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Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
While this may be true, I really don't think "Over the next few years, the Nutrition Foundation funded and designed several small studies carefully crafted to show that the diet produced little effect" violates the NPOV principle but I am not sure how to recast that. It's an accusation of deliberate bias, rather than something really proven. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.184.41.200 ( talk) 22:29, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
You may wonder, why is the citeneeded tag on a spot where there are a zillion cites? Because it seems that each of those cites are the datapoints on your "graph". However, I'm assuming that none of them draw the exact conclusion you are: that challenge dose is related to response. That's also why the original research tag was put on the "graph". You can't have original research in Wikipedia. It must be published (and backed) by someone else. (See WP:NOR) -- Tmassey 03:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I have added citations ... and more citations. I believe there is no more "original research" or uncited statements in here. If some got by me, please make a note here and I will address them. If not, I propose we could remove the warning on this section that says "This article or section may contain original research or unverified claims." Shulae ( talk) 23:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
A cut-n-paste from something you wrote above:
These studies would be *perfect* for this section! In addition, if you've got non-FA, non-highly-technical websites that outline the above information, that would be *fantastic*. -- Tmassey 00:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
I just read an article showing that food colouring increases hyperactive behaviour(1), and it refers to a 2004 meta-analysis which shows a similar sized effect.(2)
(1)Donna McCann; et al. (2007). "Food additives and hyperactive behaviour in 3-year-old and 8/9-year-old children in the community: a randomised, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trial". The Lancet. in press. {{
cite journal}}
: Explicit use of et al. in: |author=
(
help)
(2)Schab DW, Trinh NH (2004). "Do artificial food colors promote hyperactivity in children with hyperactive syndromes? A meta-analysis of double-blind placebo-controlled trials". Journal of developmental and behavioral pediatrics : JDBP. 25 (6): 423–34. PMID 15613992.
This is partly relevant, because although they did not investigate the effect of a withdrawal diet, they did show that food colouring has an effect. I haven't had time to properly discuss the research, but I have noted the articles. The whole "research" section needs a rewrite, though. Someday I'll get around to it. -- Slashme 05:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Food Additives and Hyperactivity, Again! mentions this article. Please look into the concerns raised in that news article. -- Jreferee ( Talk) 05:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
This "diet" removes necessary vitamins and minerals from a growing child’s diet. Information needs to circulate that lets responsible parents know to never allow this diet for their children. As a Doctor myself I have seen many children who are malnourished and under weight on this farce of a program. I will repeat myself and say to please post a warning on this "diet" that it is VERY VERY unhealthy, and traumatizes children, to the point where they are afraid to eat anything.. Beware this is a quack diet!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.46.144 ( talk) 12:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I find it shocking that we live in a world where you cannot trust anyone and we all know how man is ready to hurt another man for money. And then we even refuse to believe someone who is warning us of such inhumanity in his research, and instead trust companies that produce these cheap synthetic additives, reaping huge profits at the cost of our health. This wikipedia article is an eye opener.
Correction: Both apples and oranges(both containing salycilates) are eliminated during a Feingold diet, see http://www.feingold.org/diet/ShoppingGuide.pdf for a clear listing. This listing still contains items with low amounts of salicylates but eliminates the most important ones. If parents do not consult a dietist to form a healthy diet for their child then that's a)their fault, b)their doctor's fault; and c) the fault of this shopping guide for not mentioning it in the introduction and instead expecting stupid people miraculously think of it by themselves. Conclussion: the items allowed by the Feingold diet are more than rich enough to form a healthy varied diet, parents need to consult a specialist to form a healthy diet with them though. If your dietist is an idiot show him this http://salicylatesensitivity.com/recipes/.-- 77.109.124.241 ( talk) 23:51, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
For some reason this footnotes wants to be a template. I must have done something wrong - help? It is simply intended to reference the Program Handbook, with a page number, as a footnote. Shulae ( talk) 22:35, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
The following sentence is problematic: A new study by British researchers led by Jim Stevenson (University of Southampton) appear to confirm his theory but some other previous studies did not according to Reuters (2007).
Whose theory is being confirmed here? what previous studies? Reuters? What kind of a citation is this? I will not take it out today because perhaps somebody actually has some good information relating to it .... but at least I would like to update the sentence with a proper citation for the study, and to add the AAP Grand Rounds analysis. Shulae ( talk) 22:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
The WPMED project is talking about starting a new article, Elimination diet. If you have an interest in this and would like to help, please feel free to join in. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 01:12, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Upon perusing the NPOV rules and finding the problem sentence pointed out in this talk page, in which it is assumed that the Nutrition Foundation purposely biased their studies (in spite of citing two other sources who published articles claiming the same thing, this could be considered a one-sided statement), so I changed the statement to simply indicate that they funded and designed studies which concluded there was little support for the diet. I have therefore removed the NPOV notice and hope that this resolves this problem. Shulae ( talk) 22:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
I find that the NPOV is obviously unmet; albeit, (probably) inadvertently. see e.g. "Adding to the confusion is the assumption that the National Advisory Committee is a governmental agency rather than an arm of industry." This sentence, and many others like it, is poorly constructed and confusing. I think the bulk of this entry needs to be revised. Or, maybe entirely re-written. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Hamilcarbarca420 (
talk •
contribs) 00:53, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Agree on the need for a rewrite. It seems to have attempted to solve the NPOV by flip-flopping between points of view, and reading the more scientific statements the use of citations seems overboard. For example, "Treating multiple symptoms" actually fails to address the question effectively at all, but has a massive number of citations at its end. Certainly one of the studies has proposed a mechanism or two for how it works, if it did find it isn't the placebo effect? Since it's an elimination diet, certainly somebody must have tested the 'kitchen sink' theory (lack of selectivity), rate of comorbidity (which certainly would justify a kitchen sink approach to elimination), no less the possibility that one or more of the things eliminated from the diet is flat-out toxic to children. One hopes that the possibility of the effects being due to improved nutrition has been checked, as well, since that certainly would be an important thing to check. This is a persistent problem, too; certainly somebody supporting the diet would have wanted to know the evidence for the pattern of exclusions, yet there seems rather little explanation to be had. Perhaps one of the cited articles in the history section would supply the answer, but it ought to be in the article itself. 24.167.165.202 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC).
Most of this article rather blatantly violates NPOV. Every argument against the diet is accompanied by a litany of weasel-words/phrases in order to marginalize it, a fair amount of supporting evidence is under-cited (or not at all), and in general it all sounds more or less like an infomercial. And that's not counting the last section, which is arguably advertisement, and definitely un-encyclopedic. Needs a full rewrite. Drake144 ( talk) 11:51, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Shulae is the "Webmaster" for the Feingold Association and a major contributor to this article. Fairly cut-and-dry case of COI. Drake144 ( talk) 12:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
"1. Avoid editing or exercise great caution when editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with Why we recommend this: When people are very close to a subject, their view of it might be distorted, despite the best will in the world. Their closeness might cause them to see the subject in a more (or less) flattering light than the independent, reliable sources do. Wikipedia wants to reflect the sources' views, not the personal views of individual editors."
The reason they use "recommend" is because, yes, the entire ethos of Wikipedia is that "anyone can edit" it. But if someone close to the subject absolutely must be involved, they've got to be painstakingly careful to remain neutral and encyclopedic.
