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Isn't it time we removed filth like this from the internet? Also a fictional act such as the one described herein is hardly "encyclopedic". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.111.63.147 ( talk) 11:25, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
You forgot to point out the Obvious. This person did a search to wind up on this page in the first place and apparently is interested in learning more about this "filth". I do have an issue with the page though, there is no section on the safeness of the act. Is there any risk of anal muscle injury to the fistee? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.116.149.212 ( talk) 18:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
I am glad people can come to wiki to learn about these things. until today i didn't even know fisting existed. i would never do it though 65.183.212.114 ( talk) 01:10, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
The real-life images on this page are too obscene for Wikipedia. They should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.10.61.128 ( talk) 13:38, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
The request above for a section on the risks of this act is very reasonable. I shall initiate such a section. Warren Zhang ( talk) 03:20, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Point under risks referenced by 8 is only valid if injury occurs. Air in itself is never a problem.. or tampons or normal sexual intercourse would already pose risks. The statement as made based on the reference is incorrect and unverifiable. Please adjust. Anon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.46.202.80 ( talk) 13:17, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I deleted the first picture of Michaelangelo's Last Judgement because it is a wrong interpratation of the fresco in the church. As you can see in the original image (at the bottom on the right) that hand is not inside the uppper body.
Picture removed from article: (do not repost please) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Michelangelo_-_Punishment_of_sodomy.png
Original photo of the fresco: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lastjudgement.jpg (Hi-Res) Please see original image. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.64.82.208 ( talk) 23:07, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Know what, the original provided here does not illustrate what the article is illustrating. If a corruption is needed to illustrate it then obviously it cannot be attributed to the original source. But why does there need to be any illustartion at all? The article is illustrative enough and it doesn't require much imagination to see a hand inserted into an anus or vagina. Using no censorship to include a vulgar image isn't reason enough if it doesn't add to the article's usefulness. Even if these conditions are satisfied there is still an issue with copyright. Public domain only applies to the original work so if someone makes substantial changes to a derivitive it may be regarded as their own ip without affecting the status of the original. Biofase flame| stalk 22:35, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
-- Dak ( talk) 18:30, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
re 1: as i said, if you check the wp article on the picture, you'll find that it depicts the act of sodomy, not the punishment for sodomy (seriously, the punishment for sodomy isn't going to be more sodomy, is it?). it's fair to assume, then, that the act depicts consensual sodomy, tho, according to you (and i'd agree), "any reference to what Michelangelo intended is completely moot". It appears to be fisting. ergo, it is. claims as to consent or otherwize IN REGUARDS TO A PAINTING are somewhat irrelevent, barring it clearly being one or the other (which it isn't). it just depicts sodomy (neither clearly rape, nor clearly consensual); Michaelangelo probably intended it to be consensual, as he's depicting kinky perversions in that part of the painting (not punishments).
re2: It is not modified (other than the colour drained), tho i do agree on closer inspection that the fist is not in the anus (in either the original or the image in the article... looking closely, you can see the curled fingers in both images). however, it does look like it is attempted, mid, or pre-fisting (or possibly anal fingering), and at a glance the fingers aren't notisable so it just looks like fisting).
re4: ok, then here's my suggestion:
An alternative, as the image is in the public domain, is that one of us could modify it to appear more like fisting, release our modifications into the public domain, declair that our derived work depicts consensual sodomy, upload it as 'sodomy (modified from public-domain work by Michaelangelo)', and use that for the article?
-- Dak ( talk) 01:29, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
If the Sixtine Chapel has an image of a guy putting a fist up some other's guy ass, then I would expect that some source would comment on this fact. Either a sexuality book explaining the sexual ideas at that time or the history of fisting, or a religious book explaining what sort of punishment it was and why it was depicted like that, or even a popular culture book listing curiosities in art. The pictures on the chapel have been very studied, so there should be some source talking about that one. Then, we can use their assesment of the significance of the picture. Without any source, and with so many doubts about the actual action, I wouldn't use that picture at all. -- Enric Naval ( talk) 21:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
We will never know if the apparent act is intended. Mich was a practicing gay and is well know for leaving various symbolic messages in his works. 1. The original position of David has his finger pointing in an accusative way at Rome. 2. Creation of Adam shows an outline of the human brain dissected. The message is that God is entirely in mans' mind. 3. Fisting. Perhaps a private joke. One thing completely absent from Mich's work are Cherubs. We can be sure that he wasn't a child molester. 220.244.84.234 ( talk) 03:03, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Why is there a Citation Needed tag for: "Fisting has been performed on (and by) both men and women; gay, straight and otherwise."
This is pretty much common knowledge. Ever hear of the Romans? pjh3000 ( talk) 20:37, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Some fistees also enjoy deeper penetration, in which the hand or hands are inserted into the sigmoid colon and large intestine, with the most experienced sometimes being able to accommodate the arm or arms all the way up to the shoulder. This statement is probably the most ridiculously dubious I have ever come across in this type of article. We're talking about human beings here, not ruminants. There is no fricking way you can insert a human arm up to the shoulder up another human's arsehole (without killing them). I tend to think that this was put in as a hoax - can anyone actually cite this, or it's going to get the chop! — JulesVerne ( talk) 16:48, 07 December 2009 (GMT)
In a sigmoidoscopy, the rigid “sigmoidoscope is advanced, usually as far up as the sigmoid colon or descending colon.” (“ Sigmoidoscopy,” Encylopedia. MedlinePlus. (Retrieved 2009-12-09.))
Also, remember that the entire large intestine — from the cecum to the anus — is flexible; it is not rigid. The poor medical intern tasked with performing a digital disimpaction may, on rare occasion — in an examination under anesthetic — have to insert himself/herself as far as the sigmoid colon. — Spike Toronto 20:05, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm curious as to why a couple of entries - fisting and creampie(sex act) - have a request for photographs associated to the article in the discussion tab.
Yet from what I saw in the creampie - there is an ongoing battle/argument over having photographs. When photos are uploaded they're deleted.
Why have this "request for photographs" on entries about explicit sexual acts?
