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Franking is one of the largest advantages of incumbency, contributing to a very high reelection rate in the U.S. legislative branch.
That cannot possibly be true. The allocation of capital that goes to postage has got to be misicule! If there is no citation, we should remove it. Franking is a very minor perk of office. Rlove 23:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
What's the origin of the term 'franking'? Could be a useful addition to the article. -- Ianboggs 08:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
This part doesn't really make sense. Where are the references? What was the outcome?
"In the 19th century, as use of the post office increased significantly in Britain, it was expected that anybody with a Parliament connection would get his friends' mail franked." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.197.165.89 ( talk) 07:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
To use a franking machine a licence is required and only a few companies can supply franking machines. Is this something that need adding? -- Timsp83 ( talk) 20:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
A discussion of issues relating to the completeness, accuracy, and sourcing of this article can be found at User talk:Ww2censor#Franking article issues ( Centpacrr ( talk) 19:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC))
Franking article issues
Upon closer inspection of the Franking article I find that it is not only almost completely unsourced, it appears as if it may well also be almost completely wrong as well. The first section on the "Franking privilege," for instance, states that the privilege permits elected officials such as Members of Congress to "....to send mail for free" and that "....adding an official's mail to the existing mailstream does not change the total fixed cost of the postal system for the taxpayer, and avoids reciprocal accounting transactions."
Neither of these seems to be correct.
The amount and type of mail permitted to be sent over a Member's signature is actually quite limited by total Dollar amount, to whom and when it may be sent (mass mailings can only go to addresses within a Members district and can't be sent within 60 or 90 days prior to an election), and other restrictions as to content, format, and even the size of pictures.
Such mail is not actually "free" either as the Congress makes annual appropriations to the USPS which fully cover the postage and costs of servicing these mails. The House and Senate Appropriations Committees, and subsequently the respective chambers, determine the amount to be appropriated for each of the two bodies and each Member receives an allotment from these appropriations which he/she can not exceed. In other words, the so called "Franking Privilege" is actually just a line item in the Member's office expense budget which can't be exceeded and on which there are significant limitations on how it can be used. The facsimile signature used to "frank" the mail is nothing more than a substitute for meter mail impression.
There appear to be a great many other details in the article (all of which are also unsourced) which I suspect are likely wrong as well although I have not researched them as yet. If you are interested in learning more about the Congressional "Franking Privilege" I invite you to look at the December, 2007, report number RL34247 of the Congressional Research Service entitled Franking Privilege: Historical Development and Options for Change which I intend to use quite extensively when I get around to revising this article. (It took me about three minutes to find this extensive and fascinating document with Google.)
Thanks for piqueing my curiosity on this topic. I think I am going to enjoy doing the research and fixing up this article. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 00:04, 20 July 2008 (UTC))
I see the overall definition of "franking" as follows:
Franking refers to the physical presence of any postage stamps, printed impressions, codings, labels, privileged signatures, and/or any other authorized forms of markings which were affixed or applied to qualify an item of mail to be postally serviced.
I would divide the types of franking into four categories:
There seem to be more than adequate verifiable sources and references to support each of these forms of franking, although I am unclear as to what your view may be on that as you were silent in your comments on my question as to what you mean by "esoteric unreliable sources" (see above), although I guess the Linn's article is not longer one of them. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 21:07, 21 July 2008 (UTC))
*Ensifera* ( Centpacrr ( talk) 16:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC))
...et etiam magis *ensifera* (quoque tardus iam) ( Centpacrr ( talk) 23:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC))
Well Centpacrr you have been WP:BOLD and went ahead with what you decided apparently ignoring what I wrote totally and not continuing the discussing any further. That is not consensus. You are of course correct that you have sources but using them you have turned this into a highly US-centric article. A worldview is what is necessary and we certainly don't have it here. While effectively all mail, that is pre-paid in some fashion, can be termed franked according to your definition, adding Official mail and Business reply mail as distinct categories within franking is not right - they are distinct classes of mail in their own right. And where is the franking machine mail you were talking about earlier. I don't think there is one link you added that is not a US one and despite my directing you on several occasions to the citation templates and how to cite references, you insist on just linking words from the text instead of making inline citations as is recommended or not using a template either. Unless you are going to redress the imbalance it should now be renamed "Franking in the United States! ww2censor ( talk) 21:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
*Ensifera* ( Centpacrr ( talk) 15:47, 24 July 2008 (UTC))
...et iterum etiam magis *ensifera* (quoque tardus iam) ( Centpacrr ( talk) 02:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC))
The article, as I see it, is only meant to provide a broad definition of what constitutes franking (i.e. "any device or marking such as postage stamps (including postal stationery), printed or stamped impressions, codings, labels, manuscript writings (including "privilege" signatures), and/or any other authorized form of markings affixed or applied to mail to qualify it to be postally serviced"), and to give some examples to illustrate how it is generally utilized and regulated by the world's postal systems. I never intended to also do a treatise on how franking may be regulated differently in and by each of the 191 member postal administrations of the Universal Postal Union, just to give some examples of the major types and methods of franking to help illustrate the overall concept. You are free, of course, to expand on those if you think that will make this clearer, or link to additional articles or external sites. After all I am not claiming "ownership" of the article, just contributing to the best of my ability what i hope might be of value with the expectation that others will do the same. (This also seems to me to be a much more efficient way to reach "consensus" as there is something concrete to consider.)
I know you have very set views on various styles and formatting particularly as they relate to sources, citations, and references. You are also about the 20th person that I have come across in Wikipedia that has offered such advice either directly to me, or whose advice to others I have read in the talk pages of various other articles. Every one of these folks has also had very set views on these matters -- and all of their views are different and often inconsistent. As there clearly seems to be no "consensus" on these matters of style and formatting, I have simply adopted what seems to me to work the best and provides the salient information. I understand that you have a different view, and so if you wish to tweak the formatting you are, of course, free to do that as well.
I really did not do much with the original "franking privilege" section except leave it in (and as it was) in the earlier article as I am not really particularly familiar with the early history of that type of frank. That is an area that is probably deficient and may need some expansion in the future. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 15:34, 25 July 2008 (UTC))
PS: I still have no idea exactly what you mean by (or consider to be) "esoteric unreliable sources" which you have never really explained (particularly in regard to documents and reports of the Universal Postal Union and the Congressional Research Service) so that would be a helpful start. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 16:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC))
Thanks, Mike. My view exactly. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 19:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC))
The covers in this image have indicia that says Official Paid - On Her Majesty's Service. They are not Official Business franking but essentially military free franking. Do the defintions of the various types of franking in the article adequately address these--Just a question. BTY - I can provide a nice image of a single instance of one of these if useful for the article.-- Mike Cline ( talk) 10:07, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Excellent, thanks Mike. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 21:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC))
In the Official Business paragraph the following phrase: designated as being for official business of a federal government is probably underinclusive. Federal has a very specific meaning as an adjective describing a government. Not all governments are federal and I suspect that Official Business franking is not unique to just federal governments. In fact the addition of the Official Paid language and image from Great Britain create some contradiction, because Great Britain does not have a federal government. I would remove the term federal and refer only to governments or postal authorities, unless the term federal is appropriate because you are refering to a specific federal government.-- Mike Cline ( talk) 13:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I have made some correction to the line stating that the President of Italy has a franking privilege (which in fact has been abolished in 1999), but I wonder if such an information goes here, shouldn't I simply delete it? 149.132.125.132 ( talk) 12:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
This article states the following with respect to the term "franking":
The phrase franking is derived from the Latin word "francus" meaning free. Another use of that term is speaking "frankly", i.e. "freely". Because Benjamin Franklin was an early United States Postmaster General, satirist Richard Armour referred to free congressional mailings as the "Franklin privilege"
The article Postage meter suggests (without explicitly stating so) that the term is derived from the name of the inventor of the Franking machine:
As early as 1884, a Norwegian, Engle Frankmussler (later anglisized to Edward Franks), obtained a British patent for a device that would print a “stamp” on an envelope and record the amount of postage by means of a counting device, or Franking machine, he presented this design at the 1886 Worlds Fair. Inventors in Germany, Norway, Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain pursued similar idea in the late 1800s, but nothing came to pass. [1]
A reader writing in to the Wikimedia Foundation notes that these seem contradictory. Can anyone help to clarify this etymology? -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 22:22, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
References
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Postage meter |
Franking is one of the largest advantages of incumbency, contributing to a very high reelection rate in the U.S. legislative branch.
