This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | → | Archive 15 |
Since the controversy seems to have died down a little I thought it was a good time to archive the debate Note that rather than copy and paste - I moved the Talk page so that the history will be preserved with the things being discussed. Trödel| talk 18:44, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure if the controversy has died down or just gone into slo-mo. I was waiting for Silverback to return - he didn't have any contribs in his history after the revert skirmish except one, so I was waiting to see if he had any further objections to the level-of-attention language. It looks like he's back. So if he doesn't have any further objections to the level-of-attention to language, I'll go on to the next point on my wish list. crazyeddie 18:48, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Okay, moving on to the next item on my wish list...
Any objections to the inclusion of this point? Any comments on the language? Etc.? crazyeddie 02:30, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Since there doesn't seem to be an objections... crazyeddie 18:31, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
For the PIPA report, I'm proposing replacing the percentages of what other networks had on the misperceptions with the general, overall percentage. The current, individual percentage, version takes up quite a bit of room, and doesn't give additional information that tends to prove or disprove the central thesis of the section. The anti-Fox POV isn't trying to prove that Fox is more biased than all other networks, only that it is biased. Does anybody have any objections to this change? If not, I'll go ahead and do the math, and put what I find up on the talk page for doublechecking. crazyeddie 21:32, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
Well, we have already mentioned that Fox scored highest on these misperceptions. I think removing Fox from the overall score would skew the results too much. That's assuming the difference would be noticable at all. Why give the pro-Fox POV something to complain about? crazyeddie 17:02, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
It would be most disturbing if the difference between the overall difference between the overall average percentages and the non-Fox percentages was large. It might be interesting to see what the difference is, but for the sake of a quiet life, I think we might want to just use the overall average. If the readers wish to see a logical regression, they can read the report. crazyeddie 17:14, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Warzybok, I oppose labelling FAIR as liberal here. As a non-Americans, I find this usage of liberal confusing. Not calling FAIR a liberal organisation is not the same as calling it a non-liberal organisation. Let's leave it to the readers to realise that the report is not above criticism and that FAIR is biased. If they want more information, then they should click some links. Sorry for reverting. I meant to click on next edit, but only the rollback link was there. Tim Ivorson 12:27, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
Its flat out wrong to present a group as a unbiased party conducting study's, when wikipedia itself admits the group is a "progressive" front. -Warzybok
On its "About Us" page, FAIR self-labels themselves progressive. I have no problem, in principle, with including this label in the bullet point - but only if there is clear consensus for the change. Given the above comments, there doesn't appear to be such consensus.
On another note, this discussion has caused me to browse the original FAIR report. There does appear to be a lot of meat there that isn't included in the bullet point. In fact, what is mentioned in the bullet point appears to be mentioned quite far down in the report. Also, a lot of the report covers editorial bias, not reporting bias. Perhaps we should break the Allegations of Bias section into two subsections, Allegations of Editorial Bias, and Allegations of Bias in Reporting?
I would personally like to finish up with my PIPA wish list first though. crazyeddie 18:11, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
It's not just FAIR. Currently, the section is supposedly about bias in reporting. A lot of our bulletpoints don't support this thesis, but do support a thesis of editorial bias. The FAIR report deals mainly with editoral bias. The idea that FOX is editorially biased is probably more widely believed and less controversial than the idea that Fox is biased in its reporting. It also has less serious implications. The FAIR bulletpoint (along with the PIPA bulletpoint, which actually is about bias in reporting) is one of the most contoversial bulletpoints. Placing it in an "editorial bias" subsection might allow us to construct a more faithful summary without getting dragged down into bare-knucks POV wars. crazyeddie 17:11, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Is Foxnews.com hard to search for articles?
The section about the liberal/conservative backgrounds of anchors is a little clumsy- POV only means considering all viewpoints, not presenting viewpoints of unequal credibility as equal. It is almost universally agreed among all disinterested parties that the majority of anchors on FOX are conservative. Therefore, I have reworded the section intro. somewhat and removed the absurd claim that Greta van Susteran is liberal. She may have contributed some money to a liberal group, but she isn't identifiable as liberal in any meaningful way.
