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Some records need to be added, for example, I have just linked from Lionel Messi's article to here for the youngest La Liga appearance and scorer (records which now belong to Bojan Krkić I believe). Can anyone dig up the sources for this? I think this article/list could become very interesting and well sourced. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) 18:56, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
The pages "Football records in England" and "Football records in Italy" include the victories of this cup (forerunner of the Uefa Cup, now Europa League). So also this page has to include them (Barcelona 3 victories, Valencia 2, Real Zaragoza 1). Physiology, 16:25 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I have include the fairs cup in the article, its an FIFA official competition (Congress of London in 1955), you can to verify this in official site of Real Zaragoza and Valencia CF (honours) and in FCB web in the in the paragraph of news, If someone needs sources I will incluire the pertinent links.-- Sporting1905 ( talk) 01:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Copa Eva Duarte is the forerunner to the Spanish SuperCup, it was organized by Real Federacion Española de Fútbol, its an official title. The trophy was given by Eva Duarte Perón and and of there it name.-- Sporting1905 ( talk) 01:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
They are not official ( see UEFA.com and LFP.es). -- KSA connect 01:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Fairs Cup isn't UEFA competition but is an official competition:
uefa.com: [1]: "Los dos equipos sólo se han enfrentado en una ocasión en competición oficial, en la primera ronda de la Copa de Ferias ..."
LFP: [2]: FCB Palmarés (Honours); 3 Copas de la UEFA: 1958,1960,1966 (Fairs Cup)
Two primary sources! -- Sporting1905 ( talk) 22:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
All you need, when you speak about Spanish Football, is Barcelona, not Real Madrid, because "El Barça es mes que un club". So in the Barcelona palmares is "The Fairs Cup", that it was more than an "unofficial Uefa competition".
I love Barça jerseys more than Ibrahimovic and I have a message for the Real Madrid fans. We must break the ass to you!!! Physiology, 09:25, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
And then (for KSA) you must insert the UEFA Intertoto Cup victories in the table, because it was an official UEFA compeetition. When the Fairs Cup started the UEFA did not enter in the project for 16 years (from 1955 to 1971). The trophy was consigned to the winning teams by the FIFA President of that period (Sir Stanley Rous). Physiology 14:40, 09 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, the Intertoto Cup was a summer tournament, could you explain it to Dante Peruvian?
1. Los Campeonatos Nacionales de Liga de Primera, Segunda, Segunda B y Tercera División (Spanish Football Championships from First to Third Divition).
2. El Campeonato de España/Copa de S.M. el Rey (Spanish Cup).
3. La Supercopa (Spanish Super Cup).
4. La Copa RFEF (Spanish League Cup).
Also, the entity recognise official UEFA and FIFA competitions as equivalent to "statal championships".
Where is included in that document the Fairs Cup as "official" competition?
As Fairs Cups is not an UEFA club competicion, RFEF not recognise Fairs Cup as "official" cup, sorry...-- Dantetheperuvian ( talk) 00:47, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
In fact, we are speaking of a competition recognized by FIFA, not by UEFA. We explained it at least one hundred times. I don't think you don't understand: more probably, you are only a troll. -- 79.45.155.132 ( talk) 01:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
To IPs see
UEFA Cup: All-time finals - UEFA.com
Fairs Cup
‘‘The UEFA Cup replaced the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup in the 1971/72 season. The list of finals from that competition are listed below, but please note that the Fairs Cup is not considered a UEFA competition, and hence clubs' records in the Fairs Cup are not considered part of their European record.’’
NOTE: The Inter-Cities Fairs Cup also took place from 1955 to 1971 but not as an official UEFA competition.
Good luck. KSA connect 10:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
1. Los Campeonatos Nacionales de Liga de Primera, Segunda, Segunda B y Tercera División (Spanish Football Championships from First to Third Divition).
2. El Campeonato de España/Copa de S.M. el Rey (Spanish Cup).
3. La Supercopa (Spanish Super Cup).
4. La Copa RFEF (Spanish League Cup).
Also, the entity recognise official UEFA and FIFA competitions as equivalent to "statal championships". And please stop trying to make your idea is correct only, while ignoring the rest of the official source. KSA connect 07:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
‘‘The list of clubs or the opinions expressed in the articles do not necessarily represent the views of FIFA, unless expressly stated otherwise.’’
and you spanish uefa link doesn't work.
KSA
connect
17:26, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Dante, la Copa de la RFEF no es la Copa de la Liga sino la Copa Federación, así que por favor no trates de confundir al personal, la Copa de Ferias es la misma competición que la Europa League, otra cosa es que cambiara de nombre al hacerse la UEFA cargo de ella, que la UEFA no la considere "UEFA competition" al no estar organizada por ella es perfectamente lógico, pero no quiere decir que no sea la misma competición, por ejemplo el Barca de Baloncesto gano la Copa de Europa en 2002 y actualmente la ULEB no la reconoce ya que durante unos años no la organizao ella sino los clubs, por tanto el Barca de basket no es campeon de Europa? no es la misma competicion que la que jugara la Final Four a final de temporada?-- Sporting1905 ( talk) 21:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
FC Barcelona has won the FIFA Club World Cup. Could the administrators modify the voice and add this victory in Barça honours? N.B. I hate Real Madrid and the madrid's fans. This club is the scum of football, such as Juventus in italy and i'm italian. For Dante the peruvian: UEFA is a criminal organization. Thank you. Physiology, 09:55, 20 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Physiology ( talk • contribs)
A message for the administrators: you have to update the table of records with the victory of FC Barcelona in the FIFA Club World Cup. Thank you. Physiology 11:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Physiology ( talk • contribs)
Please, how can protect this part of the page? Thank you. It's under attack. It's very important. Stop edit wars. Physiology, 12:10 20 April 2010 (UTC). I confirm the request. It's very important. Physiology, 11.50 25 May 2010 (UTC). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Physiology ( talk • contribs)
Why Copa Eva Duarte is not considered in "Most successful clubs overall (1902 – present)" section?-- Xtv - ( my talk) - ( que dius que què?) 09:21, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
It's not official by RFEF & UEFA. Why you add it now not before some year? because you just want your team on top in a hurry way? Also Why you don't add Latin Cup and some unofficial tournment like what you added Fairs cup and Eva Duarte. For more See
Also you can see above #From RFEF statutes or I will copy it here>
* According to Tit. VI, chapter. II, section 1, art. 29 bis, paragraph 1, pag.19 of RFEF statutes, RFEF, the governing body of football in Spain ONLY recognise as "official football tournaments" at national level:
1. Los Campeonatos Nacionales de Liga de Primera, Segunda, Segunda B y Tercera División (Spanish Football Championships from First to Third Divition).
2. El Campeonato de España/Copa de S.M. el Rey (Spanish Cup).
3. La Supercopa (Spanish Super Cup).
4. La Copa RFEF (Spanish League Cup).
Additional comments |
---|
Also, the entity recognise official UEFA and FIFA competitions as equivalent to "statal championships".
Where is included in that document the Fairs Cup as "official" competition? As Fairs Cups is not an UEFA club competicion, RFEF not recognise Fairs Cup as "official" cup, sorry...-- Dantetheperuvian ( talk) 00:47, 1 November 2009 (UTC) In fact, we are speaking of a competition recognized by FIFA, not by UEFA. We explained it at least one hundred times. I don't think you don't understand: more probably, you are only a troll. -- 79.45.155.132 ( talk) 01:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
To IPs see
UEFA Cup: All-time finals - UEFA.com Good luck. KSA connect 10:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
1. Los Campeonatos Nacionales de Liga de Primera, Segunda, Segunda B y Tercera División (Spanish Football Championships from First to Third Divition). Also, the entity recognise official UEFA and FIFA competitions as equivalent to "statal championships". And please stop trying to make your idea is correct only, while ignoring the rest of the official source. KSA connect 07:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
‘‘The list of clubs or the opinions expressed in the articles do not necessarily represent the views of FIFA, unless expressly stated otherwise.’’
Dante, la Copa de la RFEF no es la Copa de la Liga sino la Copa Federación, así que por favor no trates de confundir al personal, la Copa de Ferias es la misma competición que la Europa League, otra cosa es que cambiara de nombre al hacerse la UEFA cargo de ella, que la UEFA no la considere "UEFA competition" al no estar organizada por ella es perfectamente lógico, pero no quiere decir que no sea la misma competición, por ejemplo el Barca de Baloncesto gano la Copa de Europa en 2002 y actualmente la ULEB no la reconoce ya que durante unos años no la organizao ella sino los clubs, por tanto el Barca de basket no es campeon de Europa? no es la misma competicion que la que jugara la Final Four a final de temporada?-- Sporting1905 ( talk) 21:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
|
See this RFEF - we are not limited to what RFEF consider official. This is a list of all the competitions at that time considered prestigious and open for all. Sandman888 ( talk) Latest PR 07:50, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
But this does not mean it the same or even under the supervision of the Spanish Federation, and if your conclusion on this are right, that would mean adding more tournaments that are similar to current one like Latin Cup. Also this list include only the official not prestigious like what you get it from that article. Q for you: Are These trophies you added in official? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.48.125.80 ( talk) 12:46, 26 August 2010 (UTC) What do you mean by official? RFEF is not the only football organisation in the world, and the Copa Eva Duarte was a Spanish first-team competition just like the rest of them. Sandman888 ( talk) 08:56, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Only officia title can added that organized by official bodies : Spanish (RFEF), European (UEFA) and Worldwidw (FIFA).
RSSSF is only organization dedicated to collecting statistics, using contributors from around the world, so of info is not perfect sourced or uncompleted. So we have official organization we don't need secondary source that include some ideas.-- 188.49.1.140 ( talk) 13:26, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
I think both should be in, but the Duarte is another issue IMO. But the Fairs Cup is 100% legit, the fact it's being argued is ridiculous, the FIGC, the Italian Footballing Body agree it should be added to domestic teams honours (go to football records of italy and go to the link next to Roma in the table) and also go to the OFFICIAL La Liga website, LFP, both in Valencia and Barcelona's records the Fairs Cup is added. Who cares that UEFA don't recognise it as part of THEIR record...but it's still a competition to is added to European records and domestic records, just not UEFA records, because well shock, horror...UEFA never hosted it, so they have a reason to not add it to their records. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.155.106.196 ( talk) 19:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Also yo have write Fewest defeats in total, Real Sociedad, 38 matches (78/79 -6, 79/80, 32).-- 88.19.64.233 ( talk) 16:59, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
For clarification, and to homogenize the criteria surrounding the number of domestic, international and overall titles of Spanish clubs I would like to point out the following:
1) The Copa Eva Duarte WAS a official competition, as it was organized by the Royal Spanish Football Federation, a member of UEFA (see the Cup's page for references), preceding the current Spanish Super Cup (see the Cup's page for references)
2) The Copa de la Liga WAS also a official competition, as it was also organized, even if briefly, by the Royal Spanish Football Federation, again, a member of UEFA, as an alternative to the more established Copa del Rey (see the Cup's page for references)
3) The Inter-Cities Fairs Cup WAS NOT a official competition, even if it preceded the UEFA Cup and Europa League tournaments, as it was not organized by UEFA, but by private individuals and organizations to promote trade fairs in Europe (see the Cup's page for references)
It is clear that the above-mentioned are the correct, objective criteria for official tournaments, and they are the ones currently in use in the overall trophies table. It was updated by someone else (unknown to me), but given that this is usually a misunderstood issue I thought it important to clarify and substantiate the used criteria.
MarkamBey ( talk) 10:40, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi Sandman,
I see that you have updated the overall trophies table including the Inter-Cities Fair Cup but not the Eva Duarte Cup, I guess it is a misunderstanding? I will now revert the table to the previous version which abided to the objective criteria explained above (UEFA or RFEF recognition), i.e. which included Eva Duarte Cups but not Inter-Cities Fair Cups.
MarkamBey ( talk) 11:54, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
I have updated the overall titles table per the above criteria, including footnotes in each competition explaning which titles within which dates are included, and why it is so, i.e. because only official titles recognized by RFEF, UEFA or FIFA are included. Please revise and correct if necessary, but I think that all figures are correct. In any clase, please do not change criteria without discussin her first, as the currently used ones are the objective, verifiable ones.
MarkamBey ( talk) 13:13, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
The number of Supercopas for F.C. Barcelona was increased to 14 from my previous edit of 13. Please realize that the correct number, using current criteria of "official" competitions as organized/recognized , is 13 = 10 Supercopas proper + 3 Copa Eva Duarte, as the fourth was won by F.C. Barcelona when it was still not an official tournament organized by the RFEF. These criteria are currently under discussion here and on club articles' discussion pages, but please do not further edit until criteria are changed, to avoid mistakes (double counting, etc.).