Rayngrant ( talk) 22:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)Ray Grant
In Italian culture, the current third picture is the "fig" sign, and considered incredibly obscene. It is referenced in Dante's Inferno. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.156.202 ( talk) 02:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
The drama that ensues with depictions of extreme sex acts is usually well over the top, but most come from the batshit insane OMGCENSOREVERYTHING angle. I, whilst not being pro-censorship in any way, am against depictions of hardcore acts that would generally recieve an above R18+ rating purely because I know for a fact that thousands of schools across the world will be spoiled sports, and god knows when the nazi.. uh, I mean government in Australia brings in the filter we can kiss Wikipedia goodbye. If the photo even ADDS to understanding beyond what the text does, even just BARELY, I'd totally err on the side of inclusion. But in this instance, the article is very well written and descriptive and the photograph in question adds absolutely nothing beyond controversy and dramu generation by trolls. Ironically it seems to be trolls trolling trolls, as trolls want the porn, and trolls baww about wanting it down. 124.179.19.254 ( talk) 11:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
What exactly does this have to do with WikiProject LGBT studies? Associating fisting specifically with that is kind of offensive. Anal sex I can see, but fisting? That seems to cross a line. Unless there are studies to back up the idea that gays and/or lesbians are the predominant practitioners, it's a blind and somewhat prejudiced assumption. -- Mattbrown04 ( talk) 02:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
are editors using a still-animated pic for illustrations of this sexual act? Is it that bad of a taboo that it cannot be shown graphically? I thought Wikipedia was uncensored. LaRouxEMP ( talk) 12:41, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
This article contains
instructions, advice, or how-to content. |
Needs work. TyrS chatties 02:08, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Currently the focus is almost exclusively on women doing vaginal fisting, with an extensive list of porn actresses and no mention or illustration of men self-fisting or getting fisted. Please do not remove the Unbalanced box without discussion here. TyrS chatties 02:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
{{
Unbalanced}}
is used in those instances where one suspects an intention motivated by mala fides. I do not believe that there was ever such an animus with this wikiarticle. Rather, I think that no one has yet contributed the male-as-fistee viewpoint/perspective. Nor has anyone added such gay porn fisting luminaries as the glorious
Ashley Ryder. But, that doesn’t mean that their absence from the article is a result of
undue weight having been intentionally given to the female-as-fistee viewpoint/perspective at the expense of the male-as-fistee viewpoint/perspective. Rather, it is just that the article currently lacks sufficient breadth. Some form of
section expansion template might have been more appropriate.I do agree, TyrS, that you have hit upon something that this article lacks and that is the male-as-fistee perspective. If you have a yen to see it added, why not write up such a section? It would certainly lend greater breadth to the article. (But, can you imagine the edit war that would ensue if there were any such images added to article?! Sheesh!) — Spike Toronto 06:36, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Please add Aria Giovanni to section "People noted to have engaged in fisting". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.112.249.25 ( talk) 07:57, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm doing a (non-admin) closure of this because the outcome is very clear from Wikipedia policy, despite emotions running high for some parties on both sides of the debate (and because I had time to kill, not wanting to be out and about on a night full of drunk drivers). I'm closing it a couple of days early, because the discussion entirely died out over a week ago, and even if it had not, the only way the outcome would be different is if policy radically changed suddenly and radically. Furthermore, an alternative image was proposed, making the debate borderline moot, and pointlessly delaying likely replacement of the image that no one really likes.
While the arguments for just removing the image are not generally unreasoned, and claims that removal=homophobia are unreasonable, the arguments in favor of inclusion are stronger and clearly reflect Wikipedia norms much better. I will go over every identifiable argument and explain how it factored. That the arguments to remove the image are all over the map, sometimes contradictory, and over the course of the debate sometimes abandoned is all highly significant. I've detailed all the clearly articulated debate points, even the trivial ones, and their applicability because I think this RFC may have good value as something to look back on for this article's progress and that of others when image flamewars pop up. PS: This closure is modeled on that of Talk:Gokkun#RFC on Image Inclusion, by Magog the Ogre ( talk · contribs). Reading it, BTW, is actually of strong relevance to further discussion about using artistic interpretations instead of photographs especially in articles about sexuality topics.
Arguments for removing the image
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Arguments for keeping the image
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Happy new year! —
SMcCandish
Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ
Contribs.
08:03, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Full debate
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Is it just me, or does it seem totally illogical that a photograph depicting some dude getting fisted is neccessary to illustrate this article when we have far better material available that won't give schools across the world an excuse to ban wiki from classrooms? Being a horndog I have ALWAYS supported the uncensored wiki, but even by Australian ACMA ratings systems if / when the filter comes in here, that image is that excessive that it'd definitely get Wiki b& for all of us. Does it help convey more information than the article already does? No. Is it neccessary or essential to provide an informative element in and of itself? No. Does it in any way enhance the understanding of the act beyond what the words of the article does? No. So, I submit that this image serves absolutely no purpose and would ask that it be removed. 124.179.19.254 ( talk) 11:28, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
The male image is no more objectionable than the female one, which compounds the depiction with onanism and isn't even anatomically correct. -- 2.29.162.88 ( talk · contribs) 17:04, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I have no strong opinion about the image in contention, but the other image should be removed because it is worse. It doesn't tell me anything about fisting, it just tells me what happens if you put indesign and a straight male virgin in the same room. And how long is that woman's left thigh? -- FormerIP ( talk) 01:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC) Can someone please remove this disgusting and offensive image? How could anyone possibly think this is appropriate. Children use this site for gods sake!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.154.17.166 ( talk) 01::42, 3 December 2011 (UTC) There is also a page on suicide, but you don't see a photo of someone with their head blown off with a shotgun, or a baby after it was aborted on the abortion page. Fisting is also just as repulsive and really is not significant to warrant this. What kind of sick deviant would let someone do this? Disturbing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.154.17.166 ( talk) 03:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Deliberate breakI started the discussion regarding this image and I would like to clarify a few things so we can speedily reach consensus.
Thanks -- Camilo Sanchez ( talk) 06:19, 21 December 2011 (UTC) Edit request from barts1a
Not done. When you ignore the "I don't like it", the accusations of homophobia, ad hominems ("should be ashamed of themselves") and the "per aboves" and look at the actual comments, there is no clear consensus that the image should be removed. There is discussion about whether it is a good illustration for the topic or not (which is what the discussion should be about), but there is no consensus either way yet. As Wikipedia is not censored, there is no more reason to remove this image pending consensus than any other image. Thryduulf ( talk) 00:43, 4 December 2011 (UTC) Reactivating request. It seems to me that consensus of the RfC is to remove the image. Barts1a | Talk to me | Yell at me 04:32, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
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Separate from the above discussion, does the image of the gloves in the gallery really add to the article? The caption is overly long, and should probably be moved to the body of the article - if you need that much text to show relevance to the article either it's not relevant or the article is missing something. If a picture is necessary, it's a low quality image and doesn't explain why a fisting glove is any different to a normal PVC glove (is it?) - if it isn't different, would something like File:PVC-Handschuh.jpg be better? Thryduulf ( talk) 00:56, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
OR
The so-called "Gallery of Fisting Hand Positions" is pure original research. No, seriously — it shouldn't be there. Carrite ( talk) 02:09, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Per these two (now combined sections), I've removed the gallery as it didn't add to the article (galleries are discouraged anyway, see WP:GALLERIES) and wasn't sourced. I have though moved the first image (the "duck beak" hand position) to an inline image as it does illustrate the first part of the "Techniques" section and so can't be classed as OR. That isn't to say that we should (or equally that we should not have it), but it needs to be discussed separately. Thryduulf ( talk) 11:08, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Given that masturbation has been divided with two sub-headings under "male" and "female" techniques, I propose one of the following splits might appease some of the "social discomforts" people may have with regards this article being all squashed into a few poorly organised paragraphs:
Given that vaginal is "purely" sexual, being a sexual organ, and anal is "speculatively" sexual, being part of the digestive tract, and probably not advised by many doctors due to the greater risk of rectal damage, it would be more responsible to divide the "forms" of fisting, and under those sub-headings further discuss pleasures/risks, and also allows for homosexual male practices to be better placed, rather than mixed in with female techniques that are "the norm" to most people, even those without homophobic sentiments, anal contact is "taboo", "unsafe" or just "yuck". Bear in mind homosexuality is a "minority group" and it is unreasonable to place a stronger gay-POV over heterosexual practices, when a more neutral method can be and should be applied to remove any and all form of discrimination, to gay and straight people. Though wiki does not censor, and does not make attempts to separate hetero/homosexual ideas too distinctly, we should bear in mind that anal intercourse, carries a stigma in many cultures and religions (sometimes leading to noose), so splitting means those people are not forced to read "all or nothing", and give them means to complain, or edit war – which is always a good aim of any "controversial" topic, keep the issues separate to minimise damage when trouble stirs. Also the higher degree of infection from anal "exploration" should be separately identified.
As an encyclopedia the article should not only be discussing the practices in terms of what it looks like, as seems to be the clear agenda from certain groups forcing the picture issue and arguing the toss. If people want to know what it feels like to have a hand shoved up their arse, they need only try it, no photo on Earth is going to provide that answer! The article needs to be more objective, and less porn-like. What is important is that someone develop a more neutral article, or two if necessary, from what exists, and make three or four sets of "fisting" context rather than one:
And for those who disagree: If there's going to be a major LGBT WikiProject to focus on LGBT issues, then where's the focus if vaginal/anal are all crammed into one paragraph, causing more disagreements than are absolutely necessary?
If you still disagree.. you know where you can stick it!
Ma®©usBritish [ Chat • RFF 11:54, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Why don't we just remove filth like this from the internet?! It's disgusting! --- 68.103.24.102 ( talk) 04:11, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Which version of the article image set is better The current version as of 03:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC+8) or the version as of 18:00, 14 February 2012 (UTC+8)? Barts1a / What did I actually do right? / What did I do wrong this time? 00:01, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Why is it that the image of a woman engaging in fisting is an illustration, and the male image is a photo? Could this be a double standard? Should we introduce an illustration to replace the photo for the male, if only for the sake of consistency, and to eliminate any double standards? Cr@$h3d@t@ t@1k t0 m3 09:27, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
Someone should mention shoulder-deep anal fisting and all the info about it. 72.82.180.111 ( talk) 23:28, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
There should be a section in the article about the history of anal and vaginal fisting.
Noting that File:Sissy in schoolgirl uniform gets anally fisted.jpg, which was removed by Largefoot ( talk · contribs) (seen here, where the removal was reverted) and by Paulinho28 (seen here, where the removal was reverted) is up for deletion here by one of the editors who watches the Fisting article. So that's three editors clearly objecting to the image, and two clearly wanting it to remain. I'm indifferent on the matter; well, mostly indifferent. By that, I mean that, as was noted on Largefoot's user talk page, it's not a good image for the subject by displaying the man in a schoolgirl uniform, but it's the only image of anal fisting freely available to Wikipedia. It should be cropped to only show the anal fisting, and the title of the image should then be changed to better reflect the imagery; I'm sure that the title of the image (the inclusion of the term sissy) is one of the things that has bugged some editors about the image, though I am not offended by the title. Like the aforementioned linked deletion discussion shows, the image was also up for deletion earlier this year. Flyer22 ( talk) 14:59, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I came across this article via Gawker.com. I found the photos in the article to be totally unsuitable for younger audiences, X-Rated images, and they are basically pornography! Therefore the photos should be removed without questioning and are absolutely not appropriate to be on Wikipedia which is a public website! Polloloco51 ( talk) 03:24, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Update: I went ahead and removed the two images. Wikipedia is a public educational website accessed by all ages, and isn't a pornographic website. Polloloco51 ( talk) 03:48, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia is accessed by people of all ages. Removing the clearly pornographic images is not censorship but rather keeping Wikipedia a healthy educational encyclopedic website. People from 8 years old to 100 can access this article. Unless a warning can be placed prior to someone accessing the article and the pornographic images, the images should be pulled until then. Polloloco51 ( talk) 04:01, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
It is not the matter of liking the images or not, that is irrelevant! The images are pornographic, X-rated and are not appropriate for an encyclopedic website that is accessed by all ages! Polloloco51 ( talk) 04:04, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
The images add nothing to learning about "fisting". Again, it is not the matter of liking the images or not, that's totally irrelevant period. The images are what they are. They are pornographic, X-Rated, and extremely inappropriate for younger audiences who may especially accidentally come across the article accidentally. The best way to visually demonstrate "fisting", is perhaps illustrated pictures rather than photos taken by god knows who, during sexual intercourse. Polloloco51 ( talk) 04:46, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
"Controversial images should follow the principle of 'least astonishment': we should choose images that respect the conventional expectations of readers for a given topic as much as is possible without sacrificing the quality of the article. For example, editors selecting images for articles like Human body have thousands of images of naked bodies and body parts available to them, but they normally choose images that portray the human body in an unemotional, non-sexual standard anatomical position over more sexual images due to greater relevance to the subject―the more sexual one is not given special favor simply because it is more offensive." I don't see how this article needs the two photographs. I can't see them as anything other than their submitters getting their jollies by exhibitionism rather than genuine contribution to the subject matter. The illustration is the "least astonishing"; the two photos do nothing to enhance understanding of the subject matter but only perhaps gratify whoever submitted them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.33.156.163 ( talk) 00:31, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Firstly, I appeal to the human behind posting the articles and images not the author hiding behind the technical policies and codes on this matter, I'm sure this has been debated and discussed and could be done elsewhere but im doing what i can here and now where i can. This is important. It is not to anyone's significant disadvantage to resolve this issue, but to a majorities advantage, and I ask that you take a closer look at your moral compasses and regardless of what is allowed on Wikipedia by their standards or not, I ask that you would "just do what is right" and don't be a rock in everyone's shoe. Just because you technically can do something it does not mean its right or that you should do it. Again, this is important, perhaps more than you can entirely realize. With far reaching negative effects and consequences.
Secondly, Images for sexuality information on Wikipedia is not necessary. A description is enough. Cartoon pictures do not make it any less inappropriate. Wikipedia is not a How-to manual it is an Encyclopedia. The indecent pictures to these pages could not possibly have been put up by a serious responsible minded researcher and author. Along side information content, Wikipedia should stand for equal access opportunity and consideration for the whole community of users.
Minors could access this and or be exposed to it by other minors and it would constitute carnal knowledge. Whether its allowed or not, you are the one responsible for allowing that to be possible to happen. Think of the children. Everyone should be considered, the Wikipedia encyclopedia should be created for our children, everyone's children and all the future generations of children for educational purposes first and foremost for the education of our young learning minds, who do not need to be exposed to this material in graphical form.
I cant believe I have to be even trying to fight against this. Whoever put these sexuality pages up is inconsiderate for starters but to put up the images and to defend themselves for it is really inconsiderate, irresponsible and inappropriate. I first cam across these sexuality articles with sexually explicit images a few months ago, here today I cannot believe they are still here, I would have thought moderators in the Wikipedia community would have more decency and better discernment than to have it still displayed as it is.
I'm sure most people, most of the intelligent, honest, self respecting, considerate and responsible people out there, would all agree that the user that has put these pictures along the articles, has not done so in a purely innocent manner or an entirely scientific purpose either, surely they have had a laugh about it, it a big joke to them and everyone else is just a winger, just too straight, just selfish and want it removed because they have silly personal problems about it, I think the person that has the selfish personal interests problem is the author themselves. This information is useful but should be in a better location, not on Wikipedia, you could make a great website with all your content, but for the love of children and all humanity, even straight and conservative people, please not on Wikipedia the Free Encyclopedia, we could value your information contribution but your persistence in showing images approved only by a minority is selfish and not appreciated.
I think the person behind all these sexuality articles should use a more suitable outlet for their content, Wikipedia is not the place for explicit sexual content, I think they should go and make a website elsewhere on the internet where adult users can go and access this kind of information for themselves if they need it, it simply shouldn't be provided in a place where youth should also be respected users and have safe access to Wikipedia content, these articles could lead to Wikipedia not being allowed to be used in classrooms and schools and other places by youth otherwise it could.
Children should be able to learn about sexuality, but within reasonable limits and certain moderation and discretion should and could be exercised. It is not a majority of humans that engage in such activities, and it shouldn't be depicted and given as an impression that these kinds of sexual things are so normal and widely accepted that they can be completely publicly viewed, publicly shown and displayed. Furthermore, showing these images unnecessarily may give false impression that these kinds of things are just purely objective, that sexual acts are less than private, and desensitizes or demoralizes the personal and sacred side to human sexuality. This content is not universal and is not the norm and is not commonly accepted.
Children should have access to Wikipedia's wealth of information, I don't want my children seeing these images on Wikipedia that were put up by some irresponsible adult or pervert or both. Such content is damaging to young minds! and can do unrepairable damage their young developing phsyces and development. If people want to learn about this sort of thing they should find it elsewhere, Wikipedia should give innocent non explicit brief descriptions on these subjects if anything at all, but leave the excessively detailed descriptions and the pornographic adult only content out of it!
To the user that has put images to these sexuality articles; "Please remove all the images" To the Wikipedia community; "Please do what you can to help remove this adult only content" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.174.47.195 ( talk) 09:44, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Heres some evidence of the harmful effects of such content on young minds: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/real-healing/201208/overexposed-and-under-prepared-the-effects-early-exposure-sexual-content , and, http://www.news.com.au/world/lancashire-boy-13-raped-sister-8-after-watching-porn-on-xbox/story-fndir2ev-1226819517939 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.174.47.195 ( talk) 21:57, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
The legal section lacks any info on U.S. obscenity law as regarding fisting depictions in porn films. For many decades, since the Supreme Court handed down the Miller decision, California and other states routinely prosecuted or threatened prosecution for depictions of fisting (anal or vaginal). As a result, most producers of porn avoided depictions of fisting during that time. In 1999, Seymore Butts (real name: Adam Glasser), the famous porn producer/director/star, made a porn video known as "Tampa Tushy Fest part 1", which featured vaginal fisting. Then Deputy L.A. city attorney Deborah Sanchezdecided to file charges of obscenity against him over the video due to inclusion of fisting in it. She argued that the video was filled with scenes that depict sexuality in "a patently offensive way." Mr. Glasser decided fight the charge in court, as he felt he could successfully demonstrate to the jury that fisting could not in this day and age be viewed patently offensive. Part of his argument rested on that fact that in 1999 fisting was common enough in gay and lesbian sex and was also growing in popularity among heterosexual couples. He was going to show several books legally sold in bookstore at the time that explained how to practice vaginal and anal fisting to demonstrate that it was no longer just some rare deviant practice anymore. Shortly before the trial was set to begin, he agreed to a settlement with the Los Angeles city attorney's office. In the teerms of the settlement he plead guilty to a public nuisance charge and paid a $1000 fine to a victims restitution fund. He also agreed to offer an edited version of "Tampa Tushy Fest, Part 1" for California buyers but was also free to sell the unedited version in California without fear of future obscenity charges." (source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/porn/prosecuting/casetowatch.html ) Since his victory, a number of other porn films with fisting in them have been produced by various porn studios and fisting porn has also become easy to access on the internet. The above link provides a good starting point for adding info about fisting related obscenity prosecutions in the U.S. but the article should include info on fisting in porn's legal status prior to 1999 and afterwards in the U.S. If I come across any further info then maybe I will write up a short paragraph or two on the legal situation of fisting in porn in the U.S. but I'm putting this out there for other to tackle too if they wish. -- Cab88 ( talk) 21:31, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
There doesn't appear to be anything in the referenced sources indicating that fisting was invented by gay men, with gay women following their example. The source talks mainly about the genesis of the 'fisting scene' at the Catacombs, and how it was initially only open to gay men. It does not state or imply that fisting was invented at that time, only that it was 'popularized' and a subculture formed around it.
I can find at least one source that states "...fisting has been practiced in China and India for thousands of years." (The Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Women, Taormino, T. ISBN 9781573440288 https://books.google.com/books?id=wE4gAQAAIAAJ )
Regardless of the claim that fisting is "...perhaps the only sexual practice invented this century." (emphasis mine) it seems absurd to make claims about the "invention" of any sexual practice that isn't dependent on modern technology. It would be more accurate to describe the history of the fisting subculture, and any earliest-known depictions or references to it. -- Fievel Fisticuffs ( talk) 06:43, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
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The article says the photo of fisting on a man is illegal in the UK. So why do I have access to that?-- 81.107.174.60 ( talk) 19:49, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Your assumption is wrong. When someone visit an encyclopaedia is generally expecting to find information, not pornography. There are other web sites more suitable for viewing this material. And I'm not talking about a drawing but homosexual pornography at the end of the page. If you wish to see these images then go to a porn web site. It's you who are in the wrong place, not the rest of us.-- 81.107.174.60 ( talk) 14:25, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
I don't see porn photos or videos in the article about Pornography. According to you, why are they not relevant there? What is relevant or not depends on the purpose you seek. If your intent is to explain what fisting is, a drawing would be enough. An image of a gay male being sodomized in a session of sadomasochism is clearly not relevant. You don't need this image for explaining what fisting is.-- Charrua85 ( talk) 20:40, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
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I there is a better quality image than File:Anal fisting being performed on a male.jpg to illustrate male anal fisting, and that is File:Self Fisting.jpg. It can also tie into including the possibility for self-fisting which is not currently covered in Techniques. Considering the current image is being partially obscured by large buttocks and is a poorer quality image, what are your thoughts on replacing it? Pabsoluterince ( talk) 03:16, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
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Isn't it time we removed filth like this from the internet? Also a fictional act such as the one described herein is hardly "encyclopedic". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.111.63.147 ( talk) 11:25, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
You forgot to point out the Obvious. This person did a search to wind up on this page in the first place and apparently is interested in learning more about this "filth". I do have an issue with the page though, there is no section on the safeness of the act. Is there any risk of anal muscle injury to the fistee? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.116.149.212 ( talk) 18:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
I am glad people can come to wiki to learn about these things. until today i didn't even know fisting existed. i would never do it though 65.183.212.114 ( talk) 01:10, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
The real-life images on this page are too obscene for Wikipedia. They should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.10.61.128 ( talk) 13:38, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
The request above for a section on the risks of this act is very reasonable. I shall initiate such a section. Warren Zhang ( talk) 03:20, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Point under risks referenced by 8 is only valid if injury occurs. Air in itself is never a problem.. or tampons or normal sexual intercourse would already pose risks. The statement as made based on the reference is incorrect and unverifiable. Please adjust. Anon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.46.202.80 ( talk) 13:17, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
I deleted the first picture of Michaelangelo's Last Judgement because it is a wrong interpratation of the fresco in the church. As you can see in the original image (at the bottom on the right) that hand is not inside the uppper body.
Picture removed from article: (do not repost please) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Michelangelo_-_Punishment_of_sodomy.png
Original photo of the fresco: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lastjudgement.jpg (Hi-Res) Please see original image. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.64.82.208 ( talk) 23:07, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Know what, the original provided here does not illustrate what the article is illustrating. If a corruption is needed to illustrate it then obviously it cannot be attributed to the original source. But why does there need to be any illustartion at all? The article is illustrative enough and it doesn't require much imagination to see a hand inserted into an anus or vagina. Using no censorship to include a vulgar image isn't reason enough if it doesn't add to the article's usefulness. Even if these conditions are satisfied there is still an issue with copyright. Public domain only applies to the original work so if someone makes substantial changes to a derivitive it may be regarded as their own ip without affecting the status of the original. Biofase flame| stalk 22:35, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
-- Dak ( talk) 18:30, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
re 1: as i said, if you check the wp article on the picture, you'll find that it depicts the act of sodomy, not the punishment for sodomy (seriously, the punishment for sodomy isn't going to be more sodomy, is it?). it's fair to assume, then, that the act depicts consensual sodomy, tho, according to you (and i'd agree), "any reference to what Michelangelo intended is completely moot". It appears to be fisting. ergo, it is. claims as to consent or otherwize IN REGUARDS TO A PAINTING are somewhat irrelevent, barring it clearly being one or the other (which it isn't). it just depicts sodomy (neither clearly rape, nor clearly consensual); Michaelangelo probably intended it to be consensual, as he's depicting kinky perversions in that part of the painting (not punishments).
re2: It is not modified (other than the colour drained), tho i do agree on closer inspection that the fist is not in the anus (in either the original or the image in the article... looking closely, you can see the curled fingers in both images). however, it does look like it is attempted, mid, or pre-fisting (or possibly anal fingering), and at a glance the fingers aren't notisable so it just looks like fisting).
re4: ok, then here's my suggestion:
An alternative, as the image is in the public domain, is that one of us could modify it to appear more like fisting, release our modifications into the public domain, declair that our derived work depicts consensual sodomy, upload it as 'sodomy (modified from public-domain work by Michaelangelo)', and use that for the article?
-- Dak ( talk) 01:29, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
If the Sixtine Chapel has an image of a guy putting a fist up some other's guy ass, then I would expect that some source would comment on this fact. Either a sexuality book explaining the sexual ideas at that time or the history of fisting, or a religious book explaining what sort of punishment it was and why it was depicted like that, or even a popular culture book listing curiosities in art. The pictures on the chapel have been very studied, so there should be some source talking about that one. Then, we can use their assesment of the significance of the picture. Without any source, and with so many doubts about the actual action, I wouldn't use that picture at all. -- Enric Naval ( talk) 21:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
We will never know if the apparent act is intended. Mich was a practicing gay and is well know for leaving various symbolic messages in his works. 1. The original position of David has his finger pointing in an accusative way at Rome. 2. Creation of Adam shows an outline of the human brain dissected. The message is that God is entirely in mans' mind. 3. Fisting. Perhaps a private joke. One thing completely absent from Mich's work are Cherubs. We can be sure that he wasn't a child molester. 220.244.84.234 ( talk) 03:03, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Why is there a Citation Needed tag for: "Fisting has been performed on (and by) both men and women; gay, straight and otherwise."
This is pretty much common knowledge. Ever hear of the Romans? pjh3000 ( talk) 20:37, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
Some fistees also enjoy deeper penetration, in which the hand or hands are inserted into the sigmoid colon and large intestine, with the most experienced sometimes being able to accommodate the arm or arms all the way up to the shoulder. This statement is probably the most ridiculously dubious I have ever come across in this type of article. We're talking about human beings here, not ruminants. There is no fricking way you can insert a human arm up to the shoulder up another human's arsehole (without killing them). I tend to think that this was put in as a hoax - can anyone actually cite this, or it's going to get the chop! — JulesVerne ( talk) 16:48, 07 December 2009 (GMT)
In a sigmoidoscopy, the rigid “sigmoidoscope is advanced, usually as far up as the sigmoid colon or descending colon.” (“ Sigmoidoscopy,” Encylopedia. MedlinePlus. (Retrieved 2009-12-09.))
Also, remember that the entire large intestine — from the cecum to the anus — is flexible; it is not rigid. The poor medical intern tasked with performing a digital disimpaction may, on rare occasion — in an examination under anesthetic — have to insert himself/herself as far as the sigmoid colon. — Spike Toronto 20:05, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm curious as to why a couple of entries - fisting and creampie(sex act) - have a request for photographs associated to the article in the discussion tab.
Yet from what I saw in the creampie - there is an ongoing battle/argument over having photographs. When photos are uploaded they're deleted.
Why have this "request for photographs" on entries about explicit sexual acts?
Rayngrant ( talk) 22:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)Ray Grant
In Italian culture, the current third picture is the "fig" sign, and considered incredibly obscene. It is referenced in Dante's Inferno. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.156.202 ( talk) 02:07, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
The drama that ensues with depictions of extreme sex acts is usually well over the top, but most come from the batshit insane OMGCENSOREVERYTHING angle. I, whilst not being pro-censorship in any way, am against depictions of hardcore acts that would generally recieve an above R18+ rating purely because I know for a fact that thousands of schools across the world will be spoiled sports, and god knows when the nazi.. uh, I mean government in Australia brings in the filter we can kiss Wikipedia goodbye. If the photo even ADDS to understanding beyond what the text does, even just BARELY, I'd totally err on the side of inclusion. But in this instance, the article is very well written and descriptive and the photograph in question adds absolutely nothing beyond controversy and dramu generation by trolls. Ironically it seems to be trolls trolling trolls, as trolls want the porn, and trolls baww about wanting it down. 124.179.19.254 ( talk) 11:33, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
What exactly does this have to do with WikiProject LGBT studies? Associating fisting specifically with that is kind of offensive. Anal sex I can see, but fisting? That seems to cross a line. Unless there are studies to back up the idea that gays and/or lesbians are the predominant practitioners, it's a blind and somewhat prejudiced assumption. -- Mattbrown04 ( talk) 02:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
are editors using a still-animated pic for illustrations of this sexual act? Is it that bad of a taboo that it cannot be shown graphically? I thought Wikipedia was uncensored. LaRouxEMP ( talk) 12:41, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
This article contains
instructions, advice, or how-to content. |
Needs work. TyrS chatties 02:08, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Currently the focus is almost exclusively on women doing vaginal fisting, with an extensive list of porn actresses and no mention or illustration of men self-fisting or getting fisted. Please do not remove the Unbalanced box without discussion here. TyrS chatties 02:22, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
{{
Unbalanced}}
is used in those instances where one suspects an intention motivated by mala fides. I do not believe that there was ever such an animus with this wikiarticle. Rather, I think that no one has yet contributed the male-as-fistee viewpoint/perspective. Nor has anyone added such gay porn fisting luminaries as the glorious
Ashley Ryder. But, that doesn’t mean that their absence from the article is a result of
undue weight having been intentionally given to the female-as-fistee viewpoint/perspective at the expense of the male-as-fistee viewpoint/perspective. Rather, it is just that the article currently lacks sufficient breadth. Some form of
section expansion template might have been more appropriate.I do agree, TyrS, that you have hit upon something that this article lacks and that is the male-as-fistee perspective. If you have a yen to see it added, why not write up such a section? It would certainly lend greater breadth to the article. (But, can you imagine the edit war that would ensue if there were any such images added to article?! Sheesh!) — Spike Toronto 06:36, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Please add Aria Giovanni to section "People noted to have engaged in fisting". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.112.249.25 ( talk) 07:57, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
I'm doing a (non-admin) closure of this because the outcome is very clear from Wikipedia policy, despite emotions running high for some parties on both sides of the debate (and because I had time to kill, not wanting to be out and about on a night full of drunk drivers). I'm closing it a couple of days early, because the discussion entirely died out over a week ago, and even if it had not, the only way the outcome would be different is if policy radically changed suddenly and radically. Furthermore, an alternative image was proposed, making the debate borderline moot, and pointlessly delaying likely replacement of the image that no one really likes.
While the arguments for just removing the image are not generally unreasoned, and claims that removal=homophobia are unreasonable, the arguments in favor of inclusion are stronger and clearly reflect Wikipedia norms much better. I will go over every identifiable argument and explain how it factored. That the arguments to remove the image are all over the map, sometimes contradictory, and over the course of the debate sometimes abandoned is all highly significant. I've detailed all the clearly articulated debate points, even the trivial ones, and their applicability because I think this RFC may have good value as something to look back on for this article's progress and that of others when image flamewars pop up. PS: This closure is modeled on that of Talk:Gokkun#RFC on Image Inclusion, by Magog the Ogre ( talk · contribs). Reading it, BTW, is actually of strong relevance to further discussion about using artistic interpretations instead of photographs especially in articles about sexuality topics.
Arguments for removing the image
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Happy new year! —
SMcCandish
Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ
Contribs.
08:03, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Full debate
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Is it just me, or does it seem totally illogical that a photograph depicting some dude getting fisted is neccessary to illustrate this article when we have far better material available that won't give schools across the world an excuse to ban wiki from classrooms? Being a horndog I have ALWAYS supported the uncensored wiki, but even by Australian ACMA ratings systems if / when the filter comes in here, that image is that excessive that it'd definitely get Wiki b& for all of us. Does it help convey more information than the article already does? No. Is it neccessary or essential to provide an informative element in and of itself? No. Does it in any way enhance the understanding of the act beyond what the words of the article does? No. So, I submit that this image serves absolutely no purpose and would ask that it be removed. 124.179.19.254 ( talk) 11:28, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
The male image is no more objectionable than the female one, which compounds the depiction with onanism and isn't even anatomically correct. -- 2.29.162.88 ( talk · contribs) 17:04, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I have no strong opinion about the image in contention, but the other image should be removed because it is worse. It doesn't tell me anything about fisting, it just tells me what happens if you put indesign and a straight male virgin in the same room. And how long is that woman's left thigh? -- FormerIP ( talk) 01:39, 3 December 2011 (UTC) Can someone please remove this disgusting and offensive image? How could anyone possibly think this is appropriate. Children use this site for gods sake!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.154.17.166 ( talk) 01::42, 3 December 2011 (UTC) There is also a page on suicide, but you don't see a photo of someone with their head blown off with a shotgun, or a baby after it was aborted on the abortion page. Fisting is also just as repulsive and really is not significant to warrant this. What kind of sick deviant would let someone do this? Disturbing — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.154.17.166 ( talk) 03:01, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Deliberate breakI started the discussion regarding this image and I would like to clarify a few things so we can speedily reach consensus.
Thanks -- Camilo Sanchez ( talk) 06:19, 21 December 2011 (UTC) Edit request from barts1a
Not done. When you ignore the "I don't like it", the accusations of homophobia, ad hominems ("should be ashamed of themselves") and the "per aboves" and look at the actual comments, there is no clear consensus that the image should be removed. There is discussion about whether it is a good illustration for the topic or not (which is what the discussion should be about), but there is no consensus either way yet. As Wikipedia is not censored, there is no more reason to remove this image pending consensus than any other image. Thryduulf ( talk) 00:43, 4 December 2011 (UTC) Reactivating request. It seems to me that consensus of the RfC is to remove the image. Barts1a | Talk to me | Yell at me 04:32, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
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Separate from the above discussion, does the image of the gloves in the gallery really add to the article? The caption is overly long, and should probably be moved to the body of the article - if you need that much text to show relevance to the article either it's not relevant or the article is missing something. If a picture is necessary, it's a low quality image and doesn't explain why a fisting glove is any different to a normal PVC glove (is it?) - if it isn't different, would something like File:PVC-Handschuh.jpg be better? Thryduulf ( talk) 00:56, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
OR
The so-called "Gallery of Fisting Hand Positions" is pure original research. No, seriously — it shouldn't be there. Carrite ( talk) 02:09, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Per these two (now combined sections), I've removed the gallery as it didn't add to the article (galleries are discouraged anyway, see WP:GALLERIES) and wasn't sourced. I have though moved the first image (the "duck beak" hand position) to an inline image as it does illustrate the first part of the "Techniques" section and so can't be classed as OR. That isn't to say that we should (or equally that we should not have it), but it needs to be discussed separately. Thryduulf ( talk) 11:08, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Given that masturbation has been divided with two sub-headings under "male" and "female" techniques, I propose one of the following splits might appease some of the "social discomforts" people may have with regards this article being all squashed into a few poorly organised paragraphs:
Given that vaginal is "purely" sexual, being a sexual organ, and anal is "speculatively" sexual, being part of the digestive tract, and probably not advised by many doctors due to the greater risk of rectal damage, it would be more responsible to divide the "forms" of fisting, and under those sub-headings further discuss pleasures/risks, and also allows for homosexual male practices to be better placed, rather than mixed in with female techniques that are "the norm" to most people, even those without homophobic sentiments, anal contact is "taboo", "unsafe" or just "yuck". Bear in mind homosexuality is a "minority group" and it is unreasonable to place a stronger gay-POV over heterosexual practices, when a more neutral method can be and should be applied to remove any and all form of discrimination, to gay and straight people. Though wiki does not censor, and does not make attempts to separate hetero/homosexual ideas too distinctly, we should bear in mind that anal intercourse, carries a stigma in many cultures and religions (sometimes leading to noose), so splitting means those people are not forced to read "all or nothing", and give them means to complain, or edit war – which is always a good aim of any "controversial" topic, keep the issues separate to minimise damage when trouble stirs. Also the higher degree of infection from anal "exploration" should be separately identified.
