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In the first section of the article, it is said that Canada a true confederation. Although we use this expression a lot and that provinces actually own stronger autonomy than other subnational juridiction I would not say that canadian provinces have been federated on voluntary basis. The voluntary basis would mean they were independant before. The provinces as they are were either a British colony or a Canadian federal territories before its accession to the federation. Also the concept of voluntary means that they have a self-right to withdraw from the federation. The actual constitution and recent Supreme court of Canada judgemnts on these issue states clearly that the rightful way for a province to seceed would be anegociated constitutional amendment.
I proposed to use the replace the following sentense by the later:
"Some nations with federal systems, such as Switzerland and Canada, are officially confederations, because membership in the federation is voluntary."
"Some nations with federal systems, such as Switzerland and Canada, are officially confederations, because members are formally part of the constitution and could influence its amendment."
Any comments ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrimart ( talk • contribs) 10:57, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Why the heck is there no mention of anarchism and its advocacy of free federations at every level of social organization?
The subheader on European Federalism could really use some work. It makes several rather bold and unsupported statements (Claiming that certain governments favour Federalism, and then going on to claim that the European Defence Organisation was the last attempt to create a Federal Europe... I do not feel qualified enough to make something better right now but it really needs work. I also find it hard to believe that there isn't another page in this entire wiki dealing with European Federalism in a more comprehensive way - Knootoss
This part of the introduction strikes me as "Federalism in Christian Theology". Surely there are other religious points of view about federalism as a whole, whether it is in terms of theology or politics directly. For example, the Baha'i Faith is a religion that has a political concept of federalism and outright calls for worldwide federated government as one of it's central themes. -- djKianoosh, 13 February 2006
"Under a federal system a Constitution is the supreme force from which the state is derived. An independent judiciary is necessary to treat as void every act which is inconsistent with the Constitution. Because of this, federalism is precluded by legalism. The Constitution must necessarily be "rigid" and "inexpansive". Its law must be either legally immutable, or else capable of being changed only by some authority above and beyond the ordinary legislative bodies. The difficulty of altering the constitution tends to produce conservative sentiment" this paragaraph seems broad, unsubstantiated and contray to some of what i know. these are all trends in a federal system but they are not reqirments. Beckboyanch
What's the difference? Hackwrench 19:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Federalism is the idea of a group or body of members that are bound together (latin: foedus, covenant) with a governing representative head.
Imperialism is the idea of a group or body of members that are bound together (latin: foedus, covenant) with a governing representative head.
What's the difference? Hackwrench 19:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Federalism is a group of polities formed from within by their own respectively represented constituencies and in legal unison with similar separate governmental jurisdictions of diversified laws. An empire is formed from without & imposed upon separate territories divorced from the central originating one, and has uniform law across their vassalage. They are almost opposites, but not in any way mutually exclusive. The laws of an empire could be federalized, a federal republic could become an empire. etc. Nagelfar 01:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC) Federalism have the power to counter imperialism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ANISH BANERJEE ( talk • contribs) 15:53, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I just removed some confusing text apparently equating birth with generation and being born again with "regeneration". Anyone want to clarify the concepts? I suspect that someone out there will readd them. Hackwrench 20:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
So Adam the nongenerate is the representative of the generate and Jesus the generate is the representative of the regenerate? Hackwrench 19:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Is theological federalsm an aspect of Covenant Theology or as the article currently says "a synonym for basic Covenant Theology" Hackwrench 16:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Federalism is not just a U.S. phenomenon, for that subject see Federalism (United States). A template on Christian Democracy (placed in the European federalism section; CD politicians were the foundation of federalism in Europe) was removed, and three (count 'em THREE) U.S. law templates have been added. I'm nuking one of them and adding the CD template again. GUÐSÞEGN – U T E X – 04:37, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
It's begging to be split, unless someone can prove that theological and political federalism are really two aspects of the same thing and that we'd lose a lot of continuity by making this a dab. -- Smack ( talk) 22:12, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Not just that, but federalism has so many different aspects it should definitely be split so that the political form is quite clear and then from there it should be split into subheadings such as "Canadian Federalism" and "Federalism in the US. COnstitution.