Since nobody seems to be bringing up many objections to my proposed changes (to the PIPA bulletpoint) so far, I'll go ahead and lay out the rest of the changes I would like to make. crazyeddie 00:04, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
Now for the math...
According to the page marked 581 of my printed out version of the report, here is the breakdown of the survey respondants by news network:
This gives a total of 2070. According to the text, a total of 3,334 people where polled. 80% of these said they got their news primarily from electronic sources, 19% got their news from print. 80% of 3,334 is 2667.2. I'm assuming that the difference is created by eliminating those respondants who rely on more than one primary news source.
So the overall total of 2070 consists of respondants who primarily rely on a single television news source. It does not include respondants who mainly get their news from print media.
Total = 1078.67, or approx. 52% of 2070
Total = 478, or approx. 23% of 2070
Total = 539.68, or approx. 26% of 2070
Does anybody have any bones to pick with my math? Does anybody want to dive into the appendices and drag out some figures that have less accumulated rounding errors?
If not, here is what I propose:
I'm open to less clunky language. crazyeddie 00:04, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm proposing removing the following sentence: "However, the belief that "Iraq was directly involved in September 11" was held by 33% of CBS viewers and only 24% of FOX viewers."
Here is the relevant passage from the report, on the page marked 583 (disregarding typos – I'm typing this in by hand):
There are several reasons I'm proposing this removal. Take your pick:
It was my original intent that, to make up for removing this sentence, I would propose inserting mention of the stat about FOX viewers being the least likely to believe the misperception that there was no connection between the Iraqi government and al-Qaeda. However, it appears that this language wasn't included in the peer-reviewed PSQ version. crazyeddie 00:04, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
Much of the controversy over this bulletpoint seems to stem from the pro-Fox POV insisting that these misperceptions aren't misperceptions. It does seem to be objectively true that these misperceptions are, in fact, just that. But, regardless, an article on FNC is not the place to be having this discussion. I propose we keep the misperception language the way it is, but link to articles that deal directly with these issues, specifically:
We should also make note of any important evidence that has been discovered since the PIPA report was released, in order to show that these misperceptions were, at the very least, misperceptions at the time of the survey. Namely those degraded mustard gas shells. Anybody have any idea when those were found and when this information was made public? Sources would be nice. crazyeddie 00:04, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
These were misperceptions not only at the time of the survey, but prior to the war.
Kevin Baas talk: new 03:54, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
Heh. I remember waiting for the first fireworks of the war to start up. (Hey, I'm paying for them, might as well enjoy the show, right? The show turned out to be a bit of dud, compared to the first one, IMO.) I turned to my friend (a Republican who later voted for Kerry) and asked, "Um. Hussein has to know we mean business. If he has WMDs, wouldn't he have coughed them up by now, in order to save his hide?" "I know he has them, you know he has them." "Yeah, you're probably right." So I can't say that I blame the average man on the street for being a bit confused. Bush, on the other hand... crazyeddie 08:46, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Anyway, when where those shells found? crazyeddie 08:50, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Replaced my original proposal with Kevin's. Good job on inlining the issue links. Still not entirely happy with the comparison percentages, aesthetically speaking, but can't say I like my version better than yours. After consideration, I've changed my mind on giving information on developments that came about after the study was completed. If somebody else brings it up, we can handle it then. crazyeddie 16:46, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm going ahead and making the change. crazyeddie 18:20, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm not even going to attempt editing this in yet, but how to integrate it should be discussed now, in anticipation for the media-battles that'll likely take place once this meets mainstream. [8] Shem 23:00, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
OH. Oh my. Not earth-shattering, but still. Um. Any pro-Foxers want to try and take a whack at it? crazyeddie 08:40, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hey, Shem, what's the story with the NPOV? Given how many times this freakin' article has had that notice, I'm starting to suspect "force of habit".
