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Hi Wikipedians, I know it is a hard task to remain impartial in actual political questions, but I strongly feel that phrases just like ""...a very tough challenge, the MSZP standing around 25% and the opposition's main party: the Fidesz standing about 50%."" are not impartial and absolutely superfluous in a BIOGRAPHY (i.e. this is not an article on political prospects of big parties in Hungary). I suggest immediate cancelling the above mentioned phrase. Millisits 14:52, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I changed the sentence, let's see if you like it. -- Sicboy 23:13, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Hello Sicboy, there is one other point in which I think we should make a change. You wrote in the article, that as long he was a minister for sports, a huge doping scandal broke out, which is true, still the context makes it look like as if it would have been his wrongdoing, and that is not encyclopedical. You must also know, that the official standpoint of the ministry was that our athletes had not doped, so either you add this too, or we shall remove the sentence at all. That does not mean, that I would like Gyurcsány, Medgyessy or Orbán, but since it's the Wikipedia, we should stay NPOV.
Oh, and a factual error: the president of DEMISZ was not Gyurcsány, but Nagy Imre. Shinichi1977 13:39, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Funny guy :-) bogdan 22:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
What an idiot!! LoL
Msoos, strangely enough you still have not provided any corroborating evidence that would support your ridiculous claim that Gyurcsány is an entrepreneur HVG and that his wealth has nothing to do with the marrying into the Apró Clan Family - Index.hu. One would wonder that what could be the reason for it? Perhaps the fact, that it is not true? I can easily prove my claims (that you keep deleting)! Gyurcsány lost his slander claim case against the Magyar Nemzet newspaper regarding the Fittelina case Népszabadság and he has withdrawn his claim against the same newspaper regarding the Nomentana case FigyelőNet
Amexos 11 August 2006
Hello Nyenyec, It is good to hear that your are not here to ban me, I thought that perhaps Msoos brought you here for this purpose, since he [ my talk] accused me of "vandalism", claiming that I would not be the first one to suffer a fate like that. As you can see on the top of the section, I have already proven my side on Gyurcsány's lack of "entrepreneurship", there are four different sources that question his business ethics. I believe now it is up to Msoos to either change the original posting to reflect the truth or remove the falsifying term.
Regards, Amexos Amexos 16:25, 12 August 2006
Hello Nyenyec, I think that we all know how he made his fortune, it is pretty much common knowledge in Hungary. Buying up "privatized" government properties for next to nothing (using his commie network contacts in the Apró Family) and then leasing back the property to the government for significant amounts, making huge profits does not qualifies as entrepreneurship(not in the normal sense anyway). I am not going to spend more time arguing with Msoos on Gyurcsány(i), I have better things to do than wasting time. I am somewhat disappointed because I thought that the content of the Wikipedia is verified for authenticity. Perhaps later I will take this issue up with the admin person responsible for verifying the core knowledge.
Have a good day. Amexos 13 August 2006
I have a question concerning the point "Opposition Arguments". The sources are missing at some points. Especially on the issue of administrative reform, there is no source. Furthermore, what were the reasons for his predecessors resignation? What was the conflict between MSZP and SZDSZ about? Can anyone help out? -- Philiboy 14:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
How about making a new article about the events related to the audio recording? -- HappyCamper 09:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Who taped and leaked the "confession"?
With respect to this part of the latest controversial quote:
I took this conversation out of the HTML comments in the wikitext:
We are citing this as what the BBC said. We therefore must use the BBC's translation, so "screwed up" goes, whether or not this is the most idiomatic version of the Hungarian original.
To 71.70.239.130: you're free to dispute this, but in order to change it in the article, you're going to have to find another notable English translation of Gyurcsány's words which uses "fucked up". - Saforrest 15:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
"Elkúrtuk" (which Gyurcsány actually said in Hungarian) is not the most vulgar term, similar to "f**ked up" in English. The latter would have been expressed in Hungarian as "elbasztuk" – this is what would be properly translated as "f**ked up". See also the Hungarian translation of "f**k" in Wiktionary. Adam78 16:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
FG's problem - he admitted what all politicians do.
How do you tell if a politician is lying? They open their mouths.
And then there is the joke about the politician linked up to a lie detector machine which "reacted" when he told his name (ie the truth)
(post to political jokes when desired: they just happen to be appropriate here.
It's not entirely accurate to say the demonstrations are caused by the publishing the tapes. The real reason is the absymal state of the economy caused by the socialism (one of the worst in Europe and with an inflation other 10%). The open cynism that the government demonstrates only served as a catalyst. Also the sentance about how the demonstators were joined by soccer fans a stormed the building together is false as it was only the soccer fans who did the rioting.
Today BBC World translated "elkúrtuk" as "fucked up" (which is more accurate, by the way, see above) so I'm going to change it back. -- Zoz (t) 19:36, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I've only found [4] reference for the opposite. Would you give your reference, please? Adam78 21:08, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm afraid that stating
is nothing but a POV. However: if you want, you can add a footnote or a remark of any kind saying that "Certain resources translated this word as 'fucked up'" (with exact links to the resources) but you must not alter the translation of BBC. You may be entirely certain you're right but it's actually not your business but that of BBC.
