This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Do we really need a cross-reference to Archie in 2003? really -- Vicki Rosenzweig
"It is hard to filter FTP traffic using a firewall, since the data connection is made to an apparently arbitary port". Is this really true? Is it not possible to just use passive FTP?
I've put a description of active mode FTP. Will do passive mode later. - Ta bu shi da yu 00:37, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In the text it is mentioned that the port on the server is 21, this is the control port. The data port should be 20.
Reading this article, I had one goal in mind: to figure out what advantages FTP has over HTTP. I didn't see any. Perhaps these could be added? — Simetrical ( talk) 02:17, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Saish 12:31, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Indeed HTTP can require the user to login, too. And since HTTP 1.1, it shouldn't be stateless anymore. But it's true that there's nothing in HTTP about manipulating files and directories in the remote server. HTTP is just for retrieving files (well, not in its origins -PUT, etc.- but in the practice it is).
Of course, it's completely possible (and some web hosting sites have done it) to build an FTP-equivalent system (using CGI) which uses http to transfer files to and from the client machine. Those systems have the advantage of being more familiar for non-expert users (well, few people know there exist ftp clients... apart from their browser). Another advantage is that what would be the client program is web-based, and thus designed by the server (this could be thougth as a disadvantage, but there certainly must be ways for automatically doing it if you don't want to handcraft a client).
An important thing to consider is that FTP predates HTTP. It's not like somebody thougth it would be better than HTTP =D. (As trivia, Tim based HTTP's response codes -as 404- on FTP's).
-- Euyyn User:Euyyn, 26-Nov-05
Perhaps the file transfer article would be a better place to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of one protocol over another. -- 75.37.227.177 20:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
File Transfer Protocol → FTP – (1) The term file transfer protocol, when uncapitalized, is a generic term which can refer to any method of transferring files from one communications point to another. (2) I have just written a new article on file transfer protocols in general and don't want it to be confused with this one. (3) The Internet File Transfer Protocol discussed is better-known as FTP. (4) The titles of most of the other protocols in the Internet protocol suite ( HTTP, etc.) use the acronym rather than the full name. — Psychonaut 14:40, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Voting closed
I propose moving this page from File Transfer Protocol to FTP for the following reasons:
— Psychonaut 14:37, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 22:49, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it would hurt the article to add a summary which discusses the working protocol in more detail, including establishing a connection, sending data, and terminating a connection. Maybe something about a the various FTP commands that are part of the protocol (file system browsing, etc.). It wouldn't have to be especially technical, but just discuss the parts of a typical FTP conversation, and some of the things that the client can "tell" the server. Brent 14:10, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
I know wikipedia isn't a how-to-do but I normally find there is enough info in a wikipedia article of this type to be able to start to figure out how to be able to do something. When I came to this article a few weeks it was much less helpful than similar articles have been (and with the notice already in place). What I didn't grasp at the time was that you need an FTP client in order to be able to download and upload files (I already had access to a server but didn't know how to access it and clearly couldn't do anything with the relevant interent page, and I still feel that this how it works could be explained more clearly in the opening, what we have now explains it much better than before but maybe not as well as could be done. Good to know there are some free FTP clients out there, SqueakBox 17:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Do we still need the banner saying this article needs an expert. I'd like to remove it. JesseHogan 01:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Removed JesseHogan 14:34, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that the content currently in the FTP over SSH article would be better served by being included in this File Transfer Protocol article, as part of a general discussion of "securing" FTP, including other approaches such as FTP over SSL/TLS. -- JTN 14:41, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
And while you're at it... How about the article for FTPS? That should be merged into this one as well. 12.110.196.19 18:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Guys, don't bother. SSH has been circumvented. Use SSL instead.
/me waits for someone to post something about SSL not being compatible with the FTP protocol. CMON GUYS! BRING IT ON!
--Insanitor.
The process has mocked me including you and you know it.
I am already on the wrong end of your process so give me a break ok?
This process has got me sick already and don't tell me that I have no right to feel the way I do about it.
So spare me your process, thanks.
207.38.191.195 01:38, 9 July 2006 (UTC)Insanitor.
I thought that wikipedia was an encyclopedia that could be edited by anyone.
Then I find out that you remove the link to my tutorial on purpose and now you say that I need to edit like an adult?
You invent this process to hinder my efforts and now I am not supposed to take this personally?
What planet do you come from?
On Earth we have consideration for other people's feelings.
Why did you put my ip address on the last message?
Do you want to hack into my computer?
--Insanitor.
Sir I call into question your honesty and integrity concerning this.
I was logged in just fine.
My IP address did not show up until you suggested that I put "four tildes" to sign my name with.
And then all of a sudden my IP address shows up.
If you think you are trying in vain to educate me about the process then the failure is yours and not mine.
According to what you have told me in the past editors are supposed to have a consensus on whether or not the link is included and the final decision is supposed to be based on consensus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk:Insanitor&oldid=49881266
If you read this discussion carefully the consensus so far was that there is no reason why my link should not be included yet I expect your edit if I dare to put the link back into this article.
Every editor including yourself have initially admitted that the link cannot hurt.
The fact that you and another editor have changed your minds, does not negate the fact that initial consensus nevertheless is still consensus.
It would seem to me that this process as you call it is not a process at all but actually a non standardized form of arbitrary exclusion by so called "editors" who do whatever they want and interpret the process according to which way the wind blows.
All editors including yourself initially indicated that the link being there cannot hurt the article.
You sir are not what you claim to be.
I might not have my link included in this article but I retain my dignity and perseverance in pointing out the facts in this discussion and arguing my points using factual evidence and anyone reading this using common sense and taking into account factual evidence will undoubtedly agree with my conclusions.
I sincerely hope that one day someone reading this discussion will look at my tutorial and get an ftp site running and thank me for my efforts because it seems that in here appreciation for effort is in extremely short supply.
I sincerely hope that anyone reading this will avoid the waste of time and energy I did and will see this editing process for what it really is.
--Insanitor.
I hereby retract my initial request to include my link in this article.
I am tired of being unfairly treated and if at any point wikipedia decides to include the link to my tutorial in the FTP article as I initially requested (not the link to it in this talk page) then the owners of wikipedia will hear from my lawyers.
A copy of this discussion and all related documents will be sent to the owners of this website.
--Insanitor.
I read the rules.
There was consensus.
You simply failed to include the link.
You claimed that you would allow the link if there was consensus and there was.
You ignored it.
Here are my the tildes.
Insanitor 23:38, 9 July 2006 (UTC) --Insanitor.
Why is Image:AnonFTPSession.jpg necessary for this article? More specifically: why is a 108 KiB file of pure text required when it's transcription is easily sufficient? Cburnett 21:42, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
To make you happy, though, I did transcribe the image. I still will absolutely insist that a 108 KiB image is completely and totally 100% irrelevant. Cburnett 02:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I propose removal and or rewriting of the "How to connect to FTP" section. Wikipedia is not a tutorial. Besides, the example given is platform specific and practically obsolete. Tutorials like this should be moved to the relevant FTP Client page if included at all, and not on this page, the purpose of which is to document the Protocol, not specific programs that utilise it. Comments? Martin Hinks 10:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Do we really need a cross-reference to Archie in 2003? really -- Vicki Rosenzweig
"It is hard to filter FTP traffic using a firewall, since the data connection is made to an apparently arbitary port". Is this really true? Is it not possible to just use passive FTP?
I've put a description of active mode FTP. Will do passive mode later. - Ta bu shi da yu 00:37, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
In the text it is mentioned that the port on the server is 21, this is the control port. The data port should be 20.
Reading this article, I had one goal in mind: to figure out what advantages FTP has over HTTP. I didn't see any. Perhaps these could be added? — Simetrical ( talk) 02:17, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Saish 12:31, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Indeed HTTP can require the user to login, too. And since HTTP 1.1, it shouldn't be stateless anymore. But it's true that there's nothing in HTTP about manipulating files and directories in the remote server. HTTP is just for retrieving files (well, not in its origins -PUT, etc.- but in the practice it is).
Of course, it's completely possible (and some web hosting sites have done it) to build an FTP-equivalent system (using CGI) which uses http to transfer files to and from the client machine. Those systems have the advantage of being more familiar for non-expert users (well, few people know there exist ftp clients... apart from their browser). Another advantage is that what would be the client program is web-based, and thus designed by the server (this could be thougth as a disadvantage, but there certainly must be ways for automatically doing it if you don't want to handcraft a client).
An important thing to consider is that FTP predates HTTP. It's not like somebody thougth it would be better than HTTP =D. (As trivia, Tim based HTTP's response codes -as 404- on FTP's).