On a related note, the order of sections was the result of negotiations between the two POVs. I can understand how we might want to keep it consistent with the CNN article's format, but could we at least wait until they settle their own NPOV crisis? Maybe they'll want to go to a format that consistent with us. Does anybody object to the new CNN-style format? crazyeddie 08:59, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It may've been force of habit, but it was mostly pre-empting problems I assumed users would have regardless, and added the tag to both the CNN and FOXNews articles. There is no reason whatsoever for their formats to diverge as the previous version did, and I erred on the side that would not leave me accused of "covering up" bias later on (moving FOXNews' bias section up, rather than CNN's prominent section down). The articles (CNN and FOXNews) should be edited to a consistent format, from what I see of the two; again, so long as CNN is edited in tandem. Shem (talk) 15:34, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I disagree that the CNN and Fox News articles have to be edited in tandem. Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. At the very least, we should wait until one or the other settle down to a relatively stable form. In the case of Fox News, the Bias section was moved down due to objections by the pro-Fox POV. Their point was that it was overwhelming the rest of the article. The anti-Fox POV didn't feel the need to argue (much). That might not be a problem at CNN - there is less evidence of CNN's bias, CNN's alledged bias isn't as hotly contested. IMO, the Fox News article is more mature than the CNN article, thanks to the constant POV wars. I could make the case that CNN should follow Fox's lead (the articles, not the networks...), but I won't. I would recommend discussing it in the talk pages before making major changes to either article.
Trodel objects to the new format. I think that the Bias section should be at the end of the article, but I was planning on proposing a breakdown of the arguments into "allegations of editoral bias" and "allegations of bias in straight reporting" or something similar. Does anybody else have any opinions on the matter? crazyeddie 18:17, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I wasn't quoting Emerson, I was quoting Bartlett! Seriously though, consistency is an important consideration in an encyclopedia, but it shouldn't be the only consideration. The situations of the Fox and CNN articles aren't entirely parrallel.
In the case of Fox, the reason the bias section was moved towards the end is because, at one point, the Allegations of Bias section was overwhelming the rest of the article. Currently, this isn't a problem, but it might crop up again.
That's why the status quo is the way it is. The reason I'm in favor of keeping the status quo is that most readers are already aware of the allegations of Fox's bias. In all likelihood, they're coming to this article for the express purpose of seeing this information. So it's a good idea to put it at the end, so they can read everything else about Fox before getting to the main event.
On the other hand, CNN doesn't have such a bad rep as Fox. It is entirely likely that a reader of the CNN article isn't previously aware of the allegations of CNN's bias. So it makes sense that CNN's bias section occurs close to the top.
As far as personal POVs go, I'm anti-Fox. Trodel is pro-Fox (more or less), but has a history of compromising and listening to reason. I would advise taking his objections seriously, as that might prevent a less reasonable pro-Fox POV warrior from throwing a full-scale tantrum later on.
We have two "votes" for the status quo, one vote for the proposed change. Does anybody else support moving the allegations of bias section closer to the beginning of the article? crazyeddie 22:07, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I don't think that the order matters much if the intro is sufficiently good. My only objection to moving sections is that it makes it difficult to see what else has changed in that edit. I found Microsoft File Compare output difficult to follow. If we're announcing our POVs, mine is anti-big media. Perhaps that makes me pro-FNC in a funny way, but I don't think so. Tim Ivorson 11:33, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I created a further reading section so that things that do not belong in the external link section have a place in the article. Basically, the further reading section may include articles that are relevant to the Wikipedia article. These further reading articles basically are articles having information that can be added to the Wikikpedia article on Fox but have yet to be cited in a footnote. From the further reading section, I removed
since they only contained a blurb on Fox. Feel free to add these to the article in a citation. Bebestbe ( talk) 17:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
What are these "some observers" the article speaks of on the lead-in to the article? This needs references or it must be removed to meet quality standards. PokeHomsar ( talk) 03:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
This article just screams liberal POV, whether some editors deny it or not. The fact that "critics and some observers" is not sourced proves this. The article needs balance. What "some observers" do the editors of this page mean? What "critics" are they referring to? I know it's the lead-in, but the least that can be done is remove "some observers" as it shows a liberal tilt. PokeHomsar ( talk) 21:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Fox News/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
8 images, 85 citations, this article totally US-biased like the Drudge Report. It needs a lot of cleanup and inline citations before GAN. JJ98 ( Talk / Contributions) 03:15, 4 October 2011 (UTC) |
Last edited at 03:15, 4 October 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 20:35, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | → | Archive 15 |
Since the controversy seems to have died down a little I thought it was a good time to archive the debate Note that rather than copy and paste - I moved the Talk page so that the history will be preserved with the things being discussed. Trödel| talk 18:44, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure if the controversy has died down or just gone into slo-mo. I was waiting for Silverback to return - he didn't have any contribs in his history after the revert skirmish except one, so I was waiting to see if he had any further objections to the level-of-attention language. It looks like he's back. So if he doesn't have any further objections to the level-of-attention to language, I'll go on to the next point on my wish list. crazyeddie 18:48, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Okay, moving on to the next item on my wish list...
