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17:32, 20 August 2007 66.108.111.61 (Talk) (21,500 bytes) (→Criticism and Controversy - Removed partisan language) (undo) Why would it be "partisan language" to state that "Their actual goals are unclear" based on the fact that the CDC has been unable to find a single law out of ~26,000 that supports their position? This makes their actual goals very unclear to me, as they are either 1. dumber than dirt, or 2. have some other goal (most probably gathering power for themselves, but that's speculation on my part, so I left it out). If I don't see a response I'll revert your change in a few days.
The James Pasco quote makes no sense. Was he misquoted or did he actually say that? If the latter, it should be deleted, as an incoherent quote adds nothing to an encyclopedic entry. Patricia Meadows ( talk) 01:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
I dont understand the arguement here. How are these criminals obtaining guns? If im not mistaken they go to a gun store fill out paper work and if they qualify/pass tests they can purchase a gun? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.236.243 ( talk) 23:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Since the question has been asked and stood since 29 Dec 2008:
U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Justice Statistics
Firearms Use by Offenders
(Sample: nationwide sample of prison inmates who possessed a firearm during the offense for which they were imprisoned)
2004 Source of firearms possessed by state prison inmates at time of offense
-
11.3% Retail Purchase or trade
_7.3 - Retail store
_2.6 - Pawnshop
_0.6 - Flea market
_0.8 - Gun show
-
37.4% Family or friend
12.2 - Purchased or traded
14.1 - Rented or borrowed
11.1 - Other
-
40.0% Street/illegal source
_7.5 - Theft or burglary
25.2 - Drug dealer/off street
_7.4 - Fence/black market
-
11.2% Other source
-
I would point out that family or friends supplying guns to criminals are often criminals too. They, and the thieves, burglars, fences, black marketeers, drug dealers, street dealers, etc., don't do background checks on criminals before supplying them with guns. Somehow, the Universal Background Check law is supposed to make them do it. By requiring them to voluntarily go to a federall firearms license holder (gun dealer) and pay $55 to have an NICS background check run and the transfer recorded on a Federal Form 4473. The 11+% Retail purchase or trade is usually done by having a friend, relative, lover, or other associate of the criminal with a clean record make the purchase for them (straw purchaser for actual buyer). --
Naaman Brown (
talk) 22:12, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
This section is getting so lengthy, that perhaps it would be appropriate to break it up into a bulleted list. Your thoughts? Trasel ( talk) 16:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. I'm deleting the section as soon as I can. This entire page is garbage and needs a total re-write from the ground-up. Yoursfaithfully ( talk) 03:15, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
This section has no relevance whatsoever. In an organization consisting of more than 450 members at this point, the fact that a handful of them have been indicted on some type of charge is insignificant. It's unclear what inference is being made here... Is the author suggesting that every policy ever supported by these mayors is somehow now in question, or that the Founders of Mayors Against Illegal Guns have expressed public support for criminal behavior, or that this behavior in some way implicates the mission of an organization of which they are one small part? Like the rest of the content on this page, this section doesn't even make a pretense in hiding its bias. Wikipedia's Neutrality rules have clearly been violated here. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 20:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
There is not even a pretense of objectivity here. The article reads like an attack piece and veers off on a number of tangents that have nothing to do with the organization or its mission. I agree with Yoursfaithfully. This article needs to be rewritten from scratch, in observation of Wikipedia's rules on Neutrality. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 14:31, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Is the Indicted, convicted, and scandalized members section of this article, which lists former and current [mayor] members with felony convictions and misdemeanors (unrelated to firearms), and public scandals (related to firearms) belong to this article about this organization? His male lover ( talk) 02:08, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Oh, and FWIW, many of the mentions of the various felonies and firearms-related scandals (all referenced) were imported from individual bio (BLP) pages on the individual Mayors, where they have stood the test of time, consensus and group edits. See, for example, the page on Mayor Jennings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Jennings (There, scroll down to the word "machineguns".)
If the consensus view is that the article requires balance, then by all means, lets ADD some details on the good works and crime fighting achievements of other Mayor-Members, rather than just hacking and slashing a section that has nearly 50 referenced news articles and 30+ wikilinks. Trasel ( talk)
The six footnotes sourcing the Mayors_Against_Illegal_Guns_Coalition#Announced_resignations section all have problems. The first three point to dead URL links. The fourth points to a press release by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry lobby group, which is really not a reliable source per Wikipedia standards. The fifth and sixth, rely on BuckeyeFirearms.org appears to be a blog, and not up to WP:RS standards. Can someone please provide better quality sourcing for each of the mayors which are claimed to have resigned from MAIG? Thanks. SaltyBoatr ( talk) 00:54, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
No comments? I guess that is because someone completely deleted the section. The axe tends to discourage debate. Here is what I propose: That I re-write the section, using ONLY newspaper references, and PDF links to the original resignation letters. After all, Salty's reasoning was based on claims the section had poor references. (I had taken the time to add about 10 references, but even though most of those were from newspapers, the entire section was blanked.) Your thoughts? Trasel ( talk) 16:17, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
There is a double standard in operation in the editing of this article. See Reference # 10, for example: "Full text of current Tiahrt Amendment From ProtectPolice.org, a project of Mayors Against Illegal Guns." That is a PDF is at the web site of the MAIG, albeit the subject of this article, is a partisan organization. By your stated standards, this PDF would not be allowed as a reference. Trasel ( talk) 03:02, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Some former mayors are still listed on the MAIG web site, but TTBOMK, that is an error. Given the many recent embarrassments of felony indicted and convicted individuals that have been booted out of office, one must wonder why the MAIG would see it in their best interest to continue to list former mayors. Part of the problem may be, that the MAIG would have to account for the reason that they have departed--other than just leaving their mayoral offices. As previously discussed, some mayors have quit the MAIG, or claimed that they never joined.
But then there are these individuals:
In summary, How do we reconcile accounting for the whereabouts and membership status of former mayors, while still remaining neutral? Should we put "(In Federal Custody)" after their names in the list? Or would "A Guest of the Taxpayers" be more NPOV?
And how can the wiki page have TWO mayors of Philadelphia listed--both the current mayor and his predecessor, the former mayor? Just curious... Trasel ( talk) 15:14, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
The content on this page has been improved, but there is still a great deal of irrelevant content here. There are long sections here discussing the Tiahrt Amendments and Lost and Stolen Guns. If it is necessary to explore these issues in depth, that should be done on separate pages created for that purpose. The topic of this article is "Mayors Against Illegal Guns." The discussion here should focus on the organization itself. If there is general controversy about MAIG's mission, that should be handled in a single section that states who has criticized the group and on what grounds. It is odd, for example, that the article currently lists mayors who have left the group (a small number) before linking to the group's current, overall membership (a large number). Thanks to those who have worked to improve the content here. The final goal should be a neutral presentation that lays out the facts and avoids tertiary issues. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 16:19, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Trasel, with all due respect you recently wrote in the Discussion area of the Gun Show page:
"By creating a hobgoblin [the Gun Show Loophole issue], the the Brady Campaign, VPC, et al, have attempted to implement the Hegelian dialectic, to meet their political end, This is a classic political ploy: They create a false "crisis", and their "solution" is the implementation of their originally desired political goal. The loser, at the end of the day, is liberty. By incrementally destroying constitutional liberty, statists hope to accomplish over the course of a century something that they could never do overnight ... By calling free and legal commerce a "loophole"--which creates subconscious links to people that cheat on their taxes--they sought to demonize one of the cornerstones of American life--the ability to buy or sell household goods , at will, with or without profit, in INTRAstate commerce, without government regulation, and without paying homage to any entrenched guild, or fill out any "paperwork", or get "permission" from a bureau or agency or government. This same commerce is the last bastion of free, undocumented firearms ownership, which is anathema to gun controllers. They want to see the advent universal registration of firearms, and the very thought of private citizens buying and selling firearms freely amongst themselves does not fit with their world view, and their agenda for civilian disarmament. (After all, there can not be effective eventual confiscation of firearms, if some of them are not registered.)"
I think we all have personal points of view, the more important issue is do we observe Wikipedia's rules and attempt to craft articles here that are balanced, neutral and based on reliable sources? I welcome the opportunity to work with you on this article to create such content. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 20:28, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
I checked the sources provided for some of the legislative goals here, and they do not provide any evidence that MAIG has advocated for the following reforms: 1) Mandatory reporting of lost and stolen guns, 2) Purchase permits for all handgun sales, 3) Local control of firearms regulations, and 4) State inspection of gun dealers. In the case of the latter three, MAIG's report notes that states that have these laws export fewer crime guns to outside states, but they do not call for these reforms to be implemented. The reforms that are explicitly called for at the federal level on the MAIG webpage are: 1) Repealing Tiahrt Amendment, 2) Closing Gun Show Loophole, 3) Ending gun dealer fire sales, 4) Banning firearm sales to those on the Terrorist Watch List, 5) Employee background checks at licensed gun dealers, 6) Opposition to Thune Amendment. The article continues to move in the right direction, but there is still a lot of debate about specific issues that does not belong in this article. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 19:36, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
As recommended, I've just done some reorganizing. First, I grouped the legislative lobbying items together and added an introductory sentence for that section (with a new reference to a MAIG PDF). Second, I moved down the criticism section to the end of the article to de-emphasize it. Lastly, I re-wrote a number of sentences that were convoluted and laden with passive voice and lacked clarity. I trust that I did all of the preceding with sufficient neutrality. Trasel ( talk) 06:36, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, but you are wrong here. The USA Today article makes no mention of MAIG, and your usage of it here is pure synthesis to make a POV hypothesis which is your original research. Also, the Ammoland.com cite in the opening paragraph is a huge stretch, as they barely are a reliable source per WP standards (I am presently favoring removal of all the Ammoland.com cited material now for this reason) And worse, the Ammoland.com article does not coherently "dispute" the membership numbers anyway, but rather uses innuendo and no more. Those two sentences in the intro don't really fit the WP:LS guidelines. SaltyBoatr ( talk) 04:30, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
I have improved the list of references to this section as follows. There were several repeated refs which were included in duplicate, now removed. I also removed two passages which were referenced to primary documents, which is prohibited by Wikipedia policy WP:NOR. Reading an original letter and writing about it in Wikipedia is a form of original research. I removed one ref which pointed to an "ammoland" blog, which after further thought does not meet the WP:V standard which require us to use sources which are considered to be reliable as measured by the publishers reputation for fact checking and accuracy. Ammoland has an obscure publication process and doesn't meet this reliability standard. I removed the reference to the Time-Union article because mayor Ernie Wiggams claims that he did not resign, but that he never joined, therefore this is not a resignation. I also removed the ref for the "TheTimesNews.com" article because it does not actually say that mayor Ronnie Wall resigned. And after carefully checking these references I cannot agree that the title of this section should be simply 'criticisms', and there is a commonality in all of these refs which is that they all are linked to the NRA-ILA and NSSF campaigns to pressure mayors. Considering that both of these groups self identify as "gun lobby" groups, I object to the change [1] of the section title. We should call a spade a spade here, based on this reliable sourcing, this is gun lobby criticism and the title should reflect such. SaltyBoatr ( talk) 01:22, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
I deleted the recently added assertion that 73 members of MAIG have quit the Coalition because it was improperly cited and clearly in error. The local Knoxsville television network that was cited stated that an NRA spokesman said that "73 out of Florida's 450 mayors have quit the group." That is clearly an error because nowhere near 450 Florida mayors ever joined MAIG in the first place. Currently, 39 Florida mayors are members of MAIG: http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/members/members.shtml Forward Thinkers ( talk) 14:06, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Hamitr recently reverted [2] with the comment "(The source says nothing about: "dozens of mayors have joined the organization while the resignations have been a trickle") See the NYSun article at [3] Quoting from the last paragraph in the article:"Though dozens of mayors have joined Mayors Against Illegal Guns in the last several months, there has also been a trickle of mayors leaving the coalition." Clearly, Hamitr's reasoning appears unfounded, as the sourcing does indeed support the passage. SaltyBoatr ( talk) 04:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Can we get a source for the claim that "more than 70 mayors have left MAIG"? The NRA website continues to claim "more than 40," but does not specify who they are. We need a definitive source. Thanks. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 17:16, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Clearly in reliable sourcing, a significant subtopic of this article topic is the 2009 letter writing campaign pressuring mayors. And per Wikipedia guidelines, the section titles should describe the topic of the section, therefore I have restored the title "NRA pressure campaign". SaltyBoatr ( talk) 15:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
See above. Especially that entire legislative initiatives section. Jtrainor ( talk) 09:31, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Is the idea behind the campaign to reduce illegal gun violence by criminals? Or to make it harder for law-abiding civilians to defend themselves from criminals?
