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This page needs to be re-organized. It looks like there's a good core article, and then a bunch of added on sections that don't match wiki tone or style, but have additional useful info. -- Mcpusc 05:33, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
I reorganized the page a bit just now, because the second heading was completely blank. It looked to me that it just needed to have its sub-sections demoted, (which is what I did), but if it was actually blank due to vandalism, could someone fix it? I couldn't see any tons'o'deletion vandalism in recent edits... Stillnotelf 17:48, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
Some U shaped or circular fluorescent tubes have a metal foil strip glued to the outside of the curve of the tube. Anyone know what the purpose of this is? It could be included in this section if there is an answer. RFabian ( talk) 19:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Could this be the ground metal mentioned at the paragraph in the wikipedia article titled: "Rapid start
Newer rapid start ballast designs provide filament power windings within the ballast; these rapidly and continuously warm the filaments/cathodes using low-voltage AC. No inductive voltage spike is produced for starting, so the lamps must be mounted near a grounded (earthed) reflector to allow the glow discharge to propagate through the tube and initiate the arc discharge. In some lamps a "starting aid" strip of grounded metal is attached to the outside of the lamp glass."
Amonalisa32304 ( talk) 01:06, 22 October 2008 (UTC)amonalisa32304
Should have more about the efficiency, like Compact fluorescent light bulb has.
Also mention the flicker annoying some people, and how it is reduced in some by upping the frequency? - Omegatron 02:35, May 28, 2005 (UTC)
Are the 2 sentences I added including "... Dr. J. Veitch ..." sufficient detail on flicker? I agree that efficiency info would be good, but I'd prefer a big table in Lighting that listed efficiency for every kind all in one place. -- DavidCary 23:56, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Efficiency definitely needs some substance, with some numbers....
7/24/06 There must be some data somewhere about how much energy it takes to manufacture a fluorescent bulb vs. an incandescent. Also on the environmental impact of the materials used in each. My hunch is fluorescent bulbs take a lot more energy to make and are more environmentally hazardous. The longer life of the fluorescent bulb is a mitigating factor, but by how much?
This is important because the people that are trying to shame us into switching to fluorescent are only telling us we'll use less electricity to run them, and nothing about how they're made.
Please add a table of the output lumens and lumens per watt for the most common lamps and tubes. Please give data for both the tubes alone and for typical ballast-tube combinations. Please mention addition light losses in the fixture, and give typical percentages. - 69.87.201.16 11:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
It would be nice to see more details about the variation in efficiency of normal fluorescents -- a factor of two (from 7% to 15%) is quite a significant range! Exactly why are CFLs only half as efficient as the best non-compacts? What is the possibility of therefore being able to increase the efficiency of CFLs to be comparable? And if the most efficiency fluorescents are 15%, it would be great to see a detailed analysis of the other 85% -- exactly where does it go? The article mentions loss in the phosphor re-emission, which causes heating there -- what is the percentage there? What is the range of loses in various types of ballast? Where else specifically do losses occur?- 69.87.193.242 12:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I love all this detail. Please don't delete any correct information. Likely the cheap transformer type ballasts decrease efficiency a bit, and shorten tube life a bit compared to the best electronic ballasts. The tubes with a blue tint are more efficient, but most people find the light unpleasent, and our eyes respond less to blue light. The flicker affects a few people badly, but most people are affected only by the high brightness, if at all. Low speed flicker = 20 hertz or less is usually because the tube is near the end of it's life. Nearly everyone finds this slower flicker annoying. A bad tube or CFL should not affect other lights, but we should never say never. I cracked the end seal (got too hot) both times I ran a 40 watt florescent at 80 watts plus, but 50 or 60 watts is likely not dangerous, but will reduce tube life expectancy. Many of the 40 watt tubes (near the end of their life only draw about 30 watts from the mains = power company. This is especially true if the input voltage is 105 volts instead of 120 volts. I was plesently surprised when the power company supplied 62 volts rms for about an hour, but more than half of the CFLs were near full brightness. Apparently the low voltage destroyed both ballasts in a set of four 4 foot tube ficture. Is there any good reason cheap tubes of any kind won't light in an induction type fixture for tubes without terminals? I would think some worn out tubes would light that won't in any other kind of fixture. Two out of 20 CFLs = compact fluorescent produced considerable radio noise between 540 and 15,000 kilohertz. Most all fluorescents produce tiny amouts of radio noise = More than incandesant and LEDs. CFLs are slightly less efficient because perhaps 20% of the lighted surface is facing other lighted surface. Much of this mostly hidden light becomes heat. I don't think half is typical. Since the CFLs are newer technology, they are very nearly as efficient and long lived as the cheap 4 foot tubes. Ccpoodle 19:43, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
One substance that changes its apparent color dramatically under many fluirescent lamps is tomato juice. Being bright red normally, it turns then to an unpleasant brick-brown. — Monedula 10:30, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
Tabby 01:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Some other liquids ( beer being one example) emit a sickly and almost radioactive green colour when exposed to some frequencies of light from fluorescent lamps, particularly those from black lights.
Tabby 01:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
"Fluorescent fun" ... "Alternatively, if you happen to have a Tesla coil handy, you can ..." Somehow this whole chapter doesn't strike me as very encyclopaedic. The same content could be included in the article, but under a better title than "Fluorescent fun" and written in a more matter-of-fact manner. -- 130.233.26.180 06:40, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Is it even healthy to do these things? Accidents happen you know. Especially if you're standing under a high-voltage line... or messing with a Tesla coil. ::: ---
Sounds interesting. but take hold where? Touch to surface where?
