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This article is mainly the actual law surrounding firearms licencing in Ireland rather than firearms politics (which in Ireland is mainly internecine politics between the sporting bodies who govern different shooting sports; there isn't much in the way of actual government politics here). Is the page (or the category) in need of a renaming? -- MarkDennehy ( talk) 18:05, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
On the last edit to the page, I've reverted it for two reasons - one, while most of the firearms in use by the drug gangs at the time were class A firearms in the EU and so not licencable, there were large numbers of handguns smuggled in along with the class A firearms (one single seizure at the time found more handguns in a single drugs shipment than were licenced in the entire country at that time), so you can't say it was 99.99% of the firearms; and two, it was asked several times in the Dail if there was any proof that licenced firearms had been stolen and later used in crime (references are given in the wiki page) and the answer was always that none was available, so you can't say that either. MarkDennehy ( talk) 13:01, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
There is ample information here, but it needs rewritten. We need a simple overview in the header, and move what is presently the header into a separate "legislative history" section. -- 81.145.165.2 ( talk) 10:37, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Done. I've also updated the information since I was the one who wrote it in the original page which was used to create this one. -- MarkDennehy ( talk) 18:01, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
We can probably swipe some of the overview for the lead (the lead we had really needed to be in the history section). Citations for the legislative stuff will be tricky because the majority of the time the citation isn't one source; it would be something along the lines of "The 1925 Act, section X, as amended by the 1964 Act, section Y and the 2006 Act, section Z and none of those individual components would be a complete citation (that, incidentally, is exactly the problem with the legislation, as mentioned in the article). I'll add in more, but I'm not sure how to handle the legislative ones. The boards.ie links are all citing answers to parlimentary questions; I can find the originals on oireachtasdebates.ie so they can be changed out for those, but it'll take a little searching. Thanks for the wd. -- MarkDennehy ( talk) 21:21, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
![]() | It was proposed in this section that
Firearms policy in the Republic of Ireland be
renamed and moved to
Firearms legislation in Ireland.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
The result of the move request was: MOVED MarkDennehy ( talk) 23:18, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Gun politics in Ireland → Firearms legislation in Ireland – As discussed in this page's talk page, the title is inappropriate. This article is on the existing firearms legislation in Ireland; and firearms owners in Ireland work with the Department of Justice who draft the laws and the Gardai who enforce them, through the mechanism of the firearms consultation panel. NRA-style confrontational politics on the scale seen in the US is just not a done thing here, it's not part of the culture. MarkDennehy ( talk) 21:59, 2 October 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. Natg 19 ( talk) 19:50, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
The name of this page, or the lede, or something, should make it clear that the laws, policies and politics regarding this issue are confined to the border of the Republic of Ireland specifically, and do not cover the whole of the island. I will change the lede to ensure the reader knows this article concerns a specific jurisdiction. -- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 23:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't particularly object to the change as carried out, but it is still unnecessary - see the very first section in this talk page: "Gun legislation in the Republic of Ireland would be incorrect because the name of the state is officially Ireland even though the RoI form is seen in everyday usage". MarkDennehy ( talk) 03:07, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
-- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 16:35, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I have reverted the page, but removed the change to the name of the state, as Mark has objected to it. I await your response, Mark. And hopefully some good advice and objective discussion as to how to proceed. -- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 20:17, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I have already addressed this issue in the section above. I am reverting Ww2censor's revert (again), and I've supplied a source which describes the differences in spelling with the verb "to license" and the noun "a licence" in English. I have attempted to change the article from non-existant word usage (licencing, licenced) to the spelling which is correctly used in the British Isles (licence, license, licensing, licensed). I have NOT changed this article to the US/Webster variant of English. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that I did not change the spelling of the noun licence.
Also a note to Ww2censor (again): please do not revert edits wholesale. If you have a specific issue you think should be addressed, then revert ONLY that issue. Leave other edits intact.
Here is source information on how to spell words like licence, license, advice, advise and practice, practise in English with the text and a link:
Is it license or licence?
There is always the difficulty of recognising American English spellings and British English spellings with words like these.
