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Not only is the following literary review out of place in a biographical article, but the review itself violates Wikipedia's NPOV as it ascribes an opinion to a deceased author.
It seems unlikely that Orwell would have approved of many of the uses to which his pseudonym is applied. The loose definition of the term and the often poor correlation between the real-life situations people describe as Orwellian and his own dystopian fiction leave the use of the adjective at best inexact and frequently politically inaccurate. In his essay " Politics and the English Language", Orwell derides the use of cliché and dying metaphors, which "even think your thoughts for you, to a certain extent" and goes on to say "But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought."
In many of his essays and letters Orwell criticised words with formally precise definitions being used badly and the vague slide in meaning for many of these words. He was a fierce critic of Fascism but he would freely mock the promiscuous use of the word:
I don't know if the author of this passage was quoting a book by Frank Luntz verbatim or summarizing a passage from it, but Luntz's opinion's of the term "Orwellian" should only be discussed here in purely descriptive, past tense language as opinion's belonging to Luntz. Waxsin ( talk) 20:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
This is one of the more divisive figures in American politics today, and this article casts him a completely positive light. Even the criticism is quite weak. There is no mention of the more accurate criticisms that he purposely obscures the meaning of phrases in order to frame them in the most positive way for his viewpoint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryanfrei ( talk • contribs) 20:36, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
I like some of the changes that have taken place since I posted this complaint, esp. by A.T.S. in Texas, and if no one has any problems with it, I would like to take off the NPOV marker. Ryanfrei ( talk) 19:30, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
One of Frank Luntz most famous PR acheivements is reframing the term "estate tax" as "death tax." Surely this needs to be mentioned here. Can someone with more knowledge of the topic please add that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rusl ( talk • contribs) 18:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Under "Use of language," added a paragraph and an extended quotation concerning Luntz's role in promoting the phrase "death tax" and other coinages. A.T.S. in Texas ( talk) 06:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
I removed the language in the page under Luntz' claim of having invented the phrase "death tax" after a recent interview came out on NPR with Yale Law School's Michael Graetz for his book Death by a Thousand Cuts: The Fight Over Taxing Inherited Wealth. Specifically, "in the 1940s, Graetz says that opponents started labeling it the "death tax" in a bid to gain wider support for the repeal movement." Since Luntz was born in 1962, it seems unlikely that he created the phrase. I did leave the language about him possibly popularizing the phrase, but this might be questionable also.
How We Got From Estate Tax To 'Death Tax' by Wright Bryan, National Public Radio December 15, 2010 http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/npr.php?id=132031116
.
I was a recent particpant in a presidential debate focus group run by Luntz and I can tell you with all honesty that it was totally manipulated and a fraud. It served no purpose whatsoever in judging the candidates because only the ones who said what Frank liked were promoted while people like me were censored. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.138.56 ( talk) 20:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I was also a participant at one of his focus group sessions about eleven-twelve years ago in Delaware when the guy was a nobody. I could not believe what crap it was. It was like Jerry Springer-lite. The topic was education reform and while I actually agreed with his point politically, it was really clear he had no interest in an objective survey. Oxford gave this guy a doctorate? Gave Rachel Maddow one too? What the hell anyways..? -- Drunkencorgimaster ( talk) 23:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I knew Frank at Oxford, and to be honest we were all a bit surprised that they DID give him his doctorate. He never seemed to actually do any work, spending most of his time politicking...but somehow he actually managed to submit a thesis (apparently entirely researched and written during a visit to the US) and get a degree. Someone should maybe get a look at his thesis in the Bodleian Library -- perhaps the title and subject should be included in the article? Also, it may be worth including that he was at Trinity College. There is a page listing notable (ie wiki-included) people who attended Oxford U, but Luntz isn't on it, and I couldn't figure out how to edit the page to include the cross-reference. -- Veryfluffy ( talk) 12:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Wow. Your comments are very interesting to say the least. For the record, I actually kinda like Maddow, she just does not strike me as the oxbridge type. But hey, that's my fault for stereotyping. -- Drunkencorgimaster ( talk) 01:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
We have a problem.How do we get to the facts? The best measure of Doctor Luntz is his own words. The archives of Frontline and Now contain interviews with the good doctor. In my research I made a strange discovery. My desk was covered with the transcript of an interview with Joseph Goebbels. When I opened Doctor Luntz's interview I could no longer tell who was speaking without looking at the top of the page. I'm serious, do it some time. You cannot tell the difference. Ron Giles
People please stop ruining wiki for the rest of us. If you want to rant do to it with your friends i was hoping to get some info from this page, but now I really cant thanks a whole bunch The Isiah 18:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
The first part of this article is from the Luntz.com bio of Dr. Luntz. The second part is just copied from SourceWatch. Is there anything novel to this that people can add?
I was too hasty in making my last revert, and wrote "rv copyvio again", assuming that the anonymous user had again inserted the copied Luntz bio. Instead, s/he had inserted an irrelevant discussion of gays in the military. Neither is appropriate for the article. RadicalSubversiv E 06:09, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This article seems to present a very positive image of Frank Luntz. I go to a fairly liberal school, and have heard more bad than good about the man. Also, it seems that in the past people have attempted to add information about some of the darker aspects of the man, and all that remains is a single sentence at the very bottom of the article, practically mentioning off-hand that this stellar individual was accused by the AAPOR for violating standards of ethics. I'll admit, i don't know too much about frank luntz, but I feel asthough the presentation I'm being given is fairly biased. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if he had a hand in editing his article. 134.173.121.223 02:04, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
It appears that many would-be editors of this article feel strongly that Luntz's defense was "unbelievable". Please note that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a personal soapbox. We are not here to report on what we think. If you can find a link from back then, of someone from Penn saying quote "We couldn't believe what Frank said" or the like, then we can include the claim. Otherwise the claim violates Wikipedia's No Original Research policy, not to mention failing to present a Neutral Point of View and I must continue to remove it. Ask any admin, I'm certain they'll agree with me.
Do I personally find Luntz's claim "unbelievable"? Yes. But so what?! - I wasn't there, and furthermore this encyclopedia isn't about my personal opinion, or yours. Respectfully, Kasreyn 17:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
No problem, I removed the girlfriend reference. I was at Penn and had personal dealings with Frank and assure you the guy DIDN'T have a girlfriend even though he used this as his excuse for violating UA campaign practices at the time.
This guy has been a scumbag since his days at Penn. The guy "rigged" the results of a 1984 freshman UA vote, counting the votes behind closed doors BY HIMSELF and he hasn't looked back since, doing the same with his "polling". He should be taken out and shot, IMHO. TH 3/23/06
Rather than remove, requesting verifcation of the assertions made above in "Scumbag" post
Mattjans 21:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)mattjans
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Frank_Luntz
I guess we'll try again?? It must be nice to be a NEW admin.... Tom 17:56, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Why was this WHOLE PAGE NUKED?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.252.82.127 ( talk • contribs) {{{2}}}.
Please stop reverting my edits. They are sourced now. The page is a description of a TV program, which is why you see nothing on the page. You'll have to get off the internet to see his interview, at 3 minutes 50 seconds in from the beginning (among other places). Please stop reverting, threeafterthree, or this page will always be a stub. Thank you. Brianski 21:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Maybe someone should review this broadcast and edit the phrase "When offered the chance to redefine "Orwellian," Luntz, flummoxed, is unable to provide an answer." In the interview, he redefines "Orwellian" as the opposite of the meaning to which it is generally understood, i.e. that it means clearly and unsubjectively written, such as the style of writing promoted by Orwell himself.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.80.81.193 ( talk • contribs) 22:37, 9 January 2007
I've nominated the "Use of language" for a POV check. The rest of the article seems pretty fact-based and neutral, the 1st and 2nd paragraphs of this section are ok. But the 3rd paragraph (added after 05:50, January 10, 2007 by HughGRex) presents a problem. Its first sentence reads:
However, within a few minutes he contradicts himself when discussing "energy exploration" (oil drilling).
That and extended exchange with NPR host are, to me, unnecessary.— Mobius 08:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Agreed that this should be reviewed for POV. Examples of anti-Luntz leaning language include...
"On C-SPAN's "Afterwords" program on January 29, 2007, Luntz again attempted to illustrate the value of his "deep sea energy exploration" euphemism saying..." 'Attempt' should be removed. One defends or not...attempt assumes that he didn't. Whether it was convincing is a point of view.
"However, within a few minutes he contradicts himself when discussing "energy exploration" (oil drilling). His research on the matter involved showing people a picture of current oil drilling and asking if in the picture it "looks like exploration or drilling." " This sounds like clarification, not contradiction of self. What's the metric for contradiction? POV
Many references to his conservative attachments which taken as a whole go beyond simple description, particularly since any analysis of his book or other research work are not listed.
No listing of his research company http://www.luntz.com/ or any non-political work he does.
Mattjans 21:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)mattjans
Echoing previous comments - 4th and 5th paragraphs in "Use of language" section make unsourced/verified assertions. In particular the 5th which quotes something from MMS (whatever that is). Pending some discussion on this topic I plan on removing the offending language.— Mobius 08:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
This Luntz guy is a cunt. What is written in this entry portrays a man who had the tools available (through his unique position as a an adviser and political strategist) to deceive voters and discredit the established research of hundreds of career scientists around the world. Now, he was not alone since the media swallowed his propaganda hook, line and sinker and ignored the hundreds of scientists around the world. His words about believing in it now and "at the time" with the available data he made the right decision is ludicrous. Don't let him get away with it. He is a master of lying to people and will trick anyone of you again. Don't be fooled into defending him on NPOV grounds. An analysis of his words and actions at the time, along with his motive and intent to deceive the public are on the record. Still, if the average American is so apathetic or ignorant as to vote and be swayed by this lying, then what can be done if they breed like rabbits?-ZERO00
I noticed that while there is an external link to the " Luntz Memo" on the main page, it's not mentioned at all in the article. That's a little odd -- a came across a mention of the memo in this Globe and Mail article, which referred to it as the "now-infamous 2003 memo." It's essentially a guide for how Republicans should phrase environmental discussions, especially when it involved global warming. I have little interest in this Luntz wiki, but I thought I ought to point this out. FYI. -BC aka Callmebc 15:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed alot of the family unsourced material. Birthdates for parents is not needed. Also, if father is as notable as mentioned, mayne he should have his own article(no I do not want to write it, thank you very much)? -- Tom 17:41, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
This is my first attempt to contribute so bear with me.
Diane Rehms interviewed Mr. Luntz on WAMU. WAMU is an NPR affiliate in Washington, D.C.
The interview is available in the archives: http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/07/02/01.php#12645
Frank seems to own up to the "death tax" phrase in the interview. So if I knew how I would fix the first citation needed in the Use of Language section, I would.
Ms. Rehms takes Mr. Luntz to task several times for evading questions.
IMO, the last caller to the show categorically rebuts Mr. Luntz's arguement for calling it a death tax. Luntz is saved by the bell.
I find the above reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels educational. I liked it better when the follow up pointed out Goebbells was a Nazi.
RufusBugleWeed 20:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I saw Frank Luntz on TV and they mentioned he worked for Bill CLinton. Is this true? If so this should be included because the article focuses on his work for George Bush. JettaMann 02:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Ding, dong, cleaning service. This article seems to be bloating with unsourced material again. Can sources be used going forward? Thanks, -- Tom 00:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
If youtube was a RS then you could watch it and see for yourself what was said as that episode is on it. A problem is that RS's don't like to report negatively on their own people. Lots of other sources claim (with video evidence) that Luntz lectures the poll groups before they vote to sway opinion and that some people are appearing in more than one "randomly selected" group. Wayne ( talk) 03:52, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
An IP keeps adding large block of unsourced, original resaerch sounding material to the article which I keep reverting. IP, if you can provide sources here, they can be reviewed here and the community can decide if the material is worthy of inclusion. Anyways, -- Tom 19:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Should it be "lede" or "lead" section? I thought it was lead but I keep seeing lede?? Anyways, I have removed the material about Luntz shaping talking points for the repubs since it seems to be sythnesis of the cited source. Can the lead be crafted here and then added? Thanks in advance, -- Tom 17:31, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Should his toupee be referenced? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.246.140.21 ( talk) 01:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't have an opinion about this guy, but the editors certainly appear to. While some of the article is neutral, the editors clearly take pains to set up and then contradict Mr. Luntz. Some of the comments on the talk page clearly display a level of vitriol that seems inappropriate. Perhaps the original article was too positive, but the pendulum has clearly swung too far the other way. By all means point out controversies, but this is not the appropriate forum for a one-sided dissection of the man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.96.132.86 ( talk) 17:50, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
While introducing a panel on the results of Obama's joint meeting with Democrats and Republican leaders, Mr. Luntz said that the Philadelphia hospital was the first in america. WRONG. The first hospital was built in the 1611 Citie of Henricus in Virginia. It was called Mount Malady, or Mount Malado. It could house 40 sick or injured men, sleeping them two-to-a-bed. This early hospital was a vst improvement over the crowded, filthy English hospitals of the time.
While introducing a panel on the results of Obama's joint meeting with Democrats and Republican leaders, Mr. Luntz said that the Philadelphia hospital was the first in america. WRONG. The first hospital was built in the 1611 Citie of Henricus in Virginia. It was called Mount Malady, or Mount Malado. It could house 40 sick or injured men, sleeping them two-to-a-bed. This early hospital was a vst improvement over the crowded, filthy English hospitals of the time.
