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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 October 2020 and 12 December 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Brynneparkman. Peer reviewers:
Alexmolini,
Nanhezhu.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 21:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The article referencing a statement from Mufaddal Saifuddin is pointing to a non existing link at http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/Article.aspx?eid=31804&articlexml=CLARIFING-HIS-STAND-Circumcision-a-religious-rite-but-07062016008042 : 'The spiritual leader of the Dawoodi Bohra, Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin, has stated that male and female circumcision (respectively khatna and khafz) are required as "acts of religious purity".[3]'
The only other related source, albeit from the same author on the same network but a different URL, is only liberally "interpreting" Mufaddal's statements ( https://timesofindia.com/city/mumbai/Bohra-cleric-urges-female-genital-mutilation/articleshow/52031699.cms), and kind of "putting words in to his mouth". Also, the article fails to link to the alleged "viral audio clip" and so, it is hard to unambiguously confirm that Mufaddal "stated" anything at all the way it is claimed to be on this Wikipedia page.
I'm going to remove the blatant misdirection from this page unless anyone can revive the original source and/or provide evidence beyond doubt about what is being claimed without putting words into anyone's mouths or liberally interpreting anything to suit their personal bias.
Disclaimer: I'm a practising Dawoodi Bohra. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 01:54, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- The statement also emphasized the need to "respect the law of the land"
+ The statement also emphasized the need to "be loyal and law-abiding citizens"
Since, I believe:
1. Respect fails to capture "loyalty"
2. One's a verbatim quote from the referenced article, the other's not, unless I misread or missed something. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 08:18, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Sorry I wasn't elaborate and left it a bit ambiguous there. I meant "respect the law of the land" isn't a hadith (from Mohammed).
> Are you saying another quote from the source (Prophet Mohammed's "be loyal and law-abiding citizens") should replace the text in the article? Why?
Yes, since the "religious obligation" around circumcision also take source from Mohammed, I thought it was only appropriate that it be juxtaposed with another of Mohammed's quote that Jamaat's statement invokes of requiring Muslims to be loyal and law-abiding citizens, too.
> the point of the existing quote is that the statement said that Dawoodi Bohras should respect the law of the land
...which is also a religious obligation precisely because it is a Prophet's hadith. Simply saying "respect law of the land" doesn't quite capture that information, I feel. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 11:40, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- The term khafd is also used to describe the practice.
I think the statement should be merged with the preceding statement which goes "in a form known as khatna or khafz involving the total or partial removal of the clitoral hood" as:
+ in a form known as khatna, khafd, or khafz involving the total or partial removal of the clitoral hood
Thoughts?
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Female_genital_mutilation_in_India&diff=prev&oldid=956773093 Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 08:23, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Julios' book has this statement which I quoted "The ban on female circumcision violates the religious rights of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim sect whose religious beliefs explicitly forbid human mutilation of any form and whose form of female circumcision ranges from no excision of the prepuce (clitoral hood), in the case where the prepuce is too small, to a maximum excision of 1 to 2 mm."
I don't see what's vague about it? To me, it is pretty clear indication of what's required by "religious practice" as mandated by the Dawoodi Bohra clergy. I request a "citation" for "total removal of clitoral hood" as a mandated religious practice among the Dawoodi Bohras because, I feel, someone well-versed in religious jurisprudence on matters concerning the Dawoodi Bohra faith needs to be on-record (there do exist independent experts like Farhad Daftary, for instance, who could verify this) that total excision of clitoral hood is mandated on religious grounds. I don't see that, instead, I see citations from interviews from Dawoodi Bohra women and comments left on an online forum complaining about Type 1b or Type 2 or other forms of FGM they have had to go through, which though reprehensible is also insufficient in proving what's actually "mandated" by the faith itself.
On the topic of vagueness: The opening statement in the Occurrence section, "FGM is practised by the Dawoodi Bohra", is what I'd call vague, since FGM is an umbrella term and what Dawoodi Bohras practice specifically is classified under Type 1a (and I cited source for it in the diff that was reverted).
Ref: https://dbwrf.org/press_details/125 Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 12:04, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Film on FGM
Remove: "Based on this pending case[35]" Because: nothing of the sort in the cited source: https://archive.is/KQ2We
Remove: "...which won several accolade and was premier at Jagran Film Festival [37]" Because: Nothing of the sort in the cited source (which is also a garbage source): https://archive.is/C5rwi
Remove: "...at Kanpur, Prayagraj, Varanasi, Gorakhpur, Indore, Jamshedpur, Raipur and Hisar." Because: Uncited.
I intend to WP:BOLD rv the above if this talk topic goes unheeded. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 20:47, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2023 and 22 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
SophL09,
BridgetMn (
article contribs). Peer reviewers:
Wikiassign0923.