Just how much mercury vapour do these things contain? I am wondering since one exploded over me when I was young. Crusadeonilliteracy 13:11, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Its unfortunate that data on mercury from coal was removed, incl the graph. Rather it needs developing imho, eg by taking into account the propertion of coal generated power. Tabby 10:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I note the original author lives in Colorado, making him an American. I find "whilst" to be particularly ugly and would support a wholesale change to "while". I believe it's Wikipedia practice to follow the spelling and usage of the original author? -- Wtshymanski 03:09, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Fluorescent lamp control gear designs vary in different countries, due to very different mains voltages requiring different designs, different operating temperature ranges required, different fluorescent tube ranges available, and different customs. Terminology also varies or has different meanings; for example preheat in the US refers to a specific circuit design using an automatic starting switch, whereas in Europe it is a collective term referring to all control gear circuits which attempt to heat the tube filaments before striking the main arc (including but not limited to US preheat circuits).
The section on 'starting' a fluorescent lamp is rather US-centric both in terminology and in the control gear techniques used being more common on 120V mains than 220-240V mains supplies. I started trying to fix it to be more general, but it really needs a restructure or it would become a confusing mess. --Andrew Gabriel-- 81.187.162.107 21:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Do you have any information that can help clarify the vague Overdriven fluorescent light article? -- Dogears ( talk) 18:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know what the silver strip is for on some fluorescent lamps? I specifically saw it on a U shaped tube from GE. My initial guess was that it is a grounding strip to dissipate any charge on the bulb. Here is a link to a picture of the bulb in question Ratsbew ( talk) 22:38, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Industrial and commercial facilities typically use internal fluorescent lighting, on a very large scale. There are many special issues associated with practical aspects of fluorescent tube re-lamping. Typically the fixtures are difficult to access, requiring ladders, disrupting other work etc. So relamping is done often in a very structured way. When a fluorescent bulb burns out, the ballast usually continues to draw power, unlike a burned out incandescent. The fixture may remain in that condition for some weeks or months, wasting power. When fluorescent tubes are all replaced at once, because it is labor efficient, they are prematurely discarded, not giving their maximum potential useful life. - 69.87.201.16 11:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I wish this article explained how to tell if a flicker is from a bad bulb or a bad starter (or bad ballast). Also, if a lamp with four bulbs is flickering, do you have to replace all four? If not, how do you tell which need to be replaced? r3 21:44, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone tried building a fluorescent lamp without electrodes? By removing the electrodes and instead making a torus / donut shape, the mercury would form a continuous loop through the glass.
If a portion of this continuous tube were wrapped with a high-density wire coil, and the coil is powered high-voltage / high frequency current, this should be enough to start a current flow in the mercury and light the lamp. (This lamp is essentially an electrical transformer but using the conductive vapor for the secondary circuit.)
Since this would not have thermionic electrodes to sputter out, the lamp life should be extremely long and nearly unlimited (taking into account phosphor aging). Does anything like this exist?
DMahalko ( talk) 02:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Forgive me if this is in the article and I didn't spot it. What is the mechanism behind the increased apparent luminosity of fluorescent lamps in lower temperature environments (unheated out buildings, warehouse roof spaces ets)? It's quite obvious on a cold night, for instance. I assume that the lamps will be operating at nearly the same internal temperature, and thus need to generate more heat - resulting in them running brighter. Does this also affect the life of the lamp? 22:37, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
...or in a separate articel, would be a comment about " Circline" type lights, along with the other versions of tube bending. 68.39.174.238 ( talk) 17:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Since it generates the UV wave. Could it be installed in public transport systems, but safe to public health??? I couldn't find such research studies in academic journals-- 203.190.192.130 ( talk) 04:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC), and a public toilet where I have seen it....???-- 203.190.192.130 ( talk) 04:17, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
If the tech proves safe enough to use, then it can be installed alternatively in the motel/hotel rooms with multiple colour choices of UV enabled and with various motion scheme employed such as discos or movie styles, whichever suit guest's preference. This will clean up lots of dirt within the accommodation. I bet the room vacancy rate will be reduced too. So does it to health care sectors, which means if the tech is applied to hospital ward, then the chance of nosocomial infection could be greatly reduced. -- 202.14.152.15 ( talk) 01:12, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
There is hardly any coverage of dimming fluorescan's and dosn't mention current technology Back ache 10:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the article should explain how to replace bulbs, how to tell whether the bulb or the charging capacitor needs replacing, and best practice for disposal of bulbs safely. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tomhannen ( talk • contribs) .
I guess referring to the starter, which often goes by odd names. A large local outlet here calls them 'starter motors'!
A how to section sounds like a very useful idea to me. Tabby 10:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Reference 2 leads to a "page not found" type of site. GermanSoccer3 02:44, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
An excellent article. A couple of questions and observations if I may.
1. I long ago switched to compact fluorescent lighting throughout the house. Occasionally, I encounter a bulb that starts off dim and takes several minutes to "warm up" to full output. It seems to be a bulb design issue as all five of the CF bulbs in the family room -- purchased at the same time -- do that. I didn't see that directly addressed in the article.
2. At least once, I have encountered a dead fluourescent bulb that somehow prevented any other CF bulb on the same household circuit from starting until it was removed from its socket. Again, I didn't see that addressed.
3. I didn't expect CF bulbs to work all that well in outside motion detector applications, but they do fine. The small sample I've encountered -- three bulbs -- all start reliably down to -20F (-26C) and seem to have normal lifetimes.
4. Purely anecdotal, but my wife has a gooseneck lamp with a high CRI CF bulb in it as part of her portable sewing gear. She loves it, she and her friends feel that it yields better color fidelity than incandescent bulbs.
5. The other night, I flipped off the kitchen light, turned to pick something up, and turned back just in time to see the unpowered bulb reilluminate for several seconds. Disconcerting. Presumably due to something statically charged in the bulb discharging through the gas?
My apologies if these are already addressed and I missed them in my read through of this lengthy article. Again, it's a very good article.
71.169.145.236 12:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)Donald Kenney
I was looking up efficiency information and noticed some odd claims in the introduction that fluorescent lamps were created by the government to eat brains. Another line stated that compact fluorescents do this more so than normal (? If normal could be applied here). I trimmed the lines.
