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anime,
manga, and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Can someone please change the title to Fūma no Kojirō? That's the correct way of spelling the title. Oh, and Fuuma no Kojirou should also redirect here.--
Egocentrism0418:58, 3 October 2007 (UTC)reply
Done. It has been argued that this is not the official romanization used by the live action production company. The only evidence of "Fuuma no Kojirou" being used is for the website URL. I can find nothing else showing any romanization. Therefore,
WP:MOS-JA has been applied and the article is now at Fūma no Kojirō. ···
日本穣? ·
Talk to Nihonjoe05:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)reply
The official romanization is that by the live action series' production company, and this is the only romanization that exists by any Japanese company. I've moved this page back, and I would like it if there was a better reasoning directed towards me if there is a reason to have it at the Hepburn romanization.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
22:51, 20 October 2008 (UTC)reply
We don't use "Japanese companies" romanization, because they most likely don't use macrons, because that's a "direct" transliteration. We use the "most popular title" which is most likely "Fuuma no Kojirou", but I still think it should be "Fūma no Kojirō".
Moocowsrule (
talk)
02:57, 24 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrulereply
The Japanese production companies are the ones who decide what to name their shows in Japanese and English (to an extent). The Japanese production company for the drama chose "Fuuma no Kojirou" and not "Fuma no Kojiro" or "Fūma no Kojirō" for a reason.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
06:50, 24 October 2008 (UTC)reply
But they transliterate it literally. And not encycopædically (not a word)... But anyways we should use the most known title. I'm sure most translators who speak native Japanese don't have the BEST English... It should be "Fūma no Kojirō".
Moocowsrule (
talk)
21:24, 25 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrulereply
It's an official transliteration, regardless of it not being a word in English. The production company chose "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" and not the pairs "Fuuma" and "Kojiro;" "Fuma" and "Kojiro;" or "Fuma" and "Kojirou." Unless there's another transliteration that's been used, then this one should stay put.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
22:20, 25 October 2008 (UTC)reply
YOU STILL DON'T GET IT!!! WE DON'T USE THE JAPANESE TITLE!!! WE USE THE ENGLISH TITLE!!! And if there isn't an English title we use the most popular title.
WP:MJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read it.
There is no English title, which is why we use the closest name we can, until we find an official spelling in the English alphabet, which is what has happened here. It doesn't matter if "Fuma no Kojiro" is more popular than "Fuuma no Kojirou." It's that the production company for the drama chose "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" to be the English spellings when writing up the website. There are several instances where the "more popular name" as you put it is not used on Wikipedia in favor of the official name given by the production company or the Hepburn romanization name to match
WP:MOS-JA. In this situation, we have the official name given by the production company, and that is what should always be used.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
22:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Unless I interpreted this wrong, It should be "Fūma no Kojirō". "Japanese terms should be romanized according to most common usage in English, including unconventional romanization of titles and names by licensees (e.g., Devil Hunter Yohko and Tenjho Tenge—see below), and words used frequently in English (such as sumo or judo)." Meaning we use the most common usage in English, so we should therefore use "Fūma no Kojirō". Also it says this "1. Article titles should use macrons as specified for body text except in cases where the macronless spelling is in common usage in English-speaking countries (e.g., Tokyo, Sumo and Shinto, instead of Tōkyō, Sumō and Shintō).", last time I checked, Japan isn't an English speaking country. If you still disagree with me, we should put a comment on the
talk page... but I think I might be wrong... T~T
Moocowsrule (
talk)
22:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrulereply
Japanese companies are still licensees. And we have a Japanese company that's used "Fuuma" and "Kojirou." What is so hard to understand about that? This romanization is official within Japan. Who cares if it's an English transliteration within Japan? An official name is an official name.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
22:47, 27 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Just because the Japanese companies are still licensees it doesn't mean that that should be the official English title. Even if the Japanese company uses "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" doesn't mean Wikipedia should. What's so hard to understand about
that?