— Assignment last updated by Aisnotokay ( talk) 15:26, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
hi, I'm also working on the same class assignment it will be done on December 20th please stop deleting the updated sections. Feel free to work on the article in whatever way you'd like prior to December 20th thanks! SophL09 ( talk) 16:54, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 October 2020 and 12 December 2020. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Brynneparkman. Peer reviewers:
Alexmolini,
Nanhezhu.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 21:08, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
The article referencing a statement from Mufaddal Saifuddin is pointing to a non existing link at http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/Article.aspx?eid=31804&articlexml=CLARIFING-HIS-STAND-Circumcision-a-religious-rite-but-07062016008042 : 'The spiritual leader of the Dawoodi Bohra, Syedna Mufaddal Saifuddin, has stated that male and female circumcision (respectively khatna and khafz) are required as "acts of religious purity".[3]'
The only other related source, albeit from the same author on the same network but a different URL, is only liberally "interpreting" Mufaddal's statements ( https://timesofindia.com/city/mumbai/Bohra-cleric-urges-female-genital-mutilation/articleshow/52031699.cms), and kind of "putting words in to his mouth". Also, the article fails to link to the alleged "viral audio clip" and so, it is hard to unambiguously confirm that Mufaddal "stated" anything at all the way it is claimed to be on this Wikipedia page.
I'm going to remove the blatant misdirection from this page unless anyone can revive the original source and/or provide evidence beyond doubt about what is being claimed without putting words into anyone's mouths or liberally interpreting anything to suit their personal bias.
Disclaimer: I'm a practising Dawoodi Bohra. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 01:54, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- The statement also emphasized the need to "respect the law of the land"
+ The statement also emphasized the need to "be loyal and law-abiding citizens"
Since, I believe:
1. Respect fails to capture "loyalty"
2. One's a verbatim quote from the referenced article, the other's not, unless I misread or missed something. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 08:18, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Sorry I wasn't elaborate and left it a bit ambiguous there. I meant "respect the law of the land" isn't a hadith (from Mohammed).
> Are you saying another quote from the source (Prophet Mohammed's "be loyal and law-abiding citizens") should replace the text in the article? Why?
Yes, since the "religious obligation" around circumcision also take source from Mohammed, I thought it was only appropriate that it be juxtaposed with another of Mohammed's quote that Jamaat's statement invokes of requiring Muslims to be loyal and law-abiding citizens, too.
> the point of the existing quote is that the statement said that Dawoodi Bohras should respect the law of the land
...which is also a religious obligation precisely because it is a Prophet's hadith. Simply saying "respect law of the land" doesn't quite capture that information, I feel. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 11:40, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
- The term khafd is also used to describe the practice.
I think the statement should be merged with the preceding statement which goes "in a form known as khatna or khafz involving the total or partial removal of the clitoral hood" as:
+ in a form known as khatna, khafd, or khafz involving the total or partial removal of the clitoral hood
Thoughts?
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Female_genital_mutilation_in_India&diff=prev&oldid=956773093 Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 08:23, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Julios' book has this statement which I quoted "The ban on female circumcision violates the religious rights of the Dawoodi Bohra Muslim sect whose religious beliefs explicitly forbid human mutilation of any form and whose form of female circumcision ranges from no excision of the prepuce (clitoral hood), in the case where the prepuce is too small, to a maximum excision of 1 to 2 mm."
I don't see what's vague about it? To me, it is pretty clear indication of what's required by "religious practice" as mandated by the Dawoodi Bohra clergy. I request a "citation" for "total removal of clitoral hood" as a mandated religious practice among the Dawoodi Bohras because, I feel, someone well-versed in religious jurisprudence on matters concerning the Dawoodi Bohra faith needs to be on-record (there do exist independent experts like Farhad Daftary, for instance, who could verify this) that total excision of clitoral hood is mandated on religious grounds. I don't see that, instead, I see citations from interviews from Dawoodi Bohra women and comments left on an online forum complaining about Type 1b or Type 2 or other forms of FGM they have had to go through, which though reprehensible is also insufficient in proving what's actually "mandated" by the faith itself.
On the topic of vagueness: The opening statement in the Occurrence section, "FGM is practised by the Dawoodi Bohra", is what I'd call vague, since FGM is an umbrella term and what Dawoodi Bohras practice specifically is classified under Type 1a (and I cited source for it in the diff that was reverted).
Ref: https://dbwrf.org/press_details/125 Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 12:04, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Film on FGM
Remove: "Based on this pending case[35]" Because: nothing of the sort in the cited source: https://archive.is/KQ2We
Remove: "...which won several accolade and was premier at Jagran Film Festival [37]" Because: Nothing of the sort in the cited source (which is also a garbage source): https://archive.is/C5rwi
Remove: "...at Kanpur, Prayagraj, Varanasi, Gorakhpur, Indore, Jamshedpur, Raipur and Hisar." Because: Uncited.
I intend to WP:BOLD rv the above if this talk topic goes unheeded. Murtaza.aliakbar ( talk) 20:47, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 September 2023 and 22 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
SophL09,
BridgetMn (
article contribs). Peer reviewers:
Wikiassign0923.
— Assignment last updated by Aisnotokay ( talk) 15:26, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
hi, I'm also working on the same class assignment it will be done on December 20th please stop deleting the updated sections. Feel free to work on the article in whatever way you'd like prior to December 20th thanks! SophL09 ( talk) 16:54, 17 November 2023 (UTC)