"which and affects other equipment which is designed on the assumption that the input alternating current power supply is a clean sinusoidal waveform."
Deleted because
Tabby 10:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Tabby 00:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
"The frequency is most noticeable on CRT computer monitors set with a refresh rate similar to the frequency of the bulbs, which will appear to flicker due to the beat effect. To resolve this flicker one may change their monitor's refresh rate."
Deleted because
Tabby 10:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I thought production of these had long ceased Tabby 10:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC
Thanks Atlant. Tabby 00:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Any references to Anode and Cathode are likely to confuse, without great care. AC is used in almost all cases currently; each end takes a turn being Anode or Cathode, many times a second.- 69.87.193.242 11:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
"The mix is slowly sputtered off by bombardment with electrons and mercury ions during operation, but a larger amount is sputtered off each time the tube is started with cold cathodes. (The method of starting the lamp and hence the control gear type has a significant impact on this.) Lamps operated for typically less than 3 hours each switch-on will normally run out of the emission mix before other parts of the lamp fail."
So, some types would be very vulnerable to wearout if frequently turned on and off. And presumably some types are not so vulnerable. Please tell us more about exactly which types are least subject to such wearout, and what gives them this capacity. It seems a shame that this important matter is so confusing/confused -- it leaves us having to assume that all fluorescents have this disadvantage, even though only some do.- 69.87.193.242 11:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
"Fluorescent lamp ballasts have a power factor of less than unity. For large installations, this makes the provision of electrical power more expensive as special measures need to be taken to bring the power factor closer to unity."
I dont see anything special about pfc capacitors, theyre standard kit. Theyre included in most fl fittings, but for large areas eg industry its cheaper to use LPF fittings plus external capacitance.
More expensive than what? Certainly far cheaper than filament lamps. Tabby 07:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
The original paragraph is very simplistic, but covering power factor in conjunction with fluorescents is a non-trivial task. Capacitors can bring power factor back to nearer unity, but cannot completely correct it as the current is not simply phase shifted, and a capacitor can only correct the phase shifted contribution to the low power factor. There's also the issue of 3rd harmonic components of the current distortion, which all add in the neutral of 3-phase supplies (and 6th, 9th, etc harmonics, but they aren't so significant). There are also different control gear circuits which have different power factors. One particularly good control gear circuit which was used in the UK in more expensive luminaries was called SRS -- semi resonant start. This had a power factor of very near 1 without the need for additional correction, and was also very good at starting tubes at low temperatures.
Andrew Gabriel
81.187.162.109
23:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
With the recent move towards banning incandescents in some countries, could we have some information regarding the differences in heat output compared with fluorescent? Some businesses use incandescents as a heat source, so if a fluorescent doesn't create the same amount of heat that could potentialy be a draw-back that deserves mention. -WarHawk
The power of the lamp equals the heat output, so there isnt really much to tell. Tabby 22:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Simply put: Grab a 100W inc. bulb that's been on for 18 hours with your bare hand. Then grab a fluorescent bulb that's been on the same length of time. One will likely burn your hand, the other will not. JoeIdoni 11:20, 7 Jan 2008
The spectrum graphs of various fluorescent types would be easier to interpret if there was also included graphs of other light types. For example, bright sunlight, cloudy day sunlight, standard incandescent, household halogen - things people would naturally compare the fluorescent light to. 24.17.180.126 17:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
At any one instant in a domestic fluorescent lamp, what percentage of the mercury atoms are ionised, and what percentage of the inert gas fill is ionised? From the article Plasma (physics), the fact that the fill is gaseous and at least some fo the atoms are ionised does mean that it could possibly be described as a plasma - but reading more deeply, I'm not sure if fluorescent lamps meet the more rigourous definition given later on in the Plasma article. I suppose the follow on from my first question is if the plasma parameter is much, much greater than 1 (That is, is Λ>>1?) for typical fluorescent lamps? WLD 15:52, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
What is the meaning of specification "6500 W" written on the tube light?
6500K means the colour temperature is 6500K, which is a horribly cold light. Tabby 10:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
"The cool white fluorescent bulb is legally BANNED in German hospitals and medical facilities." I read this at the Internet. You can find some sources by looking up on google.
I don't speak English very well (I'm Brazilian), but I'm writing in this site because I strongly believe that fluorescent bulbs are very bad for human health, and I believe people in here are interested in researching and finding information about the health hazards fluorescent bulbs may cause in humans. I can't just write this in the article, because I have no scientific source to cite.
The phrase above, about German hospitals, was the closest I could get in my research for some evidence that some government thinks fluorescent bulbs are not good to people. I hope someone in here studies it further, and some reliable fact about health concerns may be put into the article. Wikipedia can be the place to inform people about this important issue.
I believe that many other people around the world dislike fluorescent bulbs as I do. In fact, I think many have come to this article, as I have, looking for some information about all the symptoms fluorescent light may cause. But there is nothing about it on the article! If you look up on the Internet, you will find many websites and blogs with people complaining about fluorescent lights. I believe this information needs to be on this article.
Here are some links I found on a quick Google search on this very important subject:
I believe it would be good, if someone is interested, to research more about this and then write a Wikipedia article about Health Hazards fluorescent lamps cause or to write down a section in this article.
A.Z. 19:22, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi. My dermatologist has just told me that my dermatitis is being aggravated by fluorescent lights at my workplace. I can't find any references to back this up but apparently it is relatively well accepted idea. He said it was the radiation produced rather than the light itself, not sure if he was referring to the UV radiation or to electromagnetic radiation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.68.171.128 ( talk • contribs) .
Wikipedia article on
Over-illumination states the following:
"Incorrect spectra (such as fluorescent globes) provide too intense illumination in certain frequency bands compared to other bands. The desired spectrum is that of natural light, which the body is expecting and which is used to set the circadian rhythms of all higher forms of animal life."
"Too great an emphasis upon fluorescent (as opposed to natural) light contribute to incidence of headache.[8]"
"Some studies have shown that the flicker and over-illumination combined in some fluorescent systems yield particularly high fatigue incidence. Research on circadian rhythm in humans indicates that one reason for fatigue stems from the incorrect color spectrum of fluorescent light. For example, the brain of a worker under intense fluorescent light for eight hours perceives itself to have been in total darkness and hence is preparing to sleep under its circadian setting[9]"
"It is clear that brighter, less spectrally correct light induces clinically measurable stress,[10] and it is suggested that for children this over-illumination may interfere with the learning process. For example, in dysgraphia, a defect of learning to write, children experiencing any form of stress are subject to greater incidence of this learning disability. Task performance can also be compromised for people conducting work under artificial (e.g. fluorescent as opposed to natural light)[7]"
"Fluorescent lighting has also been linked to aggravating other psychological disorders such as agoraphobia.[12]"
"Adverse outcomes seem to arise most commonly among workers subject to intense fluorescent light, which is poorly matched to the spectrum of sunlight. According to one set of researchers, the body translates this condition as "total darkness" and resets the circadian clock incorrectly[citation needed]. Not only does this result in fatigue, but also immuno-suppressive behaviour that has been shown to be linked to increased cancers. The research indicates that increasing the ratio of natural light to artificial solves much of the problem, provided the total illumination level is not driven excessively high. Many of these health impacts may be primarily due to the spectrum of the light rather than the overall level of illumination, but more research is required to establish this."
I'd like to know what Deglr6328 has to say about it. What looks clear to me is that we must either take all of those paragraphs out of the Over-illumination article or include these information in the Fluorescent lamp article. A.Z. 22:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
"I believe that many other people around the world dislike fluorescent bulbs as I do." (A.Z)
+1
Fluorescent lighting is awful, especially when you are subjected to it for hours upon hours in schools, office buildings, hospitals, and other institutions. Perhaps the reason is psychological, but nevertheless some people strongly dislike this type of lighting. It would be interesting to see this topic developed, but where and how is still unclear. -- Anonymous 72.57.30.206
i have heard that it takes more energy to turn on a fluorescent bulb than a incandescent bulb and therefore it may be less efficient to use a fluorescent bulb in an application where the light is turned on and off frequently. is this true? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bwiercinski ( talk • contribs) .
Here is a useful link from the UK's National Energy Foundation, with more Urban Legends, too: http://www.nef.org.uk/energyadvice/lighting.htm
This legend comes from the early days of fluorescent lighting. Starting a magnetic ballast fitting can use anything upto 3x running power for all of a couple of seconds. Somehow this has gotten grossly inflated in popular culture, with many people believing it better to leave a light on for 20 minutes than turn it off! Tabby 10:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I recently had an engineer tell me that when a fluorescent lamp dies, it will actually continue to consume power, and its wattage will increase to about 2% more than the nominal wattage. Can anyone confirm this? This is an interesting fact if it is indeed true, and probably should be included in the article, but I wanted to see what you all thought first. Mets 15:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I can think of one case—when the emission coating has gone, and the control gear is operating the lamp in cold cathode mode (as opposed to thermionic emission mode). Ideally this shouldn't happen, but not all control gear will detect the tube voltage increase associated with cold cathode operation and may continue operating the tube. The cathode fall voltage at the cold cathode will increase substantially, generating a lot more heat at the tube end, which is where the excess power ends up. Tubes can't usually operate for long in cold cathode mode before some further failure prevents operation (see main article).
(Andrew Gabriel) 81.187.162.107 21:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Glowstart fittings (US: preheat) will consume well above running power if the _starter_ dies and ends up shorted rather than o/c.
However this is a trivial issue in that it has little overall effect on the energy efficiency of fluorescent lighting. Tabby 10:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Not a trivial issue at all. It has an extreme effect on efficiency of a fluorescent lamp which is not working. A clear disadvantage vs. ordinary incandescent bulbs -- after they break, they do not use any electricity.- 69.87.193.242 11:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
But the percentage of fl amps not working _and_ using power in the world is tiny, thus it has little effect on the overall efficiency of fluorescent lighting.
Since equivalent filament lighting will have used many times as much electricity for the same number of illumination hours, even one single fl that happens to fail shorted will still have consumed way less electricity in its total lifetime, from initial switch on to final removal. So there is no disadvantage of fls there. Tabby 22:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
The lamp itself does consume power, but that is negligible (<.05A). It is the ballast that will continue to consume power. In a magnetic ballast, a non-active lamp will cause the ballast to 'hum' quite loudly. This is less of an issue with electronic ballasts as they are designed to be low-harmonic. JoeIdoni 11:03, 7 Jan 2008
Is it true that fluorescent lights take loads of power when you switch them on? How much? What is the time period that makes it worth switching off, in order to save electricity? Gwaka Lumpa 18:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I’m sure that turning the power off for a minute or more would save more power then is required to restart a fluorescent light. However, to say that turning the light off and back on uses a little extra of the life of the lamp is an understatement. One mortality life curve I have seen indicates the lamp life went from over 9,000 hours down to just 900 hours when comparing an 8 hour duty cycle to a 3 hour duty cycle. That means you get only 10% of the nominal rated life out of the lamp. Personal experience tells me that shorter duty cycles have an even more drastic reduction in lamp life.
I'm a little concerned that the mention of kinoflo's (certainly excellent) product is unsupported and seems a little eager to promote the company. There is nothing terribly special about the Kino ballasts or the tubes. The ballasts are a fairly conventional HF design operating between 50 and 150KHz (depending on the exact model and recency) and the tubes, though they have coatings made specifically for them, are no better than many commercial examples of high CRI types. People homebrew fluorescent light fittings all the time and shoot both video and motion picture film on them without any trouble at all.
I'm not in a position to provide properly referenced alternative material, but someone should look at this when they have a moment.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
This page needs to be re-organized. It looks like there's a good core article, and then a bunch of added on sections that don't match wiki tone or style, but have additional useful info. -- Mcpusc 05:33, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
I reorganized the page a bit just now, because the second heading was completely blank. It looked to me that it just needed to have its sub-sections demoted, (which is what I did), but if it was actually blank due to vandalism, could someone fix it? I couldn't see any tons'o'deletion vandalism in recent edits... Stillnotelf 17:48, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
Some U shaped or circular fluorescent tubes have a metal foil strip glued to the outside of the curve of the tube. Anyone know what the purpose of this is? It could be included in this section if there is an answer. RFabian ( talk) 19:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Could this be the ground metal mentioned at the paragraph in the wikipedia article titled: "Rapid start
Newer rapid start ballast designs provide filament power windings within the ballast; these rapidly and continuously warm the filaments/cathodes using low-voltage AC. No inductive voltage spike is produced for starting, so the lamps must be mounted near a grounded (earthed) reflector to allow the glow discharge to propagate through the tube and initiate the arc discharge. In some lamps a "starting aid" strip of grounded metal is attached to the outside of the lamp glass."
Amonalisa32304 ( talk) 01:06, 22 October 2008 (UTC)amonalisa32304
Should have more about the efficiency, like Compact fluorescent light bulb has.
Also mention the flicker annoying some people, and how it is reduced in some by upping the frequency? - Omegatron 02:35, May 28, 2005 (UTC)
Are the 2 sentences I added including "... Dr. J. Veitch ..." sufficient detail on flicker? I agree that efficiency info would be good, but I'd prefer a big table in Lighting that listed efficiency for every kind all in one place. -- DavidCary 23:56, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
Efficiency definitely needs some substance, with some numbers....
7/24/06 There must be some data somewhere about how much energy it takes to manufacture a fluorescent bulb vs. an incandescent. Also on the environmental impact of the materials used in each. My hunch is fluorescent bulbs take a lot more energy to make and are more environmentally hazardous. The longer life of the fluorescent bulb is a mitigating factor, but by how much?
This is important because the people that are trying to shame us into switching to fluorescent are only telling us we'll use less electricity to run them, and nothing about how they're made.
Please add a table of the output lumens and lumens per watt for the most common lamps and tubes. Please give data for both the tubes alone and for typical ballast-tube combinations. Please mention addition light losses in the fixture, and give typical percentages. - 69.87.201.16 11:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
It would be nice to see more details about the variation in efficiency of normal fluorescents -- a factor of two (from 7% to 15%) is quite a significant range! Exactly why are CFLs only half as efficient as the best non-compacts? What is the possibility of therefore being able to increase the efficiency of CFLs to be comparable? And if the most efficiency fluorescents are 15%, it would be great to see a detailed analysis of the other 85% -- exactly where does it go? The article mentions loss in the phosphor re-emission, which causes heating there -- what is the percentage there? What is the range of loses in various types of ballast? Where else specifically do losses occur?- 69.87.193.242 12:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I love all this detail. Please don't delete any correct information. Likely the cheap transformer type ballasts decrease efficiency a bit, and shorten tube life a bit compared to the best electronic ballasts. The tubes with a blue tint are more efficient, but most people find the light unpleasent, and our eyes respond less to blue light. The flicker affects a few people badly, but most people are affected only by the high brightness, if at all. Low speed flicker = 20 hertz or less is usually because the tube is near the end of it's life. Nearly everyone finds this slower flicker annoying. A bad tube or CFL should not affect other lights, but we should never say never. I cracked the end seal (got too hot) both times I ran a 40 watt florescent at 80 watts plus, but 50 or 60 watts is likely not dangerous, but will reduce tube life expectancy. Many of the 40 watt tubes (near the end of their life only draw about 30 watts from the mains = power company. This is especially true if the input voltage is 105 volts instead of 120 volts. I was plesently surprised when the power company supplied 62 volts rms for about an hour, but more than half of the CFLs were near full brightness. Apparently the low voltage destroyed both ballasts in a set of four 4 foot tube ficture. Is there any good reason cheap tubes of any kind won't light in an induction type fixture for tubes without terminals? I would think some worn out tubes would light that won't in any other kind of fixture. Two out of 20 CFLs = compact fluorescent produced considerable radio noise between 540 and 15,000 kilohertz. Most all fluorescents produce tiny amouts of radio noise = More than incandesant and LEDs. CFLs are slightly less efficient because perhaps 20% of the lighted surface is facing other lighted surface. Much of this mostly hidden light becomes heat. I don't think half is typical. Since the CFLs are newer technology, they are very nearly as efficient and long lived as the cheap 4 foot tubes. Ccpoodle 19:43, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
One substance that changes its apparent color dramatically under many fluirescent lamps is tomato juice. Being bright red normally, it turns then to an unpleasant brick-brown. — Monedula 10:30, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
Tabby 01:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
Some other liquids ( beer being one example) emit a sickly and almost radioactive green colour when exposed to some frequencies of light from fluorescent lamps, particularly those from black lights.
Tabby 01:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
"Fluorescent fun" ... "Alternatively, if you happen to have a Tesla coil handy, you can ..." Somehow this whole chapter doesn't strike me as very encyclopaedic. The same content could be included in the article, but under a better title than "Fluorescent fun" and written in a more matter-of-fact manner. -- 130.233.26.180 06:40, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Is it even healthy to do these things? Accidents happen you know. Especially if you're standing under a high-voltage line... or messing with a Tesla coil. ::: ---
Sounds interesting. but take hold where? Touch to surface where?
