This article is part of WikiProject Miami, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the Miami metropolitan area on
Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.MiamiWikipedia:WikiProject MiamiTemplate:WikiProject MiamiMiami articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Florida. If you would like to join us, please visit the project page; if you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.FloridaWikipedia:WikiProject FloridaTemplate:WikiProject FloridaFlorida articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hotels, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to the
hospitality industry, including
hotels,
motels,
resorts, and
destination spas on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HotelsWikipedia:WikiProject HotelsTemplate:WikiProject HotelsHotels articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skyscrapers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that relate to skyscrapers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkyscrapersWikipedia:WikiProject SkyscrapersTemplate:WikiProject SkyscrapersSkyscraper articles
It seems that someone's taken quite a few pieces of information from
[1]. Facts can't be copyrighted, but sentences can, making this a borderline case. I've taken the compromise position of removing the stuff that was formulated in exactly the same way, and adding a "see more" link - you can only use sources when citing them. --
Alvestrand08:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Floor count discrepancy...
Emporis states there are 64 floors. The residences website
here states there are 70, and that the penthouses are floors 67-70. We appear to have a conflict of sources here. I've been in the building's lobby and pool area on the 7th floor, but it was a few years ago and I can't remember if the buttons in the elevator went up to 70. It seems that the official site would be more of a believable source. Emporis is most likely wrong in this case. -
Marc Averette17:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)reply
It could be one of those cases when the building labels floors with higher counts than actually exist (Freedom Tower, for example, will have around 82 floors, but floor count will be 108). In those such cases, just sticking with the official count is correct. You're right anyway - Emporis can often be wrong, and official sites are always best to use as primary sources.
Raime22:54, 5 September 2007 (UTC)reply
The residence website cited as a source appears to be a dead link now. It's unclear who created the site and accuracy can't be assured. Elevator counts can also be misleading, skipping 13 for example. I agree that Emporis can be wrong, seen it before a few times, but they will usually make corrections quickly if that's the case. Anyway the threshold for Wikipedia is verifiability not truth
WP:VNT meaning it must be published by reliable sources. The CTBUH and Emporis are the most widely accepted sources for building lists, and they currently both list the Four Seasons Hotel Miami at 64 floors. This article and list should reflect that, unless or until those sources change and correct their data.
1305cj (
talk)
16:50, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Tallest building south of Atlanta?
Houston is located south of Atlanta, and contains 3 buildings taller than the Four Seasons. So this information is incorrect; another instance where Emporis is wrong.
Raime22:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)reply
WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class.
BetacommandBot03:21, 9 November 2007 (UTC)reply
I added references to
Emporis, which support the claim that the building is the tallest building in Florida and the tallest residential building in the country south of Philadelphia. A tallest building in a state is not a "slender claim" of notability. --
Rai•
me17:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)reply
AS you said above; Emporis can often be wrong, and official sites are always best to use as primary sources.. I think you meant secondary sources.
Jezhotwells (
talk)
23:46, 27 August 2009 (UTC)reply
It certainly does not plagiarize; look at where those websites are - blogs and forums that are pretty obviously taking the information directly from the Emporis site, not the other way around. Other websites use Emporis as a source; it is frequently
cited as an authority on building data in the media, and has been demonstrated reliable at FLC several times. When I stated the above, I was referring only to the floor count - there is consensus at
WP:SKY to use the official height stated by the developer for the floor count of the building in articles. And anyone can create an account, but only verified editors can submit information to the building entries after it has been approved. --
Rai•
me13:30, 28 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I just registered myself, and it clearly states that any information submitted by all users will only be published on the website if the "Emporis community" (confirmed editors that have been on the website for years) verify the information you present. However, I will keep looking for other sources, as this particular building has been featured in several news articles. --
Rai•
me13:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Did you actually change data in building entries? I am curious, as newly registered users have never been able to do this before. --
Rai•
me14:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC)reply
In the past, all users must have their contributions verified by Emporis senior editors before any information is posted; if this is still the case, I do not see why the site is unreliable. I opened discussion about the reliability of Emporis at
Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Reliability of Emporis in building articles, as this issue goes far beyond this article - Emporis is used as a source in many building articles and lists. So far, one editor has responded with "Quite reliable for the U.S., but there you can easily find better printed sources." Print sources would be better, but in some cases are not widely available for non-notable buildings without articles that are still included in lists of tallest buildings. Note that the first link you gave above,
CTBUH, which is widely regarded as the major skyscraper resource on the web,
has a partnership with Emporis to use its building database information. But anyway, for this particular article, I believe the above links are suitable to use (except for the last one, which just appears to be an advertisement). Cheers,
Rai•
me23:35, 28 August 2009 (UTC)reply
This article is part of WikiProject Miami, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the Miami metropolitan area on
Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.MiamiWikipedia:WikiProject MiamiTemplate:WikiProject MiamiMiami articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Architecture, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Architecture on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ArchitectureWikipedia:WikiProject ArchitectureTemplate:WikiProject ArchitectureArchitecture articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Florida. If you would like to join us, please visit the project page; if you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.FloridaWikipedia:WikiProject FloridaTemplate:WikiProject FloridaFlorida articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hotels, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to the
hospitality industry, including
hotels,
motels,
resorts, and
destination spas on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HotelsWikipedia:WikiProject HotelsTemplate:WikiProject HotelsHotels articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skyscrapers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that relate to skyscrapers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkyscrapersWikipedia:WikiProject SkyscrapersTemplate:WikiProject SkyscrapersSkyscraper articles
It seems that someone's taken quite a few pieces of information from
[1]. Facts can't be copyrighted, but sentences can, making this a borderline case. I've taken the compromise position of removing the stuff that was formulated in exactly the same way, and adding a "see more" link - you can only use sources when citing them. --
Alvestrand08:55, 26 June 2007 (UTC)reply
Floor count discrepancy...