The only thing you can do is adding a remark about the controversy over the translation (rather than your own opinion). Don't forget: Wikipedia is not a primary source and no original research is advisable. Adam78 23:14, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Stating that this translation is better than another certainly needs an objective ground, be it a dictionary or a study or whatever. If you don't claim your ground for your preferred translation, it is original research or a POV, I believe. This is why I wrote above the other option you have: citing a source which also uses the translation "fucked up". Cite. Cite. Cite. Isn't it really so difficult to understand? – There is no problem with editorial preferences as long as there is consensus among editors about using this specific preference. In this case, unfortunately, there is no such consensus, I'm afraid.
"Fucked up" is at the most vulgar end of a scale in English, just like "elbasztuk" is at the most vulgar end of the corresponding scale in Hungarian. Just think of the fact that among homonymous words, it's only "fuck" which is frequently used with asterisks or hyphens. "Screwed" is not used like that. The word "fuck" has a special status in English, as you know very well.
And its Hungarian equivalent is not "elkúrtuk" but "elbasztuk". The only Hungarian word which is regularly used with asterisks is "baszik" and its derivatives. "Elkúrtuk" is not. If Gyurcsány had wanted to use a word which is at the vulgar end of this scale, he would have "elbasztuk". However, he did not say that. This means that we must not resort to a word in the English translation which is at the end of the corresponding scale in English. "Elkúrtuk" is obscene but it doesn't have that special status in Hungarian as "elbasztuk" has. "Screwed up" is obscene but it doesn't have that special status in English as "fucked up" has. This is why I think they can't be equivalents. Adam78 17:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Just a couple of short comments.
Adam78 19:52, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
[5] [6] Frigo 15:55, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
much of this article reads like an attack piece. Of course the recording scandal should be a central theme, but especially the section "opposition arguments" is essentially a list of criticism of Gyurchany by the opposition without any counterbalancing comments by his supporters. Also, the account of the recent riots is unbalanced, with such POV statements as "did anything to cut their way" and "presumably the football fans." Also the particular quote from the leaked recording is not representative of the whole, and seems to have been chosen to make Gyurchany look as bad as possible. I am not proposing that anything be removed from this article, but until it is rounded out in a more balanced way an NPOV tag is necessary. Dsol 18:08, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I find it unfortunate that:
So for everyone reading this, I ask this: Please add to the article. Add where he was born, what high-school he attended, what languages he speaks at what level, which conference he attended, which big politician did he have conversation with (Bush, etc.) and when, what are his current policies and what is the rationale behind these policies, and so on...
Thanks in advance, Msoos 22:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
In the box below the Prime Minister's photograph, his dates in office are listed as September 29, 2004 - October 1, 2006. I see no mention either in this article or in the article pertaining to the protests that says that he will be stepping down as of October 1, so where is this coming from? I don't know if it's true or not, but I do think that this needs to be verified. If true, particular mention of this fact should be made elsewhere in the article. -- IntrigueBlue 04:25, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
It was a simple vandalism. Thank you for warning. Adam78 09:06, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
according to the Hungarian wikipedia, his name is last name first [7]. Should the name of the article be changed accordingly?-- Skyfiler 15:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
The article's heading is plagued with funny characters, such as (\\\'\\\'\\\'Ferenc Gyurcsány (help·info)\\\'\\\'\\\'). Do they have any meaning? If no answers appear in a few days, I'll delete them. Any objections? -- AVM 23:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I just reverted the page. Someone decided to vandalise again. I also asked that the page be protected for the time being Dominic 16:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
He's the 6th post-Communist Hungarian PM, but hardly the 6th overall Prime Minister of Hungary, as the template would seem to indicate. Biruitorul 23:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
On the confidential vote, no socialist or liberal MP voted against him. Two socialist MPs resigned from their membership earlier (one of them became the Hungarian Ambassador to Canada, the other was voted mayor of the 7th district of Budapest), the third one had a car accident months ago and he is still in coma. (But the only independent MP voted for Gyurcsány). Cassandro, ..., 22:08, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
I just received Hokizzczukka's letter, that the fletoka gyurcsanyi is resigned. He is totally K.O. on the wits.-- Kutya gumi 15:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for disturbing with another thema. I would have a question about HU politics, but can't understand the language. In the I-Net dictionaries i have'nt seen the translation of the word "összetételében". Could anyone explain, what is that to mean in hungarian? And further: if the vokscentrum divides Antall-period into three and Medgyessy into two "összetételében"'s, then are those to be handeled as different governments with one and the same Prime Minister or are these just the usual government reshuffles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.35.135.40 ( talk • contribs)
"Összetételében" means approximately "regarding its decomposition"; if the word is used in reference to a government, then it's to say something like "and here's the list of people making up this government". There is no precise definition as to what makes a government "new", but as the political system in Hungary allows the PM to dismiss ministers and appoint new ones as many times as it pleases him/her, various cabinets under the same PM are generally not considered different governments. (Thus the Antall and Boross cabinets are usually referred to as two, except if someone says "Antall-Boross-kormány" to emphasise they are talking about both; whereas "Gyurcsány-kormány" generally refers to both the one before and the one after the latest general elections, unless someone says "első/második Gyurcsány-kormány" to emphasise they are talking about the first/second of these two periods only.) K issL 17:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, i will take them as one then. 213.35.135.40 19:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I am new to wikipedia, so please take this comment with that in mind: I think that the following part is not true: "..making him the first Prime Minister to be re-elected since 1990.." since as he was elected only once. Could please somebody who has some skills with editing wikipedia pages maybe correct that ?