Just how much mercury vapour do these things contain? I am wondering since one exploded over me when I was young. Crusadeonilliteracy 13:11, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Its unfortunate that data on mercury from coal was removed, incl the graph. Rather it needs developing imho, eg by taking into account the propertion of coal generated power. Tabby 10:19, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I note the original author lives in Colorado, making him an American. I find "whilst" to be particularly ugly and would support a wholesale change to "while". I believe it's Wikipedia practice to follow the spelling and usage of the original author? -- Wtshymanski 03:09, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Fluorescent lamp control gear designs vary in different countries, due to very different mains voltages requiring different designs, different operating temperature ranges required, different fluorescent tube ranges available, and different customs. Terminology also varies or has different meanings; for example preheat in the US refers to a specific circuit design using an automatic starting switch, whereas in Europe it is a collective term referring to all control gear circuits which attempt to heat the tube filaments before striking the main arc (including but not limited to US preheat circuits).
The section on 'starting' a fluorescent lamp is rather US-centric both in terminology and in the control gear techniques used being more common on 120V mains than 220-240V mains supplies. I started trying to fix it to be more general, but it really needs a restructure or it would become a confusing mess. --Andrew Gabriel-- 81.187.162.107 21:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Do you have any information that can help clarify the vague Overdriven fluorescent light article? -- Dogears ( talk) 18:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone know what the silver strip is for on some fluorescent lamps? I specifically saw it on a U shaped tube from GE. My initial guess was that it is a grounding strip to dissipate any charge on the bulb. Here is a link to a picture of the bulb in question Ratsbew ( talk) 22:38, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Industrial and commercial facilities typically use internal fluorescent lighting, on a very large scale. There are many special issues associated with practical aspects of fluorescent tube re-lamping. Typically the fixtures are difficult to access, requiring ladders, disrupting other work etc. So relamping is done often in a very structured way. When a fluorescent bulb burns out, the ballast usually continues to draw power, unlike a burned out incandescent. The fixture may remain in that condition for some weeks or months, wasting power. When fluorescent tubes are all replaced at once, because it is labor efficient, they are prematurely discarded, not giving their maximum potential useful life. - 69.87.201.16 11:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
I wish this article explained how to tell if a flicker is from a bad bulb or a bad starter (or bad ballast). Also, if a lamp with four bulbs is flickering, do you have to replace all four? If not, how do you tell which need to be replaced? r3 21:44, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone tried building a fluorescent lamp without electrodes? By removing the electrodes and instead making a torus / donut shape, the mercury would form a continuous loop through the glass.
If a portion of this continuous tube were wrapped with a high-density wire coil, and the coil is powered high-voltage / high frequency current, this should be enough to start a current flow in the mercury and light the lamp. (This lamp is essentially an electrical transformer but using the conductive vapor for the secondary circuit.)
Since this would not have thermionic electrodes to sputter out, the lamp life should be extremely long and nearly unlimited (taking into account phosphor aging). Does anything like this exist?
DMahalko ( talk) 02:11, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Forgive me if this is in the article and I didn't spot it. What is the mechanism behind the increased apparent luminosity of fluorescent lamps in lower temperature environments (unheated out buildings, warehouse roof spaces ets)? It's quite obvious on a cold night, for instance. I assume that the lamps will be operating at nearly the same internal temperature, and thus need to generate more heat - resulting in them running brighter. Does this also affect the life of the lamp? 22:37, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
...or in a separate articel, would be a comment about " Circline" type lights, along with the other versions of tube bending. 68.39.174.238 ( talk) 17:27, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Since it generates the UV wave. Could it be installed in public transport systems, but safe to public health??? I couldn't find such research studies in academic journals-- 203.190.192.130 ( talk) 04:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC), and a public toilet where I have seen it....???-- 203.190.192.130 ( talk) 04:17, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
If the tech proves safe enough to use, then it can be installed alternatively in the motel/hotel rooms with multiple colour choices of UV enabled and with various motion scheme employed such as discos or movie styles, whichever suit guest's preference. This will clean up lots of dirt within the accommodation. I bet the room vacancy rate will be reduced too. So does it to health care sectors, which means if the tech is applied to hospital ward, then the chance of nosocomial infection could be greatly reduced. -- 202.14.152.15 ( talk) 01:12, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
There is hardly any coverage of dimming fluorescan's and dosn't mention current technology Back ache 10:55, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
I think the article should explain how to replace bulbs, how to tell whether the bulb or the charging capacitor needs replacing, and best practice for disposal of bulbs safely. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tomhannen ( talk • contribs) .
I guess referring to the starter, which often goes by odd names. A large local outlet here calls them 'starter motors'!
A how to section sounds like a very useful idea to me. Tabby 10:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Reference 2 leads to a "page not found" type of site. GermanSoccer3 02:44, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
An excellent article. A couple of questions and observations if I may.
1. I long ago switched to compact fluorescent lighting throughout the house. Occasionally, I encounter a bulb that starts off dim and takes several minutes to "warm up" to full output. It seems to be a bulb design issue as all five of the CF bulbs in the family room -- purchased at the same time -- do that. I didn't see that directly addressed in the article.
2. At least once, I have encountered a dead fluourescent bulb that somehow prevented any other CF bulb on the same household circuit from starting until it was removed from its socket. Again, I didn't see that addressed.
3. I didn't expect CF bulbs to work all that well in outside motion detector applications, but they do fine. The small sample I've encountered -- three bulbs -- all start reliably down to -20F (-26C) and seem to have normal lifetimes.
4. Purely anecdotal, but my wife has a gooseneck lamp with a high CRI CF bulb in it as part of her portable sewing gear. She loves it, she and her friends feel that it yields better color fidelity than incandescent bulbs.
5. The other night, I flipped off the kitchen light, turned to pick something up, and turned back just in time to see the unpowered bulb reilluminate for several seconds. Disconcerting. Presumably due to something statically charged in the bulb discharging through the gas?
My apologies if these are already addressed and I missed them in my read through of this lengthy article. Again, it's a very good article.
71.169.145.236 12:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)Donald Kenney
I was looking up efficiency information and noticed some odd claims in the introduction that fluorescent lamps were created by the government to eat brains. Another line stated that compact fluorescents do this more so than normal (? If normal could be applied here). I trimmed the lines.
"which and affects other equipment which is designed on the assumption that the input alternating current power supply is a clean sinusoidal waveform."
Deleted because
Tabby 10:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Tabby 00:26, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
"The frequency is most noticeable on CRT computer monitors set with a refresh rate similar to the frequency of the bulbs, which will appear to flicker due to the beat effect. To resolve this flicker one may change their monitor's refresh rate."
Deleted because
Tabby 10:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I thought production of these had long ceased Tabby 10:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC
Thanks Atlant. Tabby 00:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Any references to Anode and Cathode are likely to confuse, without great care. AC is used in almost all cases currently; each end takes a turn being Anode or Cathode, many times a second.- 69.87.193.242 11:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
"The mix is slowly sputtered off by bombardment with electrons and mercury ions during operation, but a larger amount is sputtered off each time the tube is started with cold cathodes. (The method of starting the lamp and hence the control gear type has a significant impact on this.) Lamps operated for typically less than 3 hours each switch-on will normally run out of the emission mix before other parts of the lamp fail."
So, some types would be very vulnerable to wearout if frequently turned on and off. And presumably some types are not so vulnerable. Please tell us more about exactly which types are least subject to such wearout, and what gives them this capacity. It seems a shame that this important matter is so confusing/confused -- it leaves us having to assume that all fluorescents have this disadvantage, even though only some do.- 69.87.193.242 11:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
"Fluorescent lamp ballasts have a power factor of less than unity. For large installations, this makes the provision of electrical power more expensive as special measures need to be taken to bring the power factor closer to unity."
I dont see anything special about pfc capacitors, theyre standard kit. Theyre included in most fl fittings, but for large areas eg industry its cheaper to use LPF fittings plus external capacitance.
More expensive than what? Certainly far cheaper than filament lamps. Tabby 07:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
The original paragraph is very simplistic, but covering power factor in conjunction with fluorescents is a non-trivial task. Capacitors can bring power factor back to nearer unity, but cannot completely correct it as the current is not simply phase shifted, and a capacitor can only correct the phase shifted contribution to the low power factor. There's also the issue of 3rd harmonic components of the current distortion, which all add in the neutral of 3-phase supplies (and 6th, 9th, etc harmonics, but they aren't so significant). There are also different control gear circuits which have different power factors. One particularly good control gear circuit which was used in the UK in more expensive luminaries was called SRS -- semi resonant start. This had a power factor of very near 1 without the need for additional correction, and was also very good at starting tubes at low temperatures.
Andrew Gabriel
81.187.162.109
23:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
With the recent move towards banning incandescents in some countries, could we have some information regarding the differences in heat output compared with fluorescent? Some businesses use incandescents as a heat source, so if a fluorescent doesn't create the same amount of heat that could potentialy be a draw-back that deserves mention. -WarHawk
The power of the lamp equals the heat output, so there isnt really much to tell. Tabby 22:36, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Simply put: Grab a 100W inc. bulb that's been on for 18 hours with your bare hand. Then grab a fluorescent bulb that's been on the same length of time. One will likely burn your hand, the other will not. JoeIdoni 11:20, 7 Jan 2008
The spectrum graphs of various fluorescent types would be easier to interpret if there was also included graphs of other light types. For example, bright sunlight, cloudy day sunlight, standard incandescent, household halogen - things people would naturally compare the fluorescent light to. 24.17.180.126 17:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
At any one instant in a domestic fluorescent lamp, what percentage of the mercury atoms are ionised, and what percentage of the inert gas fill is ionised? From the article Plasma (physics), the fact that the fill is gaseous and at least some fo the atoms are ionised does mean that it could possibly be described as a plasma - but reading more deeply, I'm not sure if fluorescent lamps meet the more rigourous definition given later on in the Plasma article. I suppose the follow on from my first question is if the plasma parameter is much, much greater than 1 (That is, is Λ>>1?) for typical fluorescent lamps? WLD 15:52, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
What is the meaning of specification "6500 W" written on the tube light?
6500K means the colour temperature is 6500K, which is a horribly cold light. Tabby 10:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
"The cool white fluorescent bulb is legally BANNED in German hospitals and medical facilities." I read this at the Internet. You can find some sources by looking up on google.
I don't speak English very well (I'm Brazilian), but I'm writing in this site because I strongly believe that fluorescent bulbs are very bad for human health, and I believe people in here are interested in researching and finding information about the health hazards fluorescent bulbs may cause in humans. I can't just write this in the article, because I have no scientific source to cite.
The phrase above, about German hospitals, was the closest I could get in my research for some evidence that some government thinks fluorescent bulbs are not good to people. I hope someone in here studies it further, and some reliable fact about health concerns may be put into the article. Wikipedia can be the place to inform people about this important issue.
I believe that many other people around the world dislike fluorescent bulbs as I do. In fact, I think many have come to this article, as I have, looking for some information about all the symptoms fluorescent light may cause. But there is nothing about it on the article! If you look up on the Internet, you will find many websites and blogs with people complaining about fluorescent lights. I believe this information needs to be on this article.
Here are some links I found on a quick Google search on this very important subject:
I believe it would be good, if someone is interested, to research more about this and then write a Wikipedia article about Health Hazards fluorescent lamps cause or to write down a section in this article.
A.Z. 19:22, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi. My dermatologist has just told me that my dermatitis is being aggravated by fluorescent lights at my workplace. I can't find any references to back this up but apparently it is relatively well accepted idea. He said it was the radiation produced rather than the light itself, not sure if he was referring to the UV radiation or to electromagnetic radiation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.68.171.128 ( talk • contribs) .
Wikipedia article on
Over-illumination states the following:
"Incorrect spectra (such as fluorescent globes) provide too intense illumination in certain frequency bands compared to other bands. The desired spectrum is that of natural light, which the body is expecting and which is used to set the circadian rhythms of all higher forms of animal life."
"Too great an emphasis upon fluorescent (as opposed to natural) light contribute to incidence of headache.[8]"
"Some studies have shown that the flicker and over-illumination combined in some fluorescent systems yield particularly high fatigue incidence. Research on circadian rhythm in humans indicates that one reason for fatigue stems from the incorrect color spectrum of fluorescent light. For example, the brain of a worker under intense fluorescent light for eight hours perceives itself to have been in total darkness and hence is preparing to sleep under its circadian setting[9]"
"It is clear that brighter, less spectrally correct light induces clinically measurable stress,[10] and it is suggested that for children this over-illumination may interfere with the learning process. For example, in dysgraphia, a defect of learning to write, children experiencing any form of stress are subject to greater incidence of this learning disability. Task performance can also be compromised for people conducting work under artificial (e.g. fluorescent as opposed to natural light)[7]"
"Fluorescent lighting has also been linked to aggravating other psychological disorders such as agoraphobia.[12]"
"Adverse outcomes seem to arise most commonly among workers subject to intense fluorescent light, which is poorly matched to the spectrum of sunlight. According to one set of researchers, the body translates this condition as "total darkness" and resets the circadian clock incorrectly[citation needed]. Not only does this result in fatigue, but also immuno-suppressive behaviour that has been shown to be linked to increased cancers. The research indicates that increasing the ratio of natural light to artificial solves much of the problem, provided the total illumination level is not driven excessively high. Many of these health impacts may be primarily due to the spectrum of the light rather than the overall level of illumination, but more research is required to establish this."
I'd like to know what Deglr6328 has to say about it. What looks clear to me is that we must either take all of those paragraphs out of the Over-illumination article or include these information in the Fluorescent lamp article. A.Z. 22:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
"I believe that many other people around the world dislike fluorescent bulbs as I do." (A.Z)
+1
Fluorescent lighting is awful, especially when you are subjected to it for hours upon hours in schools, office buildings, hospitals, and other institutions. Perhaps the reason is psychological, but nevertheless some people strongly dislike this type of lighting. It would be interesting to see this topic developed, but where and how is still unclear. -- Anonymous 72.57.30.206
i have heard that it takes more energy to turn on a fluorescent bulb than a incandescent bulb and therefore it may be less efficient to use a fluorescent bulb in an application where the light is turned on and off frequently. is this true? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bwiercinski ( talk • contribs) .
Here is a useful link from the UK's National Energy Foundation, with more Urban Legends, too: http://www.nef.org.uk/energyadvice/lighting.htm
This legend comes from the early days of fluorescent lighting. Starting a magnetic ballast fitting can use anything upto 3x running power for all of a couple of seconds. Somehow this has gotten grossly inflated in popular culture, with many people believing it better to leave a light on for 20 minutes than turn it off! Tabby 10:25, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I recently had an engineer tell me that when a fluorescent lamp dies, it will actually continue to consume power, and its wattage will increase to about 2% more than the nominal wattage. Can anyone confirm this? This is an interesting fact if it is indeed true, and probably should be included in the article, but I wanted to see what you all thought first. Mets 15:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I can think of one case—when the emission coating has gone, and the control gear is operating the lamp in cold cathode mode (as opposed to thermionic emission mode). Ideally this shouldn't happen, but not all control gear will detect the tube voltage increase associated with cold cathode operation and may continue operating the tube. The cathode fall voltage at the cold cathode will increase substantially, generating a lot more heat at the tube end, which is where the excess power ends up. Tubes can't usually operate for long in cold cathode mode before some further failure prevents operation (see main article).
(Andrew Gabriel) 81.187.162.107 21:52, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Glowstart fittings (US: preheat) will consume well above running power if the _starter_ dies and ends up shorted rather than o/c.
However this is a trivial issue in that it has little overall effect on the energy efficiency of fluorescent lighting. Tabby 10:28, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Not a trivial issue at all. It has an extreme effect on efficiency of a fluorescent lamp which is not working. A clear disadvantage vs. ordinary incandescent bulbs -- after they break, they do not use any electricity.- 69.87.193.242 11:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
But the percentage of fl amps not working _and_ using power in the world is tiny, thus it has little effect on the overall efficiency of fluorescent lighting.
Since equivalent filament lighting will have used many times as much electricity for the same number of illumination hours, even one single fl that happens to fail shorted will still have consumed way less electricity in its total lifetime, from initial switch on to final removal. So there is no disadvantage of fls there. Tabby 22:33, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
The lamp itself does consume power, but that is negligible (<.05A). It is the ballast that will continue to consume power. In a magnetic ballast, a non-active lamp will cause the ballast to 'hum' quite loudly. This is less of an issue with electronic ballasts as they are designed to be low-harmonic. JoeIdoni 11:03, 7 Jan 2008
Is it true that fluorescent lights take loads of power when you switch them on? How much? What is the time period that makes it worth switching off, in order to save electricity? Gwaka Lumpa 18:56, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I’m sure that turning the power off for a minute or more would save more power then is required to restart a fluorescent light. However, to say that turning the light off and back on uses a little extra of the life of the lamp is an understatement. One mortality life curve I have seen indicates the lamp life went from over 9,000 hours down to just 900 hours when comparing an 8 hour duty cycle to a 3 hour duty cycle. That means you get only 10% of the nominal rated life out of the lamp. Personal experience tells me that shorter duty cycles have an even more drastic reduction in lamp life.
I'm a little concerned that the mention of kinoflo's (certainly excellent) product is unsupported and seems a little eager to promote the company. There is nothing terribly special about the Kino ballasts or the tubes. The ballasts are a fairly conventional HF design operating between 50 and 150KHz (depending on the exact model and recency) and the tubes, though they have coatings made specifically for them, are no better than many commercial examples of high CRI types. People homebrew fluorescent light fittings all the time and shoot both video and motion picture film on them without any trouble at all.
I'm not in a position to provide properly referenced alternative material, but someone should look at this when they have a moment.