There are a number of short sections, and the sections themselves could be better grouped. The lead needs development per WP:Lead. There are a number of statements that could be queried, but are unsourced - such as "Every year there are asparagus auctions", "Further features of local language give rise to variations in the pronunciation of the town's name", "The nearest major airport is Birmingham International", etc. The Notable people section needs writing up in prose. The history of the foundation is presenting legend as fact. Though the foundation is shrouded in legend, this source does give more information, and does make it clearer what is fact and what is fiction. The Battle of Evesham is significant enough for there to be more information about it - it should be mentioned in the lead, and should have a section on it. I think there is a fair amount of work to do, so I don't want to take this on as reviewer at the moment. SilkTork * YES! 17:21, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Dana boomer ( talk) 14:08, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi! Thank you for the kind invitation to review this article. First, let me say that some of the comments that SilkTork posted on the talk page are quite valid, and should probably have been given more attention than the rather dismissive reply they received. Just because they didn't place them on the "official" review page does not mean that they are not valid, and editors should be willing to at least consider all comments in their quest to improve the article. Initial comments shortly...
Here are a few of my initial comments. There is a good bit of work that is needed, and so I am putting the article on hold to allow these issues to be addressed. I haven't had a thorough look at prose yet, and more issues will possibly rise to the surface as the ones above are taken care of. Dana boomer ( talk) 14:38, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
More comments
This is from only checking parts of a couple of sources! Every single reference needs to be gone through and checked, and my first instinct is to fail this article right now. However, I will keep it on hold for the moment, to give you some time to respond.
Dana boomer (
talk)
15:49, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
This section:
After the Dissolution of the Monasteries of 1540 to the end of the 17th century, the town's economy depended on the cloth trade, especially trade in finished articles – caps, collars and gloves.<ref name="Cromwell"/> The town received a royal charter in 1603.<ref name="Cromwell"/> As an important stage on the route from [[Oxford]], it served as a royal garrison during the [[English Civil War]]. The town remained in the hands of the [[Royalists]]<ref name="Cromwell"/> until May 1645 when it was taken and occupied by [[Edward Massie|Colonel Edward Massey]] with a large force of [[Oliver Cromwell|Cromwellian]] troops from the garrison in Gloucester and remained in [[Roundhead|Parliamentary]] possession for the rest of the [[Interregnum (England)|Interregnum]].<ref name="Cromwell">{{cite web |url=http://www.olivercromwell.org/evesham.htm |title=Cromwellian Britain - Evesham, Worcestershire |publisher=The Cromwell Association |accessdate=8 October 2010}} </ref>
and this section:
During the 19th century market gardens on rich fertile soil were established around the town, and horticulture became the main industry. Asparagus and other vegetables were extensively cultivated. Along the river were two corn-mills and a mill for extracting oil from linseed. There were two factories making ribbon.<ref name=tde/>
Kudpung ( talk) 15:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
There is still some major work that needs to happen on this article, so I'm wondering about the main editors' thoughts on closing the review and letting the article be re-nominated when the editors have a chance to put more time into it. Currently, the history section is missing the last several hundred years, there are still unreferenced areas, mis-spellings and poor grammar/punctuation are easily found, the lead still needs to be expanded, and these are just issues that I found in a quick scan. This review has been open for more than a month, and the editors don't seem to have the time to devote to it at this point, as evidenced by the non-existent work since the day after I brought up serious copyvios. Dana boomer ( talk) 18:04, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello again Dana, and thanks for your initial comments. I agree with you, this article will take some work, but let's see how far we can get. I've made a start on the history section - the paragraphs are now in chronological order, and I've folded the abbey section into the main text. I think we still need some expansion here - as I understand it, Evesham was once one of the major abbeys in the country, but I don't remember where I read that (!). Does anyone have a source? Done
I think we should also say something about the 'Evesham Custom'. It is relevant because it explains why Evesham became such a centre for market gardening. There is a good description
here, although I'm not sure this counts as a reliable source. Again, does anyone have good sources? Done
For the notable people section, an introductory sentence is difficult - all these people really have in common is Evesham! I've looked around a few pages for other towns - most simply give a list with no introduction. In fact, the only one I could find with an introduction is
Malvern, Worcestershire, written by Kudpung.