It may be an idea to divide the page down into the ideological aspects (federalism) and the structural or legal aspects (federation), as per P. King (1982), Federalism and Federation, Croom Helm: London. Although this may be too academic. -- Mccreacr 05:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
This line:
Adolf Hitler viewed federalism as an obstacle, and he wrote in Mein Kampf as follows: "National Socialism must claim the right to impose its principles on the whole German nation, without regard to what were hitherto the confines of federal states."
Is a bit misleading. As the word translated as "federal" is "bundes", wherein if you look at the link on this article page to the German wikipedia, the word is Föderalismus, the German word for Federalism as we use it here is "Föderative", "Bundes" meaning something more akin to a republic system (though often translated as 'federal' as in the federal level of government.) The Reichs-administration in Nazi Germany, partitioning power between gauleiters was very much a federalized type system, the "state-within-a-state" of the bicameral legal rights under SS jurisdiction also had federal characteristics. Nagelfar 01:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
and Bund means in this case Federation (words can mean differnt things in different sitiuations) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.241.36 ( talk) 10:26, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Rather that just providing example of Federalism, it may be helpful to include information about the different types of federalism, such as duel-federalism or marble-cake federalism. The differences between these type of federalism are significant enough to be included in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.220.8 ( talk) 02:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree. The definition of "General Federalism" comes up on the first return from google, so I think it's a valid topic. Some of its parts (like the Public Trust) are being advocated by the Council on Foreign Relations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.53.68.122 ( talk) 23:35, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
I tried to add a link but it was removed. I got back a lot of verbiage about policy. All I know is that this is a valid topic that comes up as the first hit in google and the URL I posted is the canonical definition for the term, so can someone fix this? The definition is on a webpage that is not a commercial or even promoted site. I don't see what in the policy should preclude this ... Also, I have a message from January, 2011. That was not me so I don't know what that means either. Thanks in advance — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.53.68.122 ( talk) 23:41, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
I just read the entire policy and guidelines and there is nothing that corresponds to the link I provided. I have "undone" it and I hope that was the right thing to do - thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.53.68.122 ( talk) 23:58, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Shouldnt Proudhon be considered as one of the theorics of Federalism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.33.225.219 ( talk) 03:00, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
... are, following me the Regions and not the Communities. An evidence of that: the representatives of the Parmliament of the Regions and the Communities, are elected on the base of the territories of the Regions... I think it is difficult to say which are the Major Federate Units. For Flanders evidently, the Community but not for Wallonia and Brussels. José Fontaine ( talk) 20:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Francophonic political parties favour an independent region for Brussels. It is also true to say that the Belgian Federalism is a Federalism with three components: During 18 years [from 1970], Brussels remained without status (...) The explanation of this non-status was the different views of the French-speaking political parties and of the Dutch-speaking political parties: the latter were against the concept of Region (...) the former (...) claimed that Brussels must become a Region equal to the other Regions (...) The Dutch-speaking parties accepted [in 1988] there is a third Region with the same powers as the two other Regions (...) [1]. In this context, before new negotiations in this year about the reformation of the Belgian state,
1. I'm not really sure what it is trying to say. 2. Translated quotes and selective quotations are not generally considered verifiable. 3. If it saying what I think it is, then it is repeating things already in the section. Synchronism ( talk) 00:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
It is possible also that French-speaking Belgians are more aware of that situation (than the Flemings), because, as Walloons, we are for ages in front of this daily claim of the French-speaking people of Brussels (one million): we are speaking French but we are different and we must have our Région à part entière.