Any objections to the inclusion of this point? Any comments on the language? Etc.? crazyeddie 02:30, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Since there doesn't seem to be an objections... crazyeddie 18:31, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
For the PIPA report, I'm proposing replacing the percentages of what other networks had on the misperceptions with the general, overall percentage. The current, individual percentage, version takes up quite a bit of room, and doesn't give additional information that tends to prove or disprove the central thesis of the section. The anti-Fox POV isn't trying to prove that Fox is more biased than all other networks, only that it is biased. Does anybody have any objections to this change? If not, I'll go ahead and do the math, and put what I find up on the talk page for doublechecking. crazyeddie 21:32, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
Well, we have already mentioned that Fox scored highest on these misperceptions. I think removing Fox from the overall score would skew the results too much. That's assuming the difference would be noticable at all. Why give the pro-Fox POV something to complain about? crazyeddie 17:02, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
It would be most disturbing if the difference between the overall difference between the overall average percentages and the non-Fox percentages was large. It might be interesting to see what the difference is, but for the sake of a quiet life, I think we might want to just use the overall average. If the readers wish to see a logical regression, they can read the report. crazyeddie 17:14, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Warzybok, I oppose labelling FAIR as liberal here. As a non-Americans, I find this usage of liberal confusing. Not calling FAIR a liberal organisation is not the same as calling it a non-liberal organisation. Let's leave it to the readers to realise that the report is not above criticism and that FAIR is biased. If they want more information, then they should click some links. Sorry for reverting. I meant to click on next edit, but only the rollback link was there. Tim Ivorson 12:27, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
Its flat out wrong to present a group as a unbiased party conducting study's, when wikipedia itself admits the group is a "progressive" front. -Warzybok
On its "About Us" page, FAIR self-labels themselves progressive. I have no problem, in principle, with including this label in the bullet point - but only if there is clear consensus for the change. Given the above comments, there doesn't appear to be such consensus.
On another note, this discussion has caused me to browse the original FAIR report. There does appear to be a lot of meat there that isn't included in the bullet point. In fact, what is mentioned in the bullet point appears to be mentioned quite far down in the report. Also, a lot of the report covers editorial bias, not reporting bias. Perhaps we should break the Allegations of Bias section into two subsections, Allegations of Editorial Bias, and Allegations of Bias in Reporting?
I would personally like to finish up with my PIPA wish list first though. crazyeddie 18:11, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
It's not just FAIR. Currently, the section is supposedly about bias in reporting. A lot of our bulletpoints don't support this thesis, but do support a thesis of editorial bias. The FAIR report deals mainly with editoral bias. The idea that FOX is editorially biased is probably more widely believed and less controversial than the idea that Fox is biased in its reporting. It also has less serious implications. The FAIR bulletpoint (along with the PIPA bulletpoint, which actually is about bias in reporting) is one of the most contoversial bulletpoints. Placing it in an "editorial bias" subsection might allow us to construct a more faithful summary without getting dragged down into bare-knucks POV wars. crazyeddie 17:11, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Is Foxnews.com hard to search for articles?
The section about the liberal/conservative backgrounds of anchors is a little clumsy- POV only means considering all viewpoints, not presenting viewpoints of unequal credibility as equal. It is almost universally agreed among all disinterested parties that the majority of anchors on FOX are conservative. Therefore, I have reworded the section intro. somewhat and removed the absurd claim that Greta van Susteran is liberal. She may have contributed some money to a liberal group, but she isn't identifiable as liberal in any meaningful way.