That cannot possibly be true. The allocation of capital that goes to postage has got to be misicule! If there is no citation, we should remove it. Franking is a very minor perk of office. Rlove 23:47, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
What's the origin of the term 'franking'? Could be a useful addition to the article. -- Ianboggs 08:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
This part doesn't really make sense. Where are the references? What was the outcome?
"In the 19th century, as use of the post office increased significantly in Britain, it was expected that anybody with a Parliament connection would get his friends' mail franked." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.197.165.89 ( talk) 07:12, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
To use a franking machine a licence is required and only a few companies can supply franking machines. Is this something that need adding? -- Timsp83 ( talk) 20:56, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
A discussion of issues relating to the completeness, accuracy, and sourcing of this article can be found at User talk:Ww2censor#Franking article issues ( Centpacrr ( talk) 19:54, 20 July 2008 (UTC))
Franking article issues
Upon closer inspection of the Franking article I find that it is not only almost completely unsourced, it appears as if it may well also be almost completely wrong as well. The first section on the "Franking privilege," for instance, states that the privilege permits elected officials such as Members of Congress to "....to send mail for free" and that "....adding an official's mail to the existing mailstream does not change the total fixed cost of the postal system for the taxpayer, and avoids reciprocal accounting transactions."
Neither of these seems to be correct.
The amount and type of mail permitted to be sent over a Member's signature is actually quite limited by total Dollar amount, to whom and when it may be sent (mass mailings can only go to addresses within a Members district and can't be sent within 60 or 90 days prior to an election), and other restrictions as to content, format, and even the size of pictures.
Such mail is not actually "free" either as the Congress makes annual appropriations to the USPS which fully cover the postage and costs of servicing these mails. The House and Senate Appropriations Committees, and subsequently the respective chambers, determine the amount to be appropriated for each of the two bodies and each Member receives an allotment from these appropriations which he/she can not exceed. In other words, the so called "Franking Privilege" is actually just a line item in the Member's office expense budget which can't be exceeded and on which there are significant limitations on how it can be used. The facsimile signature used to "frank" the mail is nothing more than a substitute for meter mail impression.
There appear to be a great many other details in the article (all of which are also unsourced) which I suspect are likely wrong as well although I have not researched them as yet. If you are interested in learning more about the Congressional "Franking Privilege" I invite you to look at the December, 2007, report number RL34247 of the Congressional Research Service entitled Franking Privilege: Historical Development and Options for Change which I intend to use quite extensively when I get around to revising this article. (It took me about three minutes to find this extensive and fascinating document with Google.)
Thanks for piqueing my curiosity on this topic. I think I am going to enjoy doing the research and fixing up this article. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 00:04, 20 July 2008 (UTC))
I see the overall definition of "franking" as follows:
Franking refers to the physical presence of any postage stamps, printed impressions, codings, labels, privileged signatures, and/or any other authorized forms of markings which were affixed or applied to qualify an item of mail to be postally serviced.
I would divide the types of franking into four categories:
There seem to be more than adequate verifiable sources and references to support each of these forms of franking, although I am unclear as to what your view may be on that as you were silent in your comments on my question as to what you mean by "esoteric unreliable sources" (see above), although I guess the Linn's article is not longer one of them. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 21:07, 21 July 2008 (UTC))
*Ensifera* ( Centpacrr ( talk) 16:02, 22 July 2008 (UTC))
...et etiam magis *ensifera* (quoque tardus iam) ( Centpacrr ( talk) 23:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC))
Well Centpacrr you have been WP:BOLD and went ahead with what you decided apparently ignoring what I wrote totally and not continuing the discussing any further. That is not consensus. You are of course correct that you have sources but using them you have turned this into a highly US-centric article. A worldview is what is necessary and we certainly don't have it here. While effectively all mail, that is pre-paid in some fashion, can be termed franked according to your definition, adding Official mail and Business reply mail as distinct categories within franking is not right - they are distinct classes of mail in their own right. And where is the franking machine mail you were talking about earlier. I don't think there is one link you added that is not a US one and despite my directing you on several occasions to the citation templates and how to cite references, you insist on just linking words from the text instead of making inline citations as is recommended or not using a template either. Unless you are going to redress the imbalance it should now be renamed "Franking in the United States! ww2censor ( talk) 21:39, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
*Ensifera* ( Centpacrr ( talk) 15:47, 24 July 2008 (UTC))
...et iterum etiam magis *ensifera* (quoque tardus iam) ( Centpacrr ( talk) 02:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC))
The article, as I see it, is only meant to provide a broad definition of what constitutes franking (i.e. "any device or marking such as postage stamps (including postal stationery), printed or stamped impressions, codings, labels, manuscript writings (including "privilege" signatures), and/or any other authorized form of markings affixed or applied to mail to qualify it to be postally serviced"), and to give some examples to illustrate how it is generally utilized and regulated by the world's postal systems. I never intended to also do a treatise on how franking may be regulated differently in and by each of the 191 member postal administrations of the Universal Postal Union, just to give some examples of the major types and methods of franking to help illustrate the overall concept. You are free, of course, to expand on those if you think that will make this clearer, or link to additional articles or external sites. After all I am not claiming "ownership" of the article, just contributing to the best of my ability what i hope might be of value with the expectation that others will do the same. (This also seems to me to be a much more efficient way to reach "consensus" as there is something concrete to consider.)