Whether we like it or not, much of our language is now heavily influenced by American English spellings. We use both forms in British English – one is a verb (doing word) and the other a noun (thing). License
This is the verb ‘to license’. Examples:
I license this pub. You are licensed to run this pub. The officer licenses the taxis here.
Licence
This is the noun ‘a licence’. Examples:
I have a driving licence. She wants to buy a licence for her car.
See also: Is it practise or practice?
Certain sets of words follow group rules of English grammar. Many rules of grammar are quite mathematical, with groups of words falling into building-blocks which all act the same way.
For example, the spelling rules are the same for ‘practice’, ‘licence’ and ‘advice’: the noun has a ‘c’, while the verb has an ‘s’.
One way of remembering this is that the word ‘noun’ comes before the word ‘verb’ in the dictionary; likewise ‘c’ comes before ‘s’, so the nouns are ‘practice/licence/advice’ and the verbs are ‘practise/license/advise’.
In fact, the confusion arises with ‘practice’ and ‘licence’ mainly because they sound the same with the ‘c’ or the ‘s’. However, with ‘advice’ and ‘advise’, there is a shift in sound, so there is no confusion at all. We can use this to our advantage: another way of knowing which to use is to replace the ‘practice’ or ‘licence’ word you want with ‘advice’ or ‘advise’ – this will tell you whether you need the ‘c’ or the ‘s’ spelling.
So, in the following phrase, let’s say you are unsure which to write:
I do not like this ‘practise/practice’.
Replace the word you want with ‘advice’ or ‘advise’.
I do not like this ‘advice’.
So – you will need:
I do not like this ‘practice’.
http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammar-tip/is-it-license-or-licence/
I will revert this back to correct spelling relevant to the region, once again. Please do not revert again without discussing first here. --
98.122.20.56 (
talk)
19:23, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
-- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 18:49, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Folks, just for the record, it is technically neither licence nor license nor any other variant of spelling; we have firearms certificates, not firearms licences (see section 2(1) of the firearms act [1]). "Licence" (or "license") get used here as colloquialisms only. MarkDennehy ( talk) 11:37, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Folks, you may or may not know this, but this page is one of the main sources of information on firearms legislation in Ireland. Editing large swathes of it and dropping references willy-nilly is a very bad idea. Please at least post here before you do that, large amounts of people's time went into making this page as accurate as possible, it's wasteful to just change it without talking about the changes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkDennehy ( talk • contribs) 17:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Unofficial 3O: I agree with all of Second Quantization's edits to date, and also with the placing of the "manual" tag at the top of the page. Quite simply, the article as it stands is unencyclopaedic. Scolaire ( talk) 13:04, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
I've posted for a rename discussion here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ireland_Collaboration#Rename_Gun_politics_in_Ireland_to_Gun_legislation_in_Ireland
As a note, there have been some changes in recent weeks to the legislation governing firearms in Ireland; some changes to the page will be needed [1] (excuse the informal citation, this isn't the main page...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkDennehy ( talk • contribs) 12:21, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Is there any relationship between Mark Dennehy the "firearms expert" who wrote that and MarkDennehy the editor? If so, it might not have been any harm to mention the fact in previous discussions (if you have, and I've missed it, I apologise). Scolaire ( talk) 13:08, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
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We seem to have ended up in the rather unsatisfactory situation that the page name and opening paragraph refers ambiguously to " Ireland," even though the scope is restricted to the Republic of Ireland. I am therefore reverting to a earlier and more appropriate name. Nick Cooper ( talk) 19:54, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Contrary to a claim in the article ( Section: 1972 Temporary Custody Order and Pistols in Irish firearms law), Dermot Ahern did not announce a ban on handguns, he announced a "crackdown" (an ambiguous term) according to the RTÉ reference cited ("Homes, pubs could be bugged under new bill"). O'Dea ( talk) 17:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to governmental regulation of firearm ownership; the social, historical and political context of such regulation; and the people and organizations associated with these issues, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article is mainly the actual law surrounding firearms licencing in Ireland rather than firearms politics (which in Ireland is mainly internecine politics between the sporting bodies who govern different shooting sports; there isn't much in the way of actual government politics here). Is the page (or the category) in need of a renaming? -- MarkDennehy ( talk) 18:05, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