Since nobody seems to be bringing up many objections to my proposed changes (to the PIPA bulletpoint) so far, I'll go ahead and lay out the rest of the changes I would like to make. crazyeddie 00:04, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
Now for the math...
According to the page marked 581 of my printed out version of the report, here is the breakdown of the survey respondants by news network:
This gives a total of 2070. According to the text, a total of 3,334 people where polled. 80% of these said they got their news primarily from electronic sources, 19% got their news from print. 80% of 3,334 is 2667.2. I'm assuming that the difference is created by eliminating those respondants who rely on more than one primary news source.
So the overall total of 2070 consists of respondants who primarily rely on a single television news source. It does not include respondants who mainly get their news from print media.
Total = 1078.67, or approx. 52% of 2070
Total = 478, or approx. 23% of 2070
Total = 539.68, or approx. 26% of 2070
Does anybody have any bones to pick with my math? Does anybody want to dive into the appendices and drag out some figures that have less accumulated rounding errors?
If not, here is what I propose:
I'm open to less clunky language. crazyeddie 00:04, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm proposing removing the following sentence: "However, the belief that "Iraq was directly involved in September 11" was held by 33% of CBS viewers and only 24% of FOX viewers."
Here is the relevant passage from the report, on the page marked 583 (disregarding typos – I'm typing this in by hand):
There are several reasons I'm proposing this removal. Take your pick:
It was my original intent that, to make up for removing this sentence, I would propose inserting mention of the stat about FOX viewers being the least likely to believe the misperception that there was no connection between the Iraqi government and al-Qaeda. However, it appears that this language wasn't included in the peer-reviewed PSQ version. crazyeddie 00:04, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
Much of the controversy over this bulletpoint seems to stem from the pro-Fox POV insisting that these misperceptions aren't misperceptions. It does seem to be objectively true that these misperceptions are, in fact, just that. But, regardless, an article on FNC is not the place to be having this discussion. I propose we keep the misperception language the way it is, but link to articles that deal directly with these issues, specifically:
We should also make note of any important evidence that has been discovered since the PIPA report was released, in order to show that these misperceptions were, at the very least, misperceptions at the time of the survey. Namely those degraded mustard gas shells. Anybody have any idea when those were found and when this information was made public? Sources would be nice. crazyeddie 00:04, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
These were misperceptions not only at the time of the survey, but prior to the war.
Kevin Baas talk: new 03:54, 2005 May 30 (UTC)
Heh. I remember waiting for the first fireworks of the war to start up. (Hey, I'm paying for them, might as well enjoy the show, right? The show turned out to be a bit of dud, compared to the first one, IMO.) I turned to my friend (a Republican who later voted for Kerry) and asked, "Um. Hussein has to know we mean business. If he has WMDs, wouldn't he have coughed them up by now, in order to save his hide?" "I know he has them, you know he has them." "Yeah, you're probably right." So I can't say that I blame the average man on the street for being a bit confused. Bush, on the other hand... crazyeddie 08:46, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Anyway, when where those shells found? crazyeddie 08:50, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Replaced my original proposal with Kevin's. Good job on inlining the issue links. Still not entirely happy with the comparison percentages, aesthetically speaking, but can't say I like my version better than yours. After consideration, I've changed my mind on giving information on developments that came about after the study was completed. If somebody else brings it up, we can handle it then. crazyeddie 16:46, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
I'm going ahead and making the change. crazyeddie 18:20, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm not even going to attempt editing this in yet, but how to integrate it should be discussed now, in anticipation for the media-battles that'll likely take place once this meets mainstream. [8] Shem 23:00, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
OH. Oh my. Not earth-shattering, but still. Um. Any pro-Foxers want to try and take a whack at it? crazyeddie 08:40, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hey, Shem, what's the story with the NPOV? Given how many times this freakin' article has had that notice, I'm starting to suspect "force of habit".