Generally, debates on "gun control" issue assume that "guns" are the problem; and that increasing restrictions on gun purchase or gun possession will reduce illegal gun violence. The typical argument goes something like this:
Proponents of this sort of argument seem to assume that illegal gun violence rises and falls in proportion to the number of guns we possess. Opponents generally state (explicitly) that they think illegal gun violence is not in proportion to gun ownership in general, but depends on how many guns are in the hands of criminals and law abiding citizens.
Is there a way to describe this neutrally and fairly in the article? For example, can we say that MAIG's purpose is to reduce illegal gun violence? And if so, can we describe how they feel their campaign will serve that purpose?
We might compare this to MADD, which has campaigned to penalize drunk driving. Their purpose is explicitly stated: they want to reduce accidental deaths resulting from drunk drivers losing control of their cars. I'd like to know what MAIG's purpose is, too. -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 20:16, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
I added a new section to the article, about a recent incident where Sam Jones, the mayor of Mobile and a member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, discovered a burglar in his garage and held the intruder at gunpoint until the police arrived. According to reliable news sources it is not known whether or not Mayor Jones was carrying the gun concealed outside of his property, or if he has a concealed carry license, but he has not been charged with any crime. I provided two reliable references for this, CBS News and the Press-Register. This change, along with some other material, was removed with this edit. I believe the material that I added should be restored. The use of firearms by the members of this organization, including their apparently legal use in self-defense, is relevant to the subject of this article. Other editors are invited to share their views. — Mudwater ( Talk) 01:44, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone care to chime in here? /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_members_of_the_Mayors_Against_Illegal_Guns_Coalition SoTotallyAwesome ( talk) 03:15, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
I am dismayed to see that four reliably sourced sections were deleted. Elected officials are held to high standards, and when they fail to meet those standards, it is newsworthy. It is also worthy of mention in Wikipedia IF it has been reported by a reliable source. See, for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Post_Office_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_banking_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Seven
I fail to see any distinctiion between those long-standing Wiki articles and the inclusion of two of the four sections in question. The other two were quite positive-- about membership reaffirmations, and awards. (Those were also drawn from reliable sources, and their inclusion show a balanced, fair and even-handed editorial approach.)
Repeated deletion of these sections is not called for. If this continues, it is grounds for mention in a Noticceboard. SoTotallyAwesome ( talk) 16:48, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
I believe that the new sections have relevance. I also agree that politicians are in the public/media spotlight, so all of their actions, affiliations, screw-ups and kudos are worth mentioning. That is the nature of the beast. They put themselves in the spotlight as our public servants, so they'd better behave themselves. The new sections are worthwhile. (But the Awards section seems lame--it should either get zapped, or be expanded to make it better.) DiligenceDude ( talk) 22:34, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
This section is clear synthesis, and as such a gross violation of WP:NPOV policy. There can be no justification whatsoever for compiling a list of individuals of a particular organisation convicted for unrelated crimes. This is nothing but crude propaganda, and a disgrace to Wikipedia. I have deleted the section, and should it be restored, I will have no hesitation in asking for sanctions to be taken against those responsible. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 02:29, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Secondary sources picking up on this topic
also on a separate note, this story may be interesting for inclusion as well http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/11/08/bloomberg-a-big-loser-with-antigun-money-in-virginia-n1743378 Gaijin42 ( talk) 18:48, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
You want to remove the names of mayors charged, tried and convicted of crimes by legitimate courts on the one hand.
While listing bullshit fluff awards as somehow relevant on the other? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.94.226 ( talk) 16:48, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
I just completed what I consider some practical, well meaning, and hopefully logical edits to the sections, their titles, and content within each. Nothing was deleted, in fact I added a paragraph describing the "No More Names" program and bus tour that prefaces the news report about the announcing of the names of murderers. -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... ( talk) 05:37, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
As of January 13, 2014, the link for citation 44 goes to a blank page with no members listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.33.72.77 ( talk) 19:44, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
FYI: I am going to take some time to update the source citations using WP:CS1 and date format YYYY-MM-DD. I will also try to find some archived links for the many dead links. Lightbreather ( talk) 21:50, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Current entry: "Largely in response to a recent NRA organized letter writing campaign, dozens of mayors have resigned from or distanced themselves from the MAIG while still in office.[45][46][47]"
Problem: "Largely in response to a recent NRA organized letter writing campaign" is not mentioned or not substantiated in the cited sources (footnotes [45],[46],[47]).
