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I just created this article. Hope it's informative, but it may be too technical. If anyone can proofread, balance, or just generally improve the article, I'd appreciate it. (It's the first non-stub article I've created, so I'd appreciate tips for the future on this talk page or on my user talk page). Thanks. HKT 06:26, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I hope to add a "Philosophy of the Fast" section, soon. It should be a nice improvement. HKT 19:23, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
Done. HKT 05:14, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
I don't really think it belongs here. I'm going to work on moving it to another page... something like "Fasting." You know, where it's more topical. 132.161.189.59
I moved the article back to fast of the firstborn for the simple reasons that (1) many articles link thither and very few to fast of the Firstborn and (2) among those many is {{ jewishHolidays}}. — msh210 18:32, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
I agree. I believe RickK had changed it to fast of the Firstborn. No big deal, though, with all the redirects. HKT 19:28, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
This particular fast is not commonly observed outside of Orthodox Judaism. In general, this doesn't seem broadly relevant enough to merit inclusion of the Jew template, and the Jewish holidays template seems adequate. HKT 18:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
While it may seem strange to have a holiday template for a fast day, there really is no reason why this template shouldn't apply. Jon513 21:27, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Upon review I noticed that this article overlooks the obvious, that at the present time very few people (meaning post Bar Mitzvah first born male Orthodox and Haredi Jews) actually fast on this day because almost everyone partakes in a siyum after Shacharis. I have therefore inserted the following key paragraph: "However, the fast is not usually observed because a siyum (conclusion of a tractate of the Talmud) is made at the conclusion of the morning services which then pre-empts the need for a fast since following a siyum one is permitted to eat a celebratory meal or pastries." I am wondering how the very learned editors of this article could have overlooked such an obvious piece of crucial information? Thank you. IZAK 05:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
The primary name for the fast is B'chorim, and an "auxilliary" name is B'chorot, as mentioned in the foot note. As such, I originally removed B'chorot from the intro so as to minimize clutter there. Therefore, I think it would be a good idea to change those edits back, or to at least mention B'chorot less prominently in the intro (and infobox). If I felt so inclined, I would probably rename the hewiki article on this, too.
When I hear the fast referred to in Hebrew, I hear "B'chorot" about 50 percent of the time. Nevertheless, it is still a more jargon-ish pronuncation and rarely found in text (especially halakhic texts). HKT 08:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I revised the intro and footnotes. I kept "b'chorot" first in the infobox and put "b'chorim" first in the intro (mainly because that required less rewriting of the notes). HKT 15:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I have heard several views that first-born sons after a previously known (but terminated) pregnancy are NOT B'chorim as in the requirements of Pidyon haBen. Thus, they do not have to fast. Since Caesarian section babies do not naturally "open the womb", they cannot be B'chorim either. Converts are also excluded regardless of their biological first-born status. Of course, girls are excluded altogether, although I have heard first-born women and girls observe the fast in more liberal communities. -- OneTopJob6 05:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
The introduction states "Unlike most Jewish fast days, only firstborns are required to fast on the Fast of the Firstborn." However, there is no citation. My personal experience has suggested this is incorrect, though I have no substantiated research to point to for evidence. Can anyone clarify with a source?
Jnklein ( talk) 20:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Fast of the Firstborn/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs inline citations and references. Badbilltucker 17:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC) |
Substituted at 02:13, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 10 dates. show |
I just created this article. Hope it's informative, but it may be too technical. If anyone can proofread, balance, or just generally improve the article, I'd appreciate it. (It's the first non-stub article I've created, so I'd appreciate tips for the future on this talk page or on my user talk page). Thanks. HKT 06:26, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I hope to add a "Philosophy of the Fast" section, soon. It should be a nice improvement. HKT 19:23, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
Done. HKT 05:14, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
I don't really think it belongs here. I'm going to work on moving it to another page... something like "Fasting." You know, where it's more topical. 132.161.189.59
I moved the article back to fast of the firstborn for the simple reasons that (1) many articles link thither and very few to fast of the Firstborn and (2) among those many is {{ jewishHolidays}}. — msh210 18:32, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
I agree. I believe RickK had changed it to fast of the Firstborn. No big deal, though, with all the redirects. HKT 19:28, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
This particular fast is not commonly observed outside of Orthodox Judaism. In general, this doesn't seem broadly relevant enough to merit inclusion of the Jew template, and the Jewish holidays template seems adequate. HKT 18:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
While it may seem strange to have a holiday template for a fast day, there really is no reason why this template shouldn't apply. Jon513 21:27, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
Upon review I noticed that this article overlooks the obvious, that at the present time very few people (meaning post Bar Mitzvah first born male Orthodox and Haredi Jews) actually fast on this day because almost everyone partakes in a siyum after Shacharis. I have therefore inserted the following key paragraph: "However, the fast is not usually observed because a siyum (conclusion of a tractate of the Talmud) is made at the conclusion of the morning services which then pre-empts the need for a fast since following a siyum one is permitted to eat a celebratory meal or pastries." I am wondering how the very learned editors of this article could have overlooked such an obvious piece of crucial information? Thank you. IZAK 05:24, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
The primary name for the fast is B'chorim, and an "auxilliary" name is B'chorot, as mentioned in the foot note. As such, I originally removed B'chorot from the intro so as to minimize clutter there. Therefore, I think it would be a good idea to change those edits back, or to at least mention B'chorot less prominently in the intro (and infobox). If I felt so inclined, I would probably rename the hewiki article on this, too.
When I hear the fast referred to in Hebrew, I hear "B'chorot" about 50 percent of the time. Nevertheless, it is still a more jargon-ish pronuncation and rarely found in text (especially halakhic texts). HKT 08:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I revised the intro and footnotes. I kept "b'chorot" first in the infobox and put "b'chorim" first in the intro (mainly because that required less rewriting of the notes). HKT 15:10, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I have heard several views that first-born sons after a previously known (but terminated) pregnancy are NOT B'chorim as in the requirements of Pidyon haBen. Thus, they do not have to fast. Since Caesarian section babies do not naturally "open the womb", they cannot be B'chorim either. Converts are also excluded regardless of their biological first-born status. Of course, girls are excluded altogether, although I have heard first-born women and girls observe the fast in more liberal communities. -- OneTopJob6 05:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
The introduction states "Unlike most Jewish fast days, only firstborns are required to fast on the Fast of the Firstborn." However, there is no citation. My personal experience has suggested this is incorrect, though I have no substantiated research to point to for evidence. Can anyone clarify with a source?
Jnklein ( talk) 20:16, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Fast of the Firstborn/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs inline citations and references. Badbilltucker 17:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC) |
Substituted at 02:13, 27 September 2016 (UTC)