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Here are some relevant USSC cases that may be of interest but aren't mentioned yet:
[1] [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher Parham ( talk • contribs) 16:49, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
I would edit your cool links in but sadly I can't because some vandal locked the article against editing.
Anyway, I'll just stick your links underneath my post till we need them to plug up a leak or poultice a wound. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctor Phen ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
"The Anti-Federalist belief that the wide disparity in the economic interests of the various states would lead to controversy was not without merit."
how does an article become featured at wikipedia with such blatant POV? it's doubly heinous because it comes from the usual, popular position that the federalists sit at the right hand of god, and that apologies must be made for the anti-federalists. the beneficent wikipedia voice allows that the anti-federalist position was not without merit. thanks. this is unattributed analysis and put-down of the worst sort. i would have removed it immediately were the article not locked. popular does not equal NPOV. most wikipedia articles about the founding of the united states (or of popular U.S. politicians) are biased by inborn reverence — a point of view. Wbfl 07:20, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
unwarranted protection of an article linked from Main Page can be discouraging for new users. -- 81.154.236.221 15:24, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
are editors of this page actually fooled by simulated NPOV such as, "The Anti-Federalist belief that the wide disparity in the economic interests of the various states would lead to controversy was not without merit. Many today attribute the American Civil War most fundamentally to this disparity."?
translated out of its weasel-worded, apologetic morass, it reads, "The American Civil War proved correct the Anti-Federalist belief that the wide disparity in the economic interests of the various states would lead to controversy."
have the nerve to write that straight out, or strike this weasely POV. "many today"? "not without merit"? have the authors and acceptors of this type of material actually read the wikipedia guidelines and policies? do links need to be provided? those two abominable phrases in a single paragraph are simply attempts to disguise POV. that they persist, to the point where there's a fight between "partly" and "most fundamentally" (i.e., "of the fundamental causes many believe this was the greatest. disagree or not, it can be said that many believe so"), is a bummer. it's just uncited opinion. therefore, it's prohibited. this article should not have been approved for FA status. anybody actually read the peer review archive? one guy with an initial sweep, however dutiful. that's it? embarrassing. wikipedia is broken, and tripping over its own hype. FA status means nothing if this is where it leads. Wbfl 17:36, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Is NPOV possible? I think not, except in the most trivial cases, where consensus on wording is soon reached. In cases that provoke passionate opinions, we have seen that reversion wars almost always ensue. (What happened in the early 20th century between the Ottoman Empire and the Armenians? What is a "war crime", and who has committed one? What is terrorism? What is the nature of the Mormon scriptures; revelation or hoax? What should we call the war that occupied the North and South during Lincoln's presidency? Etc.) Why not, in these cases, have both sides write parallel articles and allow the reader to see arguments on both sides of the controversy, these being notable in their own right. Too Old 07:05, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
This page is the #2 google result for "Federalist No. 10". It seems quite likely that people coming to this page will be looking for the actual text of the document, either to read the text itself or to supplement their reading of this page. Placing a link to the text near the top of the article adds convenience for these readers, and so makes this page more useful for our readers. I am a bit confused as to why it breaks your browser at the top of the page but not at the bottom, but presumably we can fix that somehow. What exactly is the problem it causes? P.S. apologies for marking as minor, was an accident Christopher Parham (talk) 00:28, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
I am sure my comment here will be deleted, but this article is a great example of how wikipedia is all about the establishment POV. Wiki is stridently federalist and hence rightwing. This entire article is really just nonsense. Fed 10 and the other madison articles were about INCREASING THE NUMBER OF FACTIONS in each political district in order to prevent the MAJORITY faction from uniting to discover their common interest. Madison was all about increasing the factionalization of the voters by making the voting districts larger, and thus making it harder for the people to unite against rich aristocrats like Madison. Madison and his fellow rich founding fathers did not want us commoners using the power of the vote to increase taxes on the rich. Madison said at the constitutional convention that our present constittution was designed to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. OPulent here means rich. So the founding fathers created an undemocratic constitution that increased the numbers of factions in the nation and each state by increasing the size of the political districts that politician were elected from (the president and the senate are the prime examples here). So that way it was harder for the faction of the majority to unite against the propertied elite like Madison, Jefferson, et al. Madison wanted to make it hard for you and me to unite and use taxation to get our grubby little paws on his $$$.
of course the rightwing American instittutions like academia, GOP, Democrats, mass media etc will never talk about this directly. They just put a few words out there, cheery pick a few words, leave them out of context, rarely connect them. And Wikipedia follows right along. Otherwise, if they did explain what the Founding Fathers and Madison really did, they would not get media attention, and they could not "monetize" wikipedia in the future....
Look for this entry to be deleted by the wikipedians real soon.