Needs a very, very thorough revision, if not a complete rewrite. Drake144 ( talk) 13:34, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that the NIH link was broken, so I have replaced it with one that works. The Arnold link was restricted, which I don't understand. I am, however, familiar with the study. It is about "alternative" treatments for adults with ADHD, and in it he says, "Oligoantigenic (few-foods) diets . . . do not appear promising for adults." He explained to me in a personal communication that this conclusion was based, not on a study showing lack of effect, but on the lack of any study on the effect of diet on adults. Considering this explanation, the article is not relevant. I am replacing it with his article on children and alternative treatments, which he prepared under contract with the NIH for their 1998 Consensus Development Conference, and it was later published on its own as well. Shulae ( talk) 07:27, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
While this may be true, I really don't think "Over the next few years, the Nutrition Foundation funded and designed several small studies carefully crafted to show that the diet produced little effect" violates the NPOV principle but I am not sure how to recast that. It's an accusation of deliberate bias, rather than something really proven. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.184.41.200 ( talk) 22:29, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
You may wonder, why is the citeneeded tag on a spot where there are a zillion cites? Because it seems that each of those cites are the datapoints on your "graph". However, I'm assuming that none of them draw the exact conclusion you are: that challenge dose is related to response. That's also why the original research tag was put on the "graph". You can't have original research in Wikipedia. It must be published (and backed) by someone else. (See WP:NOR) -- Tmassey 03:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I have added citations ... and more citations. I believe there is no more "original research" or uncited statements in here. If some got by me, please make a note here and I will address them. If not, I propose we could remove the warning on this section that says "This article or section may contain original research or unverified claims." Shulae ( talk) 23:22, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
A cut-n-paste from something you wrote above:
These studies would be *perfect* for this section! In addition, if you've got non-FA, non-highly-technical websites that outline the above information, that would be *fantastic*. -- Tmassey 00:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
I just read an article showing that food colouring increases hyperactive behaviour(1), and it refers to a 2004 meta-analysis which shows a similar sized effect.(2)
(1)Donna McCann; et al. (2007). "Food additives and hyperactive behaviour in 3-year-old and 8/9-year-old children in the community: a randomised, double-blinded, placebo-controlled trial". The Lancet. in press. {{
cite journal}}
: Explicit use of et al. in: |author=
(
help)
(2)Schab DW, Trinh NH (2004). "Do artificial food colors promote hyperactivity in children with hyperactive syndromes? A meta-analysis of double-blind placebo-controlled trials". Journal of developmental and behavioral pediatrics : JDBP. 25 (6): 423–34. PMID 15613992.
This is partly relevant, because although they did not investigate the effect of a withdrawal diet, they did show that food colouring has an effect. I haven't had time to properly discuss the research, but I have noted the articles. The whole "research" section needs a rewrite, though. Someday I'll get around to it. -- Slashme 05:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Food Additives and Hyperactivity, Again! mentions this article. Please look into the concerns raised in that news article. -- Jreferee ( Talk) 05:21, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
This "diet" removes necessary vitamins and minerals from a growing child’s diet. Information needs to circulate that lets responsible parents know to never allow this diet for their children. As a Doctor myself I have seen many children who are malnourished and under weight on this farce of a program. I will repeat myself and say to please post a warning on this "diet" that it is VERY VERY unhealthy, and traumatizes children, to the point where they are afraid to eat anything.. Beware this is a quack diet!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.53.46.144 ( talk) 12:32, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
I find it shocking that we live in a world where you cannot trust anyone and we all know how man is ready to hurt another man for money. And then we even refuse to believe someone who is warning us of such inhumanity in his research, and instead trust companies that produce these cheap synthetic additives, reaping huge profits at the cost of our health. This wikipedia article is an eye opener.
Correction: Both apples and oranges(both containing salycilates) are eliminated during a Feingold diet, see http://www.feingold.org/diet/ShoppingGuide.pdf for a clear listing. This listing still contains items with low amounts of salicylates but eliminates the most important ones. If parents do not consult a dietist to form a healthy diet for their child then that's a)their fault, b)their doctor's fault; and c) the fault of this shopping guide for not mentioning it in the introduction and instead expecting stupid people miraculously think of it by themselves. Conclussion: the items allowed by the Feingold diet are more than rich enough to form a healthy varied diet, parents need to consult a specialist to form a healthy diet with them though. If your dietist is an idiot show him this http://salicylatesensitivity.com/recipes/.-- 77.109.124.241 ( talk) 23:51, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
For some reason this footnotes wants to be a template. I must have done something wrong - help? It is simply intended to reference the Program Handbook, with a page number, as a footnote. Shulae ( talk) 22:35, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
The following sentence is problematic: A new study by British researchers led by Jim Stevenson (University of Southampton) appear to confirm his theory but some other previous studies did not according to Reuters (2007).
