his commanding officer had lied to him concerning assistance." Lomedae talk
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:40, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Suggest someone with a couple of books on the Little Bighorn Battle take a swing at adding references to this article, since it has no in-line citations. Or perhaps I'll try if I can. Jusdafax ( talk) 04:47, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
I've just inaugurated a Wikipedia article on Capt. Thomas Weir. I notice he is mentioned, and rightly so, in the Battle of the Little Bighorn and Marcus Reno Wikipedia articles, but there is nothing at all here about him, and no notice of the fact (according to Evan S. Connell's book Son of the Morning Star) that Benteen DID try to get to Custer's position after the volley's were heard, though only after Capt. Weir started north first, against or without orders to do so. That should be fixed, of course, but I'll wait a bit to see if someone else wants get into it. Jusdafax ( talk) 01:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
The page previously stated that the Benteen Elementary School and Benteen Park neighborhood in Atlanta were named for Frederick William Benteen. This is clearly wrong for the school since the school web site states the name of the school is Frederick Wilson Benteen Elementary School. That is his son. I have changed the page. The neighborhood is apparently on land originally bought by Frederick Benteen and inherited by his son. I could find no source that definitely states who it is named for. I originally edited this sentence but I now think that since it could be either, it should be left out. It really isn't a memorial anyway, just the name of a previous owner of property.
This is what I put on the page originally, but I have moved it here because it is not definitive. It merely casts doubt on the previous statement that the neighborhood is named for Frederick Benteen, under a topic heading of Memorials and monuments. As noted, I don't think it would be a "memorial" even if it were named for Frederick William Benteen.
"The Benteen Park neighborhood in Atlanta Georgia could be named for father or son, as it is located on or near the property originally purchased by the elder Benteen, although inherited by the son. [1]"
If anyone can find a source for a definitive statement about the neighborhood, that editor can add something back, although I still would suggest it would not be a memorial unless that is also definitely stated in a reliable source.
I am not the editor who earlier commented on the main page but saw that comment and reversion and decided to see if I could find something definitive. Donner60 ( talk) 09:10, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
References
A sentence "Benteen made the peace sign" is seen in the section "7th Cavalry service under Custer". According to the article of Peace symbols and V sign, neither ☮ nor ✌ should have existed in his time.
What should have been "the peace sign" he made ? And, is it proper to refer to that sign as "the peace sign", taking the risk of confusion with modern equivalents ?-- 山田晴通 ( talk) 23:24, 26 May 2015 (UTC)