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Seems important. Shame it is hard to follow...
"In 1830 the southern provinces of the United Netherlands proclaimed their independence. French-dialect speaking population, as well as the administration and elites, feared the loss of their status and autonomy under Dutch rule while the rapid industrialization in the south highlighted economic differences between the two. Under French rule (1794–1815), French was enforced as the only official language in public life, resulting in a Frenchification of the elites and, to a lesser extent, the middle classes. The Dutch King allowed the use of both Dutch and French dialects as administrative languages in the Flemish provinces. He also enacted laws to reestablish Dutch in schools.[8] The language policy was not the only cause of the secession; the Roman Catholic majority viewed the sovereign, the Protestant William I, with suspicion and were heavily stirred by the Roman Catholic Church which suspected William of wanting to enforce Protestantism. Lastly, Belgian liberals were dissatisfied with William for his allegedly despotic behaviour.[citation needed]
Following the revolt, the language reforms of 1823 were the first Dutch laws to be abolished and the subsequent years would see a number of laws restricting the use of the Dutch language.[9] This policy led to the gradual emergence of the Flemish Movement, that was built on earlier anti-French feelings of injustice, as expressed in writings (for example by the late 18th-century writer, Jan Verlooy) which criticized the Southern Francophile elites. The efforts of this movement during the following 150 years, have to no small extent facilitated the creation of the de jure social, political and linguistic equality of Dutch from the end of the 19th century.[citation needed]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.162.35 ( talk) 01:36, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
“The modern Belgian province of Limburg was not part of the treaty” (fist paragraph under History)… but no treaty to be found in the text above. (In fact, no other occurrence of treaty in the page.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DominiqueM ( talk • contribs) 10:57, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
I wish to thank Iryna Harpy and DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered among others for their contributions. In no way did I wish to start an edit war! My edits really were intended in good faith. Of course edits should go to the talk page, and I will do so in future. I was quite surprised that my ISP was changing my address so frequently. I hardly ever reboot my router and yet I see several different addresses on my edits. Very best regards to you all!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:1811:429:f200:ad9c:54ff:4e85:4496 ( talk) 23:43, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
Flemish people do not speak French as a native language. I am flemish myselve and I actualy can speak a bit of French beacause I learened it as a foreign language at school. There is no part of Flanders where French is nativly spoken, it is an official language in the Brussels capital region along with Dutch but Brussels isn’t a part of Flanders anymore and the native language spoken in Brussels used to be a Brabantian dialect of Dutch. Furthermore, Dutch is the sole official language of the Flemish comunity. Therefore, I have tried to edid the mistake in this article twice, but everytime I do someone reverted my edid. Due to this I opened this New talk page. I hope this way I can provide a sufficient argumentation to convince everyone. Falco iron ( talk) 19:28, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
"when compared to the Netherlands most of these cultural and linguistic differences quickly fade, as the Flemish share the same language, similar or identical customs and (though chiefly with the southern part of today's Netherlands) traditional religion with the Dutch."
I can't read the source, I wouldn't be surprised if this is made up, especially the "traditional religion" thing, what's that even supposed to mean? What does "quickly fade" mean? The "language" is quite different, the customs differ widely. Flemish customs are quite different from Walloon customs, but they're more similar to Walloon customs then they are to Dutch customs, to which they are widely different, with some exceptions, like the work ethic is quite strong in both Flemish and Dutch people, but then you could also say that when compared to Germany, differences in customs "quickly fade". You could probably count the exclusive similarities between Flemish and Dutch culture with one hand (language, Zwarte Piet, that's all I can think of). There's also this map of presumably the Medieval dialects of Dutch going around on Wikipedia, and people use it -and the map itself is named- as if it's the current linguistic situation, which is simply not true.
Of course Wikipedia isn't about the truth but rather about sources, however most of these sources aren't able to be read online and thus I can't check if they're even correctly cited. I'd love to create a more descriptive environment on Flemish culture on Wikipedia, but I can't. Can someone help me? I don't know how to fix this without spending literally weeks, months or even years on it, I've been wanting to fix this for years now, but I'm not an academic, I have a life, and I can't take on such a massive undertaking on my own. Please contact me if you'd like to help me out, some suggestions on what I can do for example would be much appreciated. Dapperedavid ( talk) 19:06, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that sentence or the source mentioned. Traditional religion refers to Catholicism, which Flanders shares with the Southern Netherlands; despite the number of adherents dropping steadily in both countries. Regards, Vlaemink ( talk) 12:32, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian ( talk) 20:35, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Flemish people → Flemings – Google Ngram shows that 'Flemings' is more widely used. It is the most concise as well. What do you think about my proposal? Srapa ( talk) 20:59, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
|
On 14 January 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Flemings. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
|
|||
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Seems important. Shame it is hard to follow...