While introducing a panel on the results of Obama's joint meeting with Democrats and Republican leaders, Mr. Luntz said that the Philadelphia hospital was the first in
america. WRONG. The first hospital was built in the 1611 Citie of Henricus in Virginia. It was called Mount Malady, or Mount Malado. It could house 40 sick or injured men, sleeping them two-to-a-bed. This early hospital was a vst improvement over the crowded, filthy English hospitals of the time. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
72.82.45.175 (
talk)
14:49, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
For one, you don't have to post it three times. For another, you have mischaracterized Luntz' statement. He said that the Pennsylvania Hospital was the first hospital that Benjamin Franklin had established. That statement is correct. However, Pennsylvania Hospital bills itself as the Nation's First Hospital. You might want to take issue with Pennsylvania Hospital.--
65.202.227.123 (
talk)
16:25, 26 February 2010 (UTC)mjd
Livedash (
http://www.livedash.com/transcript/hannity/64/FNC/Thursday_February_25_2010/158334/) quotes Luntz on Fox (Hannity) stating: "We came to philadelphia for a reason this is the home of the first hospital created by ben franklin more than 200 years ago." This statement is completely correct. What is incorrect? The OP's claim that Luntz stated Pennsylvania Hospital was the first hospital in America is incorrect. Lunts didn't claim that. That a claim was made for something called "Philadelphia Hospital" is incorrect, no one said that and there is no hospital named "Philadelphia Hospital". Furthermore, Mount Malady was the first *English* hospital in the New World - not in America. Construction of the first hospital in the New World was completed in 1519 in Santo Domingo. Hernan Cortez founded two separate hospitals in the New World - and died in 1547, over 60 years before Mount Malady. Hotel-Dieu de Québec was founded in 1639 in Quebec by the Augustinians and is still in operation. Mount Malady ceased operation as a hospital LONG before the birth of the nation in which it's rebuilt structure now resides, so Pennsylvania Hospital's claim to be the *Nation's* First Hospital is also quite honest and correct. When one also realizes that Luntz' claim was clearly made on 25 February and not 26 February, as originally claimed (see the posting time/date of the original post and reference to health care summit - the OP couldn't have been referring to a 26 February segment or one earlier than 25 February even if such a segment took place) the only part of the original claim that seems to hold any water wrt/Luntz whatsoever is that Frank Luntz appeared on Fox even if the claim for the date of appearance was incorrect.
In light of this evidence, I strongly recommend that the owner/editor of this page remove the two earlier copies of this subtopic and take no further action on it.
I also recommend in light of this and other poorly supported criticisms (as detailed in the following subtopic) that the main page be critically read for unfounded/unsupported criticisms of Luntz and that all such found be removed
--
96.255.159.197 (
talk)
19:18, 27 February 2010 (UTC)mjd
Frank Luntz is correctly quoted as saying:
"In Katrina, not a single drop of oil spilled in the Gulf of Mexico from the rigs themselves."
It is then stated that his "contention is shown to be false by the Minerals Management Service report which found that Hurricanes Katrina and Rita caused 124 offshore spills for a total of 743,700 gallons. 554,400 gallons were crude oil and condensate from platforms, rigs and pipelines, and 189,000 gallons were refined products from platforms and rigs."
This is remarkably bad logic. Frank Luntz was clear to limit his statement to rigs only and only during Katrina and someone asserts he is wrong by making a statement regarding platforms, rigs, and pipelines combined and for hurricanes Katrina and Rita combined. That fails the simplest of logical tests. In reviewing the report the only further narrowing of the data seem to be a clear statement that for Katrina *only* ~5500 barrels of petroleum products of all kinds were spilled from platforms and rigs combined. As far as I could tell from my admittedly brief assessment of the report there is no indication of how much oil was spilled from rig *only* during Katrina *only*. If that number is in this report or is available frmo another source then that number should be quoted and not this number that only indirectly responds to the original statement. I'll be the first to say that the evidence as presented might seem to seggest that Luntz' statement is false, but there's a big difference between *might* and *actually does*. If his statement can't be shown as false then there should be no discussion of it and I request this discussion be removed.--
65.202.227.176 (
talk)
16:43, 26 February 2010 (UTC)mjd
The Main Page has been updated since this issue has been reported. Please follow Wikipedia policies immediately: "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately"--
96.255.159.197 (
talk)
03:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)mjd
Per suggestion I removed the paragraph referred to. I was hoping that whoever placed the original material there would either provide a logically consistent reference that supports the original argument or remove the material themselves. If the original poster can provide documented support for their position please repost the material.--
96.255.159.197 (
talk)
01:39, 12 March 2010 (UTC)mjd
The External Link "Frank Luntz Interview" (
http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1414) does not resolve to an actual link of an interview with Frank Luntz but is not found and resolves to the CBC main page. Unless this can be corrected the link should be removed.
--
96.255.159.197 (
talk)
19:36, 27 February 2010 (UTC)mjd
Not true at all. By the time Luntz made that comment, climate science had solidified its consensus for more than a decade. Naomi Oreskes calls Luntz out on this. It's not just a false statement, it deliberately ignores the scientific consensus that was in place when Luntz made his recommendation. The dates don't lie. Viriditas ( talk) 23:10, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
The "Information Clearing House" article being used as a citation to support Luntz's involvement in that memo does not mention Luntz's name at all. Therefore, per WP:BLP, since that assertion is disputed and is not supported by a reliable source, it should not be put back into the article unless such a source can be found. -- Demiurge1000 ( talk) 16:28, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
None of the accolades listed in this section are sourced. While unsourced positive content is less of a problem than unsourced negative content, if sources can't be found for them, they should be removed. Robofish ( talk) 00:39, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
In an interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMFYM5GOyL0 (first 40s) he says "Oxford - Mississippi" where there is also an university( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Mississippi). Maybe this was a joke, maybe not. So any proof he got a PhD from Oxford, UK? Nabrufa ( talk) 02:18, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
I removed the subsection "Leaked tape from the University of Pennsylvania" under "Criticism" with the comment: "Removed Penn leak from Criticism. The notability of the story is in Luntz's views, not in the reaction against them."
9711CA reverted my change with the comment: "These are documented facts found in credible sources. Irrespective of subjective opinion, the are no less objective truths report in multiple sources."
9711CA, we can have a discussion about the notability of this section, but the fact that statements are "objectively true" or "reported in multiple credible sources" doesn't automatically make them worthy of inclusion. Per WP:NOTEVERYTHING, information cannot be included solely for being true; a subject must be treated with appropriate weight. As I wrote in my comment, it's Luntz's views themselves that are noteworthy, rather than a couple of opinions by conservative commentators. Washington D.C. is a massive echo chamber. If we included the (verifiably true) reactions by everyone about everything then every page in the Politics WikiProject would be 10 times as long. As editors it's our job not only to seek out the truth but to separate the wheat from the chaff. -- Nstrauss ( talk) 06:39, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
This was included as a subsection of "Criticism." This was a news story which was covered very well by both conservative and liberal news sources. Luntz was literally criticized, and criticized by many sources even of opposing views. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 9711CA ( talk • contribs) 06:46, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone agree that the article should have POV and advert tags, as DGG added? Olorinish ( talk) 19:24, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
OMG!!!! This is both terrible and hilarious, DGG! The talk page is making me giggle, e.g. "He's such a cunt", Goebbels comparison, University of Oxford in Mississippi v. UK, the toupee! The article itself is brutal. I have thought liberals under the Obama Administration excelled at changing or co-opting words, e,g, disruption, sharing economy, self-branding and pay it forward (formerly known as indentured servitude), but Mr. Luntz is the master. Still, this BLP is kind of...appalling!-- FeralOink ( talk) 14:32, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I've removed the advert tag (but kept the POV tag). I don't see anything in the article that "sounds like advertisements." (See Template:advert.) From the discussion above this really sounds like a balance, quotefarm, and attribution issue. All of which are important, but calling them "advertising" is a distraction. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 17:46, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
This article is flagged for sounding like a press release or an advertisement, and I agree. Luntz is primarily notable for his tenure with the W. administration, and his involvement in shaping the "death tax" messaging. His Warhol moment needs to be more prominent than whatever he's doing lately. That is, after all, how history works. — MaxEnt 20:32, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Can someone find out the title of Frank Luntz's dissertation at Oxford? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.89.54.202 ( talk) 03:06, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
"Candidates, Consultants, and Modern Campaign Technology" http://solo.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/permalink/f/g40bsg/oxfaleph011311797 Johannes der Taucher ( talk) 21:31, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
Luntz's involvement in the Israel Project was recently added to the article. Shortly thereafter Santasa99 added it to the lead section. I reverted per WP:LEAD and WP:UNDUE. Santasa99 then re-reverted with the comment: "Fortunately, per WP:UNDUE & WP:LEAD, edit is more then sufficiently notable for lead as well as for section, even separate article exist on the issue & it's linked duly."
I have no doubt that this subject is sufficiently notable for the article, but why it deserves mention in the lead while none of Luntz's other (very notable) projects are included there is not at all apparent. (And it's incorrect that Luntz's contribution to the Israel Project has its own article. It has a single paragraph supported by a single secondary source.) -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 17:39, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
First, Dr.Fleischman's deletion and consequent objection obviously isn't intended in "good faith", since he already implying something only he see - where exactly he see my claim about article on Luntz and his involvement in Israel Project ?!? I said that article exists on "the issue", which means article on Israel Project and its affiliated ventures, among which is Luntz's "Israel Project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary" !
Secondly, Malerooster should change the lead, or as he said, even completely remove these info on Israel Project from the lead, only if he's willing to rewrite this important information in a separate new section in this article. Otherwise his argument that leaving this edit in the lead would forced us to add many more information is bogus and pretty transparently fallacious reasoning. The lead of this article already contains few other similar information, so adding this one doesn't force anyone adding anything else ! Besides, who is to decide what should or should not be part of the lead, and like in this case, how many specific examples and information should be put in the lead !? On top of that, this particular information (Luntz involvement in Israel Project and authoring of "Dictionary) is extremely important and very much notable, but it's even more interesting, since it provoked worldwide controversy, and response from very notable news organizations, NGO's, and organizations following different kind of activities in and around media, freedom of press, etc.
Third, Dr.Fleischman's claim that this issue in the Israel Project article is covered JUST in section-passage, and referenced with JUST one reference is also very much absurd and untrue - first, what else he expect, section is quite enough; second, it's untrue that there's just one reference in that section, there's at least two, but probably three: Newsweek, Israel Project, and Independent, but just Google it and you can choose from multitudes of articles and reports from mainstream media to relevant organizations, since issue is still highly controversial and invoke huge attention all around.
Bottom line is that nobody should engage in an attempt to marginalize or even hide this Luntz's study, which resulted in publication of "Global Language Dictionary" for Israeli government, although project itself was intended to be absolutely secrete, with every page labelled with "Not for distribution or publication". But what can you do, it's no secret, not anymore, it's out there, Newsweek was among first to brake this to the public, following with many other media outlets worldwide. You can even download entire booklet from Israel Project website !-- Santasa99 ( talk) 03:03, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
First you deleted my edit, with simple reasoning, but extremely insufficient one - "not notable" enough. Meanwhile, your stance has since changed, you appended some arguments - and that's good - mine too, as I said, and you completely disregarded that part, I'm not against moving it from the lead to new section, where other engagements and works are mentioned. Actually I will move it myself, as soon as possible. (However, I'm really puzzled that you decided to completely omit important fact that I actually agreed, in my first reply, to move edit from the lead to section !? Which takes me to "good/bad faith" issue - when person twist, spin, omit, or completely pull things (words, sentences or meaning of what other person supposedly have said) out of thin air, that pretty much constitute action contrary to WP:AGF.)
Trouble with Wikipedia, among many troubles which poison this encyclopedia, is in its contributors who are bringing in their emotions and feelings with them, not to mention national, ethnic, cultural, religious, and in particular political and ideological prejudices - basically, Malerooster, when one shares feeling with another contributor on some issue, that doesn't mean that they are more right or right at all. Same goes for shared opinion. -- Santasa99 ( talk) 16:28, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
It only embarrasses Wikipedia to leave out the ONE document for which Luntz is most famous
The PDF file is widely taught on college campuses, and was key to changing language for decades. Try https://www.sourcewatch.org/images/4/45/LuntzResearch.Memo.pdf
Does Wikipedia really want to exclude this one page from the 16 page briefing document?
Also some text mention is on the waybackmachine - it smells like there may have been a campaign to remove the text of this very influential document. Time to grow up on this one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpauli ( talk • contribs) 17:36, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Creating a section for posterity on recent interest by editors (such as @ Feran:) on Luntz's sexuality. According to this 2014 Atlantic profile, Luntz explicitly said he was straight. However, this 2017 Logo TV article makes a passing mention that he is gay. Looking to aggregate more information/discourse here before adding anything to the article about his sexuality (if that's even necessary as he appears to be a private man?) — BriefEdits ( talk) 03:17, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
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Not only is the following literary review out of place in a biographical article, but the review itself violates Wikipedia's NPOV as it ascribes an opinion to a deceased author.
It seems unlikely that Orwell would have approved of many of the uses to which his pseudonym is applied. The loose definition of the term and the often poor correlation between the real-life situations people describe as Orwellian and his own dystopian fiction leave the use of the adjective at best inexact and frequently politically inaccurate. In his essay " Politics and the English Language", Orwell derides the use of cliché and dying metaphors, which "even think your thoughts for you, to a certain extent" and goes on to say "But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought."
In many of his essays and letters Orwell criticised words with formally precise definitions being used badly and the vague slide in meaning for many of these words. He was a fierce critic of Fascism but he would freely mock the promiscuous use of the word:
I don't know if the author of this passage was quoting a book by Frank Luntz verbatim or summarizing a passage from it, but Luntz's opinion's of the term "Orwellian" should only be discussed here in purely descriptive, past tense language as opinion's belonging to Luntz. Waxsin ( talk) 20:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
This is one of the more divisive figures in American politics today, and this article casts him a completely positive light. Even the criticism is quite weak. There is no mention of the more accurate criticisms that he purposely obscures the meaning of phrases in order to frame them in the most positive way for his viewpoint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryanfrei ( talk • contribs) 20:36, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
I like some of the changes that have taken place since I posted this complaint, esp. by A.T.S. in Texas, and if no one has any problems with it, I would like to take off the NPOV marker. Ryanfrei ( talk) 19:30, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
One of Frank Luntz most famous PR acheivements is reframing the term "estate tax" as "death tax." Surely this needs to be mentioned here. Can someone with more knowledge of the topic please add that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rusl ( talk • contribs) 18:26, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
Under "Use of language," added a paragraph and an extended quotation concerning Luntz's role in promoting the phrase "death tax" and other coinages. A.T.S. in Texas ( talk) 06:13, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
I removed the language in the page under Luntz' claim of having invented the phrase "death tax" after a recent interview came out on NPR with Yale Law School's Michael Graetz for his book Death by a Thousand Cuts: The Fight Over Taxing Inherited Wealth. Specifically, "in the 1940s, Graetz says that opponents started labeling it the "death tax" in a bid to gain wider support for the repeal movement." Since Luntz was born in 1962, it seems unlikely that he created the phrase. I did leave the language about him possibly popularizing the phrase, but this might be questionable also.
How We Got From Estate Tax To 'Death Tax' by Wright Bryan, National Public Radio December 15, 2010 http://minnesota.publicradio.org/features/npr.php?id=132031116
.
I was a recent particpant in a presidential debate focus group run by Luntz and I can tell you with all honesty that it was totally manipulated and a fraud. It served no purpose whatsoever in judging the candidates because only the ones who said what Frank liked were promoted while people like me were censored. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.138.56 ( talk) 20:00, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I was also a participant at one of his focus group sessions about eleven-twelve years ago in Delaware when the guy was a nobody. I could not believe what crap it was. It was like Jerry Springer-lite. The topic was education reform and while I actually agreed with his point politically, it was really clear he had no interest in an objective survey. Oxford gave this guy a doctorate? Gave Rachel Maddow one too? What the hell anyways..? -- Drunkencorgimaster ( talk) 23:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I knew Frank at Oxford, and to be honest we were all a bit surprised that they DID give him his doctorate. He never seemed to actually do any work, spending most of his time politicking...but somehow he actually managed to submit a thesis (apparently entirely researched and written during a visit to the US) and get a degree. Someone should maybe get a look at his thesis in the Bodleian Library -- perhaps the title and subject should be included in the article? Also, it may be worth including that he was at Trinity College. There is a page listing notable (ie wiki-included) people who attended Oxford U, but Luntz isn't on it, and I couldn't figure out how to edit the page to include the cross-reference. -- Veryfluffy ( talk) 12:24, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Wow. Your comments are very interesting to say the least. For the record, I actually kinda like Maddow, she just does not strike me as the oxbridge type. But hey, that's my fault for stereotyping. -- Drunkencorgimaster ( talk) 01:57, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
We have a problem.How do we get to the facts? The best measure of Doctor Luntz is his own words. The archives of Frontline and Now contain interviews with the good doctor. In my research I made a strange discovery. My desk was covered with the transcript of an interview with Joseph Goebbels. When I opened Doctor Luntz's interview I could no longer tell who was speaking without looking at the top of the page. I'm serious, do it some time. You cannot tell the difference. Ron Giles
People please stop ruining wiki for the rest of us. If you want to rant do to it with your friends i was hoping to get some info from this page, but now I really cant thanks a whole bunch The Isiah 18:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
The first part of this article is from the Luntz.com bio of Dr. Luntz. The second part is just copied from SourceWatch. Is there anything novel to this that people can add?
I was too hasty in making my last revert, and wrote "rv copyvio again", assuming that the anonymous user had again inserted the copied Luntz bio. Instead, s/he had inserted an irrelevant discussion of gays in the military. Neither is appropriate for the article. RadicalSubversiv E 06:09, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This article seems to present a very positive image of Frank Luntz. I go to a fairly liberal school, and have heard more bad than good about the man. Also, it seems that in the past people have attempted to add information about some of the darker aspects of the man, and all that remains is a single sentence at the very bottom of the article, practically mentioning off-hand that this stellar individual was accused by the AAPOR for violating standards of ethics. I'll admit, i don't know too much about frank luntz, but I feel asthough the presentation I'm being given is fairly biased. In fact, I wouldn't be too surprised if he had a hand in editing his article. 134.173.121.223 02:04, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
It appears that many would-be editors of this article feel strongly that Luntz's defense was "unbelievable". Please note that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a personal soapbox. We are not here to report on what we think. If you can find a link from back then, of someone from Penn saying quote "We couldn't believe what Frank said" or the like, then we can include the claim. Otherwise the claim violates Wikipedia's No Original Research policy, not to mention failing to present a Neutral Point of View and I must continue to remove it. Ask any admin, I'm certain they'll agree with me.
Do I personally find Luntz's claim "unbelievable"? Yes. But so what?! - I wasn't there, and furthermore this encyclopedia isn't about my personal opinion, or yours. Respectfully, Kasreyn 17:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
No problem, I removed the girlfriend reference. I was at Penn and had personal dealings with Frank and assure you the guy DIDN'T have a girlfriend even though he used this as his excuse for violating UA campaign practices at the time.
This guy has been a scumbag since his days at Penn. The guy "rigged" the results of a 1984 freshman UA vote, counting the votes behind closed doors BY HIMSELF and he hasn't looked back since, doing the same with his "polling". He should be taken out and shot, IMHO. TH 3/23/06
Rather than remove, requesting verifcation of the assertions made above in "Scumbag" post
Mattjans 21:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)mattjans
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Frank_Luntz
I guess we'll try again?? It must be nice to be a NEW admin.... Tom 17:56, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Why was this WHOLE PAGE NUKED?! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.252.82.127 ( talk • contribs) {{{2}}}.
Please stop reverting my edits. They are sourced now. The page is a description of a TV program, which is why you see nothing on the page. You'll have to get off the internet to see his interview, at 3 minutes 50 seconds in from the beginning (among other places). Please stop reverting, threeafterthree, or this page will always be a stub. Thank you. Brianski 21:58, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Maybe someone should review this broadcast and edit the phrase "When offered the chance to redefine "Orwellian," Luntz, flummoxed, is unable to provide an answer." In the interview, he redefines "Orwellian" as the opposite of the meaning to which it is generally understood, i.e. that it means clearly and unsubjectively written, such as the style of writing promoted by Orwell himself.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.80.81.193 ( talk • contribs) 22:37, 9 January 2007
I've nominated the "Use of language" for a POV check. The rest of the article seems pretty fact-based and neutral, the 1st and 2nd paragraphs of this section are ok. But the 3rd paragraph (added after 05:50, January 10, 2007 by HughGRex) presents a problem. Its first sentence reads:
However, within a few minutes he contradicts himself when discussing "energy exploration" (oil drilling).
That and extended exchange with NPR host are, to me, unnecessary.— Mobius 08:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Agreed that this should be reviewed for POV. Examples of anti-Luntz leaning language include...
"On C-SPAN's "Afterwords" program on January 29, 2007, Luntz again attempted to illustrate the value of his "deep sea energy exploration" euphemism saying..." 'Attempt' should be removed. One defends or not...attempt assumes that he didn't. Whether it was convincing is a point of view.
"However, within a few minutes he contradicts himself when discussing "energy exploration" (oil drilling). His research on the matter involved showing people a picture of current oil drilling and asking if in the picture it "looks like exploration or drilling." " This sounds like clarification, not contradiction of self. What's the metric for contradiction? POV
Many references to his conservative attachments which taken as a whole go beyond simple description, particularly since any analysis of his book or other research work are not listed.
No listing of his research company http://www.luntz.com/ or any non-political work he does.
Mattjans 21:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)mattjans
Echoing previous comments - 4th and 5th paragraphs in "Use of language" section make unsourced/verified assertions. In particular the 5th which quotes something from MMS (whatever that is). Pending some discussion on this topic I plan on removing the offending language.— Mobius 08:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
This Luntz guy is a cunt. What is written in this entry portrays a man who had the tools available (through his unique position as a an adviser and political strategist) to deceive voters and discredit the established research of hundreds of career scientists around the world. Now, he was not alone since the media swallowed his propaganda hook, line and sinker and ignored the hundreds of scientists around the world. His words about believing in it now and "at the time" with the available data he made the right decision is ludicrous. Don't let him get away with it. He is a master of lying to people and will trick anyone of you again. Don't be fooled into defending him on NPOV grounds. An analysis of his words and actions at the time, along with his motive and intent to deceive the public are on the record. Still, if the average American is so apathetic or ignorant as to vote and be swayed by this lying, then what can be done if they breed like rabbits?-ZERO00
I noticed that while there is an external link to the " Luntz Memo" on the main page, it's not mentioned at all in the article. That's a little odd -- a came across a mention of the memo in this Globe and Mail article, which referred to it as the "now-infamous 2003 memo." It's essentially a guide for how Republicans should phrase environmental discussions, especially when it involved global warming. I have little interest in this Luntz wiki, but I thought I ought to point this out. FYI. -BC aka Callmebc 15:28, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I removed alot of the family unsourced material. Birthdates for parents is not needed. Also, if father is as notable as mentioned, mayne he should have his own article(no I do not want to write it, thank you very much)? -- Tom 17:41, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
This is my first attempt to contribute so bear with me.
Diane Rehms interviewed Mr. Luntz on WAMU. WAMU is an NPR affiliate in Washington, D.C.
The interview is available in the archives: http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/07/02/01.php#12645
Frank seems to own up to the "death tax" phrase in the interview. So if I knew how I would fix the first citation needed in the Use of Language section, I would.
Ms. Rehms takes Mr. Luntz to task several times for evading questions.
IMO, the last caller to the show categorically rebuts Mr. Luntz's arguement for calling it a death tax. Luntz is saved by the bell.
I find the above reference to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels educational. I liked it better when the follow up pointed out Goebbells was a Nazi.
RufusBugleWeed 20:22, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
I saw Frank Luntz on TV and they mentioned he worked for Bill CLinton. Is this true? If so this should be included because the article focuses on his work for George Bush. JettaMann 02:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Ding, dong, cleaning service. This article seems to be bloating with unsourced material again. Can sources be used going forward? Thanks, -- Tom 00:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
If youtube was a RS then you could watch it and see for yourself what was said as that episode is on it. A problem is that RS's don't like to report negatively on their own people. Lots of other sources claim (with video evidence) that Luntz lectures the poll groups before they vote to sway opinion and that some people are appearing in more than one "randomly selected" group. Wayne ( talk) 03:52, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
An IP keeps adding large block of unsourced, original resaerch sounding material to the article which I keep reverting. IP, if you can provide sources here, they can be reviewed here and the community can decide if the material is worthy of inclusion. Anyways, -- Tom 19:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Should it be "lede" or "lead" section? I thought it was lead but I keep seeing lede?? Anyways, I have removed the material about Luntz shaping talking points for the repubs since it seems to be sythnesis of the cited source. Can the lead be crafted here and then added? Thanks in advance, -- Tom 17:31, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Should his toupee be referenced? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.246.140.21 ( talk) 01:49, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't have an opinion about this guy, but the editors certainly appear to. While some of the article is neutral, the editors clearly take pains to set up and then contradict Mr. Luntz. Some of the comments on the talk page clearly display a level of vitriol that seems inappropriate. Perhaps the original article was too positive, but the pendulum has clearly swung too far the other way. By all means point out controversies, but this is not the appropriate forum for a one-sided dissection of the man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.96.132.86 ( talk) 17:50, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
While introducing a panel on the results of Obama's joint meeting with Democrats and Republican leaders, Mr. Luntz said that the Philadelphia hospital was the first in america. WRONG. The first hospital was built in the 1611 Citie of Henricus in Virginia. It was called Mount Malady, or Mount Malado. It could house 40 sick or injured men, sleeping them two-to-a-bed. This early hospital was a vst improvement over the crowded, filthy English hospitals of the time.
While introducing a panel on the results of Obama's joint meeting with Democrats and Republican leaders, Mr. Luntz said that the Philadelphia hospital was the first in america. WRONG. The first hospital was built in the 1611 Citie of Henricus in Virginia. It was called Mount Malady, or Mount Malado. It could house 40 sick or injured men, sleeping them two-to-a-bed. This early hospital was a vst improvement over the crowded, filthy English hospitals of the time.