On a related note, the order of sections was the result of negotiations between the two POVs. I can understand how we might want to keep it consistent with the CNN article's format, but could we at least wait until they settle their own NPOV crisis? Maybe they'll want to go to a format that consistent with us. Does anybody object to the new CNN-style format? crazyeddie 08:59, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It may've been force of habit, but it was mostly pre-empting problems I assumed users would have regardless, and added the tag to both the CNN and FOXNews articles. There is no reason whatsoever for their formats to diverge as the previous version did, and I erred on the side that would not leave me accused of "covering up" bias later on (moving FOXNews' bias section up, rather than CNN's prominent section down). The articles (CNN and FOXNews) should be edited to a consistent format, from what I see of the two; again, so long as CNN is edited in tandem. Shem (talk) 15:34, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I disagree that the CNN and Fox News articles have to be edited in tandem. Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. At the very least, we should wait until one or the other settle down to a relatively stable form. In the case of Fox News, the Bias section was moved down due to objections by the pro-Fox POV. Their point was that it was overwhelming the rest of the article. The anti-Fox POV didn't feel the need to argue (much). That might not be a problem at CNN - there is less evidence of CNN's bias, CNN's alledged bias isn't as hotly contested. IMO, the Fox News article is more mature than the CNN article, thanks to the constant POV wars. I could make the case that CNN should follow Fox's lead (the articles, not the networks...), but I won't. I would recommend discussing it in the talk pages before making major changes to either article.
Trodel objects to the new format. I think that the Bias section should be at the end of the article, but I was planning on proposing a breakdown of the arguments into "allegations of editoral bias" and "allegations of bias in straight reporting" or something similar. Does anybody else have any opinions on the matter? crazyeddie 18:17, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I wasn't quoting Emerson, I was quoting Bartlett! Seriously though, consistency is an important consideration in an encyclopedia, but it shouldn't be the only consideration. The situations of the Fox and CNN articles aren't entirely parrallel.
In the case of Fox, the reason the bias section was moved towards the end is because, at one point, the Allegations of Bias section was overwhelming the rest of the article. Currently, this isn't a problem, but it might crop up again.
That's why the status quo is the way it is. The reason I'm in favor of keeping the status quo is that most readers are already aware of the allegations of Fox's bias. In all likelihood, they're coming to this article for the express purpose of seeing this information. So it's a good idea to put it at the end, so they can read everything else about Fox before getting to the main event.
On the other hand, CNN doesn't have such a bad rep as Fox. It is entirely likely that a reader of the CNN article isn't previously aware of the allegations of CNN's bias. So it makes sense that CNN's bias section occurs close to the top.
As far as personal POVs go, I'm anti-Fox. Trodel is pro-Fox (more or less), but has a history of compromising and listening to reason. I would advise taking his objections seriously, as that might prevent a less reasonable pro-Fox POV warrior from throwing a full-scale tantrum later on.
We have two "votes" for the status quo, one vote for the proposed change. Does anybody else support moving the allegations of bias section closer to the beginning of the article? crazyeddie 22:07, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I don't think that the order matters much if the intro is sufficiently good. My only objection to moving sections is that it makes it difficult to see what else has changed in that edit. I found Microsoft File Compare output difficult to follow. If we're announcing our POVs, mine is anti-big media. Perhaps that makes me pro-FNC in a funny way, but I don't think so. Tim Ivorson 11:33, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I created a further reading section so that things that do not belong in the external link section have a place in the article. Basically, the further reading section may include articles that are relevant to the Wikipedia article. These further reading articles basically are articles having information that can be added to the Wikikpedia article on Fox but have yet to be cited in a footnote. From the further reading section, I removed
since they only contained a blurb on Fox. Feel free to add these to the article in a citation. Bebestbe ( talk) 17:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
What are these "some observers" the article speaks of on the lead-in to the article? This needs references or it must be removed to meet quality standards. PokeHomsar ( talk) 03:55, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
This article just screams liberal POV, whether some editors deny it or not. The fact that "critics and some observers" is not sourced proves this. The article needs balance. What "some observers" do the editors of this page mean? What "critics" are they referring to? I know it's the lead-in, but the least that can be done is remove "some observers" as it shows a liberal tilt. PokeHomsar ( talk) 21:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Fox News/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
8 images, 85 citations, this article totally US-biased like the Drudge Report. It needs a lot of cleanup and inline citations before GAN. JJ98 ( Talk / Contributions) 03:15, 4 October 2011 (UTC) |
Last edited at 03:15, 4 October 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 20:35, 2 May 2016 (UTC)