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Hello. I'd just like to point out that the name of this game is a play on the acronym Active Time Battle (ATB). As a result, the name on the page should have a capital "T" and not a lower case one. Regards. -- G-Zay ( talk) 19:45, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Squares stylized manner is in all caps, and you have no proof of it being a mistake. MOS allows conventional exceptions to allowing capitalization on the word "The", and this seems completely conventional. Lucia Black ( talk) 20:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
I don't think it should be capitalised, see: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Capitalization_of_.22The.22. The1337gamer ( talk) 20:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
I consider sarcasm as uncivil and first sentence was rather sarcastic question towards me. You couldve easily said "thats subjective, what makes you think this is conventional?" I think the rules should change to go more according to what sources consider "english" certain titles werent meant to be written as sentences even if they use english. MOS allows conventional exceptions example The Lord of the Rings however we dont use it for the Odyssey. There are valid reasons why an exception can be used for this article. Lucia Black ( talk)%
Same evidence. The exact same link you both provide, mention that exceptions are allowed. Lucia Black ( talk) 20:45, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
From the same source 1337 gamer provided.....i keep telling you that we ae all using the same evidence... Lucia Black ( talk) 21:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Ok im just going to say this: i provided a quote among the same link you all provided. So saying my rule doesnt exist is ridiculous as 1) the quote is within the same link 2) you repeating the exact same thing over and over but at this point why bother? The exception is clear, and its not grounded by common practice otherwise it wouldnt be an exception. 1337gamer you looking dor the odd one within the exception, so no i cant provide one doesnt necessarily mean that the option isnt there. Axem merely mentioned that it isnt compelling. Im merely defending my point, what consensus goes is upto consensus. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Prove that my interpretation is wrong or irrational. What does wikipedia imply with common usage? It cant be within wikipedia because then its not an exception at all. Thats like there is an exception to the rule that must be followed by within the same rule. So the rules cant apply to the exception of the rules. What is the exception referring to? Lucia Black ( talk) 21:54, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Also the interpretation of that exception given at WP:MOSCAPS should not be upto votecount. Rather we ask within in that same MOS about it to be clearer. Otherwise its misusing the rukes in ones favor. This shouldnt be about one vote but rather clearing up any misunderstandings on that exception in future discussions. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:58, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Sigh...i already provided the quote and its within the same link i MOSCAPS...i keep saying the same thing i dont think im actually being heard. Lucia Black ( talk) 22:16, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
The way you inrerpeet that exception sounds self contradicting. Lucia Black ( talk) 22:23, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Because the exception doesnt state specifically which the in what title. All it says that the exception is based on common usage, so it can happen to any title that insist on The even if its in the middle of the title. Lucia Black ( talk) 22:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Read the exception that goes alongside it, the exception is next to the usage of capital T in "the" specifically in the middle of the title. So it cant be referring to "the" in the beginning of the title. Lucia Black ( talk) 23:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
MOS:CT should be the ultimate authority here, because that's the one that specifically deals with titles. As such, that one has no such clause that Lucia keeps clinging to... Sergecross73 msg me 23:19, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Im still here Serge, i dont "cling" to anything. Im merely defending my point. At this point the capitalization of the in the middle of the title has no ground for either side if these links were all misinterpreted from both sides. Lucia Black ( talk) 23:26, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Are you being uncivil? Same answer to your question: Yes. The composition title suggest which letters are important according to wikipedia, but its not because of english language. The "The" is a clear exception to that as it holds significant importance. Your advantageous comments should be better suited by explaining your point rather than bluntly relying on consensus' reason. If i misinterpretted you couldbe been clear on it as 1337gamer did (ironically was also misinterpretted by him when introduced). Regardless the in this titlenis highlighted both in logo and most sources alsonuse it aswell. Lucia Black ( talk) 23:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
That's not what you originally asked. All you asked what was to counter your point. Regardless if the point is that it's the ultimate authority, then I disagree to the extent that the motives of the rule are there, so if the title trumps the rule by the very principle it follows. As the rule explains that it considers the a lesser important word in a title and usually it's right, however in the rare chance that a title intentionally capitalizes "the" in the middle of the title to show its importance for whatever reason and highlighted in sources, it can definitely be considered as an exception. Lucia Black ( talk) 02:27, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
The stylization has been used over the general guideline several times in wikipedia and its allowed. We're not talking about the fact that its colored differently, but the fact that Square Enix highlighted its importance in the title. The guideline doesnt say to avoid capitalizing "The". It just says generally non-important words such as "in, the, on, of" in titles should be lowercased, but in this case "The" is important. Lucia Black ( talk) 08:50, 8 March 2013 (UTC) All im saying is that the rules are there for general naming. Certain ones are exception, for example "be Human" intentionally makes the first word lowercase, in which normal rules dictate the first letter of the first word must be capitalized. However there been several exceptions.
For now, the logo of the game Highlights A T and B (Im assuming if we had the logo instead of the app symbol, things would even out more). So im still enclined for capital T in the as its put higher importance from what wikipedia generally claim is not important enough to be capitalized. Because the principle isnt to go by that rule at all cost, but to use the rules for everyday titles such as hypothetically "Ghost in the Shell" and etc. The rules are there simply to avoid unnecessary capitalization. But their no different from any other rules of capitalization outside of wikipedia. Feel free to disagree, i respect your opinion on my reasoning as long as its constructive. Lucia Black ( talk) 17:57, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
The guideline is a guideline. yes its there to be followed generally for all standard titles. But its clear that exceptions can be made and have been made in the past. Just because there hasnt been a previous article that fought for the capitalization of "the" in the middle of the title, that doesnt mean that in this situation its impossible to allow an exception ever. The rule is there to assume those type of words in a title are non important. Lucia Black ( talk) 17:07, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
You actually given 1. But the other 2 dont really count. Lucia Black ( talk) 18:42, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
I dont really believe you care or any one else trully cares about english language format as much as they claim when it comes to Titles because its always inconsistent, i never see the same people fight similar titles already using the stylized form than the general english language form. Its just more convenient to use english language as a reason so IDONTLIKEIT doesnt come in. Its not a dealbreaker is what im saying. But since you want to know where the exception has been done before, Live A Live article has A in midtitle capitalized when WP:MOS:CT states it shouldnt, of course that title defies english language, but at the same time, thats how the title was meant to be written. Lucia Black ( talk) 22:34, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
I changed a minor sentence solely to explain the gameplay and in app purchases more affectively, so it couldnt possibly be affecting the article's nuetrality compared to sergecross revert reasons. Lucia Black ( talk) 20:39, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
The two versions being discussed are shown here, for others who may want to participate. Sergecross73 msg me 20:49, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Exactly, you now saying the original revision affects nuetrality by your own reasoning. The article should decribe things nuetrally, and your reason for the subjective, non-nuetral version. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:03, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
negative has nothing to do with word but wording. You admitted it yourself on how "excessive" is implied in that tone. So your reasons cant possibly be right, if its about subjective implications you yourself admitted that this sentence has. So it affects nuetral point of view if described in a way that implies excessive. Im not saying it has to be my revision over yours, just not the original. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:10, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
the wording is off in the sentence. As if described by an individual rather than described by wikipedia's usual tone. It can be described better and more effectively. The original was bad wording. however your "reasoning" behind it (whch made public by edit summary) violate NPOV. I dont have to "pinpoint" if the entire sentence itself. Im assuming good faith, but good faith can often come with misguided. Again, it doesnt have to be mine, but still has to be described in a more affective way. That sentence, breaks, to much. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:25, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
yeah, i dont remotely understand what you're saying in this sentence. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:44, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Would anyone object to me nominating this for Good article status? I think it’s close. Judgesurreal777 ( talk) 16:50, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
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Reviewer: Abryn ( talk · contribs) 22:37, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Gameplay
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@ Judgesurreal777: Just in case. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 23:38, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
OK @ Abryn:. I believe I have done what you wanted. I did some rewriting and splitting of the reception section, and added a new screenshot. Let me know if I missed anything. Now the only thing left to do is I am looking to see if there were any Japanese reviews or development. Then I think it’ll be ready! Judgesurreal777 ( talk) 00:55, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
Final Fantasy All the Bravest has been listed as one of the
Video games good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: June 10, 2020. ( Reviewed version). |
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Hello. I'd just like to point out that the name of this game is a play on the acronym Active Time Battle (ATB). As a result, the name on the page should have a capital "T" and not a lower case one. Regards. -- G-Zay ( talk) 19:45, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Squares stylized manner is in all caps, and you have no proof of it being a mistake. MOS allows conventional exceptions to allowing capitalization on the word "The", and this seems completely conventional. Lucia Black ( talk) 20:00, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
I don't think it should be capitalised, see: Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Capitalization_of_.22The.22. The1337gamer ( talk) 20:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
I consider sarcasm as uncivil and first sentence was rather sarcastic question towards me. You couldve easily said "thats subjective, what makes you think this is conventional?" I think the rules should change to go more according to what sources consider "english" certain titles werent meant to be written as sentences even if they use english. MOS allows conventional exceptions example The Lord of the Rings however we dont use it for the Odyssey. There are valid reasons why an exception can be used for this article. Lucia Black ( talk)%
Same evidence. The exact same link you both provide, mention that exceptions are allowed. Lucia Black ( talk) 20:45, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
From the same source 1337 gamer provided.....i keep telling you that we ae all using the same evidence... Lucia Black ( talk) 21:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Ok im just going to say this: i provided a quote among the same link you all provided. So saying my rule doesnt exist is ridiculous as 1) the quote is within the same link 2) you repeating the exact same thing over and over but at this point why bother? The exception is clear, and its not grounded by common practice otherwise it wouldnt be an exception. 1337gamer you looking dor the odd one within the exception, so no i cant provide one doesnt necessarily mean that the option isnt there. Axem merely mentioned that it isnt compelling. Im merely defending my point, what consensus goes is upto consensus. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Prove that my interpretation is wrong or irrational. What does wikipedia imply with common usage? It cant be within wikipedia because then its not an exception at all. Thats like there is an exception to the rule that must be followed by within the same rule. So the rules cant apply to the exception of the rules. What is the exception referring to? Lucia Black ( talk) 21:54, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Also the interpretation of that exception given at WP:MOSCAPS should not be upto votecount. Rather we ask within in that same MOS about it to be clearer. Otherwise its misusing the rukes in ones favor. This shouldnt be about one vote but rather clearing up any misunderstandings on that exception in future discussions. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:58, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Sigh...i already provided the quote and its within the same link i MOSCAPS...i keep saying the same thing i dont think im actually being heard. Lucia Black ( talk) 22:16, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
The way you inrerpeet that exception sounds self contradicting. Lucia Black ( talk) 22:23, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Because the exception doesnt state specifically which the in what title. All it says that the exception is based on common usage, so it can happen to any title that insist on The even if its in the middle of the title. Lucia Black ( talk) 22:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Read the exception that goes alongside it, the exception is next to the usage of capital T in "the" specifically in the middle of the title. So it cant be referring to "the" in the beginning of the title. Lucia Black ( talk) 23:08, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
MOS:CT should be the ultimate authority here, because that's the one that specifically deals with titles. As such, that one has no such clause that Lucia keeps clinging to... Sergecross73 msg me 23:19, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Im still here Serge, i dont "cling" to anything. Im merely defending my point. At this point the capitalization of the in the middle of the title has no ground for either side if these links were all misinterpreted from both sides. Lucia Black ( talk) 23:26, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
Are you being uncivil? Same answer to your question: Yes. The composition title suggest which letters are important according to wikipedia, but its not because of english language. The "The" is a clear exception to that as it holds significant importance. Your advantageous comments should be better suited by explaining your point rather than bluntly relying on consensus' reason. If i misinterpretted you couldbe been clear on it as 1337gamer did (ironically was also misinterpretted by him when introduced). Regardless the in this titlenis highlighted both in logo and most sources alsonuse it aswell. Lucia Black ( talk) 23:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
That's not what you originally asked. All you asked what was to counter your point. Regardless if the point is that it's the ultimate authority, then I disagree to the extent that the motives of the rule are there, so if the title trumps the rule by the very principle it follows. As the rule explains that it considers the a lesser important word in a title and usually it's right, however in the rare chance that a title intentionally capitalizes "the" in the middle of the title to show its importance for whatever reason and highlighted in sources, it can definitely be considered as an exception. Lucia Black ( talk) 02:27, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
The stylization has been used over the general guideline several times in wikipedia and its allowed. We're not talking about the fact that its colored differently, but the fact that Square Enix highlighted its importance in the title. The guideline doesnt say to avoid capitalizing "The". It just says generally non-important words such as "in, the, on, of" in titles should be lowercased, but in this case "The" is important. Lucia Black ( talk) 08:50, 8 March 2013 (UTC) All im saying is that the rules are there for general naming. Certain ones are exception, for example "be Human" intentionally makes the first word lowercase, in which normal rules dictate the first letter of the first word must be capitalized. However there been several exceptions.
For now, the logo of the game Highlights A T and B (Im assuming if we had the logo instead of the app symbol, things would even out more). So im still enclined for capital T in the as its put higher importance from what wikipedia generally claim is not important enough to be capitalized. Because the principle isnt to go by that rule at all cost, but to use the rules for everyday titles such as hypothetically "Ghost in the Shell" and etc. The rules are there simply to avoid unnecessary capitalization. But their no different from any other rules of capitalization outside of wikipedia. Feel free to disagree, i respect your opinion on my reasoning as long as its constructive. Lucia Black ( talk) 17:57, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
The guideline is a guideline. yes its there to be followed generally for all standard titles. But its clear that exceptions can be made and have been made in the past. Just because there hasnt been a previous article that fought for the capitalization of "the" in the middle of the title, that doesnt mean that in this situation its impossible to allow an exception ever. The rule is there to assume those type of words in a title are non important. Lucia Black ( talk) 17:07, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
You actually given 1. But the other 2 dont really count. Lucia Black ( talk) 18:42, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
I dont really believe you care or any one else trully cares about english language format as much as they claim when it comes to Titles because its always inconsistent, i never see the same people fight similar titles already using the stylized form than the general english language form. Its just more convenient to use english language as a reason so IDONTLIKEIT doesnt come in. Its not a dealbreaker is what im saying. But since you want to know where the exception has been done before, Live A Live article has A in midtitle capitalized when WP:MOS:CT states it shouldnt, of course that title defies english language, but at the same time, thats how the title was meant to be written. Lucia Black ( talk) 22:34, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
I changed a minor sentence solely to explain the gameplay and in app purchases more affectively, so it couldnt possibly be affecting the article's nuetrality compared to sergecross revert reasons. Lucia Black ( talk) 20:39, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
The two versions being discussed are shown here, for others who may want to participate. Sergecross73 msg me 20:49, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Exactly, you now saying the original revision affects nuetrality by your own reasoning. The article should decribe things nuetrally, and your reason for the subjective, non-nuetral version. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:03, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
negative has nothing to do with word but wording. You admitted it yourself on how "excessive" is implied in that tone. So your reasons cant possibly be right, if its about subjective implications you yourself admitted that this sentence has. So it affects nuetral point of view if described in a way that implies excessive. Im not saying it has to be my revision over yours, just not the original. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:10, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
the wording is off in the sentence. As if described by an individual rather than described by wikipedia's usual tone. It can be described better and more effectively. The original was bad wording. however your "reasoning" behind it (whch made public by edit summary) violate NPOV. I dont have to "pinpoint" if the entire sentence itself. Im assuming good faith, but good faith can often come with misguided. Again, it doesnt have to be mine, but still has to be described in a more affective way. That sentence, breaks, to much. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:25, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
yeah, i dont remotely understand what you're saying in this sentence. Lucia Black ( talk) 21:44, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
Would anyone object to me nominating this for Good article status? I think it’s close. Judgesurreal777 ( talk) 16:50, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Abryn ( talk · contribs) 22:37, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
Gameplay
Development
Reception
References
Images
@ Judgesurreal777: Just in case. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 23:38, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
OK @ Abryn:. I believe I have done what you wanted. I did some rewriting and splitting of the reception section, and added a new screenshot. Let me know if I missed anything. Now the only thing left to do is I am looking to see if there were any Japanese reviews or development. Then I think it’ll be ready! Judgesurreal777 ( talk) 00:55, 7 June 2020 (UTC)