I know you have very set views on various styles and formatting particularly as they relate to sources, citations, and references. You are also about the 20th person that I have come across in Wikipedia that has offered such advice either directly to me, or whose advice to others I have read in the talk pages of various other articles. Every one of these folks has also had very set views on these matters -- and all of their views are different and often inconsistent. As there clearly seems to be no "consensus" on these matters of style and formatting, I have simply adopted what seems to me to work the best and provides the salient information. I understand that you have a different view, and so if you wish to tweak the formatting you are, of course, free to do that as well.
I really did not do much with the original "franking privilege" section except leave it in (and as it was) in the earlier article as I am not really particularly familiar with the early history of that type of frank. That is an area that is probably deficient and may need some expansion in the future. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 15:34, 25 July 2008 (UTC))
PS: I still have no idea exactly what you mean by (or consider to be) "esoteric unreliable sources" which you have never really explained (particularly in regard to documents and reports of the Universal Postal Union and the Congressional Research Service) so that would be a helpful start. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 16:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC))
Thanks, Mike. My view exactly. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 19:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC))
The covers in this image have indicia that says Official Paid - On Her Majesty's Service. They are not Official Business franking but essentially military free franking. Do the defintions of the various types of franking in the article adequately address these--Just a question. BTY - I can provide a nice image of a single instance of one of these if useful for the article.-- Mike Cline ( talk) 10:07, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Excellent, thanks Mike. ( Centpacrr ( talk) 21:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC))
In the Official Business paragraph the following phrase: designated as being for official business of a federal government is probably underinclusive. Federal has a very specific meaning as an adjective describing a government. Not all governments are federal and I suspect that Official Business franking is not unique to just federal governments. In fact the addition of the Official Paid language and image from Great Britain create some contradiction, because Great Britain does not have a federal government. I would remove the term federal and refer only to governments or postal authorities, unless the term federal is appropriate because you are refering to a specific federal government.-- Mike Cline ( talk) 13:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I have made some correction to the line stating that the President of Italy has a franking privilege (which in fact has been abolished in 1999), but I wonder if such an information goes here, shouldn't I simply delete it? 149.132.125.132 ( talk) 12:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
This article states the following with respect to the term "franking":
The phrase franking is derived from the Latin word "francus" meaning free. Another use of that term is speaking "frankly", i.e. "freely". Because Benjamin Franklin was an early United States Postmaster General, satirist Richard Armour referred to free congressional mailings as the "Franklin privilege"
The article Postage meter suggests (without explicitly stating so) that the term is derived from the name of the inventor of the Franking machine:
As early as 1884, a Norwegian, Engle Frankmussler (later anglisized to Edward Franks), obtained a British patent for a device that would print a “stamp” on an envelope and record the amount of postage by means of a counting device, or Franking machine, he presented this design at the 1886 Worlds Fair. Inventors in Germany, Norway, Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain pursued similar idea in the late 1800s, but nothing came to pass. [1]
A reader writing in to the Wikimedia Foundation notes that these seem contradictory. Can anyone help to clarify this etymology? -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 22:22, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
References
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