If you want to verify want I say, just google up Dr Fresia's online book TOWARD AN AMERICAN REVOLUTION and online reviews of Dr Woody Holton's recent books. Or just read the federalist papers written by Madison and read Madison's notes from the COnstitutional convention. Read it all really slowly and carefully.
-cryofan — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
64.123.205.74 (
talk •
contribs)
16:55, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
This is truly an interesting article, and I have enjoyed reading it. I must say, however, that the section Madison's arguments could use a re-write for sentence structure and style. I'd love to be bold and dive in, but an author with more knowledge on the essay would be a better choice. A specific note: Madison "contends that there are two ways to remove the causes that provoke the development of factions". The text of the article never explicitly identifies the first... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.170.97.116 ( talk • contribs) 11:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Someone seems to be censoring an actual link to the Federalist Paper No.10, which leaves only links to the Brutus and Cato papers, which are Anti-Federalist. This look politically motivated to me. People seem to want readers to read Brutus no.1 think it is Federalist Paper no.10 and be convinced that Madison held the Anti-Federalist views contained within. Highly recommend someone intervene to create a link to the text of Federalist Paper No.10 rather than allow this to continue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.163.127 ( talk • contribs) 04:22, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
This article could use some improvements to meet the current Featured article criteria. I would be willing to identify some of these deficiencies. However, if they aren't addressed here it should be addressed in the form of WP:FAR, and give the article a more thorough overall review. Brad ( talk) 08:21, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Article mentions twelve states ("the constitution drafted by the convention needed ratification by at least nine of the twelve states").
Shouldn't that be thirteen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulf Hermjakob ( talk • contribs) 04:29, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Made that change in main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulf Hermjakob ( talk • contribs) 04:52, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
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The following paragraph says "citation needed" at the end.
No. 10 addresses the question of how to reconcile citizens with interests contrary to the rights of others or inimical to the interests of the community as a whole. Madison saw factions as inevitable due to the nature of man – that is, as long as men hold differing opinions, have differing amounts of wealth and own differing amount of property, they will continue to form alliances with people who are most similar to them and they will sometimes work against the public interest and infringe upon the rights of others. He thus questions how to guard against those dangers.[citation needed]
Not sure whether this could be used as a citation, but give it a look and if it's a valid citation, please feel free to add it. I would hate to incorrectly edit it just to have the edit removed.
https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24671 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wbenton ( talk • contribs) 05:31, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
![]() | Federalist No. 10 is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 19, 2005. | |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Here are some relevant USSC cases that may be of interest but aren't mentioned yet:
[1] [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Christopher Parham ( talk • contribs) 16:49, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
I would edit your cool links in but sadly I can't because some vandal locked the article against editing.
Anyway, I'll just stick your links underneath my post till we need them to plug up a leak or poultice a wound. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctor Phen ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
"The Anti-Federalist belief that the wide disparity in the economic interests of the various states would lead to controversy was not without merit."
how does an article become featured at wikipedia with such blatant POV? it's doubly heinous because it comes from the usual, popular position that the federalists sit at the right hand of god, and that apologies must be made for the anti-federalists. the beneficent wikipedia voice allows that the anti-federalist position was not without merit. thanks. this is unattributed analysis and put-down of the worst sort. i would have removed it immediately were the article not locked. popular does not equal NPOV. most wikipedia articles about the founding of the united states (or of popular U.S. politicians) are biased by inborn reverence — a point of view. Wbfl 07:20, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
unwarranted protection of an article linked from Main Page can be discouraging for new users. -- 81.154.236.221 15:24, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
are editors of this page actually fooled by simulated NPOV such as, "The Anti-Federalist belief that the wide disparity in the economic interests of the various states would lead to controversy was not without merit. Many today attribute the American Civil War most fundamentally to this disparity."?
translated out of its weasel-worded, apologetic morass, it reads, "The American Civil War proved correct the Anti-Federalist belief that the wide disparity in the economic interests of the various states would lead to controversy."
