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I think it will be more suitable to title this article "Cilicia War" (despite that the conflicts had extended the traditionally perceived boundaries of Cilicia). The Turkish article refers to a Franco-Turkish front, not an all-out war. The war was waged by locally concentrated forces. And even in Turkish, the more common definition is the "Southern front" (G眉ney cephesi). And the French term is "Cilicia War" (La guerre en Cilicie). A search for "Franco-Turkish War" (La guerre franco-turque) gives no hits. Under any viewpoint, naming a war in a way apparently never heard of by the principally concerned parties will look odd. Cretanforever 09:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
This article needs to be checked/rewritten to eliminate numerous grammatical errors and ambiguities. Geoff Powers ( talk) 13:39, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
The edit war over the victory status for this conflict which focuses on the campaignbox needs to reach some endpoint short of locking this article from further edits. I am not a historian, but a neutral party here. The table below relates changes in the victory statement since article inception to just a few minutes ago. I will take a look at the citations provided throughout the edit history and add a note about that in a bit. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 16:24, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
year-month | state(ment) | Sourced | change link |
---|---|---|---|
2006-06 | Turkish victory | No | Version 1 |
2006-07 | (no value) | No | change |
2009-07 | Turkish victory | No | change |
2009-08 | (no value) | No | change |
2009-09 | ultimate Turkish victory | No | change |
2009-11 | (no value) | No | change |
2009-12 | French withdrawal | No | change |
2009-12 | (no value) | No | change |
2010-02 | Turkish victory | No | change |
2010-02 | (no value) | No | change |
2010-02 | Absolute Turkish Victory | No | change |
2010-02 | (no value) | No | change |
2010-02 | Decisive Turkish victory | No | change |
2010-02 | (no value) | No | change |
2010-10 | Small French victory | Yes | change |
2010-10 | Small French victory ... | Yes | change |
2010-10 | Small French victory | Yes | (bot) change |
2010-10 | French victory | Yes | change |
2010-10 | Turkish victory | No | change |
2011-03 | French victory | Yes | change |
2011-03 | Turkish victory | Yes | change |
2011-04 | French victory | Yes | change |
2011-04 | Turkish victory | Yes | change |
2011-04 | French victory | Yes | change |
2011-04 | Turkish victory | No | change |
{{
citation}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
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help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help)...in October 1921, the French finally gave in by signing the Ankara agreement with Kemal. Cilicia was brought under Kemalist control while the French retreated south of the Alexandretta-Midan Ekbez-Kilis line.
{{
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: External link in |chapterurl=
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help)Mustapha Kemal's government at Angora, however, continued to function, and it was invested with a new importance when, in November, 1921, the Angora Grand Parliament ratified a treaty of accord with France, whereby France relinquished to the Turks some of her territory in Cilicia and in Syria in exchange for certain economic concessions granted her.
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: External link in |chapterurl=
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help)--User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 02:38, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Its imposible,french army lost the battle,look for result of war,frech army lost every territory!Please be objective!-- 88.243.249.249 ( talk) 20:57, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
It is not for Wikipedia to decide whether this was a French or Turkish victory. Wikipedia needs to represent the gamut of reliable reports on the matter. It appears that there is not a clear consensus among reliable sources (see previous section); pretending that there is a clear consensus based on our interpretation of circumstances or our desire for the result to be such or so has nothing to do with building a worthwhile encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not nor has it ever been about Truth; it is about representing what we know. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 00:54, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
I think that some users might confuse with "military victory" and "diplomatic victory". I want to remind the case of the Greco-Turkish War (1897). The Ottoman Empire won a military victory against the Kingdom of Greece. But the Treaty of Constantinople meaned Ottoman's loss.銆We can say Sava艧ta kazand谋k fakat masada kaybettik. (We won war but lost on table) about this Ottoman's situation. About Franco-Turkish War, Ankara can say Sava艧ta kaybettik fakat masada kazand谋k (We lost war but won on table). The important is that no reliable source claims Turkish military victory. After Aintab (Antep) was fallen to the French Colonial Forces on 8 February 1921, there was no reportable "conduct of hostilities". From a military view point, I think "Small French vistory" [1] is suitable for this article.