I've rephrased it a bit. K issL 19:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
What is your problem with the references? Both the TV interview and the newspaper are good sources for data about an active politician. Zello 21:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
That phrase was inaccurate (and was obviously not covered by the reference). I rephrased it to what I suppose was the idea of the original author. Tell me if you still have a problem with it. K issL 13:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
As to him being tight-lipped, I think it is a trivial fact, but feel free to refute it by bringing any reference which would talk about his religious affiliation before, say, 2005. And as to this making a lot of people think he is an atheist, just ask ten people on the street. This removal of common sense information (which, incidentally, happens to put the following two sentences out of context) is useless wikilawyering. Finally, removing the only sentence you raised objections about and putting a disputed tag over a much larger section at the same time is simply ridiculous. K issL 08:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Nobody said they do. The statement is that it was widely believed that he was an atheist. Bring an argument to the contrary, or stop removing common sense information. K issL 09:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
An empty ad hominem is hardly worth more than no argument at all; not to mention it's not me who wants to change the status quo, so the burden of proof is not on me. You still haven't even attempted to justify your removal. K issL 09:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Your reference' is said that: "Gyurcsány said that as a teenager, he "took part in confirmation for about two years" and even considered becoming a priest.[15] Since confirmation can only be taken once, some regarded this claim as a giveaway that he was not telling the truth, while others such as Catholic bishop Endre Gyulai supposed he meant he took part in preparations for a confirmation.[16]"
First: that he said as teenager don't say anything what is "religious affiliation" at now. Second: his confirmation where talking about his an atheist ("is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2]")
Your justifiy "as can be expected from a former KISZ leader" is an generality and assumption without real and objective reference.
After that your edition is a personal attack, a vandalism and there is no need reason when is undid more times. -- Beyond silence 14:36, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure I get your English at times, but I repeat:
Finally, read and understand WP:NPA. My patience is at an end. K issL 15:27, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Kissl here, if you want to change something eg remove something that was there, you have to justify it first. Also the personal attacks and calling obviously good faith edits vandalism will not help your case. FYI the K in KISZ stands for "communist" (a probable reason for the atheist reference). Hobartimus 08:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I can't find many sources that would talk about him being allegedly expelled from the Apáczai, but this one does not suggest so. He seems to have had a conflict with the headmaster about having to learn a second foreign language, but ultimately chose to leave by himself, without pressure. I have actually never read anyone (other than Gyurcsány himself) claim he was expelled. K issL 09:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
"From May 2003 until September 2004 he was a minister responsible for sports, youth and children. Under his office, Hungary has suffered a high-profile athletic doping scandal during the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens."
There is no justified connection between him and doping. I never heard about this speculation imputation, so I don't think you have any kind of reference - or you have? If no don't undo this! -- Beyond silence 08:25, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
The fact that he was responsible for sports while this happened is enough connection to mention it. That there was no direct connection can be emphasised, though it follows logically from the fact that there are no further details to add. K issL 10:02, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Beyond silence: there is no justified connection between him and the nasty athlets. I removed it. Gubbubu 20:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Specific description of the requested edit:
Delete this statements:
(Referenced content don't justify about this this statement. The "as can be expected from a former KISZ leader" is an subjective opinion. Thanks -- Beyond silence 23:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't think Gyurcsány has anything to do with the doping scandal. He has got enough scandals without this speculation and he was hardly responsible for that what'd happened during the games - or if he was, it should be proved (but to the the other disputed things I cannot put a word). Gubbubu 09:07, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
This seems pretty easy to resolve -- the doping scandal is obviously off-topic here, and should be deleted. The atheism sentence just needs to be rephrased. How about "After his return to politics, Gyurcsány was at first tight-lipped about his religious affiliation. This lead many to assume, on the basis of his past as a KISZ leader, that he is an atheist." Of course, it would be good to cite a reference for this. -- Zsebenci Klopédia 10:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Someone with an edit right please search for the link to University of Budapest and change it to Eötvös Loránd University. Thanks, Kuteni 19:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
This article is currently in the category fraudsters, but does not contain referenced information to support this claim, as required by Wikipedia:Categorization and Wikipedia:Categorization of people, and especially the non-negotiable Wikipedia: Biographies of living persons policy. I'm going to remove the category for the time being, although I will happily replace it if a source can be provided showing that this person has committed fraud. Natalie 21:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Added info on how communists used dynasty-building as a way to save stolen wealth and influence throughout the democratic transition and gain back rule a dozen years later. Gyurcsany's second and current marriage is such a prime example of this "social networking" tactic it's already written about in books discussing the modern age communist movements.