Proposed entry: "Dozens of mayors have resigned from or distanced themselves from the MAIG while still in office.[45][46][47]"
Anyone's thoughts on this, please? Danniemeadows ( talk • contribs) 16:45, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Mayors Against Illegal Guns has removed the section of their website listing their members and as such, it is it hard to get a count. The section of the page detailing the number of members (and it's now dead source) need updating. Should it simply be removed or should it reflect that at last count there were 1000 member but then the membership list became private. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.65.246.148 ( talk) 07:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Here's the latest - " http://everytown.org/mayors/" - since they joined with Moms Demand Action to start the Everytown movement. It says, "a bipartisan group of more than 1,000 current and former mayors..." Lightbreather ( talk) 22:38, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
Now that this organization has been changed to "Everytown for Gun Safety" shouldn't there be mention of this (and potentially a re-focus to that subject) and should we consider merging the Moms Demand Action article with this one? -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) 18:34, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved. Rider ranger47 Talk 19:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
The request to rename this article to Everytown for Gun Safety has been carried out. |
Mayors Against Illegal Guns → Everytown for Gun Safety – Mayors Against Illegal Guns has rebranded as a campaign of Everytown. At the very least, Everytown should get its own article, and MAIG's post-Everytown activities should be included on its page. --Relisted. — Amakuru ( talk) 10:36, 16 January 2015 (UTC) Faceless Enemy ( talk) 03:09, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Why is the article is named "Everytown for Gun Safety " when there ain't a single mention of that group in the article? Somebody needs to fix something. Felsic ( talk) 15:40, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
This section accounts for more than 10% of the article. 345 words out of 3110 total. Much of that is straight from the NRA website, and there's no rebuttal included. By comparison, the NRA article is 5643 words long with just 396 devoted to criticism from all sources, including rebuttals from the NRA. Ever hear of WP:UNDUE? Would the editors who favor the material in this article support doubling the length of the criticism section in the NRA article, and removing the rebuttals? I doubt it. 162.119.231.132 ( talk) 17:55, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
There are only two sources in this article from 2014 - everything else is from before 2014. I am going to place some sources here for consideration. Lightbreather ( talk) 21:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
-- Lightbreather ( talk) 22:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
I have contacted the org to see if they will release to us an image file of their logo. Lightbreather ( talk) 20:33, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Any point in keeping the old MAIG logo up on the wiki? It's nominated for deletion right now. Faceless Enemy ( talk) 03:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
As referenced above, much of the material in this article appears to be outdated. Especially with the name change of this page and the merging of two organizations. Going to start to try and update the content to better align with the current organization and its timeline. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amberwaves50 ( talk • contribs) 17:15, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Something is wrong with the article's timeline. The opening (2nd sentence) states that Everytown was founded in 2006 by combining Mayors Against and Moms Demand. But under History it states that those 2 organizations merged to form Everytown in April 2014. Even further down (under Organization) it says that Moms Demand was founded in 2012...it can't very well have merged with Mayors Against 6 years before it came into existence. I did a brief read-through of momsdemandaction.org and everytown.org and have confirmed that Moms Demand was founded in 2012, a day after Sandy Hook. I could not find a date for when they merged. So for now I'm altering the 2nd sentence of the opening to match the April 2014 date cited under History. If someone knows better, please modify. Niccast ( talk) 18:26, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Based on a discussion that Lightbreather started here, we need to figure out whether to lead the description with the group's mission statement (properly quoted and sourced), or a neutral summary of its objectives (in the encyclopedia's voice). There are advantages and disadvantages of both, and I don't really have a strong preference one way or the other (though right now I'm leaning towards a "summary" approach). I'd like to go find other well-established articles on contentious organizations and see how they have handled it. We can use them as guidance for how to move forward. If there is an overwhelming tendency towards any one of the three below approaches, then let's go with it. If it's a mix, let's figure out why there's a mix and pick the one that best applies here.
Please add your additional example articles or advantages/disadvantages below:
For now, I have modified the lead sentence to more closely reflect the NRA lead. I'm pinging Amberwaves50 on this as well, since they changed the lead to begin with. Faceless Enemy ( talk) 16:18, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Scalhotrod & Lightbreather, do we have consensus to go to a summary-only version for both pages? The NRA page is a bit more complex, since they do other stuff besides lobby, but "primarily known for" or language to that effect could clarify that they do other stuff without getting too bogged down in the details in the lead. Faceless Enemy ( talk) 20:09, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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According to the page on gun control, "Gun control (or regulation of firearms) refers to laws or policies that regulate the manufacture, sale, transfer, possession, modification, or use of firearms in order to control crime and reduce the harmful effects of violence." [emphases added] I'm not sure what adding "intended to prevent gun violence" does for this article - is it puffery, in order to say "Everytown is acting with pure intentions, and you are bad for opposing them"? Is it a dig at other gun control advocacy groups ("Only Everytown is acting with pure intentions; the others are actually secret robot lizard Nazis trying to disarm us so we won't be able to fight back")? At the very least, it feels redundant. Shelbystripes, would you please explain what you mean? I could be missing something here. :) Faceless Enemy ( talk) 13:19, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
Some further thoughts...
For now, I'm removing it. Faceless Enemy ( talk) 16:41, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:28, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
I added March for Our Lives in a "See also" section. Feel free to revert, integrate "March for Our Lives" into the article's prose, or help expand the newly-created article appropriately. Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:36, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
On my article, which is Everytown for Gun Safety, I am focusing on the subsection titled Moms Demand Action For Gun Sense in America. The information resented on the page is all retaining the topic. It has all the prominent information dealing with the topic and has no information out of the blue. Although the article is based on the side of gun reform in the United States, the overall feeling of the page and subsection is very neutral. Under the subsection that I am going to edit, it is currently underdeveloped. It provides a general understanding of the group but does not fully explain the history of the group and all its efforts to implement gun reform. The subsection provides a number of citations all throughout. They most seem to work and provide a strong inclination that the sources are indeed legitimate. The sources come from mostly gun reform talks with the Everytown for Gun Safety group, and for the demand for better gun reform across the country for the children. Each fact is accompanied by a source and allows for the reader to go and research the original source. There sources include many articles dealing with the mothers trying to influence gun reform and the work that they have done up to today. The sources are neutral and allow for both sides of this issue to be discussed. But, it seems that most are leaning towards the side of gun reform which is to be expected due to the nature of the group formed. There has been a recent addition dealing with the subsection about the recent shootings in Parkland, Florida. This recent addition deals with the group launching a campaign dealing with the NRA’s online channel, something that citizens have been asking about. Question: With the recent shootings that happened in Parkland, are we now going to see a change within the 2nd amendment and gun laws within the United States? Schovnick ( talk) 01:24, 8 March 2018 (UTC) schovnick
Under the "Moms Demand Action" subsection in the "Organizations" section, the group are "... for violation of the second amendment and gun ownership prevention..."
This reads partisan, if not incendiary.