References
I added the Importance-sect template, because I feel the paragraph is too long within this article, and goes too much into unnecessary details. -- Luxem ( talk) 10:47, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Brussels is officially a bilingual area, but it has a French-speaking majority.[7] For historical reasons, Dutch-speaking Brusselers are represented on the political level by Flemish politicians, and not by Brussels based Dutch-speaking politicians. Flanders is the region associated with the Belgium's majority Flemish Community (Flemish is a dialect of Dutch). Due to its relatively small size (approximately one percent) the German-speaking Community of Belgium does not have much influence on national politics. Wallonia is a French-speaking area, except for the East Cantons. French is the second most spoken first language in Belgium following a comparable number of Dutch speakers. Within the French-speaking Community of Belgium, there is a geographical and political distinction between Wallonia and Brussels for historical and sociological reasons.[8]
Since the South African constitution guarantees exclusive provincial authority over certain areas (Schedule 5), does this not make the South African system a federal one? The constitution may only be amended with the consent of a super-majority of provinces (6 of 9). How is this different to the United States, albeit that the listed powers of its States are greater and changes to its constitution require a larger super-majority (75%)? See also talk:Unitary state. -- Uxejn ( talk) 16:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
The introduction states that "Some nations with federal systems, such as Switzerland and Canada, are officially confederations, because membership in the federation is voluntary."
Canada is a federation, not a confederation. According to Ronald Watts' Comparing Federal Systems (3rd ed.), confederations "occur where several pre-existing polities join together to form a common government for certain limited purposes ... but the common government is dependent upon the constitutent governments, being composed of delegates from the constitutent governments, and therefore having only an indirect electoral and fiscal base" (p 8). From its federation in 1867 Canada's federal government has had direct taxation powers.
Does anyone have a citation to support the idea espoused in the intro that confederation is defined by voluntary membership?
Please forgive any bungled format in this edit EveryonelovesMP ( talk) 20:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
There was a very interesting editorial published in the Wall Stree Journal on Thursday, April 23, 2009, entitled: "The Case for a Federalism Amendment: How the Tea Partiers can make Washington pay attention." The (currently ungated) link is here: [1]. The story appears to have rather quickly gone viral and their is already an revised draft proposal with ten amendments (versus five in the WSJ editorial) here: [2]. I'm not certain, but I'm guessing this will be sufficiently noteworthy to be worked into the WP Federalism article in the near future. N2e ( talk) 05:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Removed this text:
Similar power-sharing arrangements between two communities can be found in Fiji, Saint Kitts and Nevis, in Northern Ireland (the Belfast Agreement) and in Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol. original research?
The arrangements described above belong in Consociationalism, Fiji and Northern Ireland in particular.
Andrewgdotcom ( talk) 16:06, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
It was first conceived by Lyndon B. Johnson in 1918 as a way to avoid communism, but was then refined by President Taft into what it is now.
^ I've never edited wiki before, but this statement is clearly bullshit. (from the page on federalism) ^Yeah, I'd have to agree with you there... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.132.196 ( talk) 22:54, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Federalism as the Anarchist Mode of Political Organization
"Federalism" if I'm right, used to mean what the anarchists advocated. Can we diversify sources, citations and add more general content? As it stands, it makes the article uglier.-- 66.233.55.145 ( talk) 00:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
I think not. 98.227.88.98 ( talk) 14:20, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Whomever added that bizarre discourse has apparently never studied political science at the university level. Any objections before I take out the garbage? -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 22:23, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
It's not 'babbling'; and I have a DPhil in Politics from the University of Oxford on the subject... If you can tell me how sovereignty, understood as final authority, can be divided between two bodies, then I would be happy for you to remove the third paragraph of the introduction. But if, like me, you find yourself unsure as to how arguments over competences unspecified/unallocated by a written constitution can be resolved between two levels of government, thought to be equally sovereign, without the intervention of a third body (presumably then itself sovereign) then perhaps the text as written should be allowed to stand. The logic of 'divided sovereignty', clearly shown false in the run-up to the US Civil War, seems to have been simply re-stated again after the North had won by the Supreme Court, intended to re-emphasize the 'dualism' (as you suggest) inherent in the division of competences between the state governments and the federal government intended by the founding fathers of the Constitution. However, dividing competences/powers is not the same thing as dividing sovereignty, which must, by its very nature, be indivisible. The victory of the North was clearly shown to have located sovereignty unambiguously in one American people, and the idea of sovereignty vested in each of the several peoples of the separate states, each one therefore able to secede, was shown to have been crushed. Woodrow Wilson made exactly this point in 1893: there had clearly been in the Civil War, he wrote, the 'virtual creation of a central sovereignty'; the states were no longer sovereign, but 'unquestionably subject to a political superior, ... fused, subordinated, dominated' ('An Old Master and Other Political Essays', Scribner, 1983, pp. 64, 91-4). This view seems to have been common currency in the late nineteenth century, upon the founding of modern political science in the US, among scholars such as Lieber, Burgess and Woolsey. So perhaps it is the more recent (twentieth century) logic which is wrong in apparently forgetting these lessons. Federalunion ( talk) 23:50, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Unfortunately, James Madison's view was shown false in the (subsequent) descent into Civil War in America. The idea that sovereignty was divided between two levels of government - state and federal - was clearly disproven when the Southern states attempted to reassert the sovereignty they claimed still to possess through secession and were disabused of this notion. It was no longer possible to claim that they were in any sense sovereign after the Civil War, hence Woodrow Wilson and others' conclusion above that a single unified sovereignty in the American nation/people had been established. The absence of a right of secession in a federation/federal state such as the US contrasts today with another federal system, the EU, where a right of secession still exists: indeed, the current debate over Brexit in the UK concerns the very exercise of this right, which existed anyway in practice but was formalized in 2009 in Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. As you note, the idea of divided sovereignty comes to us today as a legal doctrine developed by the US Supreme Court. This body simply re-stated the pre-Civil War interpretation of the US Constitution it had employed (following Madison et al. in The Federalist) after its conclusion. As a way of interpreting the US Constitution, emphasizing a strict and constitutionalized division of powers between two levels of government, indicating a clear dualism/line of demarcation/that they are properly 'own powers' belonging to each level and not to be transgressed by the other, it has appeal and arguably utility. However, this does not change the fact that ultimately - and it is in its ultimate sense that the concept of sovereignty has its greatest importance - the final power in a political community must be indivisible and located in a singular determinate body if that polity is to be stable and peaceful. In the US, it would seem that the US Supreme Court is this body, as it has the right to rule in grey areas and allocate unclear/unattributed competences; or, if preferred, one could find the ultimate right (as John Calhoun noted in his Fort Hill address) lying behind it in the presidential power of appointment to the Supreme Court, or even further back in the power of the American people as a whole to determine the President or amend the Constitution. So do we need to slavishly follow the Supreme Court if it is mistaken? And just because someone has written an entire book on 'divided sovereignty' does not make it so. I would be interested to know how you would define sovereignty. Would you agree, for example, that it concerns authority? And, if so, would you agree that this authority is special in that it is the final/final source of authority in a political community? Federalunion ( talk) 08:34, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
I've taken on board some of the above comments and (i) removed the contentious references to the nature of sovereignty within federalism, and (ii) moved other parts of the old third paragraph to footnotes (as suggested). Hopefully everyone now happy with this... Federalunion ( talk) 18:51, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
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This is actually my first foray into wikipedia editing. I was reading this article and saw something that looked off, so I thought I would start simple and merely point out for whoever is watching this article that the In Literature Section reads like blurb for a fiction book, and that the link appears to direct through to a clickbait/advertising link. On top of that, the relevance of the section to the actual article is not very clear to me, and I would suggest that it be considered for removal as a section unless other content can be found to fill its place. If you want to do me a favor, I'd appreciate your citing what rationales/policy you would use to defend or remove the section, so that I can get a better first-hand feel for it before I go around editing. Insignus ( talk) 08:23, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
I removed this recently added material from the overview. -- Malerooster ( talk) 23:06, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
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Because federalism was (and still is rarely) spelled with an oe or ligature œ in British English, I think the article should start with, “Federalism (also spelled foederalism or fœderalism)…”. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RaiBrown1204 ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Intro says first example of federation is the Old Swiss confederation, and the proceeds to say that federation is not a confederation, but the article on the Swiss confederacy says it was a federation. 1)are we sure it was Swiss confederacy the fiest federation ever? what makes it the first?2)It's a strange way to phrase it. Barjimoa ( talk) 23:23, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
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In the first section of the article, it is said that Canada a true confederation. Although we use this expression a lot and that provinces actually own stronger autonomy than other subnational juridiction I would not say that canadian provinces have been federated on voluntary basis. The voluntary basis would mean they were independant before. The provinces as they are were either a British colony or a Canadian federal territories before its accession to the federation. Also the concept of voluntary means that they have a self-right to withdraw from the federation. The actual constitution and recent Supreme court of Canada judgemnts on these issue states clearly that the rightful way for a province to seceed would be anegociated constitutional amendment.
I proposed to use the replace the following sentense by the later:
"Some nations with federal systems, such as Switzerland and Canada, are officially confederations, because membership in the federation is voluntary."
"Some nations with federal systems, such as Switzerland and Canada, are officially confederations, because members are formally part of the constitution and could influence its amendment."
Any comments ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrimart ( talk • contribs) 10:57, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
Why the heck is there no mention of anarchism and its advocacy of free federations at every level of social organization?
The subheader on European Federalism could really use some work. It makes several rather bold and unsupported statements (Claiming that certain governments favour Federalism, and then going on to claim that the European Defence Organisation was the last attempt to create a Federal Europe... I do not feel qualified enough to make something better right now but it really needs work. I also find it hard to believe that there isn't another page in this entire wiki dealing with European Federalism in a more comprehensive way - Knootoss
This part of the introduction strikes me as "Federalism in Christian Theology". Surely there are other religious points of view about federalism as a whole, whether it is in terms of theology or politics directly. For example, the Baha'i Faith is a religion that has a political concept of federalism and outright calls for worldwide federated government as one of it's central themes. -- djKianoosh, 13 February 2006
"Under a federal system a Constitution is the supreme force from which the state is derived. An independent judiciary is necessary to treat as void every act which is inconsistent with the Constitution. Because of this, federalism is precluded by legalism. The Constitution must necessarily be "rigid" and "inexpansive". Its law must be either legally immutable, or else capable of being changed only by some authority above and beyond the ordinary legislative bodies. The difficulty of altering the constitution tends to produce conservative sentiment" this paragaraph seems broad, unsubstantiated and contray to some of what i know. these are all trends in a federal system but they are not reqirments. Beckboyanch
What's the difference? Hackwrench 19:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Federalism is the idea of a group or body of members that are bound together (latin: foedus, covenant) with a governing representative head.
Imperialism is the idea of a group or body of members that are bound together (latin: foedus, covenant) with a governing representative head.
What's the difference? Hackwrench 19:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Federalism is a group of polities formed from within by their own respectively represented constituencies and in legal unison with similar separate governmental jurisdictions of diversified laws. An empire is formed from without & imposed upon separate territories divorced from the central originating one, and has uniform law across their vassalage. They are almost opposites, but not in any way mutually exclusive. The laws of an empire could be federalized, a federal republic could become an empire. etc. Nagelfar 01:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC) Federalism have the power to counter imperialism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ANISH BANERJEE ( talk • contribs) 15:53, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
I just removed some confusing text apparently equating birth with generation and being born again with "regeneration". Anyone want to clarify the concepts? I suspect that someone out there will readd them. Hackwrench 20:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
So Adam the nongenerate is the representative of the generate and Jesus the generate is the representative of the regenerate? Hackwrench 19:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Is theological federalsm an aspect of Covenant Theology or as the article currently says "a synonym for basic Covenant Theology" Hackwrench 16:56, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
Federalism is not just a U.S. phenomenon, for that subject see Federalism (United States). A template on Christian Democracy (placed in the European federalism section; CD politicians were the foundation of federalism in Europe) was removed, and three (count 'em THREE) U.S. law templates have been added. I'm nuking one of them and adding the CD template again. GUÐSÞEGN – U T E X – 04:37, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
It's begging to be split, unless someone can prove that theological and political federalism are really two aspects of the same thing and that we'd lose a lot of continuity by making this a dab. -- Smack ( talk) 22:12, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Not just that, but federalism has so many different aspects it should definitely be split so that the political form is quite clear and then from there it should be split into subheadings such as "Canadian Federalism" and "Federalism in the US. COnstitution.