MarkamBey ( talk) 02:01, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
MarkamBey ( talk) 16:25, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Dear all,
As you might have observed if you have read the full discussion page of this article and the discussion pages of some clubs such as F.C. Barcelona, the classification of competitions into official and unofficial is far from trivial and raises some tricky questions. To encourage debate and homogenize criteria I list those questions below, together with the answer which I deem more fit and my justification for it, please contribute with your opinions and/or other questions that you deem important.
1) Should we list only official titles, or all of them?
My take is that we should only list official titles, not all of them, to avoid the "noise" of friendly matches, friendly trophies, etc.
2) What is an official title?
This is very tricky, but if we are trying to abide by objective criteria when classifying competitions into official and unofficial, in my view the only clear-cut way to classify competitions is whether they are officialy recognized by RFEF if they are domestic, by UEFA if they are European, and by FIFA if they are International. This leaves some gray areas, such as the Latin Cup, but solves most of the problem. As an example, the Latin Cup would be unofficial under this definition (it is not a domestic competition, even if it was organized, partly, by the RFEF), and the same goes for Inter-Cities Fairs Cup (it is a european competition, but it was not organized nor is recognized by UEFA). On the contrary, the Copa Eva Duarte from 1947 to 1953 and the Copa de la Liga are official competitions under this definition, since they were domestic competitions organized by the RFEF (note that the first editions of the Copa Eva Duarte under other names, prior to 1947, are not official under this definition, since they were not organized nor are recognized by the RFEF).
Again, that is my take, but I stand to be corrected if you find better criteria/arguments. In any case, please contribute.
MarkamBey ( talk) 02:33, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
PS Unknown editors of this article https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_confederation_and_inter-confederation_club_competition_winners also seem to adopt the above view (Inter-Cities Fairs Cup is considered as unofficial, while Latin Cup is not even mentioned).
MarkamBey ( talk) 02:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I have included a note about this and reorganized the overall titles table accordingly. MarkamBey ( talk) 16:34, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
After reviewing all the feedback from current and previous discussions, I still believe that according to objective, verifiable sources the Inter-Cities Fairs Cups should not be included in the overall titles table. However, as many have pointed out, it is a very close call, and for the sake of objectivity and completeness, I only consider it fair to include a brief reference of the non-inclusion criteria in the article itself, including sources, so that the reader has all the information if she or he reads the article with attention. This is the reference that I have included both after the introduction mentioning that only "official" titles are included, and in the UEFA Europa League header itself:
"In particular, note that the UEFA Cup replaced the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup, however, as the competition was not organised by UEFA, it is not counted as an official trophy for official record purposes ( "UEFA Cup: All-time finals". UEFA.com. Retrieved 13 July 2009.), even if it is generally considered the official predecessor of the UEFA Cup (see, for example, http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/history/index.html) and a major title (see, for example, F.C. Barcelona's profile at FIFA.com: http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/clubs/club=44217/) - F.C. Barcelona won the competition a record three times (1958, 1960, 1966), Valencia C.F. won it twice (1962,1963), and Real Zaragoza won it in one occasion (1964)."
I think that the above is a fair, substantiated and objective statement that only completes the information already provided in the article, and that might help an uninformed reader understand the issues surrounding the Fairs Cup status. MarkamBey ( talk) 17:29, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
MarkamBey ( talk) 17:42, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
I have included one more reference in the introduction to the overall titles table to clarify why competitions such as the Latin Cup are not included: they were organized by RFEF together with other national-level federations, however it was a European competition, and as such per the current criteria it would be only considered as "official" and included in the overall titles table if it had been organized by UEFA. Again, I think that current criteria are objective and easily verifiable, in compliance with Wikipedia regulations, but I am open to discussion and stand to be corrected if necessary, just please be coherent and justify your points with verifiable, valid references. MarkamBey ( talk) 18:16, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't want to open a can of worms, so I would like to propose this here before making any changes, but someone pointed to me that the Intercontinental Cup was a worldwide competition not organized by FIFA (it was organized by UEFA and CONMEBOL), and that it would therefore not qualify for inclussion in the table per the current criteria.
In particular, if we do include the Intercontinental Cup, it does look difficult to reject the inclusion of the Latin Cup, since it was a European competition organized by national federations, a case analogous to the Latin Cup.
Also, it is slight more tangent, but this also complicates the case for not including the Fairs Cup, since although it is a European competition it seems to be recognized by FIFA (although it was not organized by any national federation, UEFA or FIFA, which makes the decision trickier).
So,... should we eliminate the Intercontinental Cup and just count FIFA Club World Cup as worldwide competitions, or on the contrary include the Latin Cup as well in the table? If the latter, should we also include Fairs Cup?
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated, as I hadn't realized this issue with the Intercontinental Cup which makes the question of which competitions to include much more harder than I thought. MarkamBey ( talk) 00:51, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
This guy repedely delete sourced material from this page, removing well established records because they belong to FC Barcelona. I think he/she is a Real madrid fan obsessed with all reords that belong to FC Barcelona. The records are sourced and recognized by the organizing body of the league. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.255.81 ( talk) 22:51, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
And about citations, do you realize how many citations would have to be added, I can add exact sources to every record on this page but then you would end up with an enormous amount of citations, easily several hundreds of them, for FC Barcelonas 39 win streak alone there would be 39 citations, do you realize how stupid that is?.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.255.81 ( talk) 00:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
While it can be agreeable to include the Copa Eva Duarte, Inter Cities fairs cup was a tournmanent where many teams from the Liga including Athletic Bilbao , Real Madrid and almost all of the Spanish football clubs did not participate. You cannot compare teams when some teams have played in a tournament and some have not. So I do not think it is right to include Inter cities fairs cup. Otherwise other teams will claim any other tournaments they have played where others have not! This will just be a mess. Plus, Inter cities is not recognized by FIFA. Seaboy123 ( talk) 16:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
First of all you have already been banned once on Wikipedia but have know reappeared with a new nickname.(according to your own page, so I would stop threatening other members on Wikipedia if I was you!)
Your logic is deluded. It cannot be FC Barcelona's problem nor fault that RM was not able to compete. The fact still remains that the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup is acknowledged by UEFA as being the predecessor of the UEFA CUP. Moreover FIFA officially recognizee the trophy.
Moreover both the SPANISH and Catalan Wikipedia page both acknowledge that FC Barcelona is the most successful club in terms of domestic, international and overall trophies in Spain.
FC Barcelona leads 61-59 domestic wise and 17-15 international wise and 78-74 in terms of overall trophies.
