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Can somebody please remove the "funny" part (obviously vandalism) from the beginning of the article, since I don't know how to do it? (When I click "edit this page" to remove it, it doesn't appear there) 89.205.18.166 ( talk) 00:04, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Gee, that was quick. The funny quote isn't there anymore. Thanks. 89.205.18.166 ( talk) 00:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
We've hand an ongoing discussion at Talk:Fourth International (1963). Until recently this page has been reunified Fourth International. The feeling of other editors was that Fourth International (1963) was a better name. However, this could be POV by suggesting that the International was created in 1963. These is agreement that the FI/USFI is the organisational/legal continuity of the FI of 1938 (but not necessarily its political continuity). Thus we need to balance two difficulties: maintain separate pages is, in some way, and anit-FI POV. But merging the pages would require some. We keep on coming back to this proposal and, while it may not please everyone, I think it's the only way to prevent this issue reappearing. Please vote for or against (or, maybe?). -- Duncan ( talk) 15:18, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
In many Soviet and Chinese propaganda videos and songs, a "4"-shaped symbol is seen. It's supposed to be the silhouette of a spike bayonet attacked to a Mosin Nagant rifle. Is this in any way related? Example —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.50.236 ( talk) 13:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
The article states that Lutte Ouvriere claims that the Fourth International "failed to oppose the second world war". The article linked does not say this, it says that the Fourth International did not survive WWII, but that its programme did. (If you wanted to translate the verb "resister" here with "to resist" it would be in the sense of passively resisting a fatal illness. (I am French and I have a friend in LO.)) There is also some confusion in the numbering of the link: link number 71 (instead of 72) is the intended link, there seems to be an offset because the next link (73) should be 72. I would have edited the article if I was allowed. Could someone with the privileges please correct this, in my opinion it is a serious misrepresentation of Lutte Ouvriere's position.
Sipaliwini ( talk) 21:57, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
There is a great mistake on the last paragraph of the introduction: when it says tha the "Fourth International tried to eclipse the cominterm by organically building itself into something superior in size and scope". It is contradictory with all the information on the article about the Left Oposition and the reasons that made Trotsky decided to be in favor of the constrution of the IV International. It is not correct to say that the IV intended to eclipse the cominterm (or something like that). The Cominterm was dissolved in 1943, five years after the IV International fundation. I think it is correct to delet that paragraph. From brazil -- Eduardoalbergaria ( talk) 19:57, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
As with many articles read mostly by partisans of a specific ideological point of view, this article fails to sustain the neutral tone that Wikipedia seeks to attain. The following sentence, which employs loaded words such as "hounded" and "repressed," is a case in point: "Throughout the better part of its existence, the Fourth International was hounded by agents of the Soviet secret police, repressed by capitalist countries such as France and the United States and rejected by followers of the Soviet Union and later Maoism as illegitimate—a position these communists still hold today." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.202.9.138 ( talk) 04:43, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
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Sometimes things "creep in" so can someone look at the 9 links in the "Further reading" section for integration or trimming? Otr500 ( talk) 17:06, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
I know that a merge with Fourth International (post-reunification) has been discussed before. But, I think what past discussions have failed to take into account is the Fourth International split into two groups that reunited in 1963. The other so-called "Fourth Internationals" that dispute this group's legitimacy are splinter groups who's claims are nothing more than opinions. The fact that there are not separate articles in the majority of the other Wikipedias is further testament of this. Charles Essie ( talk) 17:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Having scanned this for the first time, here's problems I immediately see — there are likely more.
For starters.
