This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
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A fact from Francis Bourgeois (trainspotter) appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 6 January 2022 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
[[Content creation#Users#Teens|creating content]]
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that trainspotter Francis Bourgeois is currently studying engineering at the
University of Nottingham? Source: "A 20-year-old engineering student at the University of Nottingham, his TikTok account has nothing to do with a doped-up Ewan McGregor wreaking havoc with his mates, or Victoria Paris posting a video of her new I.AM.GIA ‘fit."
[1]
ALT1: ... that when trainspotter Francis Bourgeois began secondary school, he hid his love for trains in order to fit in with his peers? Source: "He moved to Frome in rural Somerset aged 7, and after starting secondary school, Bourgeois felt compelled to suppress his interest in trains in order to fit in."
[2]
ALT2: ... that when trainspotter Francis Bourgeois was younger, he used to go to the Willesden Junction station and then go home and draw the trains he saw from memory? Source: "Where did his fascination with trains come from? It all stemmed from his childhood in Willesden Junction in London – one of the busiest train junctions in all of London. “All of these trains moving through at once sort of really fascinated me,” he admitted, later adding that he would try to draw pictures of the trains he saw from memory."
[3]
ALT3: ... that trainspotter Francis Bourgeois states that people have started to recognize him in real life from his videos on TikTok? Source: "He was walking past a Nottingham pub a few weeks later when he heard his name being called. “I saw a group of lads all stood up and waving at me. At that point I realised that people were recognising me in the street because they had seen my videos, which is pretty bonkers.”"
[4] (archive due to paywall)
ALT4: ... that trainspotter Francis Bourgeois states that attending university has allowed his passions to flourish? Source: "“I didn’t really know what people would think,” he says, thoughtfully. “Coming to university, I’ve turned a new page and allowed my passions to [flourish] and not be held down. It’s made me a lot happier.”"
[5]
Comment: This is my first DYK and second article, so comments and improvements are appreciated. Thanks!
Created by
Wizzito (
talk). Self-nominated at 14:54, 27 November 2021 (UTC).reply
Comment: I have a few suggestions for possibly more interesting hooks:
This would have to be incorporated into the article, but the same The Face article says "Usually dressed in vintage train gear – an overcoat from the ’50s, an old driver’s watch secured on eBay and a WW2 inspector’s hat, to name a few of his signature pieces", which sounds interesting to me. Any way to incorporate that?
Comment I recommend scrapping ALT0 and ALT4, to reduce the number of possible hooks. I find those two to be the weakest of the bunch.
Trainsandotherthings (
talk) 16:07, 28 November 2021 (UTC)reply
I decided to finally get this DYK moving (was super confused as to what to do for a month). Removed 3 hooks I found to be weak. Not sure if adding the train gear thing would be undue.
wizzito |
say hello! 01:38, 28 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Alt5 and Alt3 are probably the best of the bunch.
wizzito |
say hello! 01:40, 28 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Full review needed now that some hooks have been removed from consideration.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 02:07, 29 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Long enough, new enough by virtue of nom date, eligible. Seems to be appropriately cited to acceptable sources. Neutral and free of plagiarism. Hooks are all of good length and sourced – any that aren't struck would be fine, so I'll leave that up to the promoter. Approved! ezlev (
user/
tlk/
ctrbs) 18:04, 30 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Many sources (mostly tabloids and unreliable blogs) have talked about the supposed real name and birth date of Francis (not sharing here per
WP:BLP, but it can be easily looked up). The only sources that might be OK that reported this are
The Tab,
Manchester Evening News, and HITC, but I'm still wary of adding it unless Francis says so himself. There's been a lot of IP addresses attempting to add this, though. There's also a few, also mostly unreliable, sources reporting that he is or was a music producer. Thoughts?
