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"They oppose all recognition of the Francophone people of Quebec as a nation" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.115.85.176 ( talk) 17:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC) I think that should be replaced with not recognizing the status of Quebec as a nation, because the usual federalist argument against Quebec nationalism is that Quebec as a province is just as linguistically and ethnically divisable as the rest of Canada. Therefore it would hypocracy to give "national status" to the territory itself, that argument does not always boil down to the status of the Quebecois people, or Quebec Francophones. Take for example the recent vote on nation status for the Quebecois people, the vast majority of federalist MPs had no problem at all voting in favour of recognizing the Quebecois people as a nation within Canada. However had the legislation been in favour of recognizing Quebec as a nation, even within Canada I believe it would have been defeated.
So I think that statement should be changed regarding "status-quo" or "Trudeauite" federalists. Does anyone have any objections?
Beyond the Quebec Liberal Party and the Equality Party are there any other federalist parties in Quebec? What about the ADQ? They are not listed as separatist on the sovereignty article, so technically what are they? I know that they compaigned for the Yes side in 1995, but i they took power today what would they do? Also what about the Greens? Technically they are cooperating with the separatist UFP, but aren't they affiliated with the Green Party of Canada and therefor more likely to be federalist?
Is this really the best or most common or most neutral term for this class of federalists?
Google searches:
Quickly scanning through the hits, it seems these terms are used quite differently in English and in French. In English, they are terms of abuse hurled by right-wingers against left-wingers, and they are used when discussing economics, not national unity. In French, they are terms of abuse hurled by sovereigntists against federalists, with little regard to where their opponents sit on the federalist continuum.
It is also interesting (but admittedly not really relevant) that Trudeau himself was not a trudeauist according to the definition given here.
A would suggest that something like "status-quo federalist" would be a better, more neutral term to use in this article, perhaps mentioning that trudeauist is a non-neutral term used by some sovereigntists.-- Indefatigable 15:02, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
This will have to change. To what we don't know, but it is impossible to have a movement for something that already exits.
JillandJack 19:18, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Second, if the term Trudeauism has ever been used by any reputable media outlet, it would only refer to a "saying" etc. No such reference to describe an ideology exits. With 54 hits on Google, it is irrelevant to the world. JillandJack 19:24, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it makes sense to merge Quebec Autonomism with Quebec federalist ideology.
Is said to be autonomiste in Quebec a politician who supports provincial autonomy. Maurice Duplessis and Robert Bourassa would be considered autonomistes. It is implied that they are federalist. However, Trudeau for example, is considered a federalist by most but not a defender of provincial autonomy in general and certainly not a Quebec nationalist (actually it seems he was a right-wing catholic nationalist in his youth).
Both these articles are almost pointless though. Provincial autonomy in Quebec would make for a better article name I think. Federalism in Quebec also seems a better name than Quebec federalist ideology in my opinion. -- Mathieugp 12:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The title "Quebec federalist ideology" seems redundant. Québec Federalism or Québecois Federalism, I think, is a bit clearer. Also, though I personally don't subscribe to the interpretation, I find the word "ideology", in contemporary English, has taken on a pejorative sense in regular usage. Or at the very least, that an 'ideology' implies an 'above normal' level of personal devotion, tending towards fanaticism. Or maybe I've seen too much Fox News...
Either way - what does y'all think?
And - because the word 'Quebec' is a French proper name, shouldn't this article use the 'accent-égu' on the first 'e'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by T noakes ( talk • contribs) 11:20, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
The following quote from the article appears to me as being non-neutral:
"Though the efforts of the Patriotes have been hijacked for contemporary political purposes by the Saint-Jean-Baptiste Society"
This is the statement of an opinion. I personally recommend that it be removed, or that a reputable source be found to support the statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaimonAugustus ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
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"They oppose all recognition of the Francophone people of Quebec as a nation" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.115.85.176 ( talk) 17:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC) I think that should be replaced with not recognizing the status of Quebec as a nation, because the usual federalist argument against Quebec nationalism is that Quebec as a province is just as linguistically and ethnically divisable as the rest of Canada. Therefore it would hypocracy to give "national status" to the territory itself, that argument does not always boil down to the status of the Quebecois people, or Quebec Francophones. Take for example the recent vote on nation status for the Quebecois people, the vast majority of federalist MPs had no problem at all voting in favour of recognizing the Quebecois people as a nation within Canada. However had the legislation been in favour of recognizing Quebec as a nation, even within Canada I believe it would have been defeated.
So I think that statement should be changed regarding "status-quo" or "Trudeauite" federalists. Does anyone have any objections?
Beyond the Quebec Liberal Party and the Equality Party are there any other federalist parties in Quebec? What about the ADQ? They are not listed as separatist on the sovereignty article, so technically what are they? I know that they compaigned for the Yes side in 1995, but i they took power today what would they do? Also what about the Greens? Technically they are cooperating with the separatist UFP, but aren't they affiliated with the Green Party of Canada and therefor more likely to be federalist?
Is this really the best or most common or most neutral term for this class of federalists?
Google searches:
Quickly scanning through the hits, it seems these terms are used quite differently in English and in French. In English, they are terms of abuse hurled by right-wingers against left-wingers, and they are used when discussing economics, not national unity. In French, they are terms of abuse hurled by sovereigntists against federalists, with little regard to where their opponents sit on the federalist continuum.
It is also interesting (but admittedly not really relevant) that Trudeau himself was not a trudeauist according to the definition given here.
A would suggest that something like "status-quo federalist" would be a better, more neutral term to use in this article, perhaps mentioning that trudeauist is a non-neutral term used by some sovereigntists.-- Indefatigable 15:02, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
This will have to change. To what we don't know, but it is impossible to have a movement for something that already exits.
JillandJack 19:18, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Second, if the term Trudeauism has ever been used by any reputable media outlet, it would only refer to a "saying" etc. No such reference to describe an ideology exits. With 54 hits on Google, it is irrelevant to the world. JillandJack 19:24, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it makes sense to merge Quebec Autonomism with Quebec federalist ideology.
Is said to be autonomiste in Quebec a politician who supports provincial autonomy. Maurice Duplessis and Robert Bourassa would be considered autonomistes. It is implied that they are federalist. However, Trudeau for example, is considered a federalist by most but not a defender of provincial autonomy in general and certainly not a Quebec nationalist (actually it seems he was a right-wing catholic nationalist in his youth).
Both these articles are almost pointless though. Provincial autonomy in Quebec would make for a better article name I think. Federalism in Quebec also seems a better name than Quebec federalist ideology in my opinion. -- Mathieugp 12:23, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The title "Quebec federalist ideology" seems redundant. Québec Federalism or Québecois Federalism, I think, is a bit clearer. Also, though I personally don't subscribe to the interpretation, I find the word "ideology", in contemporary English, has taken on a pejorative sense in regular usage. Or at the very least, that an 'ideology' implies an 'above normal' level of personal devotion, tending towards fanaticism. Or maybe I've seen too much Fox News...
Either way - what does y'all think?
And - because the word 'Quebec' is a French proper name, shouldn't this article use the 'accent-égu' on the first 'e'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by T noakes ( talk • contribs) 11:20, 30 October 2010 (UTC)
The following quote from the article appears to me as being non-neutral:
"Though the efforts of the Patriotes have been hijacked for contemporary political purposes by the Saint-Jean-Baptiste Society"
This is the statement of an opinion. I personally recommend that it be removed, or that a reputable source be found to support the statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DaimonAugustus ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 26 October 2011 (UTC)