While introducing a panel on the results of Obama's joint meeting with Democrats and Republican leaders, Mr. Luntz said that the Philadelphia hospital was the first in
america. WRONG. The first hospital was built in the 1611 Citie of Henricus in Virginia. It was called Mount Malady, or Mount Malado. It could house 40 sick or injured men, sleeping them two-to-a-bed. This early hospital was a vst improvement over the crowded, filthy English hospitals of the time. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
72.82.45.175 (
talk)
14:49, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
For one, you don't have to post it three times. For another, you have mischaracterized Luntz' statement. He said that the Pennsylvania Hospital was the first hospital that Benjamin Franklin had established. That statement is correct. However, Pennsylvania Hospital bills itself as the Nation's First Hospital. You might want to take issue with Pennsylvania Hospital.--
65.202.227.123 (
talk)
16:25, 26 February 2010 (UTC)mjd
Livedash (
http://www.livedash.com/transcript/hannity/64/FNC/Thursday_February_25_2010/158334/) quotes Luntz on Fox (Hannity) stating: "We came to philadelphia for a reason this is the home of the first hospital created by ben franklin more than 200 years ago." This statement is completely correct. What is incorrect? The OP's claim that Luntz stated Pennsylvania Hospital was the first hospital in America is incorrect. Lunts didn't claim that. That a claim was made for something called "Philadelphia Hospital" is incorrect, no one said that and there is no hospital named "Philadelphia Hospital". Furthermore, Mount Malady was the first *English* hospital in the New World - not in America. Construction of the first hospital in the New World was completed in 1519 in Santo Domingo. Hernan Cortez founded two separate hospitals in the New World - and died in 1547, over 60 years before Mount Malady. Hotel-Dieu de Québec was founded in 1639 in Quebec by the Augustinians and is still in operation. Mount Malady ceased operation as a hospital LONG before the birth of the nation in which it's rebuilt structure now resides, so Pennsylvania Hospital's claim to be the *Nation's* First Hospital is also quite honest and correct. When one also realizes that Luntz' claim was clearly made on 25 February and not 26 February, as originally claimed (see the posting time/date of the original post and reference to health care summit - the OP couldn't have been referring to a 26 February segment or one earlier than 25 February even if such a segment took place) the only part of the original claim that seems to hold any water wrt/Luntz whatsoever is that Frank Luntz appeared on Fox even if the claim for the date of appearance was incorrect.
In light of this evidence, I strongly recommend that the owner/editor of this page remove the two earlier copies of this subtopic and take no further action on it.
I also recommend in light of this and other poorly supported criticisms (as detailed in the following subtopic) that the main page be critically read for unfounded/unsupported criticisms of Luntz and that all such found be removed
--
96.255.159.197 (
talk)
19:18, 27 February 2010 (UTC)mjd
Frank Luntz is correctly quoted as saying:
"In Katrina, not a single drop of oil spilled in the Gulf of Mexico from the rigs themselves."
It is then stated that his "contention is shown to be false by the Minerals Management Service report which found that Hurricanes Katrina and Rita caused 124 offshore spills for a total of 743,700 gallons. 554,400 gallons were crude oil and condensate from platforms, rigs and pipelines, and 189,000 gallons were refined products from platforms and rigs."
This is remarkably bad logic. Frank Luntz was clear to limit his statement to rigs only and only during Katrina and someone asserts he is wrong by making a statement regarding platforms, rigs, and pipelines combined and for hurricanes Katrina and Rita combined. That fails the simplest of logical tests. In reviewing the report the only further narrowing of the data seem to be a clear statement that for Katrina *only* ~5500 barrels of petroleum products of all kinds were spilled from platforms and rigs combined. As far as I could tell from my admittedly brief assessment of the report there is no indication of how much oil was spilled from rig *only* during Katrina *only*. If that number is in this report or is available frmo another source then that number should be quoted and not this number that only indirectly responds to the original statement. I'll be the first to say that the evidence as presented might seem to seggest that Luntz' statement is false, but there's a big difference between *might* and *actually does*. If his statement can't be shown as false then there should be no discussion of it and I request this discussion be removed.--
65.202.227.176 (
talk)
16:43, 26 February 2010 (UTC)mjd
The Main Page has been updated since this issue has been reported. Please follow Wikipedia policies immediately: "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately"--
96.255.159.197 (
talk)
03:43, 3 March 2010 (UTC)mjd
Per suggestion I removed the paragraph referred to. I was hoping that whoever placed the original material there would either provide a logically consistent reference that supports the original argument or remove the material themselves. If the original poster can provide documented support for their position please repost the material.--
96.255.159.197 (
talk)
01:39, 12 March 2010 (UTC)mjd
The External Link "Frank Luntz Interview" (
http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/video.php?id=1414) does not resolve to an actual link of an interview with Frank Luntz but is not found and resolves to the CBC main page. Unless this can be corrected the link should be removed.
--
96.255.159.197 (
talk)
19:36, 27 February 2010 (UTC)mjd
Not true at all. By the time Luntz made that comment, climate science had solidified its consensus for more than a decade. Naomi Oreskes calls Luntz out on this. It's not just a false statement, it deliberately ignores the scientific consensus that was in place when Luntz made his recommendation. The dates don't lie. Viriditas ( talk) 23:10, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
The "Information Clearing House" article being used as a citation to support Luntz's involvement in that memo does not mention Luntz's name at all. Therefore, per WP:BLP, since that assertion is disputed and is not supported by a reliable source, it should not be put back into the article unless such a source can be found. -- Demiurge1000 ( talk) 16:28, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
None of the accolades listed in this section are sourced. While unsourced positive content is less of a problem than unsourced negative content, if sources can't be found for them, they should be removed. Robofish ( talk) 00:39, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
In an interview http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMFYM5GOyL0 (first 40s) he says "Oxford - Mississippi" where there is also an university( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Mississippi). Maybe this was a joke, maybe not. So any proof he got a PhD from Oxford, UK? Nabrufa ( talk) 02:18, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
I removed the subsection "Leaked tape from the University of Pennsylvania" under "Criticism" with the comment: "Removed Penn leak from Criticism. The notability of the story is in Luntz's views, not in the reaction against them."
9711CA reverted my change with the comment: "These are documented facts found in credible sources. Irrespective of subjective opinion, the are no less objective truths report in multiple sources."