wizzito |
say hello! 12:39, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
FRANCIS BOURGEOIS LIMITED Company number 13768290
You should probably add the following information that “Francis Bourgeois” is a character adapted by Luke Nelson whom has copyrighted his character name via the government website as “video production”;
Accounts
First accounts made up to 30 November 2022
due by 26 August 2023
Confirmation statement
First statement date 25 November 2022
due by 9 December 2022
Nature of business (SIC)
59112 - Video production activities
82.132.245.96 (
talk) 07:36, 23 December 2021 (UTC)reply
That is not a reliable source
82.132.245.96. All sources that have reported this are tabloid presses and unreliable blogs, which are not considered reliable per our policy on
biographies of living persons.
wizzito |
say hello! 08:50, 23 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Also, how do you know that this is his real name, besides unreliable tabloids telling you so? It could be the name of a representative of his or someone else.
wizzito |
say hello! 08:52, 23 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Further non-tabloid sources such as Variety Magazine (a U.S. based entertainment news source) have also referred to Luke Nicholson as Francis's real name, would suggest updating article accordingly. --
Xboxtravis7992 (
talk) 02:28, 22 January 2022 (UTC)reply
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Sceptre (
talk) 22:29, 9 January 2022 (UTC)reply
– The article about the trainspotter is the
WP:Primary topic by a long shot. According to Toolforge's pageviews analysis, this article has an average of 992 views a day and 20,833 views in total, while the article about the painter
Francis Bourgeois has an average of 229 views a day with 4,816 views in total, and most of the traffic to the painter's article is likely people looking for the trainspotter; as Toolforge also shows a daily average of 6 views to the painter's article before the trainspotter became well-known.
Daily pageviews of both articles (copy and paste as the links mess with the template): https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Francis_Bourgeois|Francis_Bourgeois_(trainspotter)
Daily pageviews of the painter's article before the trainspotter became well-known: https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2020-01-01&end=2021-09-14&pages=Francis_Bourgeois
wizzito |
say hello! 04:29, 2 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Support 2nd, the trainspotter's interest seems to be fairly recent (from October) and while the views are 21,056 v 4,656[
[6]] the painter was getting more daily views 20 days ago so I'd say disambuguate. Crouch, Swale (
talk) 10:03, 2 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Support disambiguation/no primary topic for the time being, with the potential to have a primary-topic-establishing move later. The trainspotter is overwhelmingly the colloquial primary topic -- the fact the painter was recently getting more daily views should be considered in the context he has the undisambiguated title, and regular RM participants know this alone gets a substantial boost in view count. Wizzito's note that the painter's views increased rapidly as the trainspotter became prominent is also strongly worth considering. That said, "colloquial primary topic" and "Wikipedia primary topic" come apart a bit, and I don't think there would be much appetite for a move to give a recently popular figure the undisambiguated title without it being much clearer he should hold it (i.e. by such a lead continuing for a longer period with both titles disambiguated). For the time being, I think the safe move is to make
Francis Bourgeois a disambiguation page with the trainspotter and the painter both having disambiguated titles, and reassess the situation in a year or so. Certainly the painter shouldn't have an undisambiguated title, though.
Vaticidalprophet 10:20, 2 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment:
a) Take an example 'Kite flying' is an hobby in certain geography. A Kite flying hobbyist gets sudden popularity and notability in his own geography but is enough to bring enough hits on Wikipedia article in his name. There is older notable painter having same name same geography since not being of immediate interests number of hits for his article are low but are coming from global audience.
b) Wikipedia is an encyclopedia catering to global audience or local audience?
c) I do accept that 'encyclopedias serve objective of fulfilling curiosity where information/ knowledge is available.Serves indirect but substantial purpose of 'do you know?' and that Measure of 'curiosity' brings in measure of 'generational time value'. So it would be okay for prioritization be changed with generational change.
d) But how fast we can calculate generational change, or we give in to the populism.
Encyclopedia can give in to 'generational time value' of curiosity but can not give way to populism there is nuanced difference in both.
Global should be prioritized over local. IMHO.
Last but not least older usage of the title may have been linked from other websites and sudden change in content under that title can lead to confusion of audience from previous links.
I'm not sure this argument works in your favour. Trainspotting is a global hobby and Tiktok is (infamously, even) a global app. The painter has more ILLs, but ILLs are a proxy for article age as much or more as they are for global interest, and it only has a small handful (very few, in fact, for a 2005 article).
Vaticidalprophet 11:32, 4 January 2022 (UTC)reply
I do not have interest in any of the topic being discussed but I am primarily interested in getting points discussed as part of encyclopedic philosophy. So it does not matter if any of my points need to be corrected, healthy discussion taking place is very nice. Thanks for your response.
Oppose. Pure
WP:RECENTISM. The painter was knighted, for crying out loud, and was the court painter. Very, very clear long-term significance. Compared to a young trainspotter who's been big on social media for a year or two and will probably have disappeared back into obscurity in another year or two. This is Wikipedia populism at its worst. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 14:15, 5 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment. "Wikipedia populism at its worst"? The article about the painter was incredibly obscure (and as such we can assume that Google results/etc. were the same way) before this trainspotter became famous.
wizzito |
say hello! 20:18, 5 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Do you mean the article wasn't much looked at or the painter is obscure? A knighted British court painter clearly isn't particularly obscure. And the nature of Wikipedia and the internet means that it is a given that people who are popular at the moment will have high pageviews. It certainly doesn't mean that the trainspotter is far more notable than the painter. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 14:04, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Wasn't much looked at,
Necrothesp. I wouldn't mind turning the undisambiguated title to a disambiguation page (where the trainspotter is named as it is now, and the painter's article is named "Francis Bourgeois (painter)") as
Vaticidalprophet said.
wizzito |
say hello! 16:24, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
There are quite a lot of obscure knighted people out there. It is evidently a disservice to readers if people searching a given name are overwhelmingly looking for one article and not being directed to it. "Recentism" is not relevant per se to "no ptopic" moves rather than ptopic moves -- it's about navigation. If one figure is more historically significant, but people navigating are overwhelmingly looking for another, placing the undisambiguated name at a disambiguation page serves the
reader better.
Vaticidalprophet 17:22, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
There are, but most of them weren't the court painter to the British court! And most of the alternatives aren't trainspotters on social media! We need a bit of long-term perspective here. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 10:30, 7 January 2022 (UTC)reply
We do, and we also need "what page are people trying to get to?" perspective. If one topic has more long-term significance but the other dwarfs it in terms of what people are looking up by several orders of magnitude, neither should hold the primary topic -- having the former hold the primary topic means people aren't ending up at the article they want.
Vaticidalprophet 10:48, 7 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose per Necrothesp. The court painter clearly has vastly more long-term significance than a recent trainspotter. —
Amakuru (
talk) 14:22, 5 January 2022 (UTC)reply
oppose - a clear case of RECENTism. being in the news (and therefore getting lots of page views) does not make him a primary topic.
GiantSnowman 16:43, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose Per Necrothesp. Social media personalities are quite ephemeral. Let’s check back on this in maybe five years.
Thriley (
talk) 17:58, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Was he a student or was he working?
"Bourgeois is a student at the University of Nottingham studying engineering. He quit his job in November 2021 to pursue trainspotting full-time."
Is he a student? What was his job? The two sentences don't seem to connect logically. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
49.130.249.191 (
talk) 11:07, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ RS doesn't say anything about that.
wizzito |
say hello! 02:00, 19 January 2022 (UTC)reply
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion. See also:
WikiProject Trains to do list and the
Trains Portal.TrainsWikipedia:WikiProject TrainsTemplate:WikiProject Trainsrail transport articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Internet culture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
internet culture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Internet cultureWikipedia:WikiProject Internet cultureTemplate:WikiProject Internet cultureInternet culture articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject TikTok, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
TikTok on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TikTokWikipedia:WikiProject TikTokTemplate:WikiProject TikTokTikTok articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
A fact from Francis Bourgeois (trainspotter) appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the Did you know column on 6 January 2022 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
[[Content creation#Users#Teens|creating content]]
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors
Did you know nomination
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as
this nomination's talk page,
the article's talk page or
Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
... that trainspotter Francis Bourgeois is currently studying engineering at the
University of Nottingham? Source: "A 20-year-old engineering student at the University of Nottingham, his TikTok account has nothing to do with a doped-up Ewan McGregor wreaking havoc with his mates, or Victoria Paris posting a video of her new I.AM.GIA ‘fit."
[1]
ALT1: ... that when trainspotter Francis Bourgeois began secondary school, he hid his love for trains in order to fit in with his peers? Source: "He moved to Frome in rural Somerset aged 7, and after starting secondary school, Bourgeois felt compelled to suppress his interest in trains in order to fit in."
[2]
ALT2: ... that when trainspotter Francis Bourgeois was younger, he used to go to the Willesden Junction station and then go home and draw the trains he saw from memory? Source: "Where did his fascination with trains come from? It all stemmed from his childhood in Willesden Junction in London – one of the busiest train junctions in all of London. “All of these trains moving through at once sort of really fascinated me,” he admitted, later adding that he would try to draw pictures of the trains he saw from memory."
[3]
ALT3: ... that trainspotter Francis Bourgeois states that people have started to recognize him in real life from his videos on TikTok? Source: "He was walking past a Nottingham pub a few weeks later when he heard his name being called. “I saw a group of lads all stood up and waving at me. At that point I realised that people were recognising me in the street because they had seen my videos, which is pretty bonkers.”"
[4] (archive due to paywall)
ALT4: ... that trainspotter Francis Bourgeois states that attending university has allowed his passions to flourish? Source: "“I didn’t really know what people would think,” he says, thoughtfully. “Coming to university, I’ve turned a new page and allowed my passions to [flourish] and not be held down. It’s made me a lot happier.”"
[5]
Comment: This is my first DYK and second article, so comments and improvements are appreciated. Thanks!
Created by
Wizzito (
talk). Self-nominated at 14:54, 27 November 2021 (UTC).reply
Comment: I have a few suggestions for possibly more interesting hooks:
This would have to be incorporated into the article, but the same The Face article says "Usually dressed in vintage train gear – an overcoat from the ’50s, an old driver’s watch secured on eBay and a WW2 inspector’s hat, to name a few of his signature pieces", which sounds interesting to me. Any way to incorporate that?
Comment I recommend scrapping ALT0 and ALT4, to reduce the number of possible hooks. I find those two to be the weakest of the bunch.
Trainsandotherthings (
talk) 16:07, 28 November 2021 (UTC)reply
I decided to finally get this DYK moving (was super confused as to what to do for a month). Removed 3 hooks I found to be weak. Not sure if adding the train gear thing would be undue.
wizzito |
say hello! 01:38, 28 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Alt5 and Alt3 are probably the best of the bunch.
wizzito |
say hello! 01:40, 28 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Full review needed now that some hooks have been removed from consideration.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 02:07, 29 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Long enough, new enough by virtue of nom date, eligible. Seems to be appropriately cited to acceptable sources. Neutral and free of plagiarism. Hooks are all of good length and sourced – any that aren't struck would be fine, so I'll leave that up to the promoter. Approved! ezlev (
user/
tlk/
ctrbs) 18:04, 30 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Many sources (mostly tabloids and unreliable blogs) have talked about the supposed real name and birth date of Francis (not sharing here per
WP:BLP, but it can be easily looked up). The only sources that might be OK that reported this are
The Tab,
Manchester Evening News, and HITC, but I'm still wary of adding it unless Francis says so himself. There's been a lot of IP addresses attempting to add this, though. There's also a few, also mostly unreliable, sources reporting that he is or was a music producer. Thoughts?
wizzito |
say hello! 12:39, 20 December 2021 (UTC)reply
FRANCIS BOURGEOIS LIMITED Company number 13768290
You should probably add the following information that “Francis Bourgeois” is a character adapted by Luke Nelson whom has copyrighted his character name via the government website as “video production”;
Accounts
First accounts made up to 30 November 2022
due by 26 August 2023
Confirmation statement
First statement date 25 November 2022
due by 9 December 2022
Nature of business (SIC)
59112 - Video production activities
82.132.245.96 (
talk) 07:36, 23 December 2021 (UTC)reply
That is not a reliable source
82.132.245.96. All sources that have reported this are tabloid presses and unreliable blogs, which are not considered reliable per our policy on
biographies of living persons.
wizzito |
say hello! 08:50, 23 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Also, how do you know that this is his real name, besides unreliable tabloids telling you so? It could be the name of a representative of his or someone else.
wizzito |
say hello! 08:52, 23 December 2021 (UTC)reply
Further non-tabloid sources such as Variety Magazine (a U.S. based entertainment news source) have also referred to Luke Nicholson as Francis's real name, would suggest updating article accordingly. --
Xboxtravis7992 (
talk) 02:28, 22 January 2022 (UTC)reply
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Sceptre (
talk) 22:29, 9 January 2022 (UTC)reply
– The article about the trainspotter is the
WP:Primary topic by a long shot. According to Toolforge's pageviews analysis, this article has an average of 992 views a day and 20,833 views in total, while the article about the painter
Francis Bourgeois has an average of 229 views a day with 4,816 views in total, and most of the traffic to the painter's article is likely people looking for the trainspotter; as Toolforge also shows a daily average of 6 views to the painter's article before the trainspotter became well-known.
Daily pageviews of both articles (copy and paste as the links mess with the template): https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Francis_Bourgeois|Francis_Bourgeois_(trainspotter)
Daily pageviews of the painter's article before the trainspotter became well-known: https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2020-01-01&end=2021-09-14&pages=Francis_Bourgeois
wizzito |
say hello! 04:29, 2 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Support 2nd, the trainspotter's interest seems to be fairly recent (from October) and while the views are 21,056 v 4,656[
[6]] the painter was getting more daily views 20 days ago so I'd say disambuguate. Crouch, Swale (
talk) 10:03, 2 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Support disambiguation/no primary topic for the time being, with the potential to have a primary-topic-establishing move later. The trainspotter is overwhelmingly the colloquial primary topic -- the fact the painter was recently getting more daily views should be considered in the context he has the undisambiguated title, and regular RM participants know this alone gets a substantial boost in view count. Wizzito's note that the painter's views increased rapidly as the trainspotter became prominent is also strongly worth considering. That said, "colloquial primary topic" and "Wikipedia primary topic" come apart a bit, and I don't think there would be much appetite for a move to give a recently popular figure the undisambiguated title without it being much clearer he should hold it (i.e. by such a lead continuing for a longer period with both titles disambiguated). For the time being, I think the safe move is to make
Francis Bourgeois a disambiguation page with the trainspotter and the painter both having disambiguated titles, and reassess the situation in a year or so. Certainly the painter shouldn't have an undisambiguated title, though.
Vaticidalprophet 10:20, 2 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment:
a) Take an example 'Kite flying' is an hobby in certain geography. A Kite flying hobbyist gets sudden popularity and notability in his own geography but is enough to bring enough hits on Wikipedia article in his name. There is older notable painter having same name same geography since not being of immediate interests number of hits for his article are low but are coming from global audience.
b) Wikipedia is an encyclopedia catering to global audience or local audience?
c) I do accept that 'encyclopedias serve objective of fulfilling curiosity where information/ knowledge is available.Serves indirect but substantial purpose of 'do you know?' and that Measure of 'curiosity' brings in measure of 'generational time value'. So it would be okay for prioritization be changed with generational change.
d) But how fast we can calculate generational change, or we give in to the populism.