It may be an idea to divide the page down into the ideological aspects (federalism) and the structural or legal aspects (federation), as per P. King (1982), Federalism and Federation, Croom Helm: London. Although this may be too academic. -- Mccreacr 05:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
This line:
Adolf Hitler viewed federalism as an obstacle, and he wrote in Mein Kampf as follows: "National Socialism must claim the right to impose its principles on the whole German nation, without regard to what were hitherto the confines of federal states."
Is a bit misleading. As the word translated as "federal" is "bundes", wherein if you look at the link on this article page to the German wikipedia, the word is Föderalismus, the German word for Federalism as we use it here is "Föderative", "Bundes" meaning something more akin to a republic system (though often translated as 'federal' as in the federal level of government.) The Reichs-administration in Nazi Germany, partitioning power between gauleiters was very much a federalized type system, the "state-within-a-state" of the bicameral legal rights under SS jurisdiction also had federal characteristics. Nagelfar 01:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
and Bund means in this case Federation (words can mean differnt things in different sitiuations) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.241.36 ( talk) 10:26, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Rather that just providing example of Federalism, it may be helpful to include information about the different types of federalism, such as duel-federalism or marble-cake federalism. The differences between these type of federalism are significant enough to be included in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.48.220.8 ( talk) 02:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree. The definition of "General Federalism" comes up on the first return from google, so I think it's a valid topic. Some of its parts (like the Public Trust) are being advocated by the Council on Foreign Relations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.53.68.122 ( talk) 23:35, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
I tried to add a link but it was removed. I got back a lot of verbiage about policy. All I know is that this is a valid topic that comes up as the first hit in google and the URL I posted is the canonical definition for the term, so can someone fix this? The definition is on a webpage that is not a commercial or even promoted site. I don't see what in the policy should preclude this ... Also, I have a message from January, 2011. That was not me so I don't know what that means either. Thanks in advance — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.53.68.122 ( talk) 23:41, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
I just read the entire policy and guidelines and there is nothing that corresponds to the link I provided. I have "undone" it and I hope that was the right thing to do - thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.53.68.122 ( talk) 23:58, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Shouldnt Proudhon be considered as one of the theorics of Federalism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.33.225.219 ( talk) 03:00, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
... are, following me the Regions and not the Communities. An evidence of that: the representatives of the Parmliament of the Regions and the Communities, are elected on the base of the territories of the Regions... I think it is difficult to say which are the Major Federate Units. For Flanders evidently, the Community but not for Wallonia and Brussels. José Fontaine ( talk) 20:26, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Francophonic political parties favour an independent region for Brussels. It is also true to say that the Belgian Federalism is a Federalism with three components: During 18 years [from 1970], Brussels remained without status (...) The explanation of this non-status was the different views of the French-speaking political parties and of the Dutch-speaking political parties: the latter were against the concept of Region (...) the former (...) claimed that Brussels must become a Region equal to the other Regions (...) The Dutch-speaking parties accepted [in 1988] there is a third Region with the same powers as the two other Regions (...) [1]. In this context, before new negotiations in this year about the reformation of the Belgian state,
1. I'm not really sure what it is trying to say. 2. Translated quotes and selective quotations are not generally considered verifiable. 3. If it saying what I think it is, then it is repeating things already in the section. Synchronism ( talk) 00:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
It is possible also that French-speaking Belgians are more aware of that situation (than the Flemings), because, as Walloons, we are for ages in front of this daily claim of the French-speaking people of Brussels (one million): we are speaking French but we are different and we must have our Région à part entière.