Weeb Dingle (
talk) 14:27, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
Usually in wikipedia articles about political organizationss, "Preceded by..." is used when an organization can be considered the "heir" or the continuation of another, even if is not the formal sucessor (in these sense, Cominform was "preceded by" Third International, or the Socialist International was preceded by Labour and Socialist International, and the LSI by the Second International); but the Fourth International was a different thing - a split from the Third (and a split that occured when the Third was still in existence, unlike, for example, the Third who was created after the Second disbandend).-- MiguelMadeira ( talk) 16:21, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
The article has several issues with the FA criteria, including lack of citations for material (inline references, at least one at the end of each paragraph, are required for FAs). Another issue is that many of the sources are of dubious reliability and/or written from a Trotskyist and/or Marxist perspective. While WP:BIASED sources are not inherently unreliable, it raises questions about WP:NPOV. Independent scholarship that may be helpful in improving reference quality: [1] [2] [3]
References
( t · c) buidhe 23:54, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
That's one of the main things I tend to expect form Wiki Pages for Internationals? KuudereKun 12:25, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
This is the
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Fourth International article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Archives: 1 |
![]() | Fourth International is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 22, 2007. | |||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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Can somebody please remove the "funny" part (obviously vandalism) from the beginning of the article, since I don't know how to do it? (When I click "edit this page" to remove it, it doesn't appear there) 89.205.18.166 ( talk) 00:04, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Gee, that was quick. The funny quote isn't there anymore. Thanks. 89.205.18.166 ( talk) 00:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
We've hand an ongoing discussion at Talk:Fourth International (1963). Until recently this page has been reunified Fourth International. The feeling of other editors was that Fourth International (1963) was a better name. However, this could be POV by suggesting that the International was created in 1963. These is agreement that the FI/USFI is the organisational/legal continuity of the FI of 1938 (but not necessarily its political continuity). Thus we need to balance two difficulties: maintain separate pages is, in some way, and anit-FI POV. But merging the pages would require some. We keep on coming back to this proposal and, while it may not please everyone, I think it's the only way to prevent this issue reappearing. Please vote for or against (or, maybe?). -- Duncan ( talk) 15:18, 21 May 2009 (UTC)
In many Soviet and Chinese propaganda videos and songs, a "4"-shaped symbol is seen. It's supposed to be the silhouette of a spike bayonet attacked to a Mosin Nagant rifle. Is this in any way related? Example —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.93.50.236 ( talk) 13:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
The article states that Lutte Ouvriere claims that the Fourth International "failed to oppose the second world war". The article linked does not say this, it says that the Fourth International did not survive WWII, but that its programme did. (If you wanted to translate the verb "resister" here with "to resist" it would be in the sense of passively resisting a fatal illness. (I am French and I have a friend in LO.)) There is also some confusion in the numbering of the link: link number 71 (instead of 72) is the intended link, there seems to be an offset because the next link (73) should be 72. I would have edited the article if I was allowed. Could someone with the privileges please correct this, in my opinion it is a serious misrepresentation of Lutte Ouvriere's position.
Sipaliwini ( talk) 21:57, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
There is a great mistake on the last paragraph of the introduction: when it says tha the "Fourth International tried to eclipse the cominterm by organically building itself into something superior in size and scope". It is contradictory with all the information on the article about the Left Oposition and the reasons that made Trotsky decided to be in favor of the constrution of the IV International. It is not correct to say that the IV intended to eclipse the cominterm (or something like that). The Cominterm was dissolved in 1943, five years after the IV International fundation. I think it is correct to delet that paragraph. From brazil -- Eduardoalbergaria ( talk) 19:57, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
As with many articles read mostly by partisans of a specific ideological point of view, this article fails to sustain the neutral tone that Wikipedia seeks to attain. The following sentence, which employs loaded words such as "hounded" and "repressed," is a case in point: "Throughout the better part of its existence, the Fourth International was hounded by agents of the Soviet secret police, repressed by capitalist countries such as France and the United States and rejected by followers of the Soviet Union and later Maoism as illegitimate—a position these communists still hold today." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.202.9.138 ( talk) 04:43, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
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Sometimes things "creep in" so can someone look at the 9 links in the "Further reading" section for integration or trimming? Otr500 ( talk) 17:06, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
I know that a merge with Fourth International (post-reunification) has been discussed before. But, I think what past discussions have failed to take into account is the Fourth International split into two groups that reunited in 1963. The other so-called "Fourth Internationals" that dispute this group's legitimacy are splinter groups who's claims are nothing more than opinions. The fact that there are not separate articles in the majority of the other Wikipedias is further testament of this. Charles Essie ( talk) 17:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Having scanned this for the first time, here's problems I immediately see — there are likely more.
For starters.
Weeb Dingle (
talk) 14:27, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
Usually in wikipedia articles about political organizationss, "Preceded by..." is used when an organization can be considered the "heir" or the continuation of another, even if is not the formal sucessor (in these sense, Cominform was "preceded by" Third International, or the Socialist International was preceded by Labour and Socialist International, and the LSI by the Second International); but the Fourth International was a different thing - a split from the Third (and a split that occured when the Third was still in existence, unlike, for example, the Third who was created after the Second disbandend).-- MiguelMadeira ( talk) 16:21, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
The article has several issues with the FA criteria, including lack of citations for material (inline references, at least one at the end of each paragraph, are required for FAs). Another issue is that many of the sources are of dubious reliability and/or written from a Trotskyist and/or Marxist perspective. While WP:BIASED sources are not inherently unreliable, it raises questions about WP:NPOV. Independent scholarship that may be helpful in improving reference quality: [1] [2] [3]
References
( t · c) buidhe 23:54, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
That's one of the main things I tend to expect form Wiki Pages for Internationals? KuudereKun 12:25, 1 September 2023 (UTC)