Encyclopedia can give in to 'generational time value' of curiosity but can not give way to populism there is nuanced difference in both.
Global should be prioritized over local. IMHO.
Last but not least older usage of the title may have been linked from other websites and sudden change in content under that title can lead to confusion of audience from previous links.
I'm not sure this argument works in your favour. Trainspotting is a global hobby and Tiktok is (infamously, even) a global app. The painter has more ILLs, but ILLs are a proxy for article age as much or more as they are for global interest, and it only has a small handful (very few, in fact, for a 2005 article).
Vaticidalprophet 11:32, 4 January 2022 (UTC)reply
I do not have interest in any of the topic being discussed but I am primarily interested in getting points discussed as part of encyclopedic philosophy. So it does not matter if any of my points need to be corrected, healthy discussion taking place is very nice. Thanks for your response.
Oppose. Pure
WP:RECENTISM. The painter was knighted, for crying out loud, and was the court painter. Very, very clear long-term significance. Compared to a young trainspotter who's been big on social media for a year or two and will probably have disappeared back into obscurity in another year or two. This is Wikipedia populism at its worst. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 14:15, 5 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment. "Wikipedia populism at its worst"? The article about the painter was incredibly obscure (and as such we can assume that Google results/etc. were the same way) before this trainspotter became famous.
wizzito |
say hello! 20:18, 5 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Do you mean the article wasn't much looked at or the painter is obscure? A knighted British court painter clearly isn't particularly obscure. And the nature of Wikipedia and the internet means that it is a given that people who are popular at the moment will have high pageviews. It certainly doesn't mean that the trainspotter is far more notable than the painter. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 14:04, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Wasn't much looked at,
Necrothesp. I wouldn't mind turning the undisambiguated title to a disambiguation page (where the trainspotter is named as it is now, and the painter's article is named "Francis Bourgeois (painter)") as
Vaticidalprophet said.
wizzito |
say hello! 16:24, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
There are quite a lot of obscure knighted people out there. It is evidently a disservice to readers if people searching a given name are overwhelmingly looking for one article and not being directed to it. "Recentism" is not relevant per se to "no ptopic" moves rather than ptopic moves -- it's about navigation. If one figure is more historically significant, but people navigating are overwhelmingly looking for another, placing the undisambiguated name at a disambiguation page serves the
reader better.
Vaticidalprophet 17:22, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
There are, but most of them weren't the court painter to the British court! And most of the alternatives aren't trainspotters on social media! We need a bit of long-term perspective here. --
Necrothesp (
talk) 10:30, 7 January 2022 (UTC)reply
We do, and we also need "what page are people trying to get to?" perspective. If one topic has more long-term significance but the other dwarfs it in terms of what people are looking up by several orders of magnitude, neither should hold the primary topic -- having the former hold the primary topic means people aren't ending up at the article they want.
Vaticidalprophet 10:48, 7 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose per Necrothesp. The court painter clearly has vastly more long-term significance than a recent trainspotter. —
Amakuru (
talk) 14:22, 5 January 2022 (UTC)reply
oppose - a clear case of RECENTism. being in the news (and therefore getting lots of page views) does not make him a primary topic.
GiantSnowman 16:43, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose Per Necrothesp. Social media personalities are quite ephemeral. Let’s check back on this in maybe five years.
Thriley (
talk) 17:58, 6 January 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Was he a student or was he working?
"Bourgeois is a student at the University of Nottingham studying engineering. He quit his job in November 2021 to pursue trainspotting full-time."
Is he a student? What was his job? The two sentences don't seem to connect logically. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
49.130.249.191 (
talk) 11:07, 18 January 2022 (UTC)reply
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ RS doesn't say anything about that.
wizzito |
say hello! 02:00, 19 January 2022 (UTC)reply