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Weird. We have an apparently non-notable song (kinda skating by on having been recorded by more than one artist). At the moment, the album gets an article by virtual of being by a notable artist. If the album charts, I figure we'll have a strong enough argument to say the album is at least as notable as the song and go with a disamb page.
I don't see an obvious primary topic here, other than arguing that it is not the older song. Unless someone has an argument in favor of the album vs. the current song, I think we're definitely in disamb territory. Should the album go on to significantly outpace the song, we might have a different answer, but that seems unlikely. - SummerPhDv2.019:29, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Wait, I'm confused. When you say the title track has charted, do you mean "Everyday is Christmas"? I don't see that it's been released as a single.
If the 2017 song "Everyday..." has not be released as a single, and the 2017 album charts, we might have a reasonable case for calling it the primary topic. Maybe we should give it couple of weeks before bothering? - SummerPhDv2.019:34, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
@
SummerPhDv2.0: Sorry, I completely misspoke above. The title track has not charted, I just had a complete brain freeze. I struck out my comment above re: the title track charting. Right, so we're just debating the existing song article and this album article. Sia's album will definitely chart, but I don't mind waiting until its release before moving any pages. Sorry for the confusion! ---
Another Believer(
Talk)20:55, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
To be clear: I'm not pushing to hold off based on the album not officially charting yet (I'm also expecting it will chart on her name alone). I'm just thinking that if the title track is released, we might not have a primary topic and I don't want to bother with shuffling everything around if that is going to happen. - SummerPhDv2.021:58, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Meh. I don't really care all that much. I kinda doubt anyone is going to be defending the primacy of the other song and I have no clue if the promotional machine would really try to squeeze out a third(-ish) single. Be bold. It's not a big deal. Of course, if it goes south, I'm throwing you under the bus. - SummerPhDv2.023:05, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
@
SummerPhDv2.0: Pinging just in case you want to contribute to the move discussion below. Looks like folks may not be ready to move the article until the album is released.... so we might have to do this again in a week's time, lol. ---
Another Believer(
Talk)20:40, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
I thought it was uncontroversial 6 months ago. You know how that went. I still think it's obvious, but re-opening the topic would seem to be the next step. - SummerPhDv2.014:59, 21 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Requested move 10 November 2017
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Not moved per consensus. Without prejudice to a request in future when the circumstances might change. The final tally was 4 oppose, 1 support (excluding nominator), and one "meh". —usernamekiran
(talk)01:06, 17 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Object to speedy move Why was this discussed between only two people, instead of being proposed as a proper full-up requested move? This should have an open discussion --
70.51.45.76 (
talk)
05:16, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment This is an unreleased album, so should not take the primary location. Albums should not be moved until after it is released, when figures are available. Same as any other unreleased product. --
70.51.45.76 (
talk)
07:24, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
....Apart from anything else what guarantee have we got that Sia won't release the title track as a single? There have already been 3 other songs with this title, what's to stop Sia releasing it.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
09:09, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
OpposeWP:TOOSOON - the album isn't even out yet, no way to know if it's going to be primary. Also, even it it does become popular, its more likely that the song on the album would be the real primary. --
Netoholic@20:13, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Meh - The EW&F song is barely notable (no charts, but covered by multiple artists), so it won't take much to unseat that. The first single from the album is charting and the artist is currently popular so the album will almost certainly chart. The album not charting (or somehow not being released) is highly unlikely. Yeah, it's a bit of crystal balling (as is the question of what if the single of the same name is released and charts and eclipses the album). That said: A) Anyone searching for this now is almost certainly looking for the album 2) In the unlikely event this ends up not being the WP:PRIMARY, undoing it would be minor. The wikilawyer in me wants to hold off, but pragmatically, at this point the move makes sense. - SummerPhDv2.021:18, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
TL;DR version: I don't care. I think we've over-discussed this.
I'm not advocating for ambiguous titling. Quite the contrary. At the moment most of the searches for "Everyday Is Christmas" are for the Sia album. Barring some sort of cosmic shift, that will continue to be the case until someone else decides to release something else with the same bad title.
Is it possible that the title track will be released, chart and become significantly more notable than the album? Sure. Is it possible that the EW&F cover will suddenly light up the charts? Sure. It's possible that Taylor Swift will legally change her name to "Everyday Is Christmas", creating the biggest upset in the history of the Wikipedia Redirect Hotlist chart. If you'd like to wait a couple of weeks to see if the next album by Sia actually charts (spoiler: it's going to chart), that's fine. If you feel that an album that charts isn't primary relative to a song that didn't chart, I disagree, but not strongly enough to argue. - SummerPhDv2.016:45, 11 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose I concur with Netoholic; this is jumping the gun when the album hasn't even been released yet. Needs some time AFTER release to assess for common usage. No prejudice against re-discussing in a year, though.
Snuggums (
talk /
edits)
02:08, 11 November 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Moving it now would be
WP:Recentism as we haven't really had a chance to assess common usage following its release. Wait at the very least 6 months (preferably a year or longer) before going for another RM.
Snuggums (
talk /
edits)
14:34, 25 November 2017 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Albums, an attempt at building a useful resource on recordings from a variety of genres. If you would like to participate, visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion.AlbumsWikipedia:WikiProject AlbumsTemplate:WikiProject AlbumsAlbum articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Holidays, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
holidays on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HolidaysWikipedia:WikiProject HolidaysTemplate:WikiProject HolidaysHolidays articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Pop music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to
pop music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Pop musicWikipedia:WikiProject Pop musicTemplate:WikiProject Pop musicPop music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Sia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SiaWikipedia:WikiProject SiaTemplate:WikiProject SiaSia (musician) articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women in Music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Women in music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women in MusicWikipedia:WikiProject Women in MusicTemplate:WikiProject Women in MusicWomen in music articles
Weird. We have an apparently non-notable song (kinda skating by on having been recorded by more than one artist). At the moment, the album gets an article by virtual of being by a notable artist. If the album charts, I figure we'll have a strong enough argument to say the album is at least as notable as the song and go with a disamb page.
I don't see an obvious primary topic here, other than arguing that it is not the older song. Unless someone has an argument in favor of the album vs. the current song, I think we're definitely in disamb territory. Should the album go on to significantly outpace the song, we might have a different answer, but that seems unlikely. - SummerPhDv2.019:29, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Wait, I'm confused. When you say the title track has charted, do you mean "Everyday is Christmas"? I don't see that it's been released as a single.
If the 2017 song "Everyday..." has not be released as a single, and the 2017 album charts, we might have a reasonable case for calling it the primary topic. Maybe we should give it couple of weