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I've always heard that the site of Fort McLoughlin has never been precisely determined; only that it was on Milbanke Sound. Is there more recent research? Skookum1 ( talk) 16:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Mackie may cite the Nuxalk as the main group that traded at Fort McLoughlin but that isn't clear from reading Tolmie. Many of the names of people described in Tolmie later amalgamated and are no longer known by the earlier name. The site of the fort is within Heiltsuk Territory and trade was conducted with a wide range of people. I would challenge the notion that the traders were primarily dealing with the Nuxalk. EVanIsdaitxv ( talk) 23:11, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
19th Century tribe names are an eclectic mix of now-archaic spellings and obsolete terms:
I added Kwakwaka'wakw after "Quaghcuils" but in those times the Wuikinuxv were called "Northern Kwakiutl" so it's hard to know who Tolmie is talking about; the particular Kwagu'ł subgroup of the Kwakwaka'wakw could also be meant, rather than all of them. The "Wacash tribe of Milbank Sound" would be, I'm pretty sure, the Heiltsuk rather than the Wuikinuxv but I guess I should look at the map before being so sure of that; "bela hoola" is standard old-style for Bella Coola/Nuxalk. "Oyalla" would have to be the Wuikinuxv (aka Owekeeno, whose language is Ooweykala/Wuikyala). "Chichysh" - now there's one I haven't heard before and can't think of an equivalent; maybe OldManRivers might have a clue on that one; there's a CJ word meaning "knife" that's similar but "Knife Indians" means the Nlaka'pamux who were southern Interior and didnt' have canoes....might be an extinct Haida or Tsimshian group..... Skookum1 ( talk) 16:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
There might be a tempalte for Hudson's Bay Company posts, and there's no WP:Fur trade (and I don't have the energy to start one), but a {{ Fur trade posts in the Columbia District and New Caledonia}} seems like a good idea now, or mabye {{ Fur trade posts in the Pacific Northwest}} so as to include PFC and RAC and items like Fort Defiance. Thoughts? Skookum1 ( talk) 16:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
This should have something really good on McLoughlin as well as Taku/Durham and Stikine and maybe Tongass and probably Fort Rupert and certainly Ft Simpson: The fur trade in northwestern development, Frederic W. Howay (1917). Enjoy, I'll dig through the Begg and Howay at historica.ca to find stuff on McLoughlin, there's quite a bit; if you happen to come across any mention fo Fort Berens I've started the article; Fort Dallas (Fraser Canyon) could probably also use starting at some point...but likewise Forts Hope and Yale, or at least suitable sections expanded in those town articles; Ovid Allard's quite the character, keep your eyes open, also Francis Ermatinger (sometimes spelled Frances).. Skookum1 ( talk) 03:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
The "Wacash of Milbank Sound" may refer to an extinct group of Heiltsuk; I've designated the Xaixais but smoe more digging may turn up someone else. It's interesting there's no mention of the Smith Inlet people, but maybe that's the branch of the Owekeeno at that area that's meant by "Oyalla" (which is clearly Wakashan in anture by that -ala ending). What I wanted to note is that nearby to the Fort and/or Bella Bella are the Haida Islands and Athabaskan Island ( "Athabaskan Island". BC Geographical Names.) and the Haida Islands ( "Haida Islands". BC Geographical Names.). Although BCGNIS says nothing about these name origins, the Haida Islands probably get their name either from a regular encampment in the area, either to trade with Fort McLoughlin or as a resting place on their raiding journeys southward; the Athabaskans might be the Testsaut but I haven't heard of them having their own canoes or venturing outside their home turf (the head of the Portland Canal). No Tsilhqot'in or Carrier/Dakelh peoples that I know of had canoes or could have accessed this area without one (escept as slaves). Somewhere also there's an account of the uneasy relations between the Bella Bellas and the Bella Coolas during this period; the population figures here also shoudl find their way onto the Bella Bella and bella Coola community/reserve pages. Skookum1 ( talk) 20:21, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||
|
I've always heard that the site of Fort McLoughlin has never been precisely determined; only that it was on Milbanke Sound. Is there more recent research? Skookum1 ( talk) 16:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
Mackie may cite the Nuxalk as the main group that traded at Fort McLoughlin but that isn't clear from reading Tolmie. Many of the names of people described in Tolmie later amalgamated and are no longer known by the earlier name. The site of the fort is within Heiltsuk Territory and trade was conducted with a wide range of people. I would challenge the notion that the traders were primarily dealing with the Nuxalk. EVanIsdaitxv ( talk) 23:11, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
19th Century tribe names are an eclectic mix of now-archaic spellings and obsolete terms:
I added Kwakwaka'wakw after "Quaghcuils" but in those times the Wuikinuxv were called "Northern Kwakiutl" so it's hard to know who Tolmie is talking about; the particular Kwagu'ł subgroup of the Kwakwaka'wakw could also be meant, rather than all of them. The "Wacash tribe of Milbank Sound" would be, I'm pretty sure, the Heiltsuk rather than the Wuikinuxv but I guess I should look at the map before being so sure of that; "bela hoola" is standard old-style for Bella Coola/Nuxalk. "Oyalla" would have to be the Wuikinuxv (aka Owekeeno, whose language is Ooweykala/Wuikyala). "Chichysh" - now there's one I haven't heard before and can't think of an equivalent; maybe OldManRivers might have a clue on that one; there's a CJ word meaning "knife" that's similar but "Knife Indians" means the Nlaka'pamux who were southern Interior and didnt' have canoes....might be an extinct Haida or Tsimshian group..... Skookum1 ( talk) 16:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
There might be a tempalte for Hudson's Bay Company posts, and there's no WP:Fur trade (and I don't have the energy to start one), but a {{ Fur trade posts in the Columbia District and New Caledonia}} seems like a good idea now, or mabye {{ Fur trade posts in the Pacific Northwest}} so as to include PFC and RAC and items like Fort Defiance. Thoughts? Skookum1 ( talk) 16:19, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
This should have something really good on McLoughlin as well as Taku/Durham and Stikine and maybe Tongass and probably Fort Rupert and certainly Ft Simpson: The fur trade in northwestern development, Frederic W. Howay (1917). Enjoy, I'll dig through the Begg and Howay at historica.ca to find stuff on McLoughlin, there's quite a bit; if you happen to come across any mention fo Fort Berens I've started the article; Fort Dallas (Fraser Canyon) could probably also use starting at some point...but likewise Forts Hope and Yale, or at least suitable sections expanded in those town articles; Ovid Allard's quite the character, keep your eyes open, also Francis Ermatinger (sometimes spelled Frances).. Skookum1 ( talk) 03:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
The "Wacash of Milbank Sound" may refer to an extinct group of Heiltsuk; I've designated the Xaixais but smoe more digging may turn up someone else. It's interesting there's no mention of the Smith Inlet people, but maybe that's the branch of the Owekeeno at that area that's meant by "Oyalla" (which is clearly Wakashan in anture by that -ala ending). What I wanted to note is that nearby to the Fort and/or Bella Bella are the Haida Islands and Athabaskan Island ( "Athabaskan Island". BC Geographical Names.) and the Haida Islands ( "Haida Islands". BC Geographical Names.). Although BCGNIS says nothing about these name origins, the Haida Islands probably get their name either from a regular encampment in the area, either to trade with Fort McLoughlin or as a resting place on their raiding journeys southward; the Athabaskans might be the Testsaut but I haven't heard of them having their own canoes or venturing outside their home turf (the head of the Portland Canal). No Tsilhqot'in or Carrier/Dakelh peoples that I know of had canoes or could have accessed this area without one (escept as slaves). Somewhere also there's an account of the uneasy relations between the Bella Bellas and the Bella Coolas during this period; the population figures here also shoudl find their way onto the Bella Bella and bella Coola community/reserve pages. Skookum1 ( talk) 20:21, 17 October 2009 (UTC)