References
I added the Importance-sect template, because I feel the paragraph is too long within this article, and goes too much into unnecessary details. -- Luxem ( talk) 10:47, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Brussels is officially a bilingual area, but it has a French-speaking majority.[7] For historical reasons, Dutch-speaking Brusselers are represented on the political level by Flemish politicians, and not by Brussels based Dutch-speaking politicians. Flanders is the region associated with the Belgium's majority Flemish Community (Flemish is a dialect of Dutch). Due to its relatively small size (approximately one percent) the German-speaking Community of Belgium does not have much influence on national politics. Wallonia is a French-speaking area, except for the East Cantons. French is the second most spoken first language in Belgium following a comparable number of Dutch speakers. Within the French-speaking Community of Belgium, there is a geographical and political distinction between Wallonia and Brussels for historical and sociological reasons.[8]
Since the South African constitution guarantees exclusive provincial authority over certain areas (Schedule 5), does this not make the South African system a federal one? The constitution may only be amended with the consent of a super-majority of provinces (6 of 9). How is this different to the United States, albeit that the listed powers of its States are greater and changes to its constitution require a larger super-majority (75%)? See also talk:Unitary state. -- Uxejn ( talk) 16:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
The introduction states that "Some nations with federal systems, such as Switzerland and Canada, are officially confederations, because membership in the federation is voluntary."
Canada is a federation, not a confederation. According to Ronald Watts' Comparing Federal Systems (3rd ed.), confederations "occur where several pre-existing polities join together to form a common government for certain limited purposes ... but the common government is dependent upon the constitutent governments, being composed of delegates from the constitutent governments, and therefore having only an indirect electoral and fiscal base" (p 8). From its federation in 1867 Canada's federal government has had direct taxation powers.
Does anyone have a citation to support the idea espoused in the intro that confederation is defined by voluntary membership?
Please forgive any bungled format in this edit EveryonelovesMP ( talk) 20:51, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
There was a very interesting editorial published in the Wall Stree Journal on Thursday, April 23, 2009, entitled: "The Case for a Federalism Amendment: How the Tea Partiers can make Washington pay attention." The (currently ungated) link is here: [1]. The story appears to have rather quickly gone viral and their is already an revised draft proposal with ten amendments (versus five in the WSJ editorial) here: [2]. I'm not certain, but I'm guessing this will be sufficiently noteworthy to be worked into the WP Federalism article in the near future. N2e ( talk) 05:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
Removed this text:
Similar power-sharing arrangements between two communities can be found in Fiji, Saint Kitts and Nevis, in Northern Ireland (the Belfast Agreement) and in Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol. original research?
The arrangements described above belong in Consociationalism, Fiji and Northern Ireland in particular.
Andrewgdotcom ( talk) 16:06, 1 August 2009 (UTC)
It was first conceived by Lyndon B. Johnson in 1918 as a way to avoid communism, but was then refined by President Taft into what it is now.
^ I've never edited wiki before, but this statement is clearly bullshit. (from the page on federalism) ^Yeah, I'd have to agree with you there... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.251.132.196 ( talk) 22:54, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Federalism as the Anarchist Mode of Political Organization
"Federalism" if I'm right, used to mean what the anarchists advocated. Can we diversify sources, citations and add more general content? As it stands, it makes the article uglier.-- 66.233.55.145 ( talk) 00:00, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
I think not. 98.227.88.98 ( talk) 14:20, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Whomever added that bizarre discourse has apparently never studied political science at the university level. Any objections before I take out the garbage? -- Coolcaesar ( talk) 22:23, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
It's not 'babbling'; and I have a DPhil in Politics from the University of Oxford on the subject... If you can tell me how sovereignty, understood as final authority, can be divided between two bodies, then I would be happy for you to remove the third paragraph of the introduction. But if, like me, you find yourself unsure as to how arguments over competences unspecified/unallocated by a written constitution can be resolved between two levels of government, thought to be equally sovereign, without the intervention of a third body (presumably then itself sovereign) then perhaps the text as written should be allowed to stand. The logic of 'divided sovereignty', clearly shown false in the run-up to the US Civil War, seems to have been simply re-stated again after the North had won by the Supreme Court, intended to re-emphasize the 'dualism' (as you suggest) inherent in the division of competences between the state governments and the federal government intended by the founding fathers of the Constitution. However, dividing competences/powers is not the same thing as dividing sovereignty, which must, by its very nature, be indivisible. The victory of the North was clearly shown to have located sovereignty unambiguously in one American people, and the idea of sovereignty vested in each of the several peoples of the separate states, each one therefore able to secede, was shown to have been crushed. Woodrow Wilson made exactly this point in 1893: there had clearly been in the Civil War, he wrote, the 'virtual creation of a central sovereignty'; the states were no longer sovereign, but 'unquestionably subject to a political superior, ... fused, subordinated, dominated' ('An Old Master and Other Political Essays', Scribner, 1983, pp. 64, 91-4). This view seems to have been common currency in the late nineteenth century, upon the founding of modern political science in the US, among scholars such as Lieber, Burgess and Woolsey. So perhaps it is the more recent (twentieth century) logic which is wrong in apparently forgetting these lessons. Federalunion ( talk) 23:50, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Unfortunately, James Madison's view was shown false in the (subsequent) descent into Civil War in America. The idea that sovereignty was divided between two levels of government - state and federal - was clearly disproven when the Southern states attempted to reassert the sovereignty they claimed still to possess through secession and were disabused of this notion. It was no longer possible to claim that they were in any sense sovereign after the Civil War, hence Woodrow Wilson and others' conclusion above that a single unified sovereignty in the American nation/people had been established. The absence of a right of secession in a federation/federal state such as the US contrasts today with another federal system, the EU, where a right of secession still exists: indeed, the current debate over Brexit in the UK concerns the very exercise of this right, which existed anyway in practice but was formalized in 2009 in Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. As you note, the idea of divided sovereignty comes to us today as a legal doctrine developed by the US Supreme Court. This body simply re-stated the pre-Civil War interpretation of the US Constitution it had employed (following Madison et al. in The Federalist) after its conclusion. As a way of interpreting the US Constitution, emphasizing a strict and constitutionalized division of powers between two levels of government, indicating a clear dualism/line of demarcation/that they are properly 'own powers' belonging to each level and not to be transgressed by the other, it has appeal and arguably utility. However, this does not change the fact that ultimately - and it is in its ultimate sense that the concept of sovereignty has its greatest importance - the final power in a political community must be indivisible and located in a singular determinate body if that polity is to be stable and peaceful. In the US, it would seem that the US Supreme Court is this body, as it has the right to rule in grey areas and allocate unclear/unattributed competences; or, if preferred, one could find the ultimate right (as John Calhoun noted in his Fort Hill address) lying behind it in the presidential power of appointment to the Supreme Court, or even further back in the power of the American people as a whole to determine the President or amend the Constitution. So do we need to slavishly follow the Supreme Court if it is mistaken? And just because someone has written an entire book on 'divided sovereignty' does not make it so. I would be interested to know how you would define sovereignty. Would you agree, for example, that it concerns authority? And, if so, would you agree that this authority is special in that it is the final/final source of authority in a political community? Federalunion ( talk) 08:34, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
I've taken on board some of the above comments and (i) removed the contentious references to the nature of sovereignty within federalism, and (ii) moved other parts of the old third paragraph to footnotes (as suggested). Hopefully everyone now happy with this... Federalunion ( talk) 18:51, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
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This is actually my first foray into wikipedia editing. I was reading this article and saw something that looked off, so I thought I would start simple and merely point out for whoever is watching this article that the In Literature Section reads like blurb for a fiction book, and that the link appears to direct through to a clickbait/advertising link. On top of that, the relevance of the section to the actual article is not very clear to me, and I would suggest that it be considered for removal as a section unless other content can be found to fill its place. If you want to do me a favor, I'd appreciate your citing what rationales/policy you would use to defend or remove the section, so that I can get a better first-hand feel for it before I go around editing. Insignus ( talk) 08:23, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
I removed this recently added material from the overview. -- Malerooster ( talk) 23:06, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
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-- 47.145.171.223 ( talk) 23:59, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
Because federalism was (and still is rarely) spelled with an oe or ligature œ in British English, I think the article should start with, “Federalism (also spelled foederalism or fœderalism)…”. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RaiBrown1204 ( talk • contribs) 06:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Intro says first example of federation is the Old Swiss confederation, and the proceeds to say that federation is not a confederation, but the article on the Swiss confederacy says it was a federation. 1)are we sure it was Swiss confederacy the fiest federation ever? what makes it the first?2)It's a strange way to phrase it. Barjimoa ( talk) 23:23, 18 August 2023 (UTC)