Emporis states there are 64 floors. The residences website
here states there are 70, and that the penthouses are floors 67-70. We appear to have a conflict of sources here. I've been in the building's lobby and pool area on the 7th floor, but it was a few years ago and I can't remember if the buttons in the elevator went up to 70. It seems that the official site would be more of a believable source. Emporis is most likely wrong in this case. -
Marc Averette17:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)reply
It could be one of those cases when the building labels floors with higher counts than actually exist (Freedom Tower, for example, will have around 82 floors, but floor count will be 108). In those such cases, just sticking with the official count is correct. You're right anyway - Emporis can often be wrong, and official sites are always best to use as primary sources.
Raime22:54, 5 September 2007 (UTC)reply
The residence website cited as a source appears to be a dead link now. It's unclear who created the site and accuracy can't be assured. Elevator counts can also be misleading, skipping 13 for example. I agree that Emporis can be wrong, seen it before a few times, but they will usually make corrections quickly if that's the case. Anyway the threshold for Wikipedia is verifiability not truth
WP:VNT meaning it must be published by reliable sources. The CTBUH and Emporis are the most widely accepted sources for building lists, and they currently both list the Four Seasons Hotel Miami at 64 floors. This article and list should reflect that, unless or until those sources change and correct their data.
1305cj (
talk)
16:50, 27 June 2016 (UTC)reply
Tallest building south of Atlanta?
Houston is located south of Atlanta, and contains 3 buildings taller than the Four Seasons. So this information is incorrect; another instance where Emporis is wrong.
Raime22:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)reply
WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class.
BetacommandBot03:21, 9 November 2007 (UTC)reply
I added references to
Emporis, which support the claim that the building is the tallest building in Florida and the tallest residential building in the country south of Philadelphia. A tallest building in a state is not a "slender claim" of notability. --
Rai•
me17:48, 27 August 2009 (UTC)reply
AS you said above; Emporis can often be wrong, and official sites are always best to use as primary sources.. I think you meant secondary sources.
Jezhotwells (
talk)
23:46, 27 August 2009 (UTC)reply
It certainly does not plagiarize; look at where those websites are - blogs and forums that are pretty obviously taking the information directly from the Emporis site, not the other way around. Other websites use Emporis as a source; it is frequently
cited as an authority on building data in the media, and has been demonstrated reliable at FLC several times. When I stated the above, I was referring only to the floor count - there is consensus at
WP:SKY to use the official height stated by the developer for the floor count of the building in articles. And anyone can create an account, but only verified editors can submit information to the building entries after it has been approved. --
Rai•
me13:30, 28 August 2009 (UTC)reply
I just registered myself, and it clearly states that any information submitted by all users will only be published on the website if the "Emporis community" (confirmed editors that have been on the website for years) verify the information you present. However, I will keep looking for other sources, as this particular building has been featured in several news articles. --
Rai•
me13:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)reply
Did you actually change data in building entries? I am curious, as newly registered users have never been able to do this before. --
Rai•
me14:04, 28 August 2009 (UTC)reply
In the past, all users must have their contributions verified by Emporis senior editors before any information is posted; if this is still the case, I do not see why the site is unreliable. I opened discussion about the reliability of Emporis at
Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Reliability of Emporis in building articles, as this issue goes far beyond this article - Emporis is used as a source in many building articles and lists. So far, one editor has responded with "Quite reliable for the U.S., but there you can easily find better printed sources." Print sources would be better, but in some cases are not widely available for non-notable buildings without articles that are still included in lists of tallest buildings. Note that the first link you gave above,
CTBUH, which is widely regarded as the major skyscraper resource on the web,
has a partnership with Emporis to use its building database information. But anyway, for this particular article, I believe the above links are suitable to use (except for the last one, which just appears to be an advertisement). Cheers,
Rai•
me23:35, 28 August 2009 (UTC)reply