Takabeg ( talk) 18:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Franco-Turkish War article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I think it will be more suitable to title this article "Cilicia War" (despite that the conflicts had extended the traditionally perceived boundaries of Cilicia). The Turkish article refers to a Franco-Turkish front, not an all-out war. The war was waged by locally concentrated forces. And even in Turkish, the more common definition is the "Southern front" (G眉ney cephesi). And the French term is "Cilicia War" (La guerre en Cilicie). A search for "Franco-Turkish War" (La guerre franco-turque) gives no hits. Under any viewpoint, naming a war in a way apparently never heard of by the principally concerned parties will look odd. Cretanforever 09:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
This article needs to be checked/rewritten to eliminate numerous grammatical errors and ambiguities. Geoff Powers ( talk) 13:39, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
The edit war over the victory status for this conflict which focuses on the campaignbox needs to reach some endpoint short of locking this article from further edits. I am not a historian, but a neutral party here. The table below relates changes in the victory statement since article inception to just a few minutes ago. I will take a look at the citations provided throughout the edit history and add a note about that in a bit. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 16:24, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
year-month | state(ment) | Sourced | change link |
---|---|---|---|
2006-06 | Turkish victory | No | Version 1 |
2006-07 | (no value) | No | change |
2009-07 | Turkish victory | No | change |
2009-08 | (no value) | No | change |
2009-09 | ultimate Turkish victory | No | change |
2009-11 | (no value) | No | change |
2009-12 | French withdrawal | No | change |
2009-12 | (no value) | No | change |
2010-02 | Turkish victory | No | change |
2010-02 | (no value) | No | change |
2010-02 | Absolute Turkish Victory | No | change |
2010-02 | (no value) | No | change |
2010-02 | Decisive Turkish victory | No | change |
2010-02 | (no value) | No | change |
2010-10 | Small French victory | Yes | change |
2010-10 | Small French victory ... | Yes | change |
2010-10 | Small French victory | Yes | (bot) change |
2010-10 | French victory | Yes | change |
2010-10 | Turkish victory | No | change |
2011-03 | French victory | Yes | change |
2011-03 | Turkish victory | Yes | change |
2011-04 | French victory | Yes | change |
2011-04 | Turkish victory | Yes | change |
2011-04 | French victory | Yes | change |
2011-04 | Turkish victory | No | change |
{{
citation}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help)...in October 1921, the French finally gave in by signing the Ankara agreement with Kemal. Cilicia was brought under Kemalist control while the French retreated south of the Alexandretta-Midan Ekbez-Kilis line.
{{
citation}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); More than one of |at=
and |pages=
specified (
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help)Mustapha Kemal's government at Angora, however, continued to function, and it was invested with a new importance when, in November, 1921, the Angora Grand Parliament ratified a treaty of accord with France, whereby France relinquished to the Turks some of her territory in Cilicia and in Syria in exchange for certain economic concessions granted her.
{{
citation}}
: External link in |chapterurl=
(
help); More than one of |at=
and |page=
specified (
help); Unknown parameter |chapterurl=
ignored (|chapter-url=
suggested) (
help)--User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 02:38, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Its imposible,french army lost the battle,look for result of war,frech army lost every territory!Please be objective!-- 88.243.249.249 ( talk) 20:57, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
It is not for Wikipedia to decide whether this was a French or Turkish victory. Wikipedia needs to represent the gamut of reliable reports on the matter. It appears that there is not a clear consensus among reliable sources (see previous section); pretending that there is a clear consensus based on our interpretation of circumstances or our desire for the result to be such or so has nothing to do with building a worthwhile encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not nor has it ever been about Truth; it is about representing what we know. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me) 00:54, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
I think that some users might confuse with "military victory" and "diplomatic victory". I want to remind the case of the Greco-Turkish War (1897). The Ottoman Empire won a military victory against the Kingdom of Greece. But the Treaty of Constantinople meaned Ottoman's loss.銆We can say Sava艧ta kazand谋k fakat masada kaybettik. (We won war but lost on table) about this Ottoman's situation. About Franco-Turkish War, Ankara can say Sava艧ta kaybettik fakat masada kazand谋k (We lost war but won on table). The important is that no reliable source claims Turkish military victory. After Aintab (Antep) was fallen to the French Colonial Forces on 8 February 1921, there was no reportable "conduct of hostilities". From a military view point, I think "Small French vistory" [1] is suitable for this article.
Takabeg ( talk) 18:40, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Armenian legion.png, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests April 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Armenian legion.png) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 01:25, 27 April 2012 (UTC) |