Foveaux Strait is currently a Geography good article nominee. Nominated by Alexeyevitch( talk) at 08:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC) An editor has indicated a willingness to review the article in accordance with the good article criteria. Further reviews are welcome from any editor who has not contributed significantly to this article (or nominated it), and can be added to the review page, but the decision whether or not to list the article as a good article should be left to the first reviewer. Short description: Strait separating the South Island and Stewart Island |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
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This article is written in New Zealand English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, analyse, centre, fiord) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
User:Marshelec and User:Cloventt. I have submitted this article as a nominee - it would be nice if a NZ Wikipedian would review it - I definitely don't want this article to be in a similar situation with the Aoraki / Mount Cook National Park article where it's been waiting for 4 months, any further comments and contributions to the article is appreciated. Alexeyevitch( talk) 08:10, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
In order to get this article up to GA status... we will need a concise lede that summarizes the content well. I will improve content in the lede today - could be expanded, feel free to add and improve content. Alexeyevitch( talk) 12:11, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I'm worried that the wildlife section isn't well-written and is up to a professional standard, which a good article should have. Someone may trim or improve the content that's there already because it's worth covering. I'll improve this section a bit more since we now have the McClellan 2020 ref. Feel free to help. Alexeyevitch( talk) 05:22, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
I think that this article is not complete without a list of the more notable tragedies at sea that have occurred in Foveaux Strait. As one example, the sinking of the fishing boat, The Easy Rider, on 14 March 2012 caused the loss of 8 lives, making it New Zealand's worst maritime disaster since the sinking of the Wahine. [1], [2]. I suspect that there are many, and if so, that a table or list might be better than prose. Is someone willing to search across various sources and build a list ? _ Marshelec ( talk) 06:43, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
According to New Zealand Shipwrecks 1795-1975 by C W N Ingram, 5th Edition 1977, the following shipwrecks have occurred in Foveaux Strait (those without fatalities have been struck): 1836, Unidentified wreck; 1864, 'Jack Frost'; 1870, 'Laughing Water'; 1877, 'Halcyon'; 1879, 'Helen and Jane'; 1881, 'Arrow'; 1883, 'Lillie Denham'; 1884, 'Marie Ange'; 1885, 'Champion'; 1888, 'Nellie'; 1892, 'Camille'; 1898, 'Philadelphia'; 1899, 'Aparima'; 1913, 'Iris'; 1923, 'Moana'; 1930, 'Mararoa'; 1937, 'Black Cat'; 1942, 'Horouta'; 1954, 'Sea Mew'; 1955, 'Te Konini'; 1959, 'Reo Moana'; 1960, 'Madge'; 1967, 'Cascade'; 1971, 'Seabird'; 1973, 'Waimanu'; 1974, 'Malibu'.
That's just the index entry for Foveaux Strait. For Waipapa Point the index is: 1843, 'Lunar'; 1876, 'William Ackers'; 1881, 'Tararua'; 1892, 'Star of Erin'. There's another list for Bluff, listing 26 wrecks including 1939, 'Waikouaiti'.