The bulgarian and russian ties of Gyurcsany and his works all point to the Kremlin's desire to reclaim Hungary into the eastern bloc, as re-emerging Russia constructs the belt of "satellite states" once again. Communists throughout eastern and central Europe are eager to assist and the same fate may await Slovakia. The rumanians and the polish are luckily to much russophobic to be tricked by the kremlin's servants. 91.82.243.75 ( talk) 13:17, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, but I suggest the string 'the MSZP; in fact not Socialist but Social Democratic' to be deleted. There is no reference why the editor tried to dispute or overrule the party's own self-designation.
As a matter of fact MSZP does not look like a democratic party when
- winning the elections ('06) with withheld information about the actual budget deficit and denial of future plans on social policy (for references see the main article)
- using the police to attack also the peaceful demonstrators and then praising the police that hit everybody on the streets (the young, the old, even some tourists) (deleted post of the Gyurcsány-blog, quoted on many websites, http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyurcs%C3%A1ny_Ferenc#Szem.C3.A9lye_k.C3.B6r.C3.BCli_konfliktusok)
- staying stubbornly in office after the series of proof that the society is against their policy ( http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-os_magyarorsz%C3%A1gi_%C3%B6nkorm%C3%A1nyzati_v%C3%A1laszt%C3%A1sok#Eredm.C3.A9nyek, http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008-as_magyarorsz%C3%A1gi_n%C3%A9pszavaz%C3%A1s#Eredm.C3.A9nyek, http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009-es_eur%C3%B3pai_parlamenti_v%C3%A1laszt%C3%A1s_Magyarorsz%C3%A1gon#Eredm.C3.A9nyek)
- not inviting (in fact banning) an opposition-oriented TV-channel to their press conference ( http://www.hirtv.net/filmek/civil0402.wmv)
- ...
There are three unjustified statements here.
1) "his legitimacy is highly controversial" Not true. As I corrected, his legitimacy is permanently questioned by his opposition. Distinction is important and very clear. 2) "expressed denial of his plans on social policy" Not referenced. The video (in Hungarian) only proves that Gyurcsány denied planning certain measures in the 2006 campain. This cannot be a source to prove that actually he had that plan but denied having it. 3) "the only Prime Minister of Hungarian history..." There is no source. The only reference here is Wikipedia itself which is not a source ever.
-- peyerk ( talk) 18:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
What does the above (last sentence in the article's second para) actually mean? The citation goes directly to a video, which doesn't help. I know the dictionary definition (to make relative) but it's not exactly in common usage; could someone please reword this to be clearer (and slightly less POV)? 86.143.51.126 ( talk) 15:32, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.politics.hu/20140114/opposition-leaders-agree-on-joint-list-for-general-election/ http://www.politics.hu/20140114/quotable-antal-rogan-on-the-opposition-coalition/ http://www.politics.hu/20130910/opposition-dk-socialist-election-talks-election-break-down/ http://www.politics.hu/20120917/former-pm-urges-opposition-to-step-up-protest-against-voter-registration/ http://www.politics.hu/20120913/mszp-must-nominate-pm-name-allies-by-late-2013-says-socialist-board-chairman/ http://www.politics.hu/20120914/jobbik-dubs-gyurcsany-hunger-strike-phoney-and-hypocritical-trumps-it-with-hot-meal-handouts/ http://www.politics.hu/20120910/former-pm-gyurcsany-on-week-long-hunger-strike-over-fidesz-voter-registration-plan/ http://www.politics.hu/20120911/gyurcsany-hunger-strike-party-ordered-to-pay-huf-132000-for-occupying-area-outside-parliament/ http://www.politics.hu/20101115/senior-socialist-sends-guarded-signals-about-expm-gyurcsany/ http://www.politics.hu/20110112/socialists-reportedly-to-assess-former-pms-party-wing-in-february/ http://www.politics.hu/20110218/top-socialist-says-former-pm-gyurcsany-should-leave-party-rather-than-ruining-mszp/ http://www.politics.hu/20110519/socialist-platforms-discuss-future-strategy/ http://www.politics.hu/20111022/gyurcsany-announces-departure-from-socialists-formation-of-new-western-civic-center-left-party/ http://www.politics.hu/20101007/gyurcsany-to-form-socialist-faction/ http://www.politics.hu/20101022/gyurcsanys-new-faction-forms-today/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Psychonaut ( talk) 19:44, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 09:17, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ferenc Gyurcsány/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Gyurcsány is NOT an entrepreneur as stated by the author. Gyurcsány would never have got where he is today without making use of the contacts and the support base of the [ Apró] Clan that he married into. HVG - Index.hu. =187&cid=134076 FigyelőNet |
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Hi Wikipedians, I know it is a hard task to remain impartial in actual political questions, but I strongly feel that phrases just like ""...a very tough challenge, the MSZP standing around 25% and the opposition's main party: the Fidesz standing about 50%."" are not impartial and absolutely superfluous in a BIOGRAPHY (i.e. this is not an article on political prospects of big parties in Hungary). I suggest immediate cancelling the above mentioned phrase. Millisits 14:52, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I changed the sentence, let's see if you like it. -- Sicboy 23:13, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Hello Sicboy, there is one other point in which I think we should make a change. You wrote in the article, that as long he was a minister for sports, a huge doping scandal broke out, which is true, still the context makes it look like as if it would have been his wrongdoing, and that is not encyclopedical. You must also know, that the official standpoint of the ministry was that our athletes had not doped, so either you add this too, or we shall remove the sentence at all. That does not mean, that I would like Gyurcsány, Medgyessy or Orbán, but since it's the Wikipedia, we should stay NPOV.
