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Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: No consensus. Those who argue that Fort Andres Bonifacio should be moved to Fort Bonifacio might have a point. But it's not so easy to decide what to do with the present article at
Fort Bonifacio. It covers both the military fort and the nearby development and is rather informative. I suggest that a further discussion might take place at
Talk:Fort Bonifacio on how to reorganize the material.
EdJohnston (
talk)
04:40, 30 June 2014 (UTC)reply
– Fort Bonifacio is the
WP:COMMONNAME for the Philippine Army headquarters and is almost never called by its "full name", just like other military camps in the city
Camp Aguinaldo and
Camp Atienza are never called Camp Emilio Aguinaldo or Camp Rigoberto Atienza. The business district that grew out of parts of the Fort is also becoming known more these days as Bonifacio Global City or its popular nickname BGC as its
official website advertises. --Relisted.ArmbrustTheHomunculus 11:10, 8 June 2014 (UTC) --
RioHondo (
talk)
16:18, 1 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose instead use
Fort Bonifacio (military), unless you are saying that Fort Bonifacio rarely refers to Bonifacio Global City (which doesn't seem to be the case in your nomination rationale) ? Otherwise, the two are competitive for the same title, so should become a disambiguation page, not forgetting the fortress in Corsica that grew into the city of
Bonifacio, Corse-du-Sud, and other uses in the Philippines. --
65.94.171.126 (
talk)
08:21, 9 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Actually, it is a simple case of present and former use. The redeveloped area of the military reservation is now popularly and officially called Bonifacio Global City, just like
Clark Freeport Zone with
Clark Air Base or
Subic Bay Freeport Zone with
Subic Bay Naval Base. Although there are people that still refer to those areas by their former names up to this day, those articles clearly talk about their present status as financial/industrial districts or successfully converted military bases, hence there is a need to use the new names given by the
Bases Conversion and Development Authority of the Philippines
1 which administers these districts, while the military bases or forts keep the old names. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC does not apply in this case. As for the fortress in
Bonifacio, Corse-du-Sud, i think the wp:commonname for it is the Bonifacio Citadel or in french, Citadelle de Bonifacio or Bonifacio Haute Ville.--
RioHondo (
talk)
12:42, 9 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Also, there's also a barangay in Taguig called "Fort Bonifacio" that contains both BGC and the actual military installation. –HTD13:42, 9 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Hey HTD, exactly, as per official website and BCDA, Bonifacio Global City or BGC is the redeveloped portion of the military Fort Bonifacio which constitutes a barangay of the same name in Taguig, and what is called Post Proper North and Post Proper South in Makati. Fort Bonifacio, as it is, is used to refer to the Philippine Army camp headquarters, which covers all areas in those barangays that are not yet open to private developers, including portions of barangays Western Bicutan and Pinagsama in Taguig, which are already outside the disputed zone of BGC. So its just like Clark Air Base which remains a Philippine Air Force facility with Clark Freeport Zone occupying the developed areas of the air base spanning several barangays in Angeles and Mabalacat. Another example:
Villamor Air Base and
Newport City, Philippines. --
RioHondo (
talk)
15:24, 9 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I think redirecting
Fort Bonifacio to
Fort Andres Bonifacio while moving the business district's content to
Bonifacio Global City would suffice for now. IMO, a disambiguation page is not necessary as the two articles are related. And I also will be carrying out the following changes to the articles to make them more accurate:
2. Move the McKinley Hill section to an entirely new article. McKinley Hill is outside the disputed BGC as it is located in Barangay Pinagsama, Taguig.
Btw, the barangay
Fort Bonifacio, Taguig can redirect to
Bonifacio Global City as they are one and the same. What the article creator does not know is that the barangay does not cover the entire military base which spans three barangays in Taguig actually with the majority of the military installations not in Fort Bonifacio but in Western Bicutan and Pinagsama!