On the last edit to the page, I've reverted it for two reasons - one, while most of the firearms in use by the drug gangs at the time were class A firearms in the EU and so not licencable, there were large numbers of handguns smuggled in along with the class A firearms (one single seizure at the time found more handguns in a single drugs shipment than were licenced in the entire country at that time), so you can't say it was 99.99% of the firearms; and two, it was asked several times in the Dail if there was any proof that licenced firearms had been stolen and later used in crime (references are given in the wiki page) and the answer was always that none was available, so you can't say that either. MarkDennehy ( talk) 13:01, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
There is ample information here, but it needs rewritten. We need a simple overview in the header, and move what is presently the header into a separate "legislative history" section. -- 81.145.165.2 ( talk) 10:37, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Done. I've also updated the information since I was the one who wrote it in the original page which was used to create this one. -- MarkDennehy ( talk) 18:01, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
We can probably swipe some of the overview for the lead (the lead we had really needed to be in the history section). Citations for the legislative stuff will be tricky because the majority of the time the citation isn't one source; it would be something along the lines of "The 1925 Act, section X, as amended by the 1964 Act, section Y and the 2006 Act, section Z and none of those individual components would be a complete citation (that, incidentally, is exactly the problem with the legislation, as mentioned in the article). I'll add in more, but I'm not sure how to handle the legislative ones. The boards.ie links are all citing answers to parlimentary questions; I can find the originals on oireachtasdebates.ie so they can be changed out for those, but it'll take a little searching. Thanks for the wd. -- MarkDennehy ( talk) 21:21, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
![]() | It was proposed in this section that
Firearms policy in the Republic of Ireland be
renamed and moved to
Firearms legislation in Ireland.
The discussion has been closed, and the result will be found in the closer's comment. Links:
current log •
target log |
The result of the move request was: MOVED MarkDennehy ( talk) 23:18, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Gun politics in Ireland → Firearms legislation in Ireland – As discussed in this page's talk page, the title is inappropriate. This article is on the existing firearms legislation in Ireland; and firearms owners in Ireland work with the Department of Justice who draft the laws and the Gardai who enforce them, through the mechanism of the firearms consultation panel. NRA-style confrontational politics on the scale seen in the US is just not a done thing here, it's not part of the culture. MarkDennehy ( talk) 21:59, 2 October 2015 (UTC) --Relisted. Natg 19 ( talk) 19:50, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
The name of this page, or the lede, or something, should make it clear that the laws, policies and politics regarding this issue are confined to the border of the Republic of Ireland specifically, and do not cover the whole of the island. I will change the lede to ensure the reader knows this article concerns a specific jurisdiction. -- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 23:16, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
I don't particularly object to the change as carried out, but it is still unnecessary - see the very first section in this talk page: "Gun legislation in the Republic of Ireland would be incorrect because the name of the state is officially Ireland even though the RoI form is seen in everyday usage". MarkDennehy ( talk) 03:07, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
-- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 16:35, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I have reverted the page, but removed the change to the name of the state, as Mark has objected to it. I await your response, Mark. And hopefully some good advice and objective discussion as to how to proceed. -- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 20:17, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
I have already addressed this issue in the section above. I am reverting Ww2censor's revert (again), and I've supplied a source which describes the differences in spelling with the verb "to license" and the noun "a licence" in English. I have attempted to change the article from non-existant word usage (licencing, licenced) to the spelling which is correctly used in the British Isles (licence, license, licensing, licensed). I have NOT changed this article to the US/Webster variant of English. This is clearly demonstrated by the fact that I did not change the spelling of the noun licence.
Also a note to Ww2censor (again): please do not revert edits wholesale. If you have a specific issue you think should be addressed, then revert ONLY that issue. Leave other edits intact.
Here is source information on how to spell words like licence, license, advice, advise and practice, practise in English with the text and a link:
Is it license or licence?