Oh, and a factual error: the president of DEMISZ was not Gyurcsány, but Nagy Imre. Shinichi1977 13:39, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Funny guy :-) bogdan 22:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
What an idiot!! LoL
Msoos, strangely enough you still have not provided any corroborating evidence that would support your ridiculous claim that Gyurcsány is an entrepreneur HVG and that his wealth has nothing to do with the marrying into the Apró Clan Family - Index.hu. One would wonder that what could be the reason for it? Perhaps the fact, that it is not true? I can easily prove my claims (that you keep deleting)! Gyurcsány lost his slander claim case against the Magyar Nemzet newspaper regarding the Fittelina case Népszabadság and he has withdrawn his claim against the same newspaper regarding the Nomentana case FigyelőNet
Amexos 11 August 2006
Hello Nyenyec, It is good to hear that your are not here to ban me, I thought that perhaps Msoos brought you here for this purpose, since he [ my talk] accused me of "vandalism", claiming that I would not be the first one to suffer a fate like that. As you can see on the top of the section, I have already proven my side on Gyurcsány's lack of "entrepreneurship", there are four different sources that question his business ethics. I believe now it is up to Msoos to either change the original posting to reflect the truth or remove the falsifying term.
Regards, Amexos Amexos 16:25, 12 August 2006
Hello Nyenyec, I think that we all know how he made his fortune, it is pretty much common knowledge in Hungary. Buying up "privatized" government properties for next to nothing (using his commie network contacts in the Apró Family) and then leasing back the property to the government for significant amounts, making huge profits does not qualifies as entrepreneurship(not in the normal sense anyway). I am not going to spend more time arguing with Msoos on Gyurcsány(i), I have better things to do than wasting time. I am somewhat disappointed because I thought that the content of the Wikipedia is verified for authenticity. Perhaps later I will take this issue up with the admin person responsible for verifying the core knowledge.
Have a good day. Amexos 13 August 2006
I have a question concerning the point "Opposition Arguments". The sources are missing at some points. Especially on the issue of administrative reform, there is no source. Furthermore, what were the reasons for his predecessors resignation? What was the conflict between MSZP and SZDSZ about? Can anyone help out? -- Philiboy 14:57, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
How about making a new article about the events related to the audio recording? -- HappyCamper 09:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Who taped and leaked the "confession"?
With respect to this part of the latest controversial quote:
I took this conversation out of the HTML comments in the wikitext:
We are citing this as what the BBC said. We therefore must use the BBC's translation, so "screwed up" goes, whether or not this is the most idiomatic version of the Hungarian original.
To 71.70.239.130: you're free to dispute this, but in order to change it in the article, you're going to have to find another notable English translation of Gyurcsány's words which uses "fucked up". - Saforrest 15:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
"Elkúrtuk" (which Gyurcsány actually said in Hungarian) is not the most vulgar term, similar to "f**ked up" in English. The latter would have been expressed in Hungarian as "elbasztuk" – this is what would be properly translated as "f**ked up". See also the Hungarian translation of "f**k" in Wiktionary. Adam78 16:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
FG's problem - he admitted what all politicians do.
How do you tell if a politician is lying? They open their mouths.
And then there is the joke about the politician linked up to a lie detector machine which "reacted" when he told his name (ie the truth)
(post to political jokes when desired: they just happen to be appropriate here.
It's not entirely accurate to say the demonstrations are caused by the publishing the tapes. The real reason is the absymal state of the economy caused by the socialism (one of the worst in Europe and with an inflation other 10%). The open cynism that the government demonstrates only served as a catalyst. Also the sentance about how the demonstators were joined by soccer fans a stormed the building together is false as it was only the soccer fans who did the rioting.
Today BBC World translated "elkúrtuk" as "fucked up" (which is more accurate, by the way, see above) so I'm going to change it back. -- Zoz (t) 19:36, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I've only found [4] reference for the opposite. Would you give your reference, please? Adam78 21:08, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm afraid that stating
is nothing but a POV. However: if you want, you can add a footnote or a remark of any kind saying that "Certain resources translated this word as 'fucked up'" (with exact links to the resources) but you must not alter the translation of BBC. You may be entirely certain you're right but it's actually not your business but that of BBC.