There's also no source or quote for it. It just says they advocate for that, as fact. 130.44.166.158 ( talk) 12:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
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Text and/or other creative content from Moms Demand Action was copied or moved into Everytown for Gun Safety on 2017-07-04. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
17:32, 20 August 2007 66.108.111.61 (Talk) (21,500 bytes) (→Criticism and Controversy - Removed partisan language) (undo) Why would it be "partisan language" to state that "Their actual goals are unclear" based on the fact that the CDC has been unable to find a single law out of ~26,000 that supports their position? This makes their actual goals very unclear to me, as they are either 1. dumber than dirt, or 2. have some other goal (most probably gathering power for themselves, but that's speculation on my part, so I left it out). If I don't see a response I'll revert your change in a few days.
The James Pasco quote makes no sense. Was he misquoted or did he actually say that? If the latter, it should be deleted, as an incoherent quote adds nothing to an encyclopedic entry. Patricia Meadows ( talk) 01:39, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
I dont understand the arguement here. How are these criminals obtaining guns? If im not mistaken they go to a gun store fill out paper work and if they qualify/pass tests they can purchase a gun? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.23.236.243 ( talk) 23:50, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Since the question has been asked and stood since 29 Dec 2008:
U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Justice Statistics
Firearms Use by Offenders
(Sample: nationwide sample of prison inmates who possessed a firearm during the offense for which they were imprisoned)
2004 Source of firearms possessed by state prison inmates at time of offense
-
11.3% Retail Purchase or trade
_7.3 - Retail store
_2.6 - Pawnshop
_0.6 - Flea market
_0.8 - Gun show
-
37.4% Family or friend
12.2 - Purchased or traded
14.1 - Rented or borrowed
11.1 - Other
-
40.0% Street/illegal source
_7.5 - Theft or burglary
25.2 - Drug dealer/off street
_7.4 - Fence/black market
-
11.2% Other source
-
I would point out that family or friends supplying guns to criminals are often criminals too. They, and the thieves, burglars, fences, black marketeers, drug dealers, street dealers, etc., don't do background checks on criminals before supplying them with guns. Somehow, the Universal Background Check law is supposed to make them do it. By requiring them to voluntarily go to a federall firearms license holder (gun dealer) and pay $55 to have an NICS background check run and the transfer recorded on a Federal Form 4473. The 11+% Retail purchase or trade is usually done by having a friend, relative, lover, or other associate of the criminal with a clean record make the purchase for them (straw purchaser for actual buyer). --
Naaman Brown (
talk) 22:12, 10 July 2017 (UTC)
This section is getting so lengthy, that perhaps it would be appropriate to break it up into a bulleted list. Your thoughts? Trasel ( talk) 16:52, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
This is ridiculous. I'm deleting the section as soon as I can. This entire page is garbage and needs a total re-write from the ground-up. Yoursfaithfully ( talk) 03:15, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
This section has no relevance whatsoever. In an organization consisting of more than 450 members at this point, the fact that a handful of them have been indicted on some type of charge is insignificant. It's unclear what inference is being made here... Is the author suggesting that every policy ever supported by these mayors is somehow now in question, or that the Founders of Mayors Against Illegal Guns have expressed public support for criminal behavior, or that this behavior in some way implicates the mission of an organization of which they are one small part? Like the rest of the content on this page, this section doesn't even make a pretense in hiding its bias. Wikipedia's Neutrality rules have clearly been violated here. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 20:50, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
There is not even a pretense of objectivity here. The article reads like an attack piece and veers off on a number of tangents that have nothing to do with the organization or its mission. I agree with Yoursfaithfully. This article needs to be rewritten from scratch, in observation of Wikipedia's rules on Neutrality. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 14:31, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Is the Indicted, convicted, and scandalized members section of this article, which lists former and current [mayor] members with felony convictions and misdemeanors (unrelated to firearms), and public scandals (related to firearms) belong to this article about this organization? His male lover ( talk) 02:08, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Oh, and FWIW, many of the mentions of the various felonies and firearms-related scandals (all referenced) were imported from individual bio (BLP) pages on the individual Mayors, where they have stood the test of time, consensus and group edits. See, for example, the page on Mayor Jennings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Jennings (There, scroll down to the word "machineguns".)
If the consensus view is that the article requires balance, then by all means, lets ADD some details on the good works and crime fighting achievements of other Mayor-Members, rather than just hacking and slashing a section that has nearly 50 referenced news articles and 30+ wikilinks. Trasel ( talk)
The six footnotes sourcing the Mayors_Against_Illegal_Guns_Coalition#Announced_resignations section all have problems. The first three point to dead URL links. The fourth points to a press release by the National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry lobby group, which is really not a reliable source per Wikipedia standards. The fifth and sixth, rely on BuckeyeFirearms.org appears to be a blog, and not up to WP:RS standards. Can someone please provide better quality sourcing for each of the mayors which are claimed to have resigned from MAIG? Thanks. SaltyBoatr ( talk) 00:54, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
No comments? I guess that is because someone completely deleted the section. The axe tends to discourage debate. Here is what I propose: That I re-write the section, using ONLY newspaper references, and PDF links to the original resignation letters. After all, Salty's reasoning was based on claims the section had poor references. (I had taken the time to add about 10 references, but even though most of those were from newspapers, the entire section was blanked.) Your thoughts? Trasel ( talk) 16:17, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
There is a double standard in operation in the editing of this article. See Reference # 10, for example: "Full text of current Tiahrt Amendment From ProtectPolice.org, a project of Mayors Against Illegal Guns." That is a PDF is at the web site of the MAIG, albeit the subject of this article, is a partisan organization. By your stated standards, this PDF would not be allowed as a reference. Trasel ( talk) 03:02, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Some former mayors are still listed on the MAIG web site, but TTBOMK, that is an error. Given the many recent embarrassments of felony indicted and convicted individuals that have been booted out of office, one must wonder why the MAIG would see it in their best interest to continue to list former mayors. Part of the problem may be, that the MAIG would have to account for the reason that they have departed--other than just leaving their mayoral offices. As previously discussed, some mayors have quit the MAIG, or claimed that they never joined.
But then there are these individuals:
In summary, How do we reconcile accounting for the whereabouts and membership status of former mayors, while still remaining neutral? Should we put "(In Federal Custody)" after their names in the list? Or would "A Guest of the Taxpayers" be more NPOV?