9711CA, we can have a discussion about the notability of this section, but the fact that statements are "objectively true" or "reported in multiple credible sources" doesn't automatically make them worthy of inclusion. Per WP:NOTEVERYTHING, information cannot be included solely for being true; a subject must be treated with appropriate weight. As I wrote in my comment, it's Luntz's views themselves that are noteworthy, rather than a couple of opinions by conservative commentators. Washington D.C. is a massive echo chamber. If we included the (verifiably true) reactions by everyone about everything then every page in the Politics WikiProject would be 10 times as long. As editors it's our job not only to seek out the truth but to separate the wheat from the chaff. -- Nstrauss ( talk) 06:39, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
This was included as a subsection of "Criticism." This was a news story which was covered very well by both conservative and liberal news sources. Luntz was literally criticized, and criticized by many sources even of opposing views. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 9711CA ( talk • contribs) 06:46, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
Does anyone agree that the article should have POV and advert tags, as DGG added? Olorinish ( talk) 19:24, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
OMG!!!! This is both terrible and hilarious, DGG! The talk page is making me giggle, e.g. "He's such a cunt", Goebbels comparison, University of Oxford in Mississippi v. UK, the toupee! The article itself is brutal. I have thought liberals under the Obama Administration excelled at changing or co-opting words, e,g, disruption, sharing economy, self-branding and pay it forward (formerly known as indentured servitude), but Mr. Luntz is the master. Still, this BLP is kind of...appalling!-- FeralOink ( talk) 14:32, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
I've removed the advert tag (but kept the POV tag). I don't see anything in the article that "sounds like advertisements." (See Template:advert.) From the discussion above this really sounds like a balance, quotefarm, and attribution issue. All of which are important, but calling them "advertising" is a distraction. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 17:46, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
This article is flagged for sounding like a press release or an advertisement, and I agree. Luntz is primarily notable for his tenure with the W. administration, and his involvement in shaping the "death tax" messaging. His Warhol moment needs to be more prominent than whatever he's doing lately. That is, after all, how history works. — MaxEnt 20:32, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Can someone find out the title of Frank Luntz's dissertation at Oxford? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.89.54.202 ( talk) 03:06, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
"Candidates, Consultants, and Modern Campaign Technology" http://solo.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/permalink/f/g40bsg/oxfaleph011311797 Johannes der Taucher ( talk) 21:31, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
Luntz's involvement in the Israel Project was recently added to the article. Shortly thereafter Santasa99 added it to the lead section. I reverted per WP:LEAD and WP:UNDUE. Santasa99 then re-reverted with the comment: "Fortunately, per WP:UNDUE & WP:LEAD, edit is more then sufficiently notable for lead as well as for section, even separate article exist on the issue & it's linked duly."
I have no doubt that this subject is sufficiently notable for the article, but why it deserves mention in the lead while none of Luntz's other (very notable) projects are included there is not at all apparent. (And it's incorrect that Luntz's contribution to the Israel Project has its own article. It has a single paragraph supported by a single secondary source.) -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 17:39, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
First, Dr.Fleischman's deletion and consequent objection obviously isn't intended in "good faith", since he already implying something only he see - where exactly he see my claim about article on Luntz and his involvement in Israel Project ?!? I said that article exists on "the issue", which means article on Israel Project and its affiliated ventures, among which is Luntz's "Israel Project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary" !
Secondly, Malerooster should change the lead, or as he said, even completely remove these info on Israel Project from the lead, only if he's willing to rewrite this important information in a separate new section in this article. Otherwise his argument that leaving this edit in the lead would forced us to add many more information is bogus and pretty transparently fallacious reasoning. The lead of this article already contains few other similar information, so adding this one doesn't force anyone adding anything else ! Besides, who is to decide what should or should not be part of the lead, and like in this case, how many specific examples and information should be put in the lead !? On top of that, this particular information (Luntz involvement in Israel Project and authoring of "Dictionary) is extremely important and very much notable, but it's even more interesting, since it provoked worldwide controversy, and response from very notable news organizations, NGO's, and organizations following different kind of activities in and around media, freedom of press, etc.
Third, Dr.Fleischman's claim that this issue in the Israel Project article is covered JUST in section-passage, and referenced with JUST one reference is also very much absurd and untrue - first, what else he expect, section is quite enough; second, it's untrue that there's just one reference in that section, there's at least two, but probably three: Newsweek, Israel Project, and Independent, but just Google it and you can choose from multitudes of articles and reports from mainstream media to relevant organizations, since issue is still highly controversial and invoke huge attention all around.
Bottom line is that nobody should engage in an attempt to marginalize or even hide this Luntz's study, which resulted in publication of "Global Language Dictionary" for Israeli government, although project itself was intended to be absolutely secrete, with every page labelled with "Not for distribution or publication". But what can you do, it's no secret, not anymore, it's out there, Newsweek was among first to brake this to the public, following with many other media outlets worldwide. You can even download entire booklet from Israel Project website !-- Santasa99 ( talk) 03:03, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
First you deleted my edit, with simple reasoning, but extremely insufficient one - "not notable" enough. Meanwhile, your stance has since changed, you appended some arguments - and that's good - mine too, as I said, and you completely disregarded that part, I'm not against moving it from the lead to new section, where other engagements and works are mentioned. Actually I will move it myself, as soon as possible. (However, I'm really puzzled that you decided to completely omit important fact that I actually agreed, in my first reply, to move edit from the lead to section !? Which takes me to "good/bad faith" issue - when person twist, spin, omit, or completely pull things (words, sentences or meaning of what other person supposedly have said) out of thin air, that pretty much constitute action contrary to WP:AGF.)
Trouble with Wikipedia, among many troubles which poison this encyclopedia, is in its contributors who are bringing in their emotions and feelings with them, not to mention national, ethnic, cultural, religious, and in particular political and ideological prejudices - basically, Malerooster, when one shares feeling with another contributor on some issue, that doesn't mean that they are more right or right at all. Same goes for shared opinion. -- Santasa99 ( talk) 16:28, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
It only embarrasses Wikipedia to leave out the ONE document for which Luntz is most famous
The PDF file is widely taught on college campuses, and was key to changing language for decades. Try https://www.sourcewatch.org/images/4/45/LuntzResearch.Memo.pdf
Does Wikipedia really want to exclude this one page from the 16 page briefing document?
Also some text mention is on the waybackmachine - it smells like there may have been a campaign to remove the text of this very influential document. Time to grow up on this one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rpauli ( talk • contribs) 17:36, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Creating a section for posterity on recent interest by editors (such as @ Feran:) on Luntz's sexuality. According to this 2014 Atlantic profile, Luntz explicitly said he was straight. However, this 2017 Logo TV article makes a passing mention that he is gay. Looking to aggregate more information/discourse here before adding anything to the article about his sexuality (if that's even necessary as he appears to be a private man?) — BriefEdits ( talk) 03:17, 6 May 2021 (UTC)