This article is within the scope of WikiProject Magazines, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
magazines on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MagazinesWikipedia:WikiProject MagazinesTemplate:WikiProject Magazinesmagazine articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Science Fiction, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
science fiction on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Science FictionWikipedia:WikiProject Science FictionTemplate:WikiProject Science Fictionscience fiction articles
So there's not too much to talk about here. The article covers a narrow topic, does so fairly well and is referenced as well as one might hope, given the subject (see below for my largely vain attempts to find good resources outside of those listed in the article). I'd like to see it cover the impact (if there was one) of Fantasy on british sci-fi but there's only so much impact one could expect from a 3 issue run of a a magazine--a run which abutted against the second world war to boot.
If you have time and access to sources I'd like to see some of the sources I listed below incorporated into the article should they provide some novel information. However that's not a requirement and I think I can pass this article provided the style and content questions below are answered.
Howdy! Nice to talk to you. Thanks for picking this up. I'll go through your notes below and reply in more detail, but generally there's not much to say about the impact; pre-war British magazine sf died a-borning because of the war.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
02:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
Oh, one last thing. Can you find the appropriate wikiprojects for this and add talk page banners/assessments? If there aren't any (or they'd be too broad or too inactive) then don't worry about it but it might be valuable.
Protonk (
talk)
13:04, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
images
image looks great, NFC justification seems sound
style/layout
Should we wikilink the first appearance of "Newnes" in the lede? Also, should it be George Newnes Ltd. in the lede and Newnes elsewhere?
I'm not a huge fan of unnecessarily breaking out sections in short articles but might there be some benefit to splitting the sections on stories recieved, art and publication history?
Is there a reason aside from personal preference that we've split the footnotes and the references? Normally I see this where there are multiple references to distinct pages among a small set of references but here it's a 1:1 mapping.
No particular reason -- I used this style on
radiocarbon dating, which is the most recent major article I've worked on, and another editor with an academic background helped me make it consistent. Now I have the habit. I think I like it because the footnotes themselves are short, which seems simpler for the reader.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
02:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
lede summarizes the article fairly well
Would this topic benefit from a see also section? Is there a navigation template for sf magazines?
"The non-fiction piece, by P.E. Cleator, continued a series of articles he had published in Scoops..." which non-fiction piece? This sentence looks like it preceeded something else in a prior version.
Rephrased; the source doesn't give the title of the piece, just a description. I could pull the title from another source, but I don't have a reliable source to hand that gives it -- it's
this but the ISFDB doesn't qualify as an RS, sadly. I have the magazine itself, but it's hidden in a box somewhere in the basement. When it emerges I'll add the title. I suppose I could add it now and source the magazine -- what do you think? There's no real doubt that this is the title.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
02:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
Aside from "Vampire from the Void" are there any other particularly interesting or notable stories to have come out of Fantasy?
None that the sources mention. The closest is probably John Beynon's "Beyond the Screen", which is interesting only because Beynon is John Wyndham, who is well-known; but I already mention that. The story itself is unremarkable.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
02:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
There's Michael Ashley's The History of the Science Fiction Magazine: 1936-1945 (which I don't see available online). You've got two other books by him so it's possible the material has been covered there
Neil Barron's Anatomy of Wonder contains a chapter on science fiction between the wars. I don't know if this covers Fantasy (as the name is a confounded search term)
Passing mention in a letter to the editor for Science Fiction Studies 13(1) 1986 (pp. 105) about Nils Frome not being as bummed about a particular story in Fantasy as he was w/ most other contemporary Sci Fi. Not much but I've searched through their archives for 30 minutes and I need something, that journal is interminable.
Eric Leif Davin in Partners in Wonder: Women and the Birth of Science Fiction, 1926-1965 (pp. 21-22) indicates (in passing only) that Fantasy ran in from 1946-1947 as well? Was it a different publication under an identical name?
Brian Stableford's Scientific Romance in Britain, 1890-1950 (pp. 151, 371) may contain a broad survey of the british pulp market which might include Fantasy but I don't have access to it. He's bearish on the prospects of the british pulp market in the era.
Contra Stableford, Richard Mathews says that the British pulp market was fairly robust in Fantasy: The Liberation of Imagination (p. 30)
Also of use may be Ultimate Island: On the Nature of British Science Fiction and British Science Fiction: A Chronology, 1478-1990, both by Nicholas Ruddick. Though I have no idea if they cover Fantasy
I added a couple of relevant Wikiprojects; I've also ordered some of the books (the Davin, the Barron, and both Ruddicks) and will add details from them when they arrive, if there's anything to add. I'd been meaning to get at least the first two of those for a while. Thanks for the promotion.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
15:02, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Magazines, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
magazines on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MagazinesWikipedia:WikiProject MagazinesTemplate:WikiProject Magazinesmagazine articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Science Fiction, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
science fiction on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Science FictionWikipedia:WikiProject Science FictionTemplate:WikiProject Science Fictionscience fiction articles
So there's not too much to talk about here. The article covers a narrow topic, does so fairly well and is referenced as well as one might hope, given the subject (see below for my largely vain attempts to find good resources outside of those listed in the article). I'd like to see it cover the impact (if there was one) of Fantasy on british sci-fi but there's only so much impact one could expect from a 3 issue run of a a magazine--a run which abutted against the second world war to boot.
If you have time and access to sources I'd like to see some of the sources I listed below incorporated into the article should they provide some novel information. However that's not a requirement and I think I can pass this article provided the style and content questions below are answered.
Howdy! Nice to talk to you. Thanks for picking this up. I'll go through your notes below and reply in more detail, but generally there's not much to say about the impact; pre-war British magazine sf died a-borning because of the war.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
02:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
Oh, one last thing. Can you find the appropriate wikiprojects for this and add talk page banners/assessments? If there aren't any (or they'd be too broad or too inactive) then don't worry about it but it might be valuable.
Protonk (
talk)
13:04, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
images
image looks great, NFC justification seems sound
style/layout
Should we wikilink the first appearance of "Newnes" in the lede? Also, should it be George Newnes Ltd. in the lede and Newnes elsewhere?
I'm not a huge fan of unnecessarily breaking out sections in short articles but might there be some benefit to splitting the sections on stories recieved, art and publication history?
Is there a reason aside from personal preference that we've split the footnotes and the references? Normally I see this where there are multiple references to distinct pages among a small set of references but here it's a 1:1 mapping.
No particular reason -- I used this style on
radiocarbon dating, which is the most recent major article I've worked on, and another editor with an academic background helped me make it consistent. Now I have the habit. I think I like it because the footnotes themselves are short, which seems simpler for the reader.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
02:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
lede summarizes the article fairly well
Would this topic benefit from a see also section? Is there a navigation template for sf magazines?
"The non-fiction piece, by P.E. Cleator, continued a series of articles he had published in Scoops..." which non-fiction piece? This sentence looks like it preceeded something else in a prior version.
Rephrased; the source doesn't give the title of the piece, just a description. I could pull the title from another source, but I don't have a reliable source to hand that gives it -- it's
this but the ISFDB doesn't qualify as an RS, sadly. I have the magazine itself, but it's hidden in a box somewhere in the basement. When it emerges I'll add the title. I suppose I could add it now and source the magazine -- what do you think? There's no real doubt that this is the title.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
02:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
Aside from "Vampire from the Void" are there any other particularly interesting or notable stories to have come out of Fantasy?
None that the sources mention. The closest is probably John Beynon's "Beyond the Screen", which is interesting only because Beynon is John Wyndham, who is well-known; but I already mention that. The story itself is unremarkable.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
02:26, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply
There's Michael Ashley's The History of the Science Fiction Magazine: 1936-1945 (which I don't see available online). You've got two other books by him so it's possible the material has been covered there
Neil Barron's Anatomy of Wonder contains a chapter on science fiction between the wars. I don't know if this covers Fantasy (as the name is a confounded search term)
Passing mention in a letter to the editor for Science Fiction Studies 13(1) 1986 (pp. 105) about Nils Frome not being as bummed about a particular story in Fantasy as he was w/ most other contemporary Sci Fi. Not much but I've searched through their archives for 30 minutes and I need something, that journal is interminable.
Eric Leif Davin in Partners in Wonder: Women and the Birth of Science Fiction, 1926-1965 (pp. 21-22) indicates (in passing only) that Fantasy ran in from 1946-1947 as well? Was it a different publication under an identical name?
Brian Stableford's Scientific Romance in Britain, 1890-1950 (pp. 151, 371) may contain a broad survey of the british pulp market which might include Fantasy but I don't have access to it. He's bearish on the prospects of the british pulp market in the era.
Contra Stableford, Richard Mathews says that the British pulp market was fairly robust in Fantasy: The Liberation of Imagination (p. 30)
Also of use may be Ultimate Island: On the Nature of British Science Fiction and British Science Fiction: A Chronology, 1478-1990, both by Nicholas Ruddick. Though I have no idea if they cover Fantasy
I added a couple of relevant Wikiprojects; I've also ordered some of the books (the Davin, the Barron, and both Ruddicks) and will add details from them when they arrive, if there's anything to add. I'd been meaning to get at least the first two of those for a while. Thanks for the promotion.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
15:02, 13 September 2014 (UTC)reply