There's a short article on each wreck. I can add each of these to the article, or only those with fatalities (including those with assumed fatalities like the wreck of 1836), or this may be sufficient information to look these up yourselves. I also have the 3rd edition of the book, 1961, which I'm happy to post to anyone who wants it.- Gadfium ( talk) 03:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
There is still more content worth adding to the body of this article. As one example, more work is needed on Transport, and the impact of Foveaux Strait and the ferry services on the economy of Stewart Island. It is often the case that content in the body needs to be well-developed before it is clear what is worth including in the lead, so it may be best to hold off work on the lead until the current round of expansion is complete. I suggest we plan on reviewing the lead, so that it only covers the most important and notable aspects of the topic. There is useful guidance here: MOS:INTRO. With regards to the length of the lead, there is guidance here: MOS:LEADLENGTH. The article is currently under 2,500 words of readable prose, so the guidance indicates just one or two paragraphs._ Marshelec ( talk) 03:57, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
It briefly being called Tees Strait, or the proposal to rename it to Kupe Strait (and other renaming proposals?) could perhaps be mentioned. ( https://gazetteer.linz.govt.nz/place/20969) toweli ( talk) 00:21, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
User:Marshelec, I propose we get this article up to "Featured status", this is a genuinely good article but still has some way to go. I was mesmerized by looking at the criteria, and I truly think we can get this article up to FA status. Thanks for your valued contributions. Please reach back out to me if your intereseted or have any suggestions. Alexeyevitch( talk) 00:53, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
I propose to migrate all detailed content about transport from this article into Stewart Island, leaving just a short summary and link in this article to the new Transport section I propose for the Stewart Island article. I will also migrate some of the content about air services to Invercargill Airport and Stewart Island Flights as appropriate, and some content about ferry services into Bluff Harbour. The rationale is that the services are fundamental to Stewart Island and the services are typically named Stewart Island or Rakiura. It seems likely that readers would expect to find detailed content about transport in the article about the island, rather than having to link to this article. However, I propose to retain summaries here with links. I will continue to add further content about transport across Foveaux Strait here for the meantime, but please comment on this proposed migration before I go ahead._ Marshelec ( talk) 19:43, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Alexeyevitch. I think a small section is needed about proposed large scale fish farms off the Stewart Island coast in Foveaux Strait. Here is one source about the application being declined, but there will be lots of other sources, including some we have already cited. [3] I think further proposals for aquaculture are likely. Perhaps a project like this might be pushed through using Fast Track Approvals ?? Would you like to write up a short section - perhaps to go beneath Bluff oyster fishery ? Marshelec ( talk) 23:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Alexeyevitch I think it would be useful to have a bit more content in the History section about sealers and whalers operating in Foveaux Strait - perhaps a solid paragraph about sealing and some expansion about whaling. The article mentions the Solanders, but I presume there were significant bases for whaling and sealing in other locations that were inside the area we have defined as Foveaux Strait. The list of citations shows many works that appear to be about the history of sealing and whaling, but we don't have much factual content about those topics in the article at present. I have seen in the National Library catalogue that they have a book: Early Days in Foveaux Strait [8]. This book is already cited in the article, but it is only used at present to support a sentence about geography, not history. This seems odd. I may be able to get to the National Library during the week to view their copy. I will also try to get access to some of the other sources, with the aim of finding something useful to support some expansion. If you have access to some of the other sources, perhaps you may also be able to find something useful to add. On a different matter - but still related to sources, can you please check out the DOI given for Jacomb et al (2010) Review of the archaeology of Foveaux Strait, New Zealand. The doi link brings up an error for me._ Marshelec ( talk) 09:05, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Alexeyevitch I have created a Scope section to describe the extent of Foveaux Strait, and added this as the first section. I think it is helpful to have the Toponymy and History sections immediately adjacent because of the connection between the content, and also for Geography to be followed by Sea conditions. However, some small expansion in Geography is needed that gives a bit more background to why the waters are so rough. I will try to find something useful. I looked at article templates for some guidance about section order. There aren't many templates, and most are not particularly relevant, but I did find Template:Article templates/River has History first, then the course of the river. Template:Article templates/Park has Description and then History. Template:Article templates/City has Entymology, then History, then Geography. So there is little consistency. See what you think._ Marshelec ( talk) 20:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Alexeyevitch As is usual with work like this, the most difficult thing when you get to this stage is identifying what is missing. Does it provide the reader with good coverage of the topic (sufficient to clearly meet the criteria in Wikipedia:Good article criteria).? It is easy to critique and review what is written, but much harder to work out what is not there, but should be. At present, I think that the coverage is now close to meeting the GA #3 criteria (hopefully it is not far off from the "comprehensive" standard required for FA. However, the early history section still needs some expansion. More can be taken from Jacomb et al (2010) on the evidence of early Maori occupation around the shorelines, and for sealing and whaling, it would be useful to include some of the major "stations" on the shores of Foveaux Strait, if we can find suitable sources. I will take a break for a day or two to reflect and see if I can come up with anything else that should be covered._ Marshelec ( talk) 05:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
The fishing section has the text In 2023, whānau associated with Ruapuke Island applied for a mātaitai reserve surrounding the island, in response to excessive harvesting by recreational fishers that has caused a decline in the local stocks of finfish and shellfish.
I was unsure what "whānau" means in this context, and went to give a clarification, but having looked through the two provided sources, I still do not understand what it means. Does anyone want to provide a clarification? ―
Panamitsu
(talk)
05:16, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
... Ruapuke Island which is highly valued for its titi population and owned by whanau of Ngai Tahu. As for clarification, I can't immediately think of anything that we could do. ― Panamitsu (talk) 10:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
In the whaling section we have the text In February 1875, the American barque Chance left Bluff Harbour, and spent months whaling primarily in the Solanders. She arrived back to Bluff on 21 May with 360 barrels of whale oil.
At first glance I felt as if it was not that useful, but did not know if I was right (because I have no knowledge of whaling/boats/fishing/voyages), so I added the importance tag in the hope that another editor could comment on the matter. Instead,
Alexeyevitch
removed the tag with no explanation, but rather "I disagree" and "fix it yourself", which does not get us anywhere (by the way, I had made several fixes in that session so I don't know why you've said "FIY"), so I've come here to ask for another editor to address my concerns. ―
Panamitsu
(talk)
10:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Gadfium@ Alexeyevitch I seek feedback about next steps with the list of shipwrecks in this article.
I knew that the existing list was probably incomplete, and I have now found a source from Stuff, [13] that gives a lot more entries that can be added. The Stuff article cites the book: New Zealand Shipwrecks. Over 200 years of disasters at sea. The Stuff article lists shipwrecks under sub-headings: Bluff, Stewart Island, and Foveaux Strait. The question now is how best to proceed with this article and the new information from this source. Some options are:
Discussion:
Please review and comment, thanks Marshelec ( talk) 22:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Nominator: Alexeyevitch ( talk · contribs) 08:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Ganesha811 ( talk · contribs) 17:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Hi! I'll be reviewing this article using the template below. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them here. —
Ganesha811 (
talk)
17:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
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1. Well-written: | ||
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. |
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1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. |
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2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. |
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2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). |
Further comment:
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2c. it contains no original research. |
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2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. |
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3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. | ||
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). |
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4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. |
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5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. |
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6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. |
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6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | ||
7. Overall assessment. |
Foveaux Strait is currently a Geography good article nominee. Nominated by Alexeyevitch( talk) at 08:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC) An editor has indicated a willingness to review the article in accordance with the good article criteria. Further reviews are welcome from any editor who has not contributed significantly to this article (or nominated it), and can be added to the review page, but the decision whether or not to list the article as a good article should be left to the first reviewer. Short description: Strait separating the South Island and Stewart Island |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This article is written in New Zealand English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, analyse, centre, fiord) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
|
User:Marshelec and User:Cloventt. I have submitted this article as a nominee - it would be nice if a NZ Wikipedian would review it - I definitely don't want this article to be in a similar situation with the Aoraki / Mount Cook National Park article where it's been waiting for 4 months, any further comments and contributions to the article is appreciated. Alexeyevitch( talk) 08:10, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
In order to get this article up to GA status... we will need a concise lede that summarizes the content well. I will improve content in the lede today - could be expanded, feel free to add and improve content. Alexeyevitch( talk) 12:11, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I'm worried that the wildlife section isn't well-written and is up to a professional standard, which a good article should have. Someone may trim or improve the content that's there already because it's worth covering. I'll improve this section a bit more since we now have the McClellan 2020 ref. Feel free to help. Alexeyevitch( talk) 05:22, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
I think that this article is not complete without a list of the more notable tragedies at sea that have occurred in Foveaux Strait. As one example, the sinking of the fishing boat, The Easy Rider, on 14 March 2012 caused the loss of 8 lives, making it New Zealand's worst maritime disaster since the sinking of the Wahine. [1], [2]. I suspect that there are many, and if so, that a table or list might be better than prose. Is someone willing to search across various sources and build a list ? _ Marshelec ( talk) 06:43, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
According to New Zealand Shipwrecks 1795-1975 by C W N Ingram, 5th Edition 1977, the following shipwrecks have occurred in Foveaux Strait (those without fatalities have been struck): 1836, Unidentified wreck; 1864, 'Jack Frost'; 1870, 'Laughing Water'; 1877, 'Halcyon'; 1879, 'Helen and Jane'; 1881, 'Arrow'; 1883, 'Lillie Denham'; 1884, 'Marie Ange'; 1885, 'Champion'; 1888, 'Nellie'; 1892, 'Camille'; 1898, 'Philadelphia'; 1899, 'Aparima'; 1913, 'Iris'; 1923, 'Moana'; 1930, 'Mararoa'; 1937, 'Black Cat'; 1942, 'Horouta'; 1954, 'Sea Mew'; 1955, 'Te Konini'; 1959, 'Reo Moana'; 1960, 'Madge'; 1967, 'Cascade'; 1971, 'Seabird'; 1973, 'Waimanu'; 1974, 'Malibu'.