Whose theory is being confirmed here? what previous studies? Reuters? What kind of a citation is this? I will not take it out today because perhaps somebody actually has some good information relating to it .... but at least I would like to update the sentence with a proper citation for the study, and to add the AAP Grand Rounds analysis. Shulae ( talk) 22:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
The WPMED project is talking about starting a new article, Elimination diet. If you have an interest in this and would like to help, please feel free to join in. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 01:12, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Upon perusing the NPOV rules and finding the problem sentence pointed out in this talk page, in which it is assumed that the Nutrition Foundation purposely biased their studies (in spite of citing two other sources who published articles claiming the same thing, this could be considered a one-sided statement), so I changed the statement to simply indicate that they funded and designed studies which concluded there was little support for the diet. I have therefore removed the NPOV notice and hope that this resolves this problem. Shulae ( talk) 22:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
I find that the NPOV is obviously unmet; albeit, (probably) inadvertently. see e.g. "Adding to the confusion is the assumption that the National Advisory Committee is a governmental agency rather than an arm of industry." This sentence, and many others like it, is poorly constructed and confusing. I think the bulk of this entry needs to be revised. Or, maybe entirely re-written. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Hamilcarbarca420 (
talk •
contribs) 00:53, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
Agree on the need for a rewrite. It seems to have attempted to solve the NPOV by flip-flopping between points of view, and reading the more scientific statements the use of citations seems overboard. For example, "Treating multiple symptoms" actually fails to address the question effectively at all, but has a massive number of citations at its end. Certainly one of the studies has proposed a mechanism or two for how it works, if it did find it isn't the placebo effect? Since it's an elimination diet, certainly somebody must have tested the 'kitchen sink' theory (lack of selectivity), rate of comorbidity (which certainly would justify a kitchen sink approach to elimination), no less the possibility that one or more of the things eliminated from the diet is flat-out toxic to children. One hopes that the possibility of the effects being due to improved nutrition has been checked, as well, since that certainly would be an important thing to check. This is a persistent problem, too; certainly somebody supporting the diet would have wanted to know the evidence for the pattern of exclusions, yet there seems rather little explanation to be had. Perhaps one of the cited articles in the history section would supply the answer, but it ought to be in the article itself. 24.167.165.202 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC).
Most of this article rather blatantly violates NPOV. Every argument against the diet is accompanied by a litany of weasel-words/phrases in order to marginalize it, a fair amount of supporting evidence is under-cited (or not at all), and in general it all sounds more or less like an infomercial. And that's not counting the last section, which is arguably advertisement, and definitely un-encyclopedic. Needs a full rewrite. Drake144 ( talk) 11:51, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
Shulae is the "Webmaster" for the Feingold Association and a major contributor to this article. Fairly cut-and-dry case of COI. Drake144 ( talk) 12:15, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
"1. Avoid editing or exercise great caution when editing articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with Why we recommend this: When people are very close to a subject, their view of it might be distorted, despite the best will in the world. Their closeness might cause them to see the subject in a more (or less) flattering light than the independent, reliable sources do. Wikipedia wants to reflect the sources' views, not the personal views of individual editors."
The reason they use "recommend" is because, yes, the entire ethos of Wikipedia is that "anyone can edit" it. But if someone close to the subject absolutely must be involved, they've got to be painstakingly careful to remain neutral and encyclopedic.
Needs a very, very thorough revision, if not a complete rewrite. Drake144 ( talk) 13:34, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I noticed that the NIH link was broken, so I have replaced it with one that works. The Arnold link was restricted, which I don't understand. I am, however, familiar with the study. It is about "alternative" treatments for adults with ADHD, and in it he says, "Oligoantigenic (few-foods) diets . . . do not appear promising for adults." He explained to me in a personal communication that this conclusion was based, not on a study showing lack of effect, but on the lack of any study on the effect of diet on adults. Considering this explanation, the article is not relevant. I am replacing it with his article on children and alternative treatments, which he prepared under contract with the NIH for their 1998 Consensus Development Conference, and it was later published on its own as well. Shulae ( talk) 07:27, 9 August 2011 (UTC)