-- Euyyn User:Euyyn, 26-Nov-05
Perhaps the file transfer article would be a better place to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of one protocol over another. -- 75.37.227.177 20:09, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
File Transfer Protocol → FTP – (1) The term file transfer protocol, when uncapitalized, is a generic term which can refer to any method of transferring files from one communications point to another. (2) I have just written a new article on file transfer protocols in general and don't want it to be confused with this one. (3) The Internet File Transfer Protocol discussed is better-known as FTP. (4) The titles of most of the other protocols in the Internet protocol suite ( HTTP, etc.) use the acronym rather than the full name. — Psychonaut 14:40, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Voting closed
I propose moving this page from File Transfer Protocol to FTP for the following reasons:
— Psychonaut 14:37, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 22:49, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it would hurt the article to add a summary which discusses the working protocol in more detail, including establishing a connection, sending data, and terminating a connection. Maybe something about a the various FTP commands that are part of the protocol (file system browsing, etc.). It wouldn't have to be especially technical, but just discuss the parts of a typical FTP conversation, and some of the things that the client can "tell" the server. Brent 14:10, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
I know wikipedia isn't a how-to-do but I normally find there is enough info in a wikipedia article of this type to be able to start to figure out how to be able to do something. When I came to this article a few weeks it was much less helpful than similar articles have been (and with the notice already in place). What I didn't grasp at the time was that you need an FTP client in order to be able to download and upload files (I already had access to a server but didn't know how to access it and clearly couldn't do anything with the relevant interent page, and I still feel that this how it works could be explained more clearly in the opening, what we have now explains it much better than before but maybe not as well as could be done. Good to know there are some free FTP clients out there, SqueakBox 17:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Do we still need the banner saying this article needs an expert. I'd like to remove it. JesseHogan 01:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
Removed JesseHogan 14:34, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that the content currently in the FTP over SSH article would be better served by being included in this File Transfer Protocol article, as part of a general discussion of "securing" FTP, including other approaches such as FTP over SSL/TLS. -- JTN 14:41, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
And while you're at it... How about the article for FTPS? That should be merged into this one as well. 12.110.196.19 18:42, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Guys, don't bother. SSH has been circumvented. Use SSL instead.
/me waits for someone to post something about SSL not being compatible with the FTP protocol. CMON GUYS! BRING IT ON!
--Insanitor.
The process has mocked me including you and you know it.
I am already on the wrong end of your process so give me a break ok?
This process has got me sick already and don't tell me that I have no right to feel the way I do about it.
So spare me your process, thanks.
207.38.191.195 01:38, 9 July 2006 (UTC)Insanitor.
I thought that wikipedia was an encyclopedia that could be edited by anyone.
Then I find out that you remove the link to my tutorial on purpose and now you say that I need to edit like an adult?
You invent this process to hinder my efforts and now I am not supposed to take this personally?
What planet do you come from?
On Earth we have consideration for other people's feelings.
Why did you put my ip address on the last message?
Do you want to hack into my computer?
--Insanitor.
Sir I call into question your honesty and integrity concerning this.
I was logged in just fine.
My IP address did not show up until you suggested that I put "four tildes" to sign my name with.
And then all of a sudden my IP address shows up.
If you think you are trying in vain to educate me about the process then the failure is yours and not mine.
According to what you have told me in the past editors are supposed to have a consensus on whether or not the link is included and the final decision is supposed to be based on consensus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=User_talk:Insanitor&oldid=49881266
If you read this discussion carefully the consensus so far was that there is no reason why my link should not be included yet I expect your edit if I dare to put the link back into this article.
Every editor including yourself have initially admitted that the link cannot hurt.
The fact that you and another editor have changed your minds, does not negate the fact that initial consensus nevertheless is still consensus.
It would seem to me that this process as you call it is not a process at all but actually a non standardized form of arbitrary exclusion by so called "editors" who do whatever they want and interpret the process according to which way the wind blows.
All editors including yourself initially indicated that the link being there cannot hurt the article.
You sir are not what you claim to be.
I might not have my link included in this article but I retain my dignity and perseverance in pointing out the facts in this discussion and arguing my points using factual evidence and anyone reading this using common sense and taking into account factual evidence will undoubtedly agree with my conclusions.
I sincerely hope that one day someone reading this discussion will look at my tutorial and get an ftp site running and thank me for my efforts because it seems that in here appreciation for effort is in extremely short supply.
I sincerely hope that anyone reading this will avoid the waste of time and energy I did and will see this editing process for what it really is.
--Insanitor.
I hereby retract my initial request to include my link in this article.
I am tired of being unfairly treated and if at any point wikipedia decides to include the link to my tutorial in the FTP article as I initially requested (not the link to it in this talk page) then the owners of wikipedia will hear from my lawyers.
A copy of this discussion and all related documents will be sent to the owners of this website.
--Insanitor.
I read the rules.
There was consensus.
You simply failed to include the link.
You claimed that you would allow the link if there was consensus and there was.
You ignored it.
Here are my the tildes.
Insanitor 23:38, 9 July 2006 (UTC) --Insanitor.
Why is Image:AnonFTPSession.jpg necessary for this article? More specifically: why is a 108 KiB file of pure text required when it's transcription is easily sufficient? Cburnett 21:42, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
To make you happy, though, I did transcribe the image. I still will absolutely insist that a 108 KiB image is completely and totally 100% irrelevant. Cburnett 02:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
I propose removal and or rewriting of the "How to connect to FTP" section. Wikipedia is not a tutorial. Besides, the example given is platform specific and practically obsolete. Tutorials like this should be moved to the relevant FTP Client page if included at all, and not on this page, the purpose of which is to document the Protocol, not specific programs that utilise it. Comments? Martin Hinks 10:15, 26 February 2006 (UTC)