The only thing you can do is adding a remark about the controversy over the translation (rather than your own opinion). Don't forget: Wikipedia is not a primary source and no original research is advisable. Adam78 23:14, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Stating that this translation is better than another certainly needs an objective ground, be it a dictionary or a study or whatever. If you don't claim your ground for your preferred translation, it is original research or a POV, I believe. This is why I wrote above the other option you have: citing a source which also uses the translation "fucked up". Cite. Cite. Cite. Isn't it really so difficult to understand? – There is no problem with editorial preferences as long as there is consensus among editors about using this specific preference. In this case, unfortunately, there is no such consensus, I'm afraid.
"Fucked up" is at the most vulgar end of a scale in English, just like "elbasztuk" is at the most vulgar end of the corresponding scale in Hungarian. Just think of the fact that among homonymous words, it's only "fuck" which is frequently used with asterisks or hyphens. "Screwed" is not used like that. The word "fuck" has a special status in English, as you know very well.
And its Hungarian equivalent is not "elkúrtuk" but "elbasztuk". The only Hungarian word which is regularly used with asterisks is "baszik" and its derivatives. "Elkúrtuk" is not. If Gyurcsány had wanted to use a word which is at the vulgar end of this scale, he would have "elbasztuk". However, he did not say that. This means that we must not resort to a word in the English translation which is at the end of the corresponding scale in English. "Elkúrtuk" is obscene but it doesn't have that special status in Hungarian as "elbasztuk" has. "Screwed up" is obscene but it doesn't have that special status in English as "fucked up" has. This is why I think they can't be equivalents. Adam78 17:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
Just a couple of short comments.
Adam78 19:52, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
[5] [6] Frigo 15:55, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
much of this article reads like an attack piece. Of course the recording scandal should be a central theme, but especially the section "opposition arguments" is essentially a list of criticism of Gyurchany by the opposition without any counterbalancing comments by his supporters. Also, the account of the recent riots is unbalanced, with such POV statements as "did anything to cut their way" and "presumably the football fans." Also the particular quote from the leaked recording is not representative of the whole, and seems to have been chosen to make Gyurchany look as bad as possible. I am not proposing that anything be removed from this article, but until it is rounded out in a more balanced way an NPOV tag is necessary. Dsol 18:08, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I find it unfortunate that:
So for everyone reading this, I ask this: Please add to the article. Add where he was born, what high-school he attended, what languages he speaks at what level, which conference he attended, which big politician did he have conversation with (Bush, etc.) and when, what are his current policies and what is the rationale behind these policies, and so on...
Thanks in advance, Msoos 22:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
In the box below the Prime Minister's photograph, his dates in office are listed as September 29, 2004 - October 1, 2006. I see no mention either in this article or in the article pertaining to the protests that says that he will be stepping down as of October 1, so where is this coming from? I don't know if it's true or not, but I do think that this needs to be verified. If true, particular mention of this fact should be made elsewhere in the article. -- IntrigueBlue 04:25, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
It was a simple vandalism. Thank you for warning. Adam78 09:06, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
according to the Hungarian wikipedia, his name is last name first [7]. Should the name of the article be changed accordingly?-- Skyfiler 15:13, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
The article's heading is plagued with funny characters, such as (\\\'\\\'\\\'Ferenc Gyurcsány (help·info)\\\'\\\'\\\'). Do they have any meaning? If no answers appear in a few days, I'll delete them. Any objections? -- AVM 23:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I just reverted the page. Someone decided to vandalise again. I also asked that the page be protected for the time being Dominic 16:24, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
He's the 6th post-Communist Hungarian PM, but hardly the 6th overall Prime Minister of Hungary, as the template would seem to indicate. Biruitorul 23:59, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
On the confidential vote, no socialist or liberal MP voted against him. Two socialist MPs resigned from their membership earlier (one of them became the Hungarian Ambassador to Canada, the other was voted mayor of the 7th district of Budapest), the third one had a car accident months ago and he is still in coma. (But the only independent MP voted for Gyurcsány). Cassandro, ..., 22:08, 28 October 2006 (CEST)
I just received Hokizzczukka's letter, that the fletoka gyurcsanyi is resigned. He is totally K.O. on the wits.-- Kutya gumi 15:45, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for disturbing with another thema. I would have a question about HU politics, but can't understand the language. In the I-Net dictionaries i have'nt seen the translation of the word "összetételében". Could anyone explain, what is that to mean in hungarian? And further: if the vokscentrum divides Antall-period into three and Medgyessy into two "összetételében"'s, then are those to be handeled as different governments with one and the same Prime Minister or are these just the usual government reshuffles? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.35.135.40 ( talk • contribs)
"Összetételében" means approximately "regarding its decomposition"; if the word is used in reference to a government, then it's to say something like "and here's the list of people making up this government". There is no precise definition as to what makes a government "new", but as the political system in Hungary allows the PM to dismiss ministers and appoint new ones as many times as it pleases him/her, various cabinets under the same PM are generally not considered different governments. (Thus the Antall and Boross cabinets are usually referred to as two, except if someone says "Antall-Boross-kormány" to emphasise they are talking about both; whereas "Gyurcsány-kormány" generally refers to both the one before and the one after the latest general elections, unless someone says "első/második Gyurcsány-kormány" to emphasise they are talking about the first/second of these two periods only.) K issL 17:02, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, i will take them as one then. 213.35.135.40 19:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I am new to wikipedia, so please take this comment with that in mind: I think that the following part is not true: "..making him the first Prime Minister to be re-elected since 1990.." since as he was elected only once. Could please somebody who has some skills with editing wikipedia pages maybe correct that ?
