![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
At least without it being a pejorative. David Duke, for example, would definitely be considered far right because he's engaged in neo-Nazi, reactionary, and white nationalist activities throughout his career. But how is a person like Mitt Romney or Angele Merkel considered far right? And is the American Democratic Party, SPD, Canadian New Democratic Party, etc. considered "far left" due to being part of the stream of left-wing politics by the same token? It's absurd...maybe we need to find a better source. Just my $.02 18.244.7.149 ( talk) 15:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
"The term can however be misleading, as many so-called 'far-right' parties, though Nationalist and therefore right-wing on social policy have a traditionally left-wing stance on economic policies, many advocating a form of collectivist or socialist-like economy; e.g. the Kuomingtang (Chinese national Party)the Nazi Party (National Socialist German Workers' Party) or the National Bolshevik Party."
The above statement is only misleading if one were to view the Right-Left dichotomy through American-tinted glasses. As the recent European Parliament election has shown, such distinctions are natural for Europe and other regions and are only strange if one believes that the American system of dividing Left and Right is the only system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.185.202.3 ( talk) 07:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I have added “islamic party” to the “far right”category seeing as many scholar and political commentator consider the nature of religious fundamentalism no different from fascist (“ultra-nationalist” or “racist right”) movement. Please refer to " Neo-fascism and religion" and " Palingenesis". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thundera m117 ( talk • contribs) 11:00, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Roger Griffen and Malise Ruthven say no such thing. The Four Deuces ( talk) 20:28, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I find it very distrurbing that The 'Four Deuces' states that only whites can have far-right parties or be far-right. This is racism and wikipedia should reject this nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.195.133.11 ( talk) 18:07, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I really don't see a need to have an article on "Right-wing politics," and then have this one too. --
Albert Sumlin (
talk)
20:52, 24 April 2010 (UTC)sock of banned editor
The debate about who or what is right wing or extreme rightist versus what is left wing or far leftist should go on. Nations such as the Peoples Republic of China (Red China), The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) are called communistic and left wing. While nations such as Nazi Germany (National Socialist German Workers Party, NSDAP) and Fascist Italy are considered right wing or far right. All of these examples have a common thread, forms of totalitarian socialism or total national control of the nations means of production. In brief terms they all were nearly the same in practice. They all call themselves socialist or refer to socialism in their speeches and writings. They all had/have national control over the means of production. They all have slaughtered those who opposed them by the millions.
The American Philosopher and Political analyst W. Cleon Skousen in his writings has a more accurate way of sorting this out. Left Wing means total government control and Right Wing means total anarchy. Under the current system with people like Stalin on the far left and Hilter on the far right you end up with every thing being totalitarian socialism or communism. Under Skousen all totalitarian socialists and communists would be on the left side of the spectrum while total anarchists would be on the right. Thus ending the debate over who or what is far right versus far left. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.169.149.186 ( talk) 20:47, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Socialism and Fascism are very different ideologies. The confusion seems to arrive from the fact that they both had authoritarian manifestations, i.e. Stalinism & Nazism. So the link here is their authoritarian characteristics rather than their fundamentals - which were entirely different. In the Soviet Union the government took on conservative characteristics or integrated conservative characteristics from Russian culture - these were often at odds with true socialist teachings. I think any ideology can have a conservative and progressive manifestation given enough time. Had Nazi Germany survived perhaps there may have emerged progressive, less anti-semitic factions over time. There may have been a less nationalistic "reform" Nazism appear.
121.73.7.84 (
talk)
12:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Political compass On the website Political compass it is argued that parties labelled as 'far right' are actually more leftist than most modern main stream parties. 'Far right' cannot be correct as a nomer because advocating government control (far left) cannot be a polar opposite to advocating government control (far right).
Actually, communism (government control) is the polar opposite of the free market ideology. Communism is primarily an economic ideology whereas fascism is a social ideology. They are not, nor have they ever been (except in rhetoric) polar opposites. The term 'far right' therefore is incorrect and used by parties identifying themselves as 'left' to discredit the 'right'. Unfortunately for them, fascism is all about state control (if not state ownership of the means of production, then certainly state control of them).
Political compass argues that advocates of state control all belong on the left.
It introduces 2 axis: -an economic x-axis (horizontal) where communism (state control) and free market ideology (no state control) are polar opposites -a social y-axis (vertical) where authoritarianism and libertarianism are polar opposites.