That's just the index entry for Foveaux Strait. For Waipapa Point the index is: 1843, 'Lunar'; 1876, 'William Ackers'; 1881, 'Tararua'; 1892, 'Star of Erin'. There's another list for Bluff, listing 26 wrecks including 1939, 'Waikouaiti'.
There's a short article on each wreck. I can add each of these to the article, or only those with fatalities (including those with assumed fatalities like the wreck of 1836), or this may be sufficient information to look these up yourselves. I also have the 3rd edition of the book, 1961, which I'm happy to post to anyone who wants it.- Gadfium ( talk) 03:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
There is still more content worth adding to the body of this article. As one example, more work is needed on Transport, and the impact of Foveaux Strait and the ferry services on the economy of Stewart Island. It is often the case that content in the body needs to be well-developed before it is clear what is worth including in the lead, so it may be best to hold off work on the lead until the current round of expansion is complete. I suggest we plan on reviewing the lead, so that it only covers the most important and notable aspects of the topic. There is useful guidance here: MOS:INTRO. With regards to the length of the lead, there is guidance here: MOS:LEADLENGTH. The article is currently under 2,500 words of readable prose, so the guidance indicates just one or two paragraphs._ Marshelec ( talk) 03:57, 8 May 2024 (UTC)
It briefly being called Tees Strait, or the proposal to rename it to Kupe Strait (and other renaming proposals?) could perhaps be mentioned. ( https://gazetteer.linz.govt.nz/place/20969) toweli ( talk) 00:21, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
User:Marshelec, I propose we get this article up to "Featured status", this is a genuinely good article but still has some way to go. I was mesmerized by looking at the criteria, and I truly think we can get this article up to FA status. Thanks for your valued contributions. Please reach back out to me if your intereseted or have any suggestions. Alexeyevitch( talk) 00:53, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
I propose to migrate all detailed content about transport from this article into Stewart Island, leaving just a short summary and link in this article to the new Transport section I propose for the Stewart Island article. I will also migrate some of the content about air services to Invercargill Airport and Stewart Island Flights as appropriate, and some content about ferry services into Bluff Harbour. The rationale is that the services are fundamental to Stewart Island and the services are typically named Stewart Island or Rakiura. It seems likely that readers would expect to find detailed content about transport in the article about the island, rather than having to link to this article. However, I propose to retain summaries here with links. I will continue to add further content about transport across Foveaux Strait here for the meantime, but please comment on this proposed migration before I go ahead._ Marshelec ( talk) 19:43, 9 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Alexeyevitch. I think a small section is needed about proposed large scale fish farms off the Stewart Island coast in Foveaux Strait. Here is one source about the application being declined, but there will be lots of other sources, including some we have already cited. [3] I think further proposals for aquaculture are likely. Perhaps a project like this might be pushed through using Fast Track Approvals ?? Would you like to write up a short section - perhaps to go beneath Bluff oyster fishery ? Marshelec ( talk) 23:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Alexeyevitch I think it would be useful to have a bit more content in the History section about sealers and whalers operating in Foveaux Strait - perhaps a solid paragraph about sealing and some expansion about whaling. The article mentions the Solanders, but I presume there were significant bases for whaling and sealing in other locations that were inside the area we have defined as Foveaux Strait. The list of citations shows many works that appear to be about the history of sealing and whaling, but we don't have much factual content about those topics in the article at present. I have seen in the National Library catalogue that they have a book: Early Days in Foveaux Strait [8]. This book is already cited in the article, but it is only used at present to support a sentence about geography, not history. This seems odd. I may be able to get to the National Library during the week to view their copy. I will also try to get access to some of the other sources, with the aim of finding something useful to support some expansion. If you have access to some of the other sources, perhaps you may also be able to find something useful to add. On a different matter - but still related to sources, can you please check out the DOI given for Jacomb et al (2010) Review of the archaeology of Foveaux Strait, New Zealand. The doi link brings up an error for me._ Marshelec ( talk) 09:05, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Alexeyevitch I have created a Scope section to describe the extent of Foveaux Strait, and added this as the first section. I think it is helpful to have the Toponymy and History sections immediately adjacent because of the connection between the content, and also for Geography to be followed by Sea conditions. However, some small expansion in Geography is needed that gives a bit more background to why the waters are so rough. I will try to find something useful. I looked at article templates for some guidance about section order. There aren't many templates, and most are not particularly relevant, but I did find Template:Article templates/River has History first, then the course of the river. Template:Article templates/Park has Description and then History. Template:Article templates/City has Entymology, then History, then Geography. So there is little consistency. See what you think._ Marshelec ( talk) 20:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Alexeyevitch As is usual with work like this, the most difficult thing when you get to this stage is identifying what is missing. Does it provide the reader with good coverage of the topic (sufficient to clearly meet the criteria in Wikipedia:Good article criteria).? It is easy to critique and review what is written, but much harder to work out what is not there, but should be. At present, I think that the coverage is now close to meeting the GA #3 criteria (hopefully it is not far off from the "comprehensive" standard required for FA. However, the early history section still needs some expansion. More can be taken from Jacomb et al (2010) on the evidence of early Maori occupation around the shorelines, and for sealing and whaling, it would be useful to include some of the major "stations" on the shores of Foveaux Strait, if we can find suitable sources. I will take a break for a day or two to reflect and see if I can come up with anything else that should be covered._ Marshelec ( talk) 05:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
The fishing section has the text In 2023, whānau associated with Ruapuke Island applied for a mātaitai reserve surrounding the island, in response to excessive harvesting by recreational fishers that has caused a decline in the local stocks of finfish and shellfish.
I was unsure what "whānau" means in this context, and went to give a clarification, but having looked through the two provided sources, I still do not understand what it means. Does anyone want to provide a clarification? ―
Panamitsu
(talk)
05:16, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
... Ruapuke Island which is highly valued for its titi population and owned by whanau of Ngai Tahu. As for clarification, I can't immediately think of anything that we could do. ― Panamitsu (talk) 10:08, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
In the whaling section we have the text In February 1875, the American barque Chance left Bluff Harbour, and spent months whaling primarily in the Solanders. She arrived back to Bluff on 21 May with 360 barrels of whale oil.
At first glance I felt as if it was not that useful, but did not know if I was right (because I have no knowledge of whaling/boats/fishing/voyages), so I added the importance tag in the hope that another editor could comment on the matter. Instead,
Alexeyevitch
removed the tag with no explanation, but rather "I disagree" and "fix it yourself", which does not get us anywhere (by the way, I had made several fixes in that session so I don't know why you've said "FIY"), so I've come here to ask for another editor to address my concerns. ―
Panamitsu
(talk)
10:28, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
@ Gadfium@ Alexeyevitch I seek feedback about next steps with the list of shipwrecks in this article.
I knew that the existing list was probably incomplete, and I have now found a source from Stuff, [13] that gives a lot more entries that can be added. The Stuff article cites the book: New Zealand Shipwrecks. Over 200 years of disasters at sea. The Stuff article lists shipwrecks under sub-headings: Bluff, Stewart Island, and Foveaux Strait. The question now is how best to proceed with this article and the new information from this source. Some options are:
Discussion:
Please review and comment, thanks Marshelec ( talk) 22:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Nominator: Alexeyevitch ( talk · contribs) 08:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
Reviewer: Ganesha811 ( talk · contribs) 17:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Hi! I'll be reviewing this article using the template below. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them here. —
Ganesha811 (
talk)
17:26, 15 July 2024 (UTC)
Rate | Attribute | Review Comment |
---|---|---|
1. Well-written: | ||
1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct. |
| |
1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation. |
| |
2. Verifiable with no original research: | ||
2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. |
| |
2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose). |
Further comment:
| |
2c. it contains no original research. |
| |
2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism. |
| |
3. Broad in its coverage: | ||
3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic. | ||
3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style). |
| |
4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each. |
| |
5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. |
| |
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: | ||
6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content. |
| |
6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions. | ||
7. Overall assessment. |