And only trophies recognized by either RFEF, UEFA or FIFA are included in that list.-- Crashwheelx ( talk) 19:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Also, I am repeating again : "You cannot compare teams when some teams have played in a tournament and some have not. So I do not think it is right to include Inter cities fairs cup. Otherwise other teams will claim any other tournaments they have played where others have not! This will just be a mess.". Seaboy123 ( talk) 20:42, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
FIFA does recognize the Fairs Cup. You are lying right now. http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/clubs/club=44217/index.html
The Fairs Cup is included officially by FIFA as a major trophy as seen by my link so you are wrong.
Moreover the Fairs Cup is ACKNOWLEDGED by UEFA to be the predecessor of the UEFA CUP.
What regard the Copa Eva Duarte then it was founded and organized by RFEF and was the predecessor of the current Spanish Super Cup.
For proof see this discussion page and the discussion page on the FC Barcelona page. Moreover it is included in both the Spanish and Catalan Wikipedia pages (with Spanish references and sources to back it up).
I can post them to you if you like. And I am half Spanish so I am fluent in Spanish. So I would advice you to stop deleting correct information.-- Crashwheelx ( talk) 14:01, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
This article was moved to a new name with no discussion. I have undone the move in order to keep the consistency with other like articles.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 20:11, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
That is twice you make the change User:Amarru. Please, stop. This article is one in a series. (England, Germany, France, Italy, etc...)-- Coquidragon ( talk) 21:30, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Should the "Most successful clubs overall" include the Fairs Cup? I see the edit war here, the Football records in Italy page doesn't include it, but the Football records in England page does. NOTE: It is clear that the Eva Duarte Cup should be included as it was an official competition sponsored by the RFEF.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 21:14, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and changed the title to short names, using a key, in order to limit the width of the table. I've also separated Eva Duarte and Intercontinental from the SuperCup and the FIFA World Cup respectively in order to provide a more accurate view of the standings. The Fairs Cup has been taken out, not so much from what has been discussed here (although it had something to do) but so that the table is consistent with other European record tables in English Wikipedia.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 18:36, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm thinking about adding reference notes to the individual records on this page, the problem as I see it is that the reference section would be awfully long, for some records there would be multiple notes and for the entire page they would most likely add up to well over a hundred. I'll start with adding notes to the win streak records. Unfortunately since these records are mostly recently established, there are no written referernces to them in any books about Spanish football. I'll go on and use the LFP site as a start. There are many books about the history of fooball in Spain, but they usually contain records that are to old or even wrong (I've come across many errors in the books I've read, for example Lagara scoring his 3 consecutive hattricks in the season 1935-1936 when in reality it was 1934-1935, that is just one error but I've have come across tons of them). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.60.11.82 ( talk) 15:18, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
HasperHunter has been repetedly removing sourced material from this page. I say he should be banned for 24H by admins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.248.61 ( talk) 19:06, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
I'll start by saying that you have violated Wikipedia's three revert rule and if you continue doing so, you'll be blocked from wikipedia. Second, I have read all sources provided by the anonymous IP, and you are lying when you say that "Also, just so you know, 2 or 3 of the sources you provided are actually claiming ronaldo is the fastest themselves." I recommend you read the articles again. Finally, even if I ignored the sources provided by the other editor and consider only yours, with acknowledgement of WP:Verifiability, not truth (which would imply that we ought to attribute the record to CR7 as provided by your sources), WP:CALC permits us to perform the count ourselves based on the sourced goal record for Isidro Lángara
Club performance | League | |||
---|---|---|---|---|
Season | Club | League | Apps | Goals |
Spain | League | |||
1933/34 | Real Oviedo | La Liga | 18 | 26 |
1934/35 | 22 | 27 | ||
1935/36 | 21 | 28 | ||
1946/47 | 20 | 18 | ||
1947/48 | 9 | 5 | ||
Total | 90 | 104 |
If you do the Math, 104 goals in 90 games imply that he surpassed the 100 goals in 92 games for CR7. Please, stop changing the article.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 05:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Let's go in order: 1. I'm not citing Wikipedia, I just borrowed the goals table from the other article. That's Isidro Lángara's La Liga official goal count, even if you don't like it. 2. By saying that Catalunya sources are not reliable, you are showing your own bias, which doesn't help your argument. 3. You are still lying. None of the original sources provided by the other user support your position. You either don't know Spanish, or are reading with a blind's eye. 4. You say that "This data is flawed itself." This is your opinion, and it is not valid nor true. 5. The jump in years means nothing. It took Lángara 82 games, regardless of the years in between, to reach 100 goals. He was faster that CR7. 6. It took CR7 less seasons than Lágara? Agreed, but that's not what we are talking about, nor any sources back this claim, not even yours. The record and the sources talk about amount of games. Lángara took 82. He has the record. 7. Another opinion "this was what the media might be pointing". For being somebody asking for sources from other users, you surely are trying to impose your opinions. 8. You say "Only a user from catalunya would be desperate to not put ronaldo as fastest." This show more of your bias. Have you seeing the sources provided, or more specifically, the fourth source provided? It comes directly from the Real Madrid official page. Even RM official page says it took Lángara 82 games, less games than CR7. Who are you trying to deceive? 9. BTW, you are nobody to claim that your sources are more reliable than another user sources. But if you can have an opinion, so can I, and since this is a Spanish league record, I'll believe Spanish sources more than foreign source. You cite BBC, Sportillustrated and Foxsport, none Spanish. The other user cited Marca.com, RealMadrid.com, CiudadDeportiva.com, NoticiasdeMadrid.com and more. All Spanish, none from Catalunya. Now, I ask you. STOP, making the changes.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 21:40, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
First, I forgive your personal attack by calling my response idiotic. I will not lower myself. Second, this new supposed "record" is personal research since there are no source that state or even mention the seasons. It makes no sense. When Lángara played, the first four seasons did not amount to 100 games (18 games, 22 games, 22 games, 26 games). He did it in 5 seasons because mathematically, it was impossible for him to do it in less. CR7 did it in three. It is no accomplishment, since like Lándara, he did it in the minimum amounts of seasons possible. As you said, number of games in a season change all the time. There is no such record in what CR7 did-- Coquidragon ( talk) 00:44, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
You never insert your comment in between another user's comment. Please, don't do it again. I have removed your statement from the original position and have moved it below-- Coquidragon ( talk) 02:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Never have i attacked you personally, nor is the list of sources mine. I am not the anonymous user and I always sign my comments.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 02:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Some records need to be added, for example, I have just linked from Lionel Messi's article to here for the youngest La Liga appearance and scorer (records which now belong to Bojan Krkić I believe). Can anyone dig up the sources for this? I think this article/list could become very interesting and well sourced. Sillyfolkboy ( talk) 18:56, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
The pages "Football records in England" and "Football records in Italy" include the victories of this cup (forerunner of the Uefa Cup, now Europa League). So also this page has to include them (Barcelona 3 victories, Valencia 2, Real Zaragoza 1). Physiology, 16:25 18 June 2009 (UTC)
I have include the fairs cup in the article, its an FIFA official competition (Congress of London in 1955), you can to verify this in official site of Real Zaragoza and Valencia CF (honours) and in FCB web in the in the paragraph of news, If someone needs sources I will incluire the pertinent links.-- Sporting1905 ( talk) 01:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Copa Eva Duarte is the forerunner to the Spanish SuperCup, it was organized by Real Federacion Española de Fútbol, its an official title. The trophy was given by Eva Duarte Perón and and of there it name.-- Sporting1905 ( talk) 01:03, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
They are not official ( see UEFA.com and LFP.es). -- KSA connect 01:06, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Fairs Cup isn't UEFA competition but is an official competition:
uefa.com: [1]: "Los dos equipos sólo se han enfrentado en una ocasión en competición oficial, en la primera ronda de la Copa de Ferias ..."
LFP: [2]: FCB Palmarés (Honours); 3 Copas de la UEFA: 1958,1960,1966 (Fairs Cup)
Two primary sources! -- Sporting1905 ( talk) 22:49, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
All you need, when you speak about Spanish Football, is Barcelona, not Real Madrid, because "El Barça es mes que un club". So in the Barcelona palmares is "The Fairs Cup", that it was more than an "unofficial Uefa competition".
I love Barça jerseys more than Ibrahimovic and I have a message for the Real Madrid fans. We must break the ass to you!!! Physiology, 09:25, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
And then (for KSA) you must insert the UEFA Intertoto Cup victories in the table, because it was an official UEFA compeetition. When the Fairs Cup started the UEFA did not enter in the project for 16 years (from 1955 to 1971). The trophy was consigned to the winning teams by the FIFA President of that period (Sir Stanley Rous). Physiology 14:40, 09 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, the Intertoto Cup was a summer tournament, could you explain it to Dante Peruvian?
1. Los Campeonatos Nacionales de Liga de Primera, Segunda, Segunda B y Tercera División (Spanish Football Championships from First to Third Divition).
2. El Campeonato de España/Copa de S.M. el Rey (Spanish Cup).
3. La Supercopa (Spanish Super Cup).
4. La Copa RFEF (Spanish League Cup).
Also, the entity recognise official UEFA and FIFA competitions as equivalent to "statal championships".
Where is included in that document the Fairs Cup as "official" competition?
As Fairs Cups is not an UEFA club competicion, RFEF not recognise Fairs Cup as "official" cup, sorry...-- Dantetheperuvian ( talk) 00:47, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
In fact, we are speaking of a competition recognized by FIFA, not by UEFA. We explained it at least one hundred times. I don't think you don't understand: more probably, you are only a troll. -- 79.45.155.132 ( talk) 01:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
To IPs see
UEFA Cup: All-time finals - UEFA.com
Fairs Cup
‘‘The UEFA Cup replaced the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup in the 1971/72 season. The list of finals from that competition are listed below, but please note that the Fairs Cup is not considered a UEFA competition, and hence clubs' records in the Fairs Cup are not considered part of their European record.’’
NOTE: The Inter-Cities Fairs Cup also took place from 1955 to 1971 but not as an official UEFA competition.
Good luck. KSA connect 10:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
1. Los Campeonatos Nacionales de Liga de Primera, Segunda, Segunda B y Tercera División (Spanish Football Championships from First to Third Divition).
2. El Campeonato de España/Copa de S.M. el Rey (Spanish Cup).
3. La Supercopa (Spanish Super Cup).
4. La Copa RFEF (Spanish League Cup).
Also, the entity recognise official UEFA and FIFA competitions as equivalent to "statal championships". And please stop trying to make your idea is correct only, while ignoring the rest of the official source. KSA connect 07:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
‘‘The list of clubs or the opinions expressed in the articles do not necessarily represent the views of FIFA, unless expressly stated otherwise.’’
and you spanish uefa link doesn't work.
KSA
connect
17:26, 20 November 2009 (UTC)
Dante, la Copa de la RFEF no es la Copa de la Liga sino la Copa Federación, así que por favor no trates de confundir al personal, la Copa de Ferias es la misma competición que la Europa League, otra cosa es que cambiara de nombre al hacerse la UEFA cargo de ella, que la UEFA no la considere "UEFA competition" al no estar organizada por ella es perfectamente lógico, pero no quiere decir que no sea la misma competición, por ejemplo el Barca de Baloncesto gano la Copa de Europa en 2002 y actualmente la ULEB no la reconoce ya que durante unos años no la organizao ella sino los clubs, por tanto el Barca de basket no es campeon de Europa? no es la misma competicion que la que jugara la Final Four a final de temporada?-- Sporting1905 ( talk) 21:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
FC Barcelona has won the FIFA Club World Cup. Could the administrators modify the voice and add this victory in Barça honours? N.B. I hate Real Madrid and the madrid's fans. This club is the scum of football, such as Juventus in italy and i'm italian. For Dante the peruvian: UEFA is a criminal organization. Thank you. Physiology, 09:55, 20 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Physiology ( talk • contribs)
A message for the administrators: you have to update the table of records with the victory of FC Barcelona in the FIFA Club World Cup. Thank you. Physiology 11:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Physiology ( talk • contribs)
Please, how can protect this part of the page? Thank you. It's under attack. It's very important. Stop edit wars. Physiology, 12:10 20 April 2010 (UTC). I confirm the request. It's very important. Physiology, 11.50 25 May 2010 (UTC). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Physiology ( talk • contribs)
Why Copa Eva Duarte is not considered in "Most successful clubs overall (1902 – present)" section?-- Xtv - ( my talk) - ( que dius que què?) 09:21, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
It's not official by RFEF & UEFA. Why you add it now not before some year? because you just want your team on top in a hurry way? Also Why you don't add Latin Cup and some unofficial tournment like what you added Fairs cup and Eva Duarte. For more See
Also you can see above #From RFEF statutes or I will copy it here>
* According to Tit. VI, chapter. II, section 1, art. 29 bis, paragraph 1, pag.19 of RFEF statutes, RFEF, the governing body of football in Spain ONLY recognise as "official football tournaments" at national level:
1. Los Campeonatos Nacionales de Liga de Primera, Segunda, Segunda B y Tercera División (Spanish Football Championships from First to Third Divition).
2. El Campeonato de España/Copa de S.M. el Rey (Spanish Cup).
3. La Supercopa (Spanish Super Cup).
4. La Copa RFEF (Spanish League Cup).
Additional comments |
---|
Also, the entity recognise official UEFA and FIFA competitions as equivalent to "statal championships".
Where is included in that document the Fairs Cup as "official" competition? As Fairs Cups is not an UEFA club competicion, RFEF not recognise Fairs Cup as "official" cup, sorry...-- Dantetheperuvian ( talk) 00:47, 1 November 2009 (UTC) In fact, we are speaking of a competition recognized by FIFA, not by UEFA. We explained it at least one hundred times. I don't think you don't understand: more probably, you are only a troll. -- 79.45.155.132 ( talk) 01:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)
To IPs see
UEFA Cup: All-time finals - UEFA.com Good luck. KSA connect 10:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
1. Los Campeonatos Nacionales de Liga de Primera, Segunda, Segunda B y Tercera División (Spanish Football Championships from First to Third Divition). Also, the entity recognise official UEFA and FIFA competitions as equivalent to "statal championships". And please stop trying to make your idea is correct only, while ignoring the rest of the official source. KSA connect 07:51, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
‘‘The list of clubs or the opinions expressed in the articles do not necessarily represent the views of FIFA, unless expressly stated otherwise.’’
Dante, la Copa de la RFEF no es la Copa de la Liga sino la Copa Federación, así que por favor no trates de confundir al personal, la Copa de Ferias es la misma competición que la Europa League, otra cosa es que cambiara de nombre al hacerse la UEFA cargo de ella, que la UEFA no la considere "UEFA competition" al no estar organizada por ella es perfectamente lógico, pero no quiere decir que no sea la misma competición, por ejemplo el Barca de Baloncesto gano la Copa de Europa en 2002 y actualmente la ULEB no la reconoce ya que durante unos años no la organizao ella sino los clubs, por tanto el Barca de basket no es campeon de Europa? no es la misma competicion que la que jugara la Final Four a final de temporada?-- Sporting1905 ( talk) 21:39, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
|
See this RFEF - we are not limited to what RFEF consider official. This is a list of all the competitions at that time considered prestigious and open for all. Sandman888 ( talk) Latest PR 07:50, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
But this does not mean it the same or even under the supervision of the Spanish Federation, and if your conclusion on this are right, that would mean adding more tournaments that are similar to current one like Latin Cup. Also this list include only the official not prestigious like what you get it from that article. Q for you: Are These trophies you added in official? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.48.125.80 ( talk) 12:46, 26 August 2010 (UTC) What do you mean by official? RFEF is not the only football organisation in the world, and the Copa Eva Duarte was a Spanish first-team competition just like the rest of them. Sandman888 ( talk) 08:56, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Only officia title can added that organized by official bodies : Spanish (RFEF), European (UEFA) and Worldwidw (FIFA).
RSSSF is only organization dedicated to collecting statistics, using contributors from around the world, so of info is not perfect sourced or uncompleted. So we have official organization we don't need secondary source that include some ideas.-- 188.49.1.140 ( talk) 13:26, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
I think both should be in, but the Duarte is another issue IMO. But the Fairs Cup is 100% legit, the fact it's being argued is ridiculous, the FIGC, the Italian Footballing Body agree it should be added to domestic teams honours (go to football records of italy and go to the link next to Roma in the table) and also go to the OFFICIAL La Liga website, LFP, both in Valencia and Barcelona's records the Fairs Cup is added. Who cares that UEFA don't recognise it as part of THEIR record...but it's still a competition to is added to European records and domestic records, just not UEFA records, because well shock, horror...UEFA never hosted it, so they have a reason to not add it to their records. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.155.106.196 ( talk) 19:18, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
Also yo have write Fewest defeats in total, Real Sociedad, 38 matches (78/79 -6, 79/80, 32).-- 88.19.64.233 ( talk) 16:59, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
For clarification, and to homogenize the criteria surrounding the number of domestic, international and overall titles of Spanish clubs I would like to point out the following:
1) The Copa Eva Duarte WAS a official competition, as it was organized by the Royal Spanish Football Federation, a member of UEFA (see the Cup's page for references), preceding the current Spanish Super Cup (see the Cup's page for references)
2) The Copa de la Liga WAS also a official competition, as it was also organized, even if briefly, by the Royal Spanish Football Federation, again, a member of UEFA, as an alternative to the more established Copa del Rey (see the Cup's page for references)
3) The Inter-Cities Fairs Cup WAS NOT a official competition, even if it preceded the UEFA Cup and Europa League tournaments, as it was not organized by UEFA, but by private individuals and organizations to promote trade fairs in Europe (see the Cup's page for references)
It is clear that the above-mentioned are the correct, objective criteria for official tournaments, and they are the ones currently in use in the overall trophies table. It was updated by someone else (unknown to me), but given that this is usually a misunderstood issue I thought it important to clarify and substantiate the used criteria.
MarkamBey ( talk) 10:40, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi Sandman,
I see that you have updated the overall trophies table including the Inter-Cities Fair Cup but not the Eva Duarte Cup, I guess it is a misunderstanding? I will now revert the table to the previous version which abided to the objective criteria explained above (UEFA or RFEF recognition), i.e. which included Eva Duarte Cups but not Inter-Cities Fair Cups.
MarkamBey ( talk) 11:54, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
I have updated the overall titles table per the above criteria, including footnotes in each competition explaning which titles within which dates are included, and why it is so, i.e. because only official titles recognized by RFEF, UEFA or FIFA are included. Please revise and correct if necessary, but I think that all figures are correct. In any clase, please do not change criteria without discussin her first, as the currently used ones are the objective, verifiable ones.
MarkamBey ( talk) 13:13, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
The number of Supercopas for F.C. Barcelona was increased to 14 from my previous edit of 13. Please realize that the correct number, using current criteria of "official" competitions as organized/recognized , is 13 = 10 Supercopas proper + 3 Copa Eva Duarte, as the fourth was won by F.C. Barcelona when it was still not an official tournament organized by the RFEF. These criteria are currently under discussion here and on club articles' discussion pages, but please do not further edit until criteria are changed, to avoid mistakes (double counting, etc.).
MarkamBey ( talk) 02:01, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
MarkamBey ( talk) 16:25, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
Dear all,
As you might have observed if you have read the full discussion page of this article and the discussion pages of some clubs such as F.C. Barcelona, the classification of competitions into official and unofficial is far from trivial and raises some tricky questions. To encourage debate and homogenize criteria I list those questions below, together with the answer which I deem more fit and my justification for it, please contribute with your opinions and/or other questions that you deem important.
1) Should we list only official titles, or all of them?
My take is that we should only list official titles, not all of them, to avoid the "noise" of friendly matches, friendly trophies, etc.
2) What is an official title?
This is very tricky, but if we are trying to abide by objective criteria when classifying competitions into official and unofficial, in my view the only clear-cut way to classify competitions is whether they are officialy recognized by RFEF if they are domestic, by UEFA if they are European, and by FIFA if they are International. This leaves some gray areas, such as the Latin Cup, but solves most of the problem. As an example, the Latin Cup would be unofficial under this definition (it is not a domestic competition, even if it was organized, partly, by the RFEF), and the same goes for Inter-Cities Fairs Cup (it is a european competition, but it was not organized nor is recognized by UEFA). On the contrary, the Copa Eva Duarte from 1947 to 1953 and the Copa de la Liga are official competitions under this definition, since they were domestic competitions organized by the RFEF (note that the first editions of the Copa Eva Duarte under other names, prior to 1947, are not official under this definition, since they were not organized nor are recognized by the RFEF).
Again, that is my take, but I stand to be corrected if you find better criteria/arguments. In any case, please contribute.
MarkamBey ( talk) 02:33, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
PS Unknown editors of this article https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_confederation_and_inter-confederation_club_competition_winners also seem to adopt the above view (Inter-Cities Fairs Cup is considered as unofficial, while Latin Cup is not even mentioned).
MarkamBey ( talk) 02:53, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I have included a note about this and reorganized the overall titles table accordingly. MarkamBey ( talk) 16:34, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
After reviewing all the feedback from current and previous discussions, I still believe that according to objective, verifiable sources the Inter-Cities Fairs Cups should not be included in the overall titles table. However, as many have pointed out, it is a very close call, and for the sake of objectivity and completeness, I only consider it fair to include a brief reference of the non-inclusion criteria in the article itself, including sources, so that the reader has all the information if she or he reads the article with attention. This is the reference that I have included both after the introduction mentioning that only "official" titles are included, and in the UEFA Europa League header itself:
"In particular, note that the UEFA Cup replaced the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup, however, as the competition was not organised by UEFA, it is not counted as an official trophy for official record purposes ( "UEFA Cup: All-time finals". UEFA.com. Retrieved 13 July 2009.), even if it is generally considered the official predecessor of the UEFA Cup (see, for example, http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/history/index.html) and a major title (see, for example, F.C. Barcelona's profile at FIFA.com: http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/clubs/club=44217/) - F.C. Barcelona won the competition a record three times (1958, 1960, 1966), Valencia C.F. won it twice (1962,1963), and Real Zaragoza won it in one occasion (1964)."
I think that the above is a fair, substantiated and objective statement that only completes the information already provided in the article, and that might help an uninformed reader understand the issues surrounding the Fairs Cup status. MarkamBey ( talk) 17:29, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
MarkamBey ( talk) 17:42, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
I have included one more reference in the introduction to the overall titles table to clarify why competitions such as the Latin Cup are not included: they were organized by RFEF together with other national-level federations, however it was a European competition, and as such per the current criteria it would be only considered as "official" and included in the overall titles table if it had been organized by UEFA. Again, I think that current criteria are objective and easily verifiable, in compliance with Wikipedia regulations, but I am open to discussion and stand to be corrected if necessary, just please be coherent and justify your points with verifiable, valid references. MarkamBey ( talk) 18:16, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't want to open a can of worms, so I would like to propose this here before making any changes, but someone pointed to me that the Intercontinental Cup was a worldwide competition not organized by FIFA (it was organized by UEFA and CONMEBOL), and that it would therefore not qualify for inclussion in the table per the current criteria.
In particular, if we do include the Intercontinental Cup, it does look difficult to reject the inclusion of the Latin Cup, since it was a European competition organized by national federations, a case analogous to the Latin Cup.
Also, it is slight more tangent, but this also complicates the case for not including the Fairs Cup, since although it is a European competition it seems to be recognized by FIFA (although it was not organized by any national federation, UEFA or FIFA, which makes the decision trickier).
So,... should we eliminate the Intercontinental Cup and just count FIFA Club World Cup as worldwide competitions, or on the contrary include the Latin Cup as well in the table? If the latter, should we also include Fairs Cup?
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated, as I hadn't realized this issue with the Intercontinental Cup which makes the question of which competitions to include much more harder than I thought. MarkamBey ( talk) 00:51, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
This guy repedely delete sourced material from this page, removing well established records because they belong to FC Barcelona. I think he/she is a Real madrid fan obsessed with all reords that belong to FC Barcelona. The records are sourced and recognized by the organizing body of the league. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.255.81 ( talk) 22:51, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
And about citations, do you realize how many citations would have to be added, I can add exact sources to every record on this page but then you would end up with an enormous amount of citations, easily several hundreds of them, for FC Barcelonas 39 win streak alone there would be 39 citations, do you realize how stupid that is?.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.255.81 ( talk) 00:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC)
While it can be agreeable to include the Copa Eva Duarte, Inter Cities fairs cup was a tournmanent where many teams from the Liga including Athletic Bilbao , Real Madrid and almost all of the Spanish football clubs did not participate. You cannot compare teams when some teams have played in a tournament and some have not. So I do not think it is right to include Inter cities fairs cup. Otherwise other teams will claim any other tournaments they have played where others have not! This will just be a mess. Plus, Inter cities is not recognized by FIFA. Seaboy123 ( talk) 16:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
First of all you have already been banned once on Wikipedia but have know reappeared with a new nickname.(according to your own page, so I would stop threatening other members on Wikipedia if I was you!)
Your logic is deluded. It cannot be FC Barcelona's problem nor fault that RM was not able to compete. The fact still remains that the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup is acknowledged by UEFA as being the predecessor of the UEFA CUP. Moreover FIFA officially recognizee the trophy.
Moreover both the SPANISH and Catalan Wikipedia page both acknowledge that FC Barcelona is the most successful club in terms of domestic, international and overall trophies in Spain.
FC Barcelona leads 61-59 domestic wise and 17-15 international wise and 78-74 in terms of overall trophies.
And only trophies recognized by either RFEF, UEFA or FIFA are included in that list.-- Crashwheelx ( talk) 19:57, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
Also, I am repeating again : "You cannot compare teams when some teams have played in a tournament and some have not. So I do not think it is right to include Inter cities fairs cup. Otherwise other teams will claim any other tournaments they have played where others have not! This will just be a mess.". Seaboy123 ( talk) 20:42, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
FIFA does recognize the Fairs Cup. You are lying right now. http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/clubs/club=44217/index.html
The Fairs Cup is included officially by FIFA as a major trophy as seen by my link so you are wrong.
Moreover the Fairs Cup is ACKNOWLEDGED by UEFA to be the predecessor of the UEFA CUP.
What regard the Copa Eva Duarte then it was founded and organized by RFEF and was the predecessor of the current Spanish Super Cup.
For proof see this discussion page and the discussion page on the FC Barcelona page. Moreover it is included in both the Spanish and Catalan Wikipedia pages (with Spanish references and sources to back it up).
I can post them to you if you like. And I am half Spanish so I am fluent in Spanish. So I would advice you to stop deleting correct information.-- Crashwheelx ( talk) 14:01, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
This article was moved to a new name with no discussion. I have undone the move in order to keep the consistency with other like articles.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 20:11, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
That is twice you make the change User:Amarru. Please, stop. This article is one in a series. (England, Germany, France, Italy, etc...)-- Coquidragon ( talk) 21:30, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Should the "Most successful clubs overall" include the Fairs Cup? I see the edit war here, the Football records in Italy page doesn't include it, but the Football records in England page does. NOTE: It is clear that the Eva Duarte Cup should be included as it was an official competition sponsored by the RFEF.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 21:14, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and changed the title to short names, using a key, in order to limit the width of the table. I've also separated Eva Duarte and Intercontinental from the SuperCup and the FIFA World Cup respectively in order to provide a more accurate view of the standings. The Fairs Cup has been taken out, not so much from what has been discussed here (although it had something to do) but so that the table is consistent with other European record tables in English Wikipedia.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 18:36, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm thinking about adding reference notes to the individual records on this page, the problem as I see it is that the reference section would be awfully long, for some records there would be multiple notes and for the entire page they would most likely add up to well over a hundred. I'll start with adding notes to the win streak records. Unfortunately since these records are mostly recently established, there are no written referernces to them in any books about Spanish football. I'll go on and use the LFP site as a start. There are many books about the history of fooball in Spain, but they usually contain records that are to old or even wrong (I've come across many errors in the books I've read, for example Lagara scoring his 3 consecutive hattricks in the season 1935-1936 when in reality it was 1934-1935, that is just one error but I've have come across tons of them). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.60.11.82 ( talk) 15:18, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
HasperHunter has been repetedly removing sourced material from this page. I say he should be banned for 24H by admins. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.57.248.61 ( talk) 19:06, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
I'll start by saying that you have violated Wikipedia's three revert rule and if you continue doing so, you'll be blocked from wikipedia. Second, I have read all sources provided by the anonymous IP, and you are lying when you say that "Also, just so you know, 2 or 3 of the sources you provided are actually claiming ronaldo is the fastest themselves." I recommend you read the articles again. Finally, even if I ignored the sources provided by the other editor and consider only yours, with acknowledgement of WP:Verifiability, not truth (which would imply that we ought to attribute the record to CR7 as provided by your sources), WP:CALC permits us to perform the count ourselves based on the sourced goal record for Isidro Lángara
Club performance | League | |||
---|---|---|---|---|
Season | Club | League | Apps | Goals |
Spain | League | |||
1933/34 | Real Oviedo | La Liga | 18 | 26 |
1934/35 | 22 | 27 | ||
1935/36 | 21 | 28 | ||
1946/47 | 20 | 18 | ||
1947/48 | 9 | 5 | ||
Total | 90 | 104 |
If you do the Math, 104 goals in 90 games imply that he surpassed the 100 goals in 92 games for CR7. Please, stop changing the article.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 05:38, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Let's go in order: 1. I'm not citing Wikipedia, I just borrowed the goals table from the other article. That's Isidro Lángara's La Liga official goal count, even if you don't like it. 2. By saying that Catalunya sources are not reliable, you are showing your own bias, which doesn't help your argument. 3. You are still lying. None of the original sources provided by the other user support your position. You either don't know Spanish, or are reading with a blind's eye. 4. You say that "This data is flawed itself." This is your opinion, and it is not valid nor true. 5. The jump in years means nothing. It took Lángara 82 games, regardless of the years in between, to reach 100 goals. He was faster that CR7. 6. It took CR7 less seasons than Lágara? Agreed, but that's not what we are talking about, nor any sources back this claim, not even yours. The record and the sources talk about amount of games. Lángara took 82. He has the record. 7. Another opinion "this was what the media might be pointing". For being somebody asking for sources from other users, you surely are trying to impose your opinions. 8. You say "Only a user from catalunya would be desperate to not put ronaldo as fastest." This show more of your bias. Have you seeing the sources provided, or more specifically, the fourth source provided? It comes directly from the Real Madrid official page. Even RM official page says it took Lángara 82 games, less games than CR7. Who are you trying to deceive? 9. BTW, you are nobody to claim that your sources are more reliable than another user sources. But if you can have an opinion, so can I, and since this is a Spanish league record, I'll believe Spanish sources more than foreign source. You cite BBC, Sportillustrated and Foxsport, none Spanish. The other user cited Marca.com, RealMadrid.com, CiudadDeportiva.com, NoticiasdeMadrid.com and more. All Spanish, none from Catalunya. Now, I ask you. STOP, making the changes.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 21:40, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
First, I forgive your personal attack by calling my response idiotic. I will not lower myself. Second, this new supposed "record" is personal research since there are no source that state or even mention the seasons. It makes no sense. When Lángara played, the first four seasons did not amount to 100 games (18 games, 22 games, 22 games, 26 games). He did it in 5 seasons because mathematically, it was impossible for him to do it in less. CR7 did it in three. It is no accomplishment, since like Lándara, he did it in the minimum amounts of seasons possible. As you said, number of games in a season change all the time. There is no such record in what CR7 did-- Coquidragon ( talk) 00:44, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
You never insert your comment in between another user's comment. Please, don't do it again. I have removed your statement from the original position and have moved it below-- Coquidragon ( talk) 02:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Never have i attacked you personally, nor is the list of sources mine. I am not the anonymous user and I always sign my comments.-- Coquidragon ( talk) 02:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)