Makati Post Proper North and
Makati Post Proper South can also redirect to
Bonifacio Global City. As far as the disputed BGC is concerned, it only covers the following zones: North Bonifacio, Forbes Town, Uptown Bonifacio, and McKinley West. The rest is undisputedly
Taguig1.--
RioHondo (
talk)
04:30, 15 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I'd oppose leaving an article at "
Fort Andres Bonifacio". No one calls any place by that exact name (For example, this conversation never happened: "Hey dude, you heard about that fire on Fort Andres Bonifacio?"). –HTD17:41, 15 June 2014 (UTC)reply
To "Fort Bonifacio". Also, Makati still possesses some parts of Barangay Post Proper North. There's a barangay hall at Lawton Ave., so redirecting Post Proper North to Bonifacio Global City is wrong. Dunno for Post Proper South. –HTD11:57, 16 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Btw, the
barangay hall that you mentioned, it does serve Makati's Post Proper Northside but is actually located within Barangay
West Rembo according to Google maps/wikimapia. Who knows where the barangay hall is for Post Proper South, maybe in Barangay
Dasmariñas Village. :) I think its called extraterritorial jurisdiction, Binay-style. --
RioHondo (
talk)
16:54, 16 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I dunno about extraterritoriality but I know for a fact that Makati owns some piece of Post Proper North. I dunno if the barangay hall was erected after the place was "awarded" to Taguig. –HTD20:58, 16 June 2014 (UTC)reply
FWIW, OpenStreetMap has this area, which is mostly the stretch of Lawton Avenue including Makati City Jail, in Barangay Post Proper North. You can walk around what's left of Makati's Post Proper North in 30 minutes. The extraterritoriality bit doesn't make any sense. Binay may be hated by some sectors of society and will be deposed if elected in 2016 (haha), but let's give him benefit of the doubt in this regard. Also, from what I know, that are several parts of the EMBO barangays that are
exclaves because of this mess. –HTD23:46, 16 June 2014 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
This redirect is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the
full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles
This redirect is within the scope of WikiProject Tambayan Philippines, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics related to the
Philippines on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Tambayan PhilippinesWikipedia:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesTemplate:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesPhilippine-related articles
This redirect has been rated as Mid-importance on the
importance scale.
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: No consensus. Those who argue that Fort Andres Bonifacio should be moved to Fort Bonifacio might have a point. But it's not so easy to decide what to do with the present article at
Fort Bonifacio. It covers both the military fort and the nearby development and is rather informative. I suggest that a further discussion might take place at
Talk:Fort Bonifacio on how to reorganize the material.
EdJohnston (
talk)
04:40, 30 June 2014 (UTC)reply
– Fort Bonifacio is the
WP:COMMONNAME for the Philippine Army headquarters and is almost never called by its "full name", just like other military camps in the city
Camp Aguinaldo and
Camp Atienza are never called Camp Emilio Aguinaldo or Camp Rigoberto Atienza. The business district that grew out of parts of the Fort is also becoming known more these days as Bonifacio Global City or its popular nickname BGC as its
official website advertises. --Relisted.ArmbrustTheHomunculus 11:10, 8 June 2014 (UTC) --
RioHondo (
talk)
16:18, 1 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Oppose instead use
Fort Bonifacio (military), unless you are saying that Fort Bonifacio rarely refers to Bonifacio Global City (which doesn't seem to be the case in your nomination rationale) ? Otherwise, the two are competitive for the same title, so should become a disambiguation page, not forgetting the fortress in Corsica that grew into the city of
Bonifacio, Corse-du-Sud, and other uses in the Philippines. --
65.94.171.126 (
talk)
08:21, 9 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Actually, it is a simple case of present and former use. The redeveloped area of the military reservation is now popularly and officially called Bonifacio Global City, just like
Clark Freeport Zone with
Clark Air Base or
Subic Bay Freeport Zone with
Subic Bay Naval Base. Although there are people that still refer to those areas by their former names up to this day, those articles clearly talk about their present status as financial/industrial districts or successfully converted military bases, hence there is a need to use the new names given by the
Bases Conversion and Development Authority of the Philippines
1 which administers these districts, while the military bases or forts keep the old names. WP:PRIMARYTOPIC does not apply in this case. As for the fortress in
Bonifacio, Corse-du-Sud, i think the wp:commonname for it is the Bonifacio Citadel or in french, Citadelle de Bonifacio or Bonifacio Haute Ville.--
RioHondo (
talk)
12:42, 9 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Also, there's also a barangay in Taguig called "Fort Bonifacio" that contains both BGC and the actual military installation. –HTD13:42, 9 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Hey HTD, exactly, as per official website and BCDA, Bonifacio Global City or BGC is the redeveloped portion of the military Fort Bonifacio which constitutes a barangay of the same name in Taguig, and what is called Post Proper North and Post Proper South in Makati. Fort Bonifacio, as it is, is used to refer to the Philippine Army camp headquarters, which covers all areas in those barangays that are not yet open to private developers, including portions of barangays Western Bicutan and Pinagsama in Taguig, which are already outside the disputed zone of BGC. So its just like Clark Air Base which remains a Philippine Air Force facility with Clark Freeport Zone occupying the developed areas of the air base spanning several barangays in Angeles and Mabalacat. Another example:
Villamor Air Base and
Newport City, Philippines. --
RioHondo (
talk)
15:24, 9 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I think redirecting
Fort Bonifacio to
Fort Andres Bonifacio while moving the business district's content to
Bonifacio Global City would suffice for now. IMO, a disambiguation page is not necessary as the two articles are related. And I also will be carrying out the following changes to the articles to make them more accurate:
2. Move the McKinley Hill section to an entirely new article. McKinley Hill is outside the disputed BGC as it is located in Barangay Pinagsama, Taguig.
Btw, the barangay
Fort Bonifacio, Taguig can redirect to
Bonifacio Global City as they are one and the same. What the article creator does not know is that the barangay does not cover the entire military base which spans three barangays in Taguig actually with the majority of the military installations not in Fort Bonifacio but in Western Bicutan and Pinagsama!
Makati Post Proper North and
Makati Post Proper South can also redirect to
Bonifacio Global City. As far as the disputed BGC is concerned, it only covers the following zones: North Bonifacio, Forbes Town, Uptown Bonifacio, and McKinley West. The rest is undisputedly
Taguig1.--
RioHondo (
talk)
04:30, 15 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I'd oppose leaving an article at "
Fort Andres Bonifacio". No one calls any place by that exact name (For example, this conversation never happened: "Hey dude, you heard about that fire on Fort Andres Bonifacio?"). –HTD17:41, 15 June 2014 (UTC)reply
To "Fort Bonifacio". Also, Makati still possesses some parts of Barangay Post Proper North. There's a barangay hall at Lawton Ave., so redirecting Post Proper North to Bonifacio Global City is wrong. Dunno for Post Proper South. –HTD11:57, 16 June 2014 (UTC)reply
Btw, the
barangay hall that you mentioned, it does serve Makati's Post Proper Northside but is actually located within Barangay
West Rembo according to Google maps/wikimapia. Who knows where the barangay hall is for Post Proper South, maybe in Barangay
Dasmariñas Village. :) I think its called extraterritorial jurisdiction, Binay-style. --
RioHondo (
talk)
16:54, 16 June 2014 (UTC)reply
I dunno about extraterritoriality but I know for a fact that Makati owns some piece of Post Proper North. I dunno if the barangay hall was erected after the place was "awarded" to Taguig. –HTD20:58, 16 June 2014 (UTC)reply
FWIW, OpenStreetMap has this area, which is mostly the stretch of Lawton Avenue including Makati City Jail, in Barangay Post Proper North. You can walk around what's left of Makati's Post Proper North in 30 minutes. The extraterritoriality bit doesn't make any sense. Binay may be hated by some sectors of society and will be deposed if elected in 2016 (haha), but let's give him benefit of the doubt in this regard. Also, from what I know, that are several parts of the EMBO barangays that are
exclaves because of this mess. –HTD23:46, 16 June 2014 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.