GyroMagician (
talk)
08:10, 10 January 2011 (UTC) Done
I know I'm a bit late here, but I concur. Although I found a citation for this, the sole purpose of that exercise was to replace a contentious citation with something more substantive. I'll often address that issue separately from the issue of "should content X be in article Y" for a number of reasons. Among them are: (1) oftentimes people just utilise whatever citation they can find, and since I'm particularly good at finding information, part of my task is to demonstrate how to do this; (2) having found a more reliable citation, the question can then be addressed of whether information X belongs. One reason (but not the only reason) for this approach is that sometimes the standard of information in a Wikipedia article is an artifact of the source/s utilised. By improving the source, one allows a broader approach to the 'keep/don't keep' question, by allowing for expansion, improvement, or alteration of the text in question, if the desire is to keep. Further to this, oftentimes I may edit an article on something that is closer to other editor's hearts than to mine. This being the case, I prefer to expand on the options and leave some sorts of editing and dialogues alone. Wotnow ( talk) 23:39, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
There are a number of short sections, and the sections themselves could be better grouped. The lead needs development per WP:Lead. There are a number of statements that could be queried, but are unsourced - such as "Every year there are asparagus auctions", "Further features of local language give rise to variations in the pronunciation of the town's name", "The nearest major airport is Birmingham International", etc. The Notable people section needs writing up in prose. The history of the foundation is presenting legend as fact. Though the foundation is shrouded in legend, this source does give more information, and does make it clearer what is fact and what is fiction. The Battle of Evesham is significant enough for there to be more information about it - it should be mentioned in the lead, and should have a section on it. I think there is a fair amount of work to do, so I don't want to take this on as reviewer at the moment. SilkTork * YES! 17:21, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Dana boomer ( talk) 14:08, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi! Thank you for the kind invitation to review this article. First, let me say that some of the comments that SilkTork posted on the talk page are quite valid, and should probably have been given more attention than the rather dismissive reply they received. Just because they didn't place them on the "official" review page does not mean that they are not valid, and editors should be willing to at least consider all comments in their quest to improve the article. Initial comments shortly...
Here are a few of my initial comments. There is a good bit of work that is needed, and so I am putting the article on hold to allow these issues to be addressed. I haven't had a thorough look at prose yet, and more issues will possibly rise to the surface as the ones above are taken care of. Dana boomer ( talk) 14:38, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
More comments
This is from only checking parts of a couple of sources! Every single reference needs to be gone through and checked, and my first instinct is to fail this article right now. However, I will keep it on hold for the moment, to give you some time to respond.
Dana boomer (
talk)
15:49, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
This section:
After the Dissolution of the Monasteries of 1540 to the end of the 17th century, the town's economy depended on the cloth trade, especially trade in finished articles – caps, collars and gloves.<ref name="Cromwell"/> The town received a royal charter in 1603.<ref name="Cromwell"/> As an important stage on the route from [[Oxford]], it served as a royal garrison during the [[English Civil War]]. The town remained in the hands of the [[Royalists]]<ref name="Cromwell"/> until May 1645 when it was taken and occupied by [[Edward Massie|Colonel Edward Massey]] with a large force of [[Oliver Cromwell|Cromwellian]] troops from the garrison in Gloucester and remained in [[Roundhead|Parliamentary]] possession for the rest of the [[Interregnum (England)|Interregnum]].<ref name="Cromwell">{{cite web |url=http://www.olivercromwell.org/evesham.htm |title=Cromwellian Britain - Evesham, Worcestershire |publisher=The Cromwell Association |accessdate=8 October 2010}} </ref>
and this section:
During the 19th century market gardens on rich fertile soil were established around the town, and horticulture became the main industry. Asparagus and other vegetables were extensively cultivated. Along the river were two corn-mills and a mill for extracting oil from linseed. There were two factories making ribbon.<ref name=tde/>
Kudpung ( talk) 15:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
There is still some major work that needs to happen on this article, so I'm wondering about the main editors' thoughts on closing the review and letting the article be re-nominated when the editors have a chance to put more time into it. Currently, the history section is missing the last several hundred years, there are still unreferenced areas, mis-spellings and poor grammar/punctuation are easily found, the lead still needs to be expanded, and these are just issues that I found in a quick scan. This review has been open for more than a month, and the editors don't seem to have the time to devote to it at this point, as evidenced by the non-existent work since the day after I brought up serious copyvios. Dana boomer ( talk) 18:04, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello again Dana, and thanks for your initial comments. I agree with you, this article will take some work, but let's see how far we can get. I've made a start on the history section - the paragraphs are now in chronological order, and I've folded the abbey section into the main text. I think we still need some expansion here - as I understand it, Evesham was once one of the major abbeys in the country, but I don't remember where I read that (!). Does anyone have a source? Done
I think we should also say something about the 'Evesham Custom'. It is relevant because it explains why Evesham became such a centre for market gardening. There is a good description
here, although I'm not sure this counts as a reliable source. Again, does anyone have good sources? Done
For the notable people section, an introductory sentence is difficult - all these people really have in common is Evesham! I've looked around a few pages for other towns - most simply give a list with no introduction. In fact, the only one I could find with an introduction is
Malvern, Worcestershire, written by Kudpung.
GyroMagician (
talk)
08:10, 10 January 2011 (UTC) Done
I know I'm a bit late here, but I concur. Although I found a citation for this, the sole purpose of that exercise was to replace a contentious citation with something more substantive. I'll often address that issue separately from the issue of "should content X be in article Y" for a number of reasons. Among them are: (1) oftentimes people just utilise whatever citation they can find, and since I'm particularly good at finding information, part of my task is to demonstrate how to do this; (2) having found a more reliable citation, the question can then be addressed of whether information X belongs. One reason (but not the only reason) for this approach is that sometimes the standard of information in a Wikipedia article is an artifact of the source/s utilised. By improving the source, one allows a broader approach to the 'keep/don't keep' question, by allowing for expansion, improvement, or alteration of the text in question, if the desire is to keep. Further to this, oftentimes I may edit an article on something that is closer to other editor's hearts than to mine. This being the case, I prefer to expand on the options and leave some sorts of editing and dialogues alone. Wotnow ( talk) 23:39, 13 January 2011 (UTC)