I've rephrased it a bit. K issL 19:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
What is your problem with the references? Both the TV interview and the newspaper are good sources for data about an active politician. Zello 21:59, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
That phrase was inaccurate (and was obviously not covered by the reference). I rephrased it to what I suppose was the idea of the original author. Tell me if you still have a problem with it. K issL 13:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
As to him being tight-lipped, I think it is a trivial fact, but feel free to refute it by bringing any reference which would talk about his religious affiliation before, say, 2005. And as to this making a lot of people think he is an atheist, just ask ten people on the street. This removal of common sense information (which, incidentally, happens to put the following two sentences out of context) is useless wikilawyering. Finally, removing the only sentence you raised objections about and putting a disputed tag over a much larger section at the same time is simply ridiculous. K issL 08:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Nobody said they do. The statement is that it was widely believed that he was an atheist. Bring an argument to the contrary, or stop removing common sense information. K issL 09:46, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
An empty ad hominem is hardly worth more than no argument at all; not to mention it's not me who wants to change the status quo, so the burden of proof is not on me. You still haven't even attempted to justify your removal. K issL 09:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
Your reference' is said that: "Gyurcsány said that as a teenager, he "took part in confirmation for about two years" and even considered becoming a priest.[15] Since confirmation can only be taken once, some regarded this claim as a giveaway that he was not telling the truth, while others such as Catholic bishop Endre Gyulai supposed he meant he took part in preparations for a confirmation.[16]"
First: that he said as teenager don't say anything what is "religious affiliation" at now. Second: his confirmation where talking about his an atheist ("is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods[1] or rejects theism.[2]")
Your justifiy "as can be expected from a former KISZ leader" is an generality and assumption without real and objective reference.
After that your edition is a personal attack, a vandalism and there is no need reason when is undid more times. -- Beyond silence 14:36, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure I get your English at times, but I repeat:
Finally, read and understand WP:NPA. My patience is at an end. K issL 15:27, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Kissl here, if you want to change something eg remove something that was there, you have to justify it first. Also the personal attacks and calling obviously good faith edits vandalism will not help your case. FYI the K in KISZ stands for "communist" (a probable reason for the atheist reference). Hobartimus 08:42, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
I can't find many sources that would talk about him being allegedly expelled from the Apáczai, but this one does not suggest so. He seems to have had a conflict with the headmaster about having to learn a second foreign language, but ultimately chose to leave by himself, without pressure. I have actually never read anyone (other than Gyurcsány himself) claim he was expelled. K issL 09:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
"From May 2003 until September 2004 he was a minister responsible for sports, youth and children. Under his office, Hungary has suffered a high-profile athletic doping scandal during the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens."
There is no justified connection between him and doping. I never heard about this speculation imputation, so I don't think you have any kind of reference - or you have? If no don't undo this! -- Beyond silence 08:25, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
The fact that he was responsible for sports while this happened is enough connection to mention it. That there was no direct connection can be emphasised, though it follows logically from the fact that there are no further details to add. K issL 10:02, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Beyond silence: there is no justified connection between him and the nasty athlets. I removed it. Gubbubu 20:02, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Specific description of the requested edit:
Delete this statements:
(Referenced content don't justify about this this statement. The "as can be expected from a former KISZ leader" is an subjective opinion. Thanks -- Beyond silence 23:29, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't think Gyurcsány has anything to do with the doping scandal. He has got enough scandals without this speculation and he was hardly responsible for that what'd happened during the games - or if he was, it should be proved (but to the the other disputed things I cannot put a word). Gubbubu 09:07, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
This seems pretty easy to resolve -- the doping scandal is obviously off-topic here, and should be deleted. The atheism sentence just needs to be rephrased. How about "After his return to politics, Gyurcsány was at first tight-lipped about his religious affiliation. This lead many to assume, on the basis of his past as a KISZ leader, that he is an atheist." Of course, it would be good to cite a reference for this. -- Zsebenci Klopédia 10:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Someone with an edit right please search for the link to University of Budapest and change it to Eötvös Loránd University. Thanks, Kuteni 19:38, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
This article is currently in the category fraudsters, but does not contain referenced information to support this claim, as required by Wikipedia:Categorization and Wikipedia:Categorization of people, and especially the non-negotiable Wikipedia: Biographies of living persons policy. I'm going to remove the category for the time being, although I will happily replace it if a source can be provided showing that this person has committed fraud. Natalie 21:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Added info on how communists used dynasty-building as a way to save stolen wealth and influence throughout the democratic transition and gain back rule a dozen years later. Gyurcsany's second and current marriage is such a prime example of this "social networking" tactic it's already written about in books discussing the modern age communist movements.