As an encyclopedia the article should not only be discussing the practices in terms of what it looks like, as seems to be the clear agenda from certain groups forcing the picture issue and arguing the toss. If people want to know what it feels like to have a hand shoved up their arse, they need only try it, no photo on Earth is going to provide that answer! The article needs to be more objective, and less porn-like. What is important is that someone develop a more neutral article, or two if necessary, from what exists, and make three or four sets of "fisting" context rather than one:
And for those who disagree: If there's going to be a major LGBT WikiProject to focus on LGBT issues, then where's the focus if vaginal/anal are all crammed into one paragraph, causing more disagreements than are absolutely necessary?
If you still disagree.. you know where you can stick it!
Ma®©usBritish [ Chat • RFF 11:54, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Why don't we just remove filth like this from the internet?! It's disgusting! --- 68.103.24.102 ( talk) 04:11, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Which version of the article image set is better The current version as of 03:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC+8) or the version as of 18:00, 14 February 2012 (UTC+8)? Barts1a / What did I actually do right? / What did I do wrong this time? 00:01, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Why is it that the image of a woman engaging in fisting is an illustration, and the male image is a photo? Could this be a double standard? Should we introduce an illustration to replace the photo for the male, if only for the sake of consistency, and to eliminate any double standards? Cr@$h3d@t@ t@1k t0 m3 09:27, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
Someone should mention shoulder-deep anal fisting and all the info about it. 72.82.180.111 ( talk) 23:28, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
There should be a section in the article about the history of anal and vaginal fisting.
Noting that File:Sissy in schoolgirl uniform gets anally fisted.jpg, which was removed by Largefoot ( talk · contribs) (seen here, where the removal was reverted) and by Paulinho28 (seen here, where the removal was reverted) is up for deletion here by one of the editors who watches the Fisting article. So that's three editors clearly objecting to the image, and two clearly wanting it to remain. I'm indifferent on the matter; well, mostly indifferent. By that, I mean that, as was noted on Largefoot's user talk page, it's not a good image for the subject by displaying the man in a schoolgirl uniform, but it's the only image of anal fisting freely available to Wikipedia. It should be cropped to only show the anal fisting, and the title of the image should then be changed to better reflect the imagery; I'm sure that the title of the image (the inclusion of the term sissy) is one of the things that has bugged some editors about the image, though I am not offended by the title. Like the aforementioned linked deletion discussion shows, the image was also up for deletion earlier this year. Flyer22 ( talk) 14:59, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
Hello, I came across this article via Gawker.com. I found the photos in the article to be totally unsuitable for younger audiences, X-Rated images, and they are basically pornography! Therefore the photos should be removed without questioning and are absolutely not appropriate to be on Wikipedia which is a public website! Polloloco51 ( talk) 03:24, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Update: I went ahead and removed the two images. Wikipedia is a public educational website accessed by all ages, and isn't a pornographic website. Polloloco51 ( talk) 03:48, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia is accessed by people of all ages. Removing the clearly pornographic images is not censorship but rather keeping Wikipedia a healthy educational encyclopedic website. People from 8 years old to 100 can access this article. Unless a warning can be placed prior to someone accessing the article and the pornographic images, the images should be pulled until then. Polloloco51 ( talk) 04:01, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
It is not the matter of liking the images or not, that is irrelevant! The images are pornographic, X-rated and are not appropriate for an encyclopedic website that is accessed by all ages! Polloloco51 ( talk) 04:04, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
The images add nothing to learning about "fisting". Again, it is not the matter of liking the images or not, that's totally irrelevant period. The images are what they are. They are pornographic, X-Rated, and extremely inappropriate for younger audiences who may especially accidentally come across the article accidentally. The best way to visually demonstrate "fisting", is perhaps illustrated pictures rather than photos taken by god knows who, during sexual intercourse. Polloloco51 ( talk) 04:46, 13 November 2014 (UTC)
"Controversial images should follow the principle of 'least astonishment': we should choose images that respect the conventional expectations of readers for a given topic as much as is possible without sacrificing the quality of the article. For example, editors selecting images for articles like Human body have thousands of images of naked bodies and body parts available to them, but they normally choose images that portray the human body in an unemotional, non-sexual standard anatomical position over more sexual images due to greater relevance to the subject―the more sexual one is not given special favor simply because it is more offensive." I don't see how this article needs the two photographs. I can't see them as anything other than their submitters getting their jollies by exhibitionism rather than genuine contribution to the subject matter. The illustration is the "least astonishing"; the two photos do nothing to enhance understanding of the subject matter but only perhaps gratify whoever submitted them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.33.156.163 ( talk) 00:31, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
Firstly, I appeal to the human behind posting the articles and images not the author hiding behind the technical policies and codes on this matter, I'm sure this has been debated and discussed and could be done elsewhere but im doing what i can here and now where i can. This is important. It is not to anyone's significant disadvantage to resolve this issue, but to a majorities advantage, and I ask that you take a closer look at your moral compasses and regardless of what is allowed on Wikipedia by their standards or not, I ask that you would "just do what is right" and don't be a rock in everyone's shoe. Just because you technically can do something it does not mean its right or that you should do it. Again, this is important, perhaps more than you can entirely realize. With far reaching negative effects and consequences.
Secondly, Images for sexuality information on Wikipedia is not necessary. A description is enough. Cartoon pictures do not make it any less inappropriate. Wikipedia is not a How-to manual it is an Encyclopedia. The indecent pictures to these pages could not possibly have been put up by a serious responsible minded researcher and author. Along side information content, Wikipedia should stand for equal access opportunity and consideration for the whole community of users.
Minors could access this and or be exposed to it by other minors and it would constitute carnal knowledge. Whether its allowed or not, you are the one responsible for allowing that to be possible to happen. Think of the children. Everyone should be considered, the Wikipedia encyclopedia should be created for our children, everyone's children and all the future generations of children for educational purposes first and foremost for the education of our young learning minds, who do not need to be exposed to this material in graphical form.