"In 1830 the southern provinces of the United Netherlands proclaimed their independence. French-dialect speaking population, as well as the administration and elites, feared the loss of their status and autonomy under Dutch rule while the rapid industrialization in the south highlighted economic differences between the two. Under French rule (1794–1815), French was enforced as the only official language in public life, resulting in a Frenchification of the elites and, to a lesser extent, the middle classes. The Dutch King allowed the use of both Dutch and French dialects as administrative languages in the Flemish provinces. He also enacted laws to reestablish Dutch in schools.[8] The language policy was not the only cause of the secession; the Roman Catholic majority viewed the sovereign, the Protestant William I, with suspicion and were heavily stirred by the Roman Catholic Church which suspected William of wanting to enforce Protestantism. Lastly, Belgian liberals were dissatisfied with William for his allegedly despotic behaviour.[citation needed]
Following the revolt, the language reforms of 1823 were the first Dutch laws to be abolished and the subsequent years would see a number of laws restricting the use of the Dutch language.[9] This policy led to the gradual emergence of the Flemish Movement, that was built on earlier anti-French feelings of injustice, as expressed in writings (for example by the late 18th-century writer, Jan Verlooy) which criticized the Southern Francophile elites. The efforts of this movement during the following 150 years, have to no small extent facilitated the creation of the de jure social, political and linguistic equality of Dutch from the end of the 19th century.[citation needed]" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.162.35 ( talk) 01:36, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
“The modern Belgian province of Limburg was not part of the treaty” (fist paragraph under History)… but no treaty to be found in the text above. (In fact, no other occurrence of treaty in the page.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DominiqueM ( talk • contribs) 10:57, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
I wish to thank Iryna Harpy and DisillusionedBitterAndKnackered among others for their contributions. In no way did I wish to start an edit war! My edits really were intended in good faith. Of course edits should go to the talk page, and I will do so in future. I was quite surprised that my ISP was changing my address so frequently. I hardly ever reboot my router and yet I see several different addresses on my edits. Very best regards to you all!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a02:1811:429:f200:ad9c:54ff:4e85:4496 ( talk) 23:43, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
Flemish people do not speak French as a native language. I am flemish myselve and I actualy can speak a bit of French beacause I learened it as a foreign language at school. There is no part of Flanders where French is nativly spoken, it is an official language in the Brussels capital region along with Dutch but Brussels isn’t a part of Flanders anymore and the native language spoken in Brussels used to be a Brabantian dialect of Dutch. Furthermore, Dutch is the sole official language of the Flemish comunity. Therefore, I have tried to edid the mistake in this article twice, but everytime I do someone reverted my edid. Due to this I opened this New talk page. I hope this way I can provide a sufficient argumentation to convince everyone. Falco iron ( talk) 19:28, 1 March 2018 (UTC)
"when compared to the Netherlands most of these cultural and linguistic differences quickly fade, as the Flemish share the same language, similar or identical customs and (though chiefly with the southern part of today's Netherlands) traditional religion with the Dutch."
I can't read the source, I wouldn't be surprised if this is made up, especially the "traditional religion" thing, what's that even supposed to mean? What does "quickly fade" mean? The "language" is quite different, the customs differ widely. Flemish customs are quite different from Walloon customs, but they're more similar to Walloon customs then they are to Dutch customs, to which they are widely different, with some exceptions, like the work ethic is quite strong in both Flemish and Dutch people, but then you could also say that when compared to Germany, differences in customs "quickly fade". You could probably count the exclusive similarities between Flemish and Dutch culture with one hand (language, Zwarte Piet, that's all I can think of). There's also this map of presumably the Medieval dialects of Dutch going around on Wikipedia, and people use it -and the map itself is named- as if it's the current linguistic situation, which is simply not true.
Of course Wikipedia isn't about the truth but rather about sources, however most of these sources aren't able to be read online and thus I can't check if they're even correctly cited. I'd love to create a more descriptive environment on Flemish culture on Wikipedia, but I can't. Can someone help me? I don't know how to fix this without spending literally weeks, months or even years on it, I've been wanting to fix this for years now, but I'm not an academic, I have a life, and I can't take on such a massive undertaking on my own. Please contact me if you'd like to help me out, some suggestions on what I can do for example would be much appreciated. Dapperedavid ( talk) 19:06, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with that sentence or the source mentioned. Traditional religion refers to Catholicism, which Flanders shares with the Southern Netherlands; despite the number of adherents dropping steadily in both countries. Regards, Vlaemink ( talk) 12:32, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian ( talk) 20:35, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Flemish people → Flemings – Google Ngram shows that 'Flemings' is more widely used. It is the most concise as well. What do you think about my proposal? Srapa ( talk) 20:59, 14 January 2023 (UTC)