Moocowsrule (
talk)
03:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)moocowsulereply
I don't actually care one way or the other, so I'd be more neutral than anything else. I still hold that there isn't any "official" English romanization, and that the URL is not a reliable indication of an official English romanization. Be that as it may, since there are redirects in place, it doesn't really matter. So, just drop it, Moo. ···
日本穣? ·
Talk to Nihonjoe04:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Wait is this about the entire series, or is it about just the drama? If it's about the entire series then it should be "Fūma no Kojirō" rather than "Fuuma no Kojirou"...
わwaらraうuSmile!07:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Sweet baby Jesus. If the drama uses a specific Romanization, then it should cover the whole series. I have never seen something Japanese that uses a different Romanization between a manga, an anime, and a drama.
Kikaider is always "Kikaider" in Japan, be it the manga, the recent animated series, or the 70s children's show (except in Hawaii where they call him "Kikaida"). Stop bringing this up constantly, Moocowsrule.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
07:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
There's only one website URL that says "Fuuma no Kojirou", they can't put macrons in the URL. Where else do they use it? forums? If yes, then it should be changed emediatly, people just type it that way because its more convenient. As Wikipedians, we're supposed to teach people stuff, not inforce what they already know. That's pointless. –
J U M PG U R U■
ask㋐㋜㋗■02:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
If it is clearly the only use of the name in English, we should utilize it. I've tried to find if Toei has listed how they want the name of the show listed in English, but I've not. The best we have is the syndicated drama's name that does not call it "Fuma no Kojiro" or any variation that may make the use of macrons possible.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
02:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
But that's a flippin' URL! You can't put macrons in URLs! They had to choose between putting "fuuma-kojirou" of "fuma-kojiro". It is a complete matter of choise! They barely had any choise, and decided to use one of the two. That doesn't mean that was the official English title. –
J U M PG U R U■
ask㋐㋜㋗■04:18, 5 April 2009 (UTC)reply
But they don't use "Fuma no Kojiro" or any variation of that. And "Fuuma no Kojirou" is the only romanization we have, and that is what this article is using. It's been over a year since this discussion began. Unless you can find something that doesn't call it "Fuuma no Kojirou" in English, then stop bringing this up, please.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
04:24, 5 April 2009 (UTC)reply
This was started in 2007, answered in 2008, and then brought up by you, again, in 2009. Nothing else is going to come out of this. "Fuuma no Kojirou" is an official spelling and it's the only one that there is in the English alphabet, regardless of the fact that it comes from a URL. It's the URL they chose, and they could have chosen other ones. I've seen the use of macrons (although not in URLs). I've seen the use of other ways to indicate long vowels. Whoever bought the rights for this manga to turn into a drama chose it for a reason. And there cannot be possibly anything else that you can say that would go against
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Names of companies, products, and organizations. As far as I'm concerned, this is an official name just like the two examples listed there, and it is clearly determined by the URL name.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
06:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I'd say there's a difference between Kōdansha constantly spelling the company name as "Kodansha", and a romanization found in one URL... I don't think the latter really warrants an exception to the good old revised Hepburn romanization.
(an exception that also gives us stuff like "In 2003, Masami Kurumada authored an additional short story titled Fuuma no Kojirou: Ryūsei Ansatsuchō.")
That is the only other instance of the series referred to as "Fuma" I've seen. Still, "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" are the only romanizations that have been found other than using Hepburn. And that's one of Toho's pages. The show's rights are owned by Toei from all I can find.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
11:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
that's one of Toho's pages. The show's rights are owned by Toei from all I can find.
But yet "Casshern" is what is universally used for the subject. And that is different from the use of "Fuuma no Kojirou" and "Fūma no Kojirō" or "Fuma no Kojiro" (the latter of which I am finding has more google hits). Still, "Fuuma no Kojirou" is the closest there is for the English speaking world for an official transliteration, because as far as I know there is no official English language release of the series.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
11:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
But yet "Casshern" is what is universally used for the subject
Well, that's the one they've been using lately. But before the live-action movie...
Still, "Fuuma no Kojirou" is the closest there is for the English speaking world for an official transliteration
Would you stop quoting and taking apart every single post I make? And "Casshern" has always been the chosen transliteration, and other than that one instance of "Fuma", there's nothing else that's from a Japanese company.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
13:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
"Casshern" has always been the chosen transliteration
Not always. That was my point, even.
And you're downplaying the "Fuma" because it's just "one instance"? Couldn't the exact same thing be said about the other URL?
Erigu (
talk)
13:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Well, clearly that means it should be "Fuuma" and "Fuma" was a mistake. Clearly. Survival of the fittest and all that.
I found those:
"KOJIRO" and
"FUMA NO KOJIROU"[2]. 'Doesn't look like they're particularly adamant about the way long "u" or "o" sounds should be romanized. But hey, those are VHS. Pretty much an extinct format. So that doesn't count.Erigu (
talk)
14:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Since we've established that there are several different official romanizations for the title of this series, I see no reason to stick with "Fuuma no Kojirou" specifically instead of simply using the revised Hepburn "Fūma no Kojirō". I'm moving the article.
Erigu (
talk)
09:06, 23 June 2009 (UTC)reply
tvnihon.com/tracker... the guys who did the subbing for the show list it as "Fuuma no Kojirou" Obviously they're fluent enough with English to ad subs to hundreds of series but we sit here and argue about whether or not we should put some lines above letters instead of taking the direct translation from the guys who sub it for us? My other argument is also that, I personally and plenty of others, don't know how to google search for things with weird symbols above the letter, such as "ū" and "ō" (copy and paste from above). So why not make it easy for everyone and use letters that are actually on the keyboard? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Philsberry (
talk •
contribs)
20:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tokusatsu, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Tokusatsu on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TokusatsuWikipedia:WikiProject TokusatsuTemplate:WikiProject TokusatsuTokusatsu articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anime and manga, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
anime,
manga, and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Anime and mangaWikipedia:WikiProject Anime and mangaTemplate:WikiProject Anime and mangaanime and manga articles
Can someone please change the title to Fūma no Kojirō? That's the correct way of spelling the title. Oh, and Fuuma no Kojirou should also redirect here.--
Egocentrism0418:58, 3 October 2007 (UTC)reply
Done. It has been argued that this is not the official romanization used by the live action production company. The only evidence of "Fuuma no Kojirou" being used is for the website URL. I can find nothing else showing any romanization. Therefore,
WP:MOS-JA has been applied and the article is now at Fūma no Kojirō. ···
日本穣? ·
Talk to Nihonjoe05:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)reply
The official romanization is that by the live action series' production company, and this is the only romanization that exists by any Japanese company. I've moved this page back, and I would like it if there was a better reasoning directed towards me if there is a reason to have it at the Hepburn romanization.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
22:51, 20 October 2008 (UTC)reply
We don't use "Japanese companies" romanization, because they most likely don't use macrons, because that's a "direct" transliteration. We use the "most popular title" which is most likely "Fuuma no Kojirou", but I still think it should be "Fūma no Kojirō".
Moocowsrule (
talk)
02:57, 24 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrulereply
The Japanese production companies are the ones who decide what to name their shows in Japanese and English (to an extent). The Japanese production company for the drama chose "Fuuma no Kojirou" and not "Fuma no Kojiro" or "Fūma no Kojirō" for a reason.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
06:50, 24 October 2008 (UTC)reply
But they transliterate it literally. And not encycopædically (not a word)... But anyways we should use the most known title. I'm sure most translators who speak native Japanese don't have the BEST English... It should be "Fūma no Kojirō".
Moocowsrule (
talk)
21:24, 25 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrulereply
It's an official transliteration, regardless of it not being a word in English. The production company chose "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" and not the pairs "Fuuma" and "Kojiro;" "Fuma" and "Kojiro;" or "Fuma" and "Kojirou." Unless there's another transliteration that's been used, then this one should stay put.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
22:20, 25 October 2008 (UTC)reply
YOU STILL DON'T GET IT!!! WE DON'T USE THE JAPANESE TITLE!!! WE USE THE ENGLISH TITLE!!! And if there isn't an English title we use the most popular title.