have the nerve to write that straight out, or strike this weasely POV. "many today"? "not without merit"? have the authors and acceptors of this type of material actually read the wikipedia guidelines and policies? do links need to be provided? those two abominable phrases in a single paragraph are simply attempts to disguise POV. that they persist, to the point where there's a fight between "partly" and "most fundamentally" (i.e., "of the fundamental causes many believe this was the greatest. disagree or not, it can be said that many believe so"), is a bummer. it's just uncited opinion. therefore, it's prohibited. this article should not have been approved for FA status. anybody actually read the peer review archive? one guy with an initial sweep, however dutiful. that's it? embarrassing. wikipedia is broken, and tripping over its own hype. FA status means nothing if this is where it leads. Wbfl 17:36, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
Is NPOV possible? I think not, except in the most trivial cases, where consensus on wording is soon reached. In cases that provoke passionate opinions, we have seen that reversion wars almost always ensue. (What happened in the early 20th century between the Ottoman Empire and the Armenians? What is a "war crime", and who has committed one? What is terrorism? What is the nature of the Mormon scriptures; revelation or hoax? What should we call the war that occupied the North and South during Lincoln's presidency? Etc.) Why not, in these cases, have both sides write parallel articles and allow the reader to see arguments on both sides of the controversy, these being notable in their own right. Too Old 07:05, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
This page is the #2 google result for "Federalist No. 10". It seems quite likely that people coming to this page will be looking for the actual text of the document, either to read the text itself or to supplement their reading of this page. Placing a link to the text near the top of the article adds convenience for these readers, and so makes this page more useful for our readers. I am a bit confused as to why it breaks your browser at the top of the page but not at the bottom, but presumably we can fix that somehow. What exactly is the problem it causes? P.S. apologies for marking as minor, was an accident Christopher Parham (talk) 00:28, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
I am sure my comment here will be deleted, but this article is a great example of how wikipedia is all about the establishment POV. Wiki is stridently federalist and hence rightwing. This entire article is really just nonsense. Fed 10 and the other madison articles were about INCREASING THE NUMBER OF FACTIONS in each political district in order to prevent the MAJORITY faction from uniting to discover their common interest. Madison was all about increasing the factionalization of the voters by making the voting districts larger, and thus making it harder for the people to unite against rich aristocrats like Madison. Madison and his fellow rich founding fathers did not want us commoners using the power of the vote to increase taxes on the rich. Madison said at the constitutional convention that our present constittution was designed to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. OPulent here means rich. So the founding fathers created an undemocratic constitution that increased the numbers of factions in the nation and each state by increasing the size of the political districts that politician were elected from (the president and the senate are the prime examples here). So that way it was harder for the faction of the majority to unite against the propertied elite like Madison, Jefferson, et al. Madison wanted to make it hard for you and me to unite and use taxation to get our grubby little paws on his $$$.
of course the rightwing American instittutions like academia, GOP, Democrats, mass media etc will never talk about this directly. They just put a few words out there, cheery pick a few words, leave them out of context, rarely connect them. And Wikipedia follows right along. Otherwise, if they did explain what the Founding Fathers and Madison really did, they would not get media attention, and they could not "monetize" wikipedia in the future....
Look for this entry to be deleted by the wikipedians real soon.
If you want to verify want I say, just google up Dr Fresia's online book TOWARD AN AMERICAN REVOLUTION and online reviews of Dr Woody Holton's recent books. Or just read the federalist papers written by Madison and read Madison's notes from the COnstitutional convention. Read it all really slowly and carefully.
-cryofan — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
64.123.205.74 (
talk •
contribs)
16:55, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
This is truly an interesting article, and I have enjoyed reading it. I must say, however, that the section Madison's arguments could use a re-write for sentence structure and style. I'd love to be bold and dive in, but an author with more knowledge on the essay would be a better choice. A specific note: Madison "contends that there are two ways to remove the causes that provoke the development of factions". The text of the article never explicitly identifies the first... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.170.97.116 ( talk • contribs) 11:10, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Someone seems to be censoring an actual link to the Federalist Paper No.10, which leaves only links to the Brutus and Cato papers, which are Anti-Federalist. This look politically motivated to me. People seem to want readers to read Brutus no.1 think it is Federalist Paper no.10 and be convinced that Madison held the Anti-Federalist views contained within. Highly recommend someone intervene to create a link to the text of Federalist Paper No.10 rather than allow this to continue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.148.163.127 ( talk • contribs) 04:22, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
This article could use some improvements to meet the current Featured article criteria. I would be willing to identify some of these deficiencies. However, if they aren't addressed here it should be addressed in the form of WP:FAR, and give the article a more thorough overall review. Brad ( talk) 08:21, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Article mentions twelve states ("the constitution drafted by the convention needed ratification by at least nine of the twelve states").
Shouldn't that be thirteen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulf Hermjakob ( talk • contribs) 04:29, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
Made that change in main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ulf Hermjakob ( talk • contribs) 04:52, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Federalist No. 10. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:47, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
The following paragraph says "citation needed" at the end.
No. 10 addresses the question of how to reconcile citizens with interests contrary to the rights of others or inimical to the interests of the community as a whole. Madison saw factions as inevitable due to the nature of man – that is, as long as men hold differing opinions, have differing amounts of wealth and own differing amount of property, they will continue to form alliances with people who are most similar to them and they will sometimes work against the public interest and infringe upon the rights of others. He thus questions how to guard against those dangers.[citation needed]
Not sure whether this could be used as a citation, but give it a look and if it's a valid citation, please feel free to add it. I would hate to incorrectly edit it just to have the edit removed.
https://teachinghistory.org/history-content/ask-a-historian/24671 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wbenton ( talk • contribs) 05:31, 13 October 2018 (UTC)