There is always the difficulty of recognising American English spellings and British English spellings with words like these.
Whether we like it or not, much of our language is now heavily influenced by American English spellings. We use both forms in British English – one is a verb (doing word) and the other a noun (thing). License
This is the verb ‘to license’. Examples:
I license this pub. You are licensed to run this pub. The officer licenses the taxis here.
Licence
This is the noun ‘a licence’. Examples:
I have a driving licence. She wants to buy a licence for her car.
See also: Is it practise or practice?
Certain sets of words follow group rules of English grammar. Many rules of grammar are quite mathematical, with groups of words falling into building-blocks which all act the same way.
For example, the spelling rules are the same for ‘practice’, ‘licence’ and ‘advice’: the noun has a ‘c’, while the verb has an ‘s’.
One way of remembering this is that the word ‘noun’ comes before the word ‘verb’ in the dictionary; likewise ‘c’ comes before ‘s’, so the nouns are ‘practice/licence/advice’ and the verbs are ‘practise/license/advise’.
In fact, the confusion arises with ‘practice’ and ‘licence’ mainly because they sound the same with the ‘c’ or the ‘s’. However, with ‘advice’ and ‘advise’, there is a shift in sound, so there is no confusion at all. We can use this to our advantage: another way of knowing which to use is to replace the ‘practice’ or ‘licence’ word you want with ‘advice’ or ‘advise’ – this will tell you whether you need the ‘c’ or the ‘s’ spelling.
So, in the following phrase, let’s say you are unsure which to write:
I do not like this ‘practise/practice’.
Replace the word you want with ‘advice’ or ‘advise’.
I do not like this ‘advice’.
So – you will need:
I do not like this ‘practice’.
http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammar-tip/is-it-license-or-licence/
I will revert this back to correct spelling relevant to the region, once again. Please do not revert again without discussing first here. --
98.122.20.56 (
talk)
19:23, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
-- 98.122.20.56 ( talk) 18:49, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
Folks, just for the record, it is technically neither licence nor license nor any other variant of spelling; we have firearms certificates, not firearms licences (see section 2(1) of the firearms act [1]). "Licence" (or "license") get used here as colloquialisms only. MarkDennehy ( talk) 11:37, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Folks, you may or may not know this, but this page is one of the main sources of information on firearms legislation in Ireland. Editing large swathes of it and dropping references willy-nilly is a very bad idea. Please at least post here before you do that, large amounts of people's time went into making this page as accurate as possible, it's wasteful to just change it without talking about the changes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkDennehy ( talk • contribs) 17:02, 15 October 2015 (UTC)
Unofficial 3O: I agree with all of Second Quantization's edits to date, and also with the placing of the "manual" tag at the top of the page. Quite simply, the article as it stands is unencyclopaedic. Scolaire ( talk) 13:04, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
I've posted for a rename discussion here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ireland_Collaboration#Rename_Gun_politics_in_Ireland_to_Gun_legislation_in_Ireland
As a note, there have been some changes in recent weeks to the legislation governing firearms in Ireland; some changes to the page will be needed [1] (excuse the informal citation, this isn't the main page...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkDennehy ( talk • contribs) 12:21, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Is there any relationship between Mark Dennehy the "firearms expert" who wrote that and MarkDennehy the editor? If so, it might not have been any harm to mention the fact in previous discussions (if you have, and I've missed it, I apologise). Scolaire ( talk) 13:08, 16 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Firearms legislation in Ireland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:15, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
We seem to have ended up in the rather unsatisfactory situation that the page name and opening paragraph refers ambiguously to " Ireland," even though the scope is restricted to the Republic of Ireland. I am therefore reverting to a earlier and more appropriate name. Nick Cooper ( talk) 19:54, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
Contrary to a claim in the article ( Section: 1972 Temporary Custody Order and Pistols in Irish firearms law), Dermot Ahern did not announce a ban on handguns, he announced a "crackdown" (an ambiguous term) according to the RTÉ reference cited ("Homes, pubs could be bugged under new bill"). O'Dea ( talk) 17:00, 17 April 2023 (UTC)