WP:MJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read it.
There is no English title, which is why we use the closest name we can, until we find an official spelling in the English alphabet, which is what has happened here. It doesn't matter if "Fuma no Kojiro" is more popular than "Fuuma no Kojirou." It's that the production company for the drama chose "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" to be the English spellings when writing up the website. There are several instances where the "more popular name" as you put it is not used on Wikipedia in favor of the official name given by the production company or the Hepburn romanization name to match
WP:MOS-JA. In this situation, we have the official name given by the production company, and that is what should always be used.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
22:20, 26 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Unless I interpreted this wrong, It should be "Fūma no Kojirō". "Japanese terms should be romanized according to most common usage in English, including unconventional romanization of titles and names by licensees (e.g., Devil Hunter Yohko and Tenjho Tenge—see below), and words used frequently in English (such as sumo or judo)." Meaning we use the most common usage in English, so we should therefore use "Fūma no Kojirō". Also it says this "1. Article titles should use macrons as specified for body text except in cases where the macronless spelling is in common usage in English-speaking countries (e.g., Tokyo, Sumo and Shinto, instead of Tōkyō, Sumō and Shintō).", last time I checked, Japan isn't an English speaking country. If you still disagree with me, we should put a comment on the
talk page... but I think I might be wrong... T~T
Moocowsrule (
talk)
22:22, 27 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrulereply
Japanese companies are still licensees. And we have a Japanese company that's used "Fuuma" and "Kojirou." What is so hard to understand about that? This romanization is official within Japan. Who cares if it's an English transliteration within Japan? An official name is an official name.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
22:47, 27 October 2008 (UTC)reply
Just because the Japanese companies are still licensees it doesn't mean that that should be the official English title. Even if the Japanese company uses "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" doesn't mean Wikipedia should. What's so hard to understand about
that?
Moocowsrule (
talk)
03:13, 10 November 2008 (UTC)moocowsulereply
I don't actually care one way or the other, so I'd be more neutral than anything else. I still hold that there isn't any "official" English romanization, and that the URL is not a reliable indication of an official English romanization. Be that as it may, since there are redirects in place, it doesn't really matter. So, just drop it, Moo. ···
日本穣? ·
Talk to Nihonjoe04:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Wait is this about the entire series, or is it about just the drama? If it's about the entire series then it should be "Fūma no Kojirō" rather than "Fuuma no Kojirou"...
わwaらraうuSmile!07:12, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
Sweet baby Jesus. If the drama uses a specific Romanization, then it should cover the whole series. I have never seen something Japanese that uses a different Romanization between a manga, an anime, and a drama.
Kikaider is always "Kikaider" in Japan, be it the manga, the recent animated series, or the 70s children's show (except in Hawaii where they call him "Kikaida"). Stop bringing this up constantly, Moocowsrule.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
07:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)reply
There's only one website URL that says "Fuuma no Kojirou", they can't put macrons in the URL. Where else do they use it? forums? If yes, then it should be changed emediatly, people just type it that way because its more convenient. As Wikipedians, we're supposed to teach people stuff, not inforce what they already know. That's pointless. –
J U M PG U R U■
ask㋐㋜㋗■02:16, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
If it is clearly the only use of the name in English, we should utilize it. I've tried to find if Toei has listed how they want the name of the show listed in English, but I've not. The best we have is the syndicated drama's name that does not call it "Fuma no Kojiro" or any variation that may make the use of macrons possible.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
02:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)reply
But that's a flippin' URL! You can't put macrons in URLs! They had to choose between putting "fuuma-kojirou" of "fuma-kojiro". It is a complete matter of choise! They barely had any choise, and decided to use one of the two. That doesn't mean that was the official English title. –
J U M PG U R U■
ask㋐㋜㋗■04:18, 5 April 2009 (UTC)reply
But they don't use "Fuma no Kojiro" or any variation of that. And "Fuuma no Kojirou" is the only romanization we have, and that is what this article is using. It's been over a year since this discussion began. Unless you can find something that doesn't call it "Fuuma no Kojirou" in English, then stop bringing this up, please.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
04:24, 5 April 2009 (UTC)reply
This was started in 2007, answered in 2008, and then brought up by you, again, in 2009. Nothing else is going to come out of this. "Fuuma no Kojirou" is an official spelling and it's the only one that there is in the English alphabet, regardless of the fact that it comes from a URL. It's the URL they chose, and they could have chosen other ones. I've seen the use of macrons (although not in URLs). I've seen the use of other ways to indicate long vowels. Whoever bought the rights for this manga to turn into a drama chose it for a reason. And there cannot be possibly anything else that you can say that would go against
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Names of companies, products, and organizations. As far as I'm concerned, this is an official name just like the two examples listed there, and it is clearly determined by the URL name.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
06:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I'd say there's a difference between Kōdansha constantly spelling the company name as "Kodansha", and a romanization found in one URL... I don't think the latter really warrants an exception to the good old revised Hepburn romanization.
(an exception that also gives us stuff like "In 2003, Masami Kurumada authored an additional short story titled Fuuma no Kojirou: Ryūsei Ansatsuchō.")
That is the only other instance of the series referred to as "Fuma" I've seen. Still, "Fuuma" and "Kojirou" are the only romanizations that have been found other than using Hepburn. And that's one of Toho's pages. The show's rights are owned by Toei from all I can find.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
11:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
that's one of Toho's pages. The show's rights are owned by Toei from all I can find.
But yet "Casshern" is what is universally used for the subject. And that is different from the use of "Fuuma no Kojirou" and "Fūma no Kojirō" or "Fuma no Kojiro" (the latter of which I am finding has more google hits). Still, "Fuuma no Kojirou" is the closest there is for the English speaking world for an official transliteration, because as far as I know there is no official English language release of the series.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
11:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
But yet "Casshern" is what is universally used for the subject
Well, that's the one they've been using lately. But before the live-action movie...
Still, "Fuuma no Kojirou" is the closest there is for the English speaking world for an official transliteration
Would you stop quoting and taking apart every single post I make? And "Casshern" has always been the chosen transliteration, and other than that one instance of "Fuma", there's nothing else that's from a Japanese company.—
Ryūlóng (
竜龙)
13:17, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
"Casshern" has always been the chosen transliteration
Not always. That was my point, even.
And you're downplaying the "Fuma" because it's just "one instance"? Couldn't the exact same thing be said about the other URL?
Erigu (
talk)
13:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Well, clearly that means it should be "Fuuma" and "Fuma" was a mistake. Clearly. Survival of the fittest and all that.
I found those:
"KOJIRO" and
"FUMA NO KOJIROU"[2]. 'Doesn't look like they're particularly adamant about the way long "u" or "o" sounds should be romanized. But hey, those are VHS. Pretty much an extinct format. So that doesn't count.Erigu (
talk)
14:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Since we've established that there are several different official romanizations for the title of this series, I see no reason to stick with "Fuuma no Kojirou" specifically instead of simply using the revised Hepburn "Fūma no Kojirō". I'm moving the article.
Erigu (
talk)
09:06, 23 June 2009 (UTC)reply
tvnihon.com/tracker... the guys who did the subbing for the show list it as "Fuuma no Kojirou" Obviously they're fluent enough with English to ad subs to hundreds of series but we sit here and argue about whether or not we should put some lines above letters instead of taking the direct translation from the guys who sub it for us? My other argument is also that, I personally and plenty of others, don't know how to google search for things with weird symbols above the letter, such as "ū" and "ō" (copy and paste from above). So why not make it easy for everyone and use letters that are actually on the keyboard? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Philsberry (
talk •
contribs)
20:37, 26 October 2009 (UTC)reply