And how can the wiki page have TWO mayors of Philadelphia listed--both the current mayor and his predecessor, the former mayor? Just curious... Trasel ( talk) 15:14, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
The content on this page has been improved, but there is still a great deal of irrelevant content here. There are long sections here discussing the Tiahrt Amendments and Lost and Stolen Guns. If it is necessary to explore these issues in depth, that should be done on separate pages created for that purpose. The topic of this article is "Mayors Against Illegal Guns." The discussion here should focus on the organization itself. If there is general controversy about MAIG's mission, that should be handled in a single section that states who has criticized the group and on what grounds. It is odd, for example, that the article currently lists mayors who have left the group (a small number) before linking to the group's current, overall membership (a large number). Thanks to those who have worked to improve the content here. The final goal should be a neutral presentation that lays out the facts and avoids tertiary issues. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 16:19, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
Trasel, with all due respect you recently wrote in the Discussion area of the Gun Show page:
"By creating a hobgoblin [the Gun Show Loophole issue], the the Brady Campaign, VPC, et al, have attempted to implement the Hegelian dialectic, to meet their political end, This is a classic political ploy: They create a false "crisis", and their "solution" is the implementation of their originally desired political goal. The loser, at the end of the day, is liberty. By incrementally destroying constitutional liberty, statists hope to accomplish over the course of a century something that they could never do overnight ... By calling free and legal commerce a "loophole"--which creates subconscious links to people that cheat on their taxes--they sought to demonize one of the cornerstones of American life--the ability to buy or sell household goods , at will, with or without profit, in INTRAstate commerce, without government regulation, and without paying homage to any entrenched guild, or fill out any "paperwork", or get "permission" from a bureau or agency or government. This same commerce is the last bastion of free, undocumented firearms ownership, which is anathema to gun controllers. They want to see the advent universal registration of firearms, and the very thought of private citizens buying and selling firearms freely amongst themselves does not fit with their world view, and their agenda for civilian disarmament. (After all, there can not be effective eventual confiscation of firearms, if some of them are not registered.)"
I think we all have personal points of view, the more important issue is do we observe Wikipedia's rules and attempt to craft articles here that are balanced, neutral and based on reliable sources? I welcome the opportunity to work with you on this article to create such content. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 20:28, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
I checked the sources provided for some of the legislative goals here, and they do not provide any evidence that MAIG has advocated for the following reforms: 1) Mandatory reporting of lost and stolen guns, 2) Purchase permits for all handgun sales, 3) Local control of firearms regulations, and 4) State inspection of gun dealers. In the case of the latter three, MAIG's report notes that states that have these laws export fewer crime guns to outside states, but they do not call for these reforms to be implemented. The reforms that are explicitly called for at the federal level on the MAIG webpage are: 1) Repealing Tiahrt Amendment, 2) Closing Gun Show Loophole, 3) Ending gun dealer fire sales, 4) Banning firearm sales to those on the Terrorist Watch List, 5) Employee background checks at licensed gun dealers, 6) Opposition to Thune Amendment. The article continues to move in the right direction, but there is still a lot of debate about specific issues that does not belong in this article. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 19:36, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
As recommended, I've just done some reorganizing. First, I grouped the legislative lobbying items together and added an introductory sentence for that section (with a new reference to a MAIG PDF). Second, I moved down the criticism section to the end of the article to de-emphasize it. Lastly, I re-wrote a number of sentences that were convoluted and laden with passive voice and lacked clarity. I trust that I did all of the preceding with sufficient neutrality. Trasel ( talk) 06:36, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, but you are wrong here. The USA Today article makes no mention of MAIG, and your usage of it here is pure synthesis to make a POV hypothesis which is your original research. Also, the Ammoland.com cite in the opening paragraph is a huge stretch, as they barely are a reliable source per WP standards (I am presently favoring removal of all the Ammoland.com cited material now for this reason) And worse, the Ammoland.com article does not coherently "dispute" the membership numbers anyway, but rather uses innuendo and no more. Those two sentences in the intro don't really fit the WP:LS guidelines. SaltyBoatr ( talk) 04:30, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
I have improved the list of references to this section as follows. There were several repeated refs which were included in duplicate, now removed. I also removed two passages which were referenced to primary documents, which is prohibited by Wikipedia policy WP:NOR. Reading an original letter and writing about it in Wikipedia is a form of original research. I removed one ref which pointed to an "ammoland" blog, which after further thought does not meet the WP:V standard which require us to use sources which are considered to be reliable as measured by the publishers reputation for fact checking and accuracy. Ammoland has an obscure publication process and doesn't meet this reliability standard. I removed the reference to the Time-Union article because mayor Ernie Wiggams claims that he did not resign, but that he never joined, therefore this is not a resignation. I also removed the ref for the "TheTimesNews.com" article because it does not actually say that mayor Ronnie Wall resigned. And after carefully checking these references I cannot agree that the title of this section should be simply 'criticisms', and there is a commonality in all of these refs which is that they all are linked to the NRA-ILA and NSSF campaigns to pressure mayors. Considering that both of these groups self identify as "gun lobby" groups, I object to the change [1] of the section title. We should call a spade a spade here, based on this reliable sourcing, this is gun lobby criticism and the title should reflect such. SaltyBoatr ( talk) 01:22, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
I deleted the recently added assertion that 73 members of MAIG have quit the Coalition because it was improperly cited and clearly in error. The local Knoxsville television network that was cited stated that an NRA spokesman said that "73 out of Florida's 450 mayors have quit the group." That is clearly an error because nowhere near 450 Florida mayors ever joined MAIG in the first place. Currently, 39 Florida mayors are members of MAIG: http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/members/members.shtml Forward Thinkers ( talk) 14:06, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Hamitr recently reverted [2] with the comment "(The source says nothing about: "dozens of mayors have joined the organization while the resignations have been a trickle") See the NYSun article at [3] Quoting from the last paragraph in the article:"Though dozens of mayors have joined Mayors Against Illegal Guns in the last several months, there has also been a trickle of mayors leaving the coalition." Clearly, Hamitr's reasoning appears unfounded, as the sourcing does indeed support the passage. SaltyBoatr ( talk) 04:22, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Can we get a source for the claim that "more than 70 mayors have left MAIG"? The NRA website continues to claim "more than 40," but does not specify who they are. We need a definitive source. Thanks. Forward Thinkers ( talk) 17:16, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Clearly in reliable sourcing, a significant subtopic of this article topic is the 2009 letter writing campaign pressuring mayors. And per Wikipedia guidelines, the section titles should describe the topic of the section, therefore I have restored the title "NRA pressure campaign". SaltyBoatr ( talk) 15:13, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
See above. Especially that entire legislative initiatives section. Jtrainor ( talk) 09:31, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
Is the idea behind the campaign to reduce illegal gun violence by criminals? Or to make it harder for law-abiding civilians to defend themselves from criminals?
Generally, debates on "gun control" issue assume that "guns" are the problem; and that increasing restrictions on gun purchase or gun possession will reduce illegal gun violence. The typical argument goes something like this:
Proponents of this sort of argument seem to assume that illegal gun violence rises and falls in proportion to the number of guns we possess. Opponents generally state (explicitly) that they think illegal gun violence is not in proportion to gun ownership in general, but depends on how many guns are in the hands of criminals and law abiding citizens.
Is there a way to describe this neutrally and fairly in the article? For example, can we say that MAIG's purpose is to reduce illegal gun violence? And if so, can we describe how they feel their campaign will serve that purpose?
We might compare this to MADD, which has campaigned to penalize drunk driving. Their purpose is explicitly stated: they want to reduce accidental deaths resulting from drunk drivers losing control of their cars. I'd like to know what MAIG's purpose is, too. -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 20:16, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
I added a new section to the article, about a recent incident where Sam Jones, the mayor of Mobile and a member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, discovered a burglar in his garage and held the intruder at gunpoint until the police arrived. According to reliable news sources it is not known whether or not Mayor Jones was carrying the gun concealed outside of his property, or if he has a concealed carry license, but he has not been charged with any crime. I provided two reliable references for this, CBS News and the Press-Register. This change, along with some other material, was removed with this edit. I believe the material that I added should be restored. The use of firearms by the members of this organization, including their apparently legal use in self-defense, is relevant to the subject of this article. Other editors are invited to share their views. — Mudwater ( Talk) 01:44, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone care to chime in here? /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_members_of_the_Mayors_Against_Illegal_Guns_Coalition SoTotallyAwesome ( talk) 03:15, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
I am dismayed to see that four reliably sourced sections were deleted. Elected officials are held to high standards, and when they fail to meet those standards, it is newsworthy. It is also worthy of mention in Wikipedia IF it has been reported by a reliable source. See, for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Post_Office_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_banking_scandal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_of_Seven
I fail to see any distinctiion between those long-standing Wiki articles and the inclusion of two of the four sections in question. The other two were quite positive-- about membership reaffirmations, and awards. (Those were also drawn from reliable sources, and their inclusion show a balanced, fair and even-handed editorial approach.)
Repeated deletion of these sections is not called for. If this continues, it is grounds for mention in a Noticceboard. SoTotallyAwesome ( talk) 16:48, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
I believe that the new sections have relevance. I also agree that politicians are in the public/media spotlight, so all of their actions, affiliations, screw-ups and kudos are worth mentioning. That is the nature of the beast. They put themselves in the spotlight as our public servants, so they'd better behave themselves. The new sections are worthwhile. (But the Awards section seems lame--it should either get zapped, or be expanded to make it better.) DiligenceDude ( talk) 22:34, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
This section is clear synthesis, and as such a gross violation of WP:NPOV policy. There can be no justification whatsoever for compiling a list of individuals of a particular organisation convicted for unrelated crimes. This is nothing but crude propaganda, and a disgrace to Wikipedia. I have deleted the section, and should it be restored, I will have no hesitation in asking for sanctions to be taken against those responsible. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 02:29, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Secondary sources picking up on this topic
also on a separate note, this story may be interesting for inclusion as well http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/11/08/bloomberg-a-big-loser-with-antigun-money-in-virginia-n1743378 Gaijin42 ( talk) 18:48, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
You want to remove the names of mayors charged, tried and convicted of crimes by legitimate courts on the one hand.
While listing bullshit fluff awards as somehow relevant on the other? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.94.226 ( talk) 16:48, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
I just completed what I consider some practical, well meaning, and hopefully logical edits to the sections, their titles, and content within each. Nothing was deleted, in fact I added a paragraph describing the "No More Names" program and bus tour that prefaces the news report about the announcing of the names of murderers. -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... ( talk) 05:37, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
As of January 13, 2014, the link for citation 44 goes to a blank page with no members listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.33.72.77 ( talk) 19:44, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
FYI: I am going to take some time to update the source citations using WP:CS1 and date format YYYY-MM-DD. I will also try to find some archived links for the many dead links. Lightbreather ( talk) 21:50, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Current entry: "Largely in response to a recent NRA organized letter writing campaign, dozens of mayors have resigned from or distanced themselves from the MAIG while still in office.[45][46][47]"
Problem: "Largely in response to a recent NRA organized letter writing campaign" is not mentioned or not substantiated in the cited sources (footnotes [45],[46],[47]).
Proposed entry: "Dozens of mayors have resigned from or distanced themselves from the MAIG while still in office.[45][46][47]"
Anyone's thoughts on this, please? Danniemeadows ( talk • contribs) 16:45, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
Mayors Against Illegal Guns has removed the section of their website listing their members and as such, it is it hard to get a count. The section of the page detailing the number of members (and it's now dead source) need updating. Should it simply be removed or should it reflect that at last count there were 1000 member but then the membership list became private. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.65.246.148 ( talk) 07:56, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Here's the latest - " http://everytown.org/mayors/" - since they joined with Moms Demand Action to start the Everytown movement. It says, "a bipartisan group of more than 1,000 current and former mayors..." Lightbreather ( talk) 22:38, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
Now that this organization has been changed to "Everytown for Gun Safety" shouldn't there be mention of this (and potentially a re-focus to that subject) and should we consider merging the Moms Demand Action article with this one? -- Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) 18:34, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Page moved. Rider ranger47 Talk 19:50, 24 January 2015 (UTC)
The request to rename this article to Everytown for Gun Safety has been carried out. |
Mayors Against Illegal Guns → Everytown for Gun Safety – Mayors Against Illegal Guns has rebranded as a campaign of Everytown. At the very least, Everytown should get its own article, and MAIG's post-Everytown activities should be included on its page. --Relisted. — Amakuru ( talk) 10:36, 16 January 2015 (UTC) Faceless Enemy ( talk) 03:09, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
Why is the article is named "Everytown for Gun Safety " when there ain't a single mention of that group in the article? Somebody needs to fix something. Felsic ( talk) 15:40, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
This section accounts for more than 10% of the article. 345 words out of 3110 total. Much of that is straight from the NRA website, and there's no rebuttal included. By comparison, the NRA article is 5643 words long with just 396 devoted to criticism from all sources, including rebuttals from the NRA. Ever hear of WP:UNDUE? Would the editors who favor the material in this article support doubling the length of the criticism section in the NRA article, and removing the rebuttals? I doubt it. 162.119.231.132 ( talk) 17:55, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
There are only two sources in this article from 2014 - everything else is from before 2014. I am going to place some sources here for consideration. Lightbreather ( talk) 21:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
-- Lightbreather ( talk) 22:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
I have contacted the org to see if they will release to us an image file of their logo. Lightbreather ( talk) 20:33, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Any point in keeping the old MAIG logo up on the wiki? It's nominated for deletion right now. Faceless Enemy ( talk) 03:11, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
As referenced above, much of the material in this article appears to be outdated. Especially with the name change of this page and the merging of two organizations. Going to start to try and update the content to better align with the current organization and its timeline. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amberwaves50 ( talk • contribs) 17:15, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
Something is wrong with the article's timeline. The opening (2nd sentence) states that Everytown was founded in 2006 by combining Mayors Against and Moms Demand. But under History it states that those 2 organizations merged to form Everytown in April 2014. Even further down (under Organization) it says that Moms Demand was founded in 2012...it can't very well have merged with Mayors Against 6 years before it came into existence. I did a brief read-through of momsdemandaction.org and everytown.org and have confirmed that Moms Demand was founded in 2012, a day after Sandy Hook. I could not find a date for when they merged. So for now I'm altering the 2nd sentence of the opening to match the April 2014 date cited under History. If someone knows better, please modify. Niccast ( talk) 18:26, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
Based on a discussion that Lightbreather started here, we need to figure out whether to lead the description with the group's mission statement (properly quoted and sourced), or a neutral summary of its objectives (in the encyclopedia's voice). There are advantages and disadvantages of both, and I don't really have a strong preference one way or the other (though right now I'm leaning towards a "summary" approach). I'd like to go find other well-established articles on contentious organizations and see how they have handled it. We can use them as guidance for how to move forward. If there is an overwhelming tendency towards any one of the three below approaches, then let's go with it. If it's a mix, let's figure out why there's a mix and pick the one that best applies here.
Please add your additional example articles or advantages/disadvantages below:
For now, I have modified the lead sentence to more closely reflect the NRA lead. I'm pinging Amberwaves50 on this as well, since they changed the lead to begin with. Faceless Enemy ( talk) 16:18, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Scalhotrod & Lightbreather, do we have consensus to go to a summary-only version for both pages? The NRA page is a bit more complex, since they do other stuff besides lobby, but "primarily known for" or language to that effect could clarify that they do other stuff without getting too bogged down in the details in the lead. Faceless Enemy ( talk) 20:09, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 16:10, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
According to the page on gun control, "Gun control (or regulation of firearms) refers to laws or policies that regulate the manufacture, sale, transfer, possession, modification, or use of firearms in order to control crime and reduce the harmful effects of violence." [emphases added] I'm not sure what adding "intended to prevent gun violence" does for this article - is it puffery, in order to say "Everytown is acting with pure intentions, and you are bad for opposing them"? Is it a dig at other gun control advocacy groups ("Only Everytown is acting with pure intentions; the others are actually secret robot lizard Nazis trying to disarm us so we won't be able to fight back")? At the very least, it feels redundant. Shelbystripes, would you please explain what you mean? I could be missing something here. :) Faceless Enemy ( talk) 13:19, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
Some further thoughts...
For now, I'm removing it. Faceless Enemy ( talk) 16:41, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 12:55, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:39, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 10 external links on Everytown for Gun Safety. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:28, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
I added March for Our Lives in a "See also" section. Feel free to revert, integrate "March for Our Lives" into the article's prose, or help expand the newly-created article appropriately. Thanks! --- Another Believer ( Talk) 17:36, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
On my article, which is Everytown for Gun Safety, I am focusing on the subsection titled Moms Demand Action For Gun Sense in America. The information resented on the page is all retaining the topic. It has all the prominent information dealing with the topic and has no information out of the blue. Although the article is based on the side of gun reform in the United States, the overall feeling of the page and subsection is very neutral. Under the subsection that I am going to edit, it is currently underdeveloped. It provides a general understanding of the group but does not fully explain the history of the group and all its efforts to implement gun reform. The subsection provides a number of citations all throughout. They most seem to work and provide a strong inclination that the sources are indeed legitimate. The sources come from mostly gun reform talks with the Everytown for Gun Safety group, and for the demand for better gun reform across the country for the children. Each fact is accompanied by a source and allows for the reader to go and research the original source. There sources include many articles dealing with the mothers trying to influence gun reform and the work that they have done up to today. The sources are neutral and allow for both sides of this issue to be discussed. But, it seems that most are leaning towards the side of gun reform which is to be expected due to the nature of the group formed. There has been a recent addition dealing with the subsection about the recent shootings in Parkland, Florida. This recent addition deals with the group launching a campaign dealing with the NRA’s online channel, something that citizens have been asking about. Question: With the recent shootings that happened in Parkland, are we now going to see a change within the 2nd amendment and gun laws within the United States? Schovnick ( talk) 01:24, 8 March 2018 (UTC) schovnick
Under the "Moms Demand Action" subsection in the "Organizations" section, the group are "... for violation of the second amendment and gun ownership prevention..."
This reads partisan, if not incendiary.
There's also no source or quote for it. It just says they advocate for that, as fact. 130.44.166.158 ( talk) 12:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)