-- 82.156.49.1 04:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Advocating government control can in fact be an opposite of advocating a different type of government control. The two groups may want the government to control different things, and they may wish to achieve opposite goals. "Government control" is a method, a means to an end. Ideologies may have opposing goals, while using similar means to achieve them.
The Political Compass model is interesting, but has a number of major flaws. For example, the "left-wing", which is supposed to represent state control of the economy, includes the ideology of anarcho-communism, which wants to abolish the state along with private property. Conversely, "free market ideology" always needs a state to define and enforce property rights. -- Nikodemos 03:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm object to the idea that NAZIs are called "far-right". The Nazi's were extremely socialist and anti-capitalist [2]. They have the german word for socialism in their name for crying out loud. The facists were also socialist [3]. There is no far-right evil totalitarian empire like the far-left ones in every communist country and it makes no sense to perpetuate this myth that the Left is to Stalin as the Right is to Hitler. I really doubt anyone who considers themselves a far-right, right-wing extremist, dittohead would advocate any socialism at all. Ryratt 05:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
So while some agree with you, most do not.-- Cberlet 20:11, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I suggest all of you to read a very interesting article by a neo-Nazi Povl H. Riis-Knudsen entitled National Socialism: A Left Wing Movement (1984). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.10.196.191 ( talk) 11:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
If you look up any of hitlers statements about communism or liberalism you will find he hated them and since by the def. of right wing republicans communism is left wing nazism must be right wing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.13.118.232 ( talk) 17:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
There have been frequent changes to the introduction in the past days. I frankly don't think one version is better than another. They all rely on different sources, and it is difficult to evaluate which source is best. The problem is that "far right" is poorly defined and very subjective. I would favor a much more general introduction, followed by a list of all the various attributes suggested by all the authors, without suggesting that one or the other is the absolute authority.
Albert Sumlin (
talk)
00:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)sock of banned editor
Looking at recent edits, I would say that this one
[6] is an improvement, because it reduces the tendency to oversimplify. This one
[7] I think is better yet, because it confines itself to a very general description. This edit
[8] I think is questionable, because even though it is sourced, it presents the opinions of the sources cited as universally applicable to "far right" groups, which I think is a stretch. I would prefer to start the article with a list of attributes which are universally agreed upon, which would most likely be a relatively short list.
Albert Sumlin (
talk)
20:58, 19 May 2010 (UTC)sock of banned editor
Is that supposed to be an insult? Look, I don't support far right wing groups. My problem with this article is that it says things that aren't backed up by sources. For example, it says "Far right politics involves supremacism, believing that superiority and inferiority are an innate reality for individuals and groups, and involves the complete rejection of the concept of social equality as a norm." Does that mean that all far-right groups are "supremacist"? I doubt that they are. Does the cited source say they are? No,it doesn't. The one mention of "supremacism" that I could find is this one:
[9] Then the Wikipedia article says "Far right politics supports segregation, and the separation of groups deemed to be superior from groups deemed to be inferior." I'm sure that some far right groups support segregation, but do all of them? I doubt it. The same source is cited, and a search of the book for "segregation" turns up zero results. We shouldn't use articles to express personal opinions. There must be reputable sources for what we say.
Albert Sumlin (
talk)
00:31, 21 May 2010 (UTC)sock of banned editor
Nazism is on the Right just as Communism is on the left. Ask any Nazi they hate Communsim and Liberalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.13.118.232 ( talk) 17:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Hitler was by his own words a anti-communist and he saw liberalism and communusm as the same thing. Since people on the right belive communism and liberals are on the left hitler is on the right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.13.118.232 ( talk) 23:09, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
I am starting a new article, the The Radical Right. The two subjects are sufficiently different to require separate articles. TFD ( talk) 05:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Right-wing terrorism seems to have more extremists than actual terrorists so i propose a merger of both articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.94.201.92 ( talk) 22:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
We need a section in this article that examines the connection between right-wing ideology and the tenets of private-enterprise based capitalism. The second paragraph does touch on this ("...superiority and inferiority is an innate reality..."), but far more needs to be written.
We need to consider this in the context of comparing general right-wing psychosis with the pathology of narcissistic behaviors of right-wing individuals, and how that eventually manifests itself into the development of private business, and, ultimately, large corporations.
I put, as an example, how the typical TV commercial represents a narcissistic event. A car company will go on endlessly in its commercial on how much better it is than other cars. If that doesn’t work, the next set of commercials show how much worse its competitors are. Either way, the end result is the same: to elevate itself.
And this illustrates the point in paragraph two, referenced above: "...superiority and inferiority is an innate reality..."
This is precisely the behavior that right-wing ideologies, such as Nazism, also espouse. Thus, this connection between Nazis and business, between right-wing politics and corporations, needs to be explored in this article.
--
Atikokan (
talk)
01:56, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
If an article's "further reading" section is longer than the text, you've got a serious problem. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ( Otters want attention) 01:12, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Someone should either demonstrate that those on the right wing tend to describe people with said characteristics as 'radical right wingers' or else note that the term is typically a perjorative used by the left to label certain policies in much the same way that people don't typically call themselves 'social darwinists' but instead apply that label to other people. The article touches on this in the beginning, but then seems to accept the assertion that such policies called 'far right' are in fact more strongly associated with those who label themselves as being right wing rather than those who label themselves as left wing. Further, the article fails to differentiate between those things which are labled as racist and those which are 'racist' by some objective standard. Can an argument in favor of, or predicated on the belief in equal opportunity be considered 'racist?'
Consider, for example, the fact that Fred Phelps, often depicted as radically right wing is, in fact, a registered Democrat as well as a former supporter and associate of Al Gore. [10]
This guy gets it right: "Though this definition (that Nazism is far right) is accepted and promulgated by media and educators, how does this fit into any rational system of understanding political ideology? It does not, of course, but whenever any group displays any activity that does not adhere to a politically correct agenda, and can be pronounced by liberals as being racist, sexist, bigoted, or intolerant — whether this description is accurate or not — the group is deemed “right-wing.” " http://thenewamerican.com/index.php/history/european/2161-ideological-bedfellows So somewhere, somebody got the idea that racism is a "far right" trait even though the only major piece of legislation in the last several decades that discriminates based on race (in the US) is affirmative action promoted by the left. But even then I give the left the benefit of the doubt. I do not think the "far left" is racist, neither is the "far right". Racism can happen regardless of political orientation. So forget about the Nazis' authoritarianism, statism, socialist qualities, and collectivism and say that because they were 'racist' they must be 'far right'. Ridiculous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.67.141 ( talk) 13:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
What puts the NAZI party on far left are the historical documents themselves. Read the 25 point manifesto from hitler himself and tell me hes not a socialist. Attempts at providing your revisionist theorys dont wash when one goes to the source documents.Haphaestus123
No reputable historian...lol...see above for dozens of extremely reputable scholars who all agree Nazis were far left. Its ok to be wrong byron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haphaestus123 ( talk • contribs) 03:45, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Yep, the far right is in fact the side of liberalism and freedom. This entire article is trite and complete BS. The nazis, the national socialist party, is of COURSE left wing. It should be noted however that a favorite tactic of fascists is to "redefine" terms to suite their own needs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.52.180 ( talk) 17:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Le sigh...I have absolutely NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what I'm doing here, or even if I'm posting this correctly (is there some kind of formality I have to go through, or some kind page I have to access first?). Regardless, I have to say that I agree with Mr. Morrigan here. He's correct in that Nazism and Communism (Stalinist communism to be more precise in this context) are on totally different sides of the spectrum. Any political scientist worth his salt will tell you this. There are similarities, no doubt, but there certainly weren't enough to keep them from fighting like cats and dogs. I've long since come to the personal conclusion that the only people who claim otherwise are conservative blowhards looking to vilify the left by any means necessary in the hope of validating the supposed superiority of their own ideology.
I don't support how Mr. Morrigan is combating this trend, however. His condescending attitude represents what I think is wrong with academia these days, people who assume that because they have a piece of paper with a signature on it they can view the unwashed Huns with contempt and disdain. If the aforementioned blowhards are really giving him a hard time about this issue, he simply needs to edit-lock the page, rather than flip out and attempt use the fact that he's still a lowly grad student (in history, no less!) to convince people to stop doing what they're doing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.233.188.163 ( talk) 06:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
1. This article is useful if you want to understand what a person means when the term "far right wing" is used as a pejorative / expletive. Its relevance in understanding the philosophy of an individual that self-identifies as "far right wing" is completely non-existent. 2. The terms "left" and "right" in American politics have little relation to how the terms were used in the time of the French Revolution, and are further lost in this article. This is a weakness. 3. Despite an association between "left wing" and "egalitarianism", it completely biased to say that from left to right it is a choice between "egalitarianism" and "racism". I can not imagine that a person other than one that would identify as "left" would make this harsh juxtaposition. 4. While I can appreciate the verifiable sources of self identified historians here, their use of sources throughout this talk seems to be "appeals to authority" RATHER than, and even at the expense of, evidence to support the epistemological value of the term being defined; other than, as mentioned, a pejorative / expletive used to criticize or otherwise demean those of opposing ideologies. This is short sighted at best, and even then it is assuming a lot.
For the sake of making a positive contribution to the direction this article could go, I would say that the most consistant element of "far right politics", at least in American Politics, is an ideological leaning towards a "Strict Constructionist" interpretation and application of the Federal Constitution, deferring to Black Letter Law and documented contemporary Legislative Intent, and rejecting the concept that the Constitution is a Living Document other than as specifically prescribed in Article V. I think this maintains the connection to the French Revolution, highlights the terms transformation over time, and giving a hint of insight to the criticisms of opposing ideology. Further, it maintains the concept of a spectrum whose end behavior is both conceivable, and consistently identifiable across varying ideologies meaning that two people of different ideologies could look at a person's political views and each identify them as "far right". It would also allow for the potential inclusion of evidence to support labeling people in the article as "far right" for the sake of being informative, without being a personal attack.
By contrast, a historical consensus about a conceptual minority is in very poor taste and inconsistent with the quality standards more commonly seen with controversial topics throughout Wikipedia. Adelie42 ( talk) 18:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
I posted the following suggestions originally on the Far-left article's talk page because that article needed a lot of improvement but many of the suggestions also apply to this article too, which is also in need of improvement, so I'll repost the suggestions here.
Some observations about term far-right that should help with improving the article:
-- Cab88 ( talk) 09:58, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
At least without it being a pejorative. David Duke, for example, would definitely be considered far right because he's engaged in neo-Nazi, reactionary, and white nationalist activities throughout his career. But how is a person like Mitt Romney or Angele Merkel considered far right? And is the American Democratic Party, SPD, Canadian New Democratic Party, etc. considered "far left" due to being part of the stream of left-wing politics by the same token? It's absurd...maybe we need to find a better source. Just my $.02 18.244.7.149 ( talk) 15:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
"The term can however be misleading, as many so-called 'far-right' parties, though Nationalist and therefore right-wing on social policy have a traditionally left-wing stance on economic policies, many advocating a form of collectivist or socialist-like economy; e.g. the Kuomingtang (Chinese national Party)the Nazi Party (National Socialist German Workers' Party) or the National Bolshevik Party."
The above statement is only misleading if one were to view the Right-Left dichotomy through American-tinted glasses. As the recent European Parliament election has shown, such distinctions are natural for Europe and other regions and are only strange if one believes that the American system of dividing Left and Right is the only system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.185.202.3 ( talk) 07:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
I have added “islamic party” to the “far right”category seeing as many scholar and political commentator consider the nature of religious fundamentalism no different from fascist (“ultra-nationalist” or “racist right”) movement. Please refer to " Neo-fascism and religion" and " Palingenesis". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thundera m117 ( talk • contribs) 11:00, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
Roger Griffen and Malise Ruthven say no such thing. The Four Deuces ( talk) 20:28, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
I find it very distrurbing that The 'Four Deuces' states that only whites can have far-right parties or be far-right. This is racism and wikipedia should reject this nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.195.133.11 ( talk) 18:07, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
I really don't see a need to have an article on "Right-wing politics," and then have this one too. --
Albert Sumlin (
talk)
20:52, 24 April 2010 (UTC)sock of banned editor
The debate about who or what is right wing or extreme rightist versus what is left wing or far leftist should go on. Nations such as the Peoples Republic of China (Red China), The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) are called communistic and left wing. While nations such as Nazi Germany (National Socialist German Workers Party, NSDAP) and Fascist Italy are considered right wing or far right. All of these examples have a common thread, forms of totalitarian socialism or total national control of the nations means of production. In brief terms they all were nearly the same in practice. They all call themselves socialist or refer to socialism in their speeches and writings. They all had/have national control over the means of production. They all have slaughtered those who opposed them by the millions.
The American Philosopher and Political analyst W. Cleon Skousen in his writings has a more accurate way of sorting this out. Left Wing means total government control and Right Wing means total anarchy. Under the current system with people like Stalin on the far left and Hilter on the far right you end up with every thing being totalitarian socialism or communism. Under Skousen all totalitarian socialists and communists would be on the left side of the spectrum while total anarchists would be on the right. Thus ending the debate over who or what is far right versus far left. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.169.149.186 ( talk) 20:47, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Socialism and Fascism are very different ideologies. The confusion seems to arrive from the fact that they both had authoritarian manifestations, i.e. Stalinism & Nazism. So the link here is their authoritarian characteristics rather than their fundamentals - which were entirely different. In the Soviet Union the government took on conservative characteristics or integrated conservative characteristics from Russian culture - these were often at odds with true socialist teachings. I think any ideology can have a conservative and progressive manifestation given enough time. Had Nazi Germany survived perhaps there may have emerged progressive, less anti-semitic factions over time. There may have been a less nationalistic "reform" Nazism appear.
121.73.7.84 (
talk)
12:50, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
Political compass On the website Political compass it is argued that parties labelled as 'far right' are actually more leftist than most modern main stream parties. 'Far right' cannot be correct as a nomer because advocating government control (far left) cannot be a polar opposite to advocating government control (far right).
Actually, communism (government control) is the polar opposite of the free market ideology. Communism is primarily an economic ideology whereas fascism is a social ideology. They are not, nor have they ever been (except in rhetoric) polar opposites. The term 'far right' therefore is incorrect and used by parties identifying themselves as 'left' to discredit the 'right'. Unfortunately for them, fascism is all about state control (if not state ownership of the means of production, then certainly state control of them).
Political compass argues that advocates of state control all belong on the left.
It introduces 2 axis: -an economic x-axis (horizontal) where communism (state control) and free market ideology (no state control) are polar opposites -a social y-axis (vertical) where authoritarianism and libertarianism are polar opposites.
-- 82.156.49.1 04:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Advocating government control can in fact be an opposite of advocating a different type of government control. The two groups may want the government to control different things, and they may wish to achieve opposite goals. "Government control" is a method, a means to an end. Ideologies may have opposing goals, while using similar means to achieve them.
The Political Compass model is interesting, but has a number of major flaws. For example, the "left-wing", which is supposed to represent state control of the economy, includes the ideology of anarcho-communism, which wants to abolish the state along with private property. Conversely, "free market ideology" always needs a state to define and enforce property rights. -- Nikodemos 03:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm object to the idea that NAZIs are called "far-right". The Nazi's were extremely socialist and anti-capitalist [2]. They have the german word for socialism in their name for crying out loud. The facists were also socialist [3]. There is no far-right evil totalitarian empire like the far-left ones in every communist country and it makes no sense to perpetuate this myth that the Left is to Stalin as the Right is to Hitler. I really doubt anyone who considers themselves a far-right, right-wing extremist, dittohead would advocate any socialism at all. Ryratt 05:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
So while some agree with you, most do not.-- Cberlet 20:11, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I suggest all of you to read a very interesting article by a neo-Nazi Povl H. Riis-Knudsen entitled National Socialism: A Left Wing Movement (1984). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.10.196.191 ( talk) 11:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
If you look up any of hitlers statements about communism or liberalism you will find he hated them and since by the def. of right wing republicans communism is left wing nazism must be right wing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.13.118.232 ( talk) 17:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
There have been frequent changes to the introduction in the past days. I frankly don't think one version is better than another. They all rely on different sources, and it is difficult to evaluate which source is best. The problem is that "far right" is poorly defined and very subjective. I would favor a much more general introduction, followed by a list of all the various attributes suggested by all the authors, without suggesting that one or the other is the absolute authority.
Albert Sumlin (
talk)
00:05, 19 May 2010 (UTC)sock of banned editor
Looking at recent edits, I would say that this one
[6] is an improvement, because it reduces the tendency to oversimplify. This one
[7] I think is better yet, because it confines itself to a very general description. This edit
[8] I think is questionable, because even though it is sourced, it presents the opinions of the sources cited as universally applicable to "far right" groups, which I think is a stretch. I would prefer to start the article with a list of attributes which are universally agreed upon, which would most likely be a relatively short list.
Albert Sumlin (
talk)
20:58, 19 May 2010 (UTC)sock of banned editor
Is that supposed to be an insult? Look, I don't support far right wing groups. My problem with this article is that it says things that aren't backed up by sources. For example, it says "Far right politics involves supremacism, believing that superiority and inferiority are an innate reality for individuals and groups, and involves the complete rejection of the concept of social equality as a norm." Does that mean that all far-right groups are "supremacist"? I doubt that they are. Does the cited source say they are? No,it doesn't. The one mention of "supremacism" that I could find is this one:
[9] Then the Wikipedia article says "Far right politics supports segregation, and the separation of groups deemed to be superior from groups deemed to be inferior." I'm sure that some far right groups support segregation, but do all of them? I doubt it. The same source is cited, and a search of the book for "segregation" turns up zero results. We shouldn't use articles to express personal opinions. There must be reputable sources for what we say.
Albert Sumlin (
talk)
00:31, 21 May 2010 (UTC)sock of banned editor
Nazism is on the Right just as Communism is on the left. Ask any Nazi they hate Communsim and Liberalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.13.118.232 ( talk) 17:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Hitler was by his own words a anti-communist and he saw liberalism and communusm as the same thing. Since people on the right belive communism and liberals are on the left hitler is on the right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.13.118.232 ( talk) 23:09, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
I am starting a new article, the The Radical Right. The two subjects are sufficiently different to require separate articles. TFD ( talk) 05:38, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
Right-wing terrorism seems to have more extremists than actual terrorists so i propose a merger of both articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.94.201.92 ( talk) 22:43, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
We need a section in this article that examines the connection between right-wing ideology and the tenets of private-enterprise based capitalism. The second paragraph does touch on this ("...superiority and inferiority is an innate reality..."), but far more needs to be written.
We need to consider this in the context of comparing general right-wing psychosis with the pathology of narcissistic behaviors of right-wing individuals, and how that eventually manifests itself into the development of private business, and, ultimately, large corporations.
I put, as an example, how the typical TV commercial represents a narcissistic event. A car company will go on endlessly in its commercial on how much better it is than other cars. If that doesn’t work, the next set of commercials show how much worse its competitors are. Either way, the end result is the same: to elevate itself.
And this illustrates the point in paragraph two, referenced above: "...superiority and inferiority is an innate reality..."
This is precisely the behavior that right-wing ideologies, such as Nazism, also espouse. Thus, this connection between Nazis and business, between right-wing politics and corporations, needs to be explored in this article.
--
Atikokan (
talk)
01:56, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
If an article's "further reading" section is longer than the text, you've got a serious problem. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ( Otters want attention) 01:12, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Someone should either demonstrate that those on the right wing tend to describe people with said characteristics as 'radical right wingers' or else note that the term is typically a perjorative used by the left to label certain policies in much the same way that people don't typically call themselves 'social darwinists' but instead apply that label to other people. The article touches on this in the beginning, but then seems to accept the assertion that such policies called 'far right' are in fact more strongly associated with those who label themselves as being right wing rather than those who label themselves as left wing. Further, the article fails to differentiate between those things which are labled as racist and those which are 'racist' by some objective standard. Can an argument in favor of, or predicated on the belief in equal opportunity be considered 'racist?'
Consider, for example, the fact that Fred Phelps, often depicted as radically right wing is, in fact, a registered Democrat as well as a former supporter and associate of Al Gore. [10]
This guy gets it right: "Though this definition (that Nazism is far right) is accepted and promulgated by media and educators, how does this fit into any rational system of understanding political ideology? It does not, of course, but whenever any group displays any activity that does not adhere to a politically correct agenda, and can be pronounced by liberals as being racist, sexist, bigoted, or intolerant — whether this description is accurate or not — the group is deemed “right-wing.” " http://thenewamerican.com/index.php/history/european/2161-ideological-bedfellows So somewhere, somebody got the idea that racism is a "far right" trait even though the only major piece of legislation in the last several decades that discriminates based on race (in the US) is affirmative action promoted by the left. But even then I give the left the benefit of the doubt. I do not think the "far left" is racist, neither is the "far right". Racism can happen regardless of political orientation. So forget about the Nazis' authoritarianism, statism, socialist qualities, and collectivism and say that because they were 'racist' they must be 'far right'. Ridiculous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.87.67.141 ( talk) 13:42, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
What puts the NAZI party on far left are the historical documents themselves. Read the 25 point manifesto from hitler himself and tell me hes not a socialist. Attempts at providing your revisionist theorys dont wash when one goes to the source documents.Haphaestus123
No reputable historian...lol...see above for dozens of extremely reputable scholars who all agree Nazis were far left. Its ok to be wrong byron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haphaestus123 ( talk • contribs) 03:45, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Yep, the far right is in fact the side of liberalism and freedom. This entire article is trite and complete BS. The nazis, the national socialist party, is of COURSE left wing. It should be noted however that a favorite tactic of fascists is to "redefine" terms to suite their own needs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.52.180 ( talk) 17:28, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Le sigh...I have absolutely NO IDEA WHATSOEVER what I'm doing here, or even if I'm posting this correctly (is there some kind of formality I have to go through, or some kind page I have to access first?). Regardless, I have to say that I agree with Mr. Morrigan here. He's correct in that Nazism and Communism (Stalinist communism to be more precise in this context) are on totally different sides of the spectrum. Any political scientist worth his salt will tell you this. There are similarities, no doubt, but there certainly weren't enough to keep them from fighting like cats and dogs. I've long since come to the personal conclusion that the only people who claim otherwise are conservative blowhards looking to vilify the left by any means necessary in the hope of validating the supposed superiority of their own ideology.
I don't support how Mr. Morrigan is combating this trend, however. His condescending attitude represents what I think is wrong with academia these days, people who assume that because they have a piece of paper with a signature on it they can view the unwashed Huns with contempt and disdain. If the aforementioned blowhards are really giving him a hard time about this issue, he simply needs to edit-lock the page, rather than flip out and attempt use the fact that he's still a lowly grad student (in history, no less!) to convince people to stop doing what they're doing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.233.188.163 ( talk) 06:02, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
1. This article is useful if you want to understand what a person means when the term "far right wing" is used as a pejorative / expletive. Its relevance in understanding the philosophy of an individual that self-identifies as "far right wing" is completely non-existent. 2. The terms "left" and "right" in American politics have little relation to how the terms were used in the time of the French Revolution, and are further lost in this article. This is a weakness. 3. Despite an association between "left wing" and "egalitarianism", it completely biased to say that from left to right it is a choice between "egalitarianism" and "racism". I can not imagine that a person other than one that would identify as "left" would make this harsh juxtaposition. 4. While I can appreciate the verifiable sources of self identified historians here, their use of sources throughout this talk seems to be "appeals to authority" RATHER than, and even at the expense of, evidence to support the epistemological value of the term being defined; other than, as mentioned, a pejorative / expletive used to criticize or otherwise demean those of opposing ideologies. This is short sighted at best, and even then it is assuming a lot.
For the sake of making a positive contribution to the direction this article could go, I would say that the most consistant element of "far right politics", at least in American Politics, is an ideological leaning towards a "Strict Constructionist" interpretation and application of the Federal Constitution, deferring to Black Letter Law and documented contemporary Legislative Intent, and rejecting the concept that the Constitution is a Living Document other than as specifically prescribed in Article V. I think this maintains the connection to the French Revolution, highlights the terms transformation over time, and giving a hint of insight to the criticisms of opposing ideology. Further, it maintains the concept of a spectrum whose end behavior is both conceivable, and consistently identifiable across varying ideologies meaning that two people of different ideologies could look at a person's political views and each identify them as "far right". It would also allow for the potential inclusion of evidence to support labeling people in the article as "far right" for the sake of being informative, without being a personal attack.
By contrast, a historical consensus about a conceptual minority is in very poor taste and inconsistent with the quality standards more commonly seen with controversial topics throughout Wikipedia. Adelie42 ( talk) 18:51, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
I posted the following suggestions originally on the Far-left article's talk page because that article needed a lot of improvement but many of the suggestions also apply to this article too, which is also in need of improvement, so I'll repost the suggestions here.
Some observations about term far-right that should help with improving the article:
-- Cab88 ( talk) 09:58, 23 May 2011 (UTC)