I cant believe I have to be even trying to fight against this. Whoever put these sexuality pages up is inconsiderate for starters but to put up the images and to defend themselves for it is really inconsiderate, irresponsible and inappropriate. I first cam across these sexuality articles with sexually explicit images a few months ago, here today I cannot believe they are still here, I would have thought moderators in the Wikipedia community would have more decency and better discernment than to have it still displayed as it is.
I'm sure most people, most of the intelligent, honest, self respecting, considerate and responsible people out there, would all agree that the user that has put these pictures along the articles, has not done so in a purely innocent manner or an entirely scientific purpose either, surely they have had a laugh about it, it a big joke to them and everyone else is just a winger, just too straight, just selfish and want it removed because they have silly personal problems about it, I think the person that has the selfish personal interests problem is the author themselves. This information is useful but should be in a better location, not on Wikipedia, you could make a great website with all your content, but for the love of children and all humanity, even straight and conservative people, please not on Wikipedia the Free Encyclopedia, we could value your information contribution but your persistence in showing images approved only by a minority is selfish and not appreciated.
I think the person behind all these sexuality articles should use a more suitable outlet for their content, Wikipedia is not the place for explicit sexual content, I think they should go and make a website elsewhere on the internet where adult users can go and access this kind of information for themselves if they need it, it simply shouldn't be provided in a place where youth should also be respected users and have safe access to Wikipedia content, these articles could lead to Wikipedia not being allowed to be used in classrooms and schools and other places by youth otherwise it could.
Children should be able to learn about sexuality, but within reasonable limits and certain moderation and discretion should and could be exercised. It is not a majority of humans that engage in such activities, and it shouldn't be depicted and given as an impression that these kinds of sexual things are so normal and widely accepted that they can be completely publicly viewed, publicly shown and displayed. Furthermore, showing these images unnecessarily may give false impression that these kinds of things are just purely objective, that sexual acts are less than private, and desensitizes or demoralizes the personal and sacred side to human sexuality. This content is not universal and is not the norm and is not commonly accepted.
Children should have access to Wikipedia's wealth of information, I don't want my children seeing these images on Wikipedia that were put up by some irresponsible adult or pervert or both. Such content is damaging to young minds! and can do unrepairable damage their young developing phsyces and development. If people want to learn about this sort of thing they should find it elsewhere, Wikipedia should give innocent non explicit brief descriptions on these subjects if anything at all, but leave the excessively detailed descriptions and the pornographic adult only content out of it!
To the user that has put images to these sexuality articles; "Please remove all the images" To the Wikipedia community; "Please do what you can to help remove this adult only content" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.174.47.195 ( talk) 09:44, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Heres some evidence of the harmful effects of such content on young minds: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/real-healing/201208/overexposed-and-under-prepared-the-effects-early-exposure-sexual-content , and, http://www.news.com.au/world/lancashire-boy-13-raped-sister-8-after-watching-porn-on-xbox/story-fndir2ev-1226819517939 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.174.47.195 ( talk) 21:57, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
The legal section lacks any info on U.S. obscenity law as regarding fisting depictions in porn films. For many decades, since the Supreme Court handed down the Miller decision, California and other states routinely prosecuted or threatened prosecution for depictions of fisting (anal or vaginal). As a result, most producers of porn avoided depictions of fisting during that time. In 1999, Seymore Butts (real name: Adam Glasser), the famous porn producer/director/star, made a porn video known as "Tampa Tushy Fest part 1", which featured vaginal fisting. Then Deputy L.A. city attorney Deborah Sanchezdecided to file charges of obscenity against him over the video due to inclusion of fisting in it. She argued that the video was filled with scenes that depict sexuality in "a patently offensive way." Mr. Glasser decided fight the charge in court, as he felt he could successfully demonstrate to the jury that fisting could not in this day and age be viewed patently offensive. Part of his argument rested on that fact that in 1999 fisting was common enough in gay and lesbian sex and was also growing in popularity among heterosexual couples. He was going to show several books legally sold in bookstore at the time that explained how to practice vaginal and anal fisting to demonstrate that it was no longer just some rare deviant practice anymore. Shortly before the trial was set to begin, he agreed to a settlement with the Los Angeles city attorney's office. In the teerms of the settlement he plead guilty to a public nuisance charge and paid a $1000 fine to a victims restitution fund. He also agreed to offer an edited version of "Tampa Tushy Fest, Part 1" for California buyers but was also free to sell the unedited version in California without fear of future obscenity charges." (source: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/porn/prosecuting/casetowatch.html ) Since his victory, a number of other porn films with fisting in them have been produced by various porn studios and fisting porn has also become easy to access on the internet. The above link provides a good starting point for adding info about fisting related obscenity prosecutions in the U.S. but the article should include info on fisting in porn's legal status prior to 1999 and afterwards in the U.S. If I come across any further info then maybe I will write up a short paragraph or two on the legal situation of fisting in porn in the U.S. but I'm putting this out there for other to tackle too if they wish. -- Cab88 ( talk) 21:31, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
There doesn't appear to be anything in the referenced sources indicating that fisting was invented by gay men, with gay women following their example. The source talks mainly about the genesis of the 'fisting scene' at the Catacombs, and how it was initially only open to gay men. It does not state or imply that fisting was invented at that time, only that it was 'popularized' and a subculture formed around it.
I can find at least one source that states "...fisting has been practiced in China and India for thousands of years." (The Ultimate Guide to Anal Sex for Women, Taormino, T. ISBN 9781573440288 https://books.google.com/books?id=wE4gAQAAIAAJ )
Regardless of the claim that fisting is "...perhaps the only sexual practice invented this century." (emphasis mine) it seems absurd to make claims about the "invention" of any sexual practice that isn't dependent on modern technology. It would be more accurate to describe the history of the fisting subculture, and any earliest-known depictions or references to it. -- Fievel Fisticuffs ( talk) 06:43, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
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The article says the photo of fisting on a man is illegal in the UK. So why do I have access to that?-- 81.107.174.60 ( talk) 19:49, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Your assumption is wrong. When someone visit an encyclopaedia is generally expecting to find information, not pornography. There are other web sites more suitable for viewing this material. And I'm not talking about a drawing but homosexual pornography at the end of the page. If you wish to see these images then go to a porn web site. It's you who are in the wrong place, not the rest of us.-- 81.107.174.60 ( talk) 14:25, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
I don't see porn photos or videos in the article about Pornography. According to you, why are they not relevant there? What is relevant or not depends on the purpose you seek. If your intent is to explain what fisting is, a drawing would be enough. An image of a gay male being sodomized in a session of sadomasochism is clearly not relevant. You don't need this image for explaining what fisting is.-- Charrua85 ( talk) 20:40, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
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I there is a better quality image than File:Anal fisting being performed on a male.jpg to illustrate male anal fisting, and that is File:Self Fisting.jpg. It can also tie into including the possibility for self-fisting which is not currently covered in Techniques. Considering the current image is being partially obscured by large buttocks and is a poorer quality image, what are your thoughts on replacing it? Pabsoluterince ( talk) 03:16, 5 October 2023 (UTC)