The bulgarian and russian ties of Gyurcsany and his works all point to the Kremlin's desire to reclaim Hungary into the eastern bloc, as re-emerging Russia constructs the belt of "satellite states" once again. Communists throughout eastern and central Europe are eager to assist and the same fate may await Slovakia. The rumanians and the polish are luckily to much russophobic to be tricked by the kremlin's servants. 91.82.243.75 ( talk) 13:17, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, but I suggest the string 'the MSZP; in fact not Socialist but Social Democratic' to be deleted. There is no reference why the editor tried to dispute or overrule the party's own self-designation.
As a matter of fact MSZP does not look like a democratic party when
- winning the elections ('06) with withheld information about the actual budget deficit and denial of future plans on social policy (for references see the main article)
- using the police to attack also the peaceful demonstrators and then praising the police that hit everybody on the streets (the young, the old, even some tourists) (deleted post of the Gyurcsány-blog, quoted on many websites, http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyurcs%C3%A1ny_Ferenc#Szem.C3.A9lye_k.C3.B6r.C3.BCli_konfliktusok)
- staying stubbornly in office after the series of proof that the society is against their policy ( http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006-os_magyarorsz%C3%A1gi_%C3%B6nkorm%C3%A1nyzati_v%C3%A1laszt%C3%A1sok#Eredm.C3.A9nyek, http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008-as_magyarorsz%C3%A1gi_n%C3%A9pszavaz%C3%A1s#Eredm.C3.A9nyek, http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009-es_eur%C3%B3pai_parlamenti_v%C3%A1laszt%C3%A1s_Magyarorsz%C3%A1gon#Eredm.C3.A9nyek)
- not inviting (in fact banning) an opposition-oriented TV-channel to their press conference ( http://www.hirtv.net/filmek/civil0402.wmv)
- ...
There are three unjustified statements here.
1) "his legitimacy is highly controversial" Not true. As I corrected, his legitimacy is permanently questioned by his opposition. Distinction is important and very clear. 2) "expressed denial of his plans on social policy" Not referenced. The video (in Hungarian) only proves that Gyurcsány denied planning certain measures in the 2006 campain. This cannot be a source to prove that actually he had that plan but denied having it. 3) "the only Prime Minister of Hungarian history..." There is no source. The only reference here is Wikipedia itself which is not a source ever.
-- peyerk ( talk) 18:45, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
What does the above (last sentence in the article's second para) actually mean? The citation goes directly to a video, which doesn't help. I know the dictionary definition (to make relative) but it's not exactly in common usage; could someone please reword this to be clearer (and slightly less POV)? 86.143.51.126 ( talk) 15:32, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.politics.hu/20140114/opposition-leaders-agree-on-joint-list-for-general-election/ http://www.politics.hu/20140114/quotable-antal-rogan-on-the-opposition-coalition/ http://www.politics.hu/20130910/opposition-dk-socialist-election-talks-election-break-down/ http://www.politics.hu/20120917/former-pm-urges-opposition-to-step-up-protest-against-voter-registration/ http://www.politics.hu/20120913/mszp-must-nominate-pm-name-allies-by-late-2013-says-socialist-board-chairman/ http://www.politics.hu/20120914/jobbik-dubs-gyurcsany-hunger-strike-phoney-and-hypocritical-trumps-it-with-hot-meal-handouts/ http://www.politics.hu/20120910/former-pm-gyurcsany-on-week-long-hunger-strike-over-fidesz-voter-registration-plan/ http://www.politics.hu/20120911/gyurcsany-hunger-strike-party-ordered-to-pay-huf-132000-for-occupying-area-outside-parliament/ http://www.politics.hu/20101115/senior-socialist-sends-guarded-signals-about-expm-gyurcsany/ http://www.politics.hu/20110112/socialists-reportedly-to-assess-former-pms-party-wing-in-february/ http://www.politics.hu/20110218/top-socialist-says-former-pm-gyurcsany-should-leave-party-rather-than-ruining-mszp/ http://www.politics.hu/20110519/socialist-platforms-discuss-future-strategy/ http://www.politics.hu/20111022/gyurcsany-announces-departure-from-socialists-formation-of-new-western-civic-center-left-party/ http://www.politics.hu/20101007/gyurcsany-to-form-socialist-faction/ http://www.politics.hu/20101022/gyurcsanys-new-faction-forms-today/. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Psychonaut ( talk) 19:44, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.
The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.
Please help us determine consensus on this issue. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 09:17, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ferenc Gyurcsány/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Gyurcsány is NOT an entrepreneur as stated by the author. Gyurcsány would never have got where he is today without making use of the contacts and the support base of the [ Apró] Clan that he married into. HVG - Index.hu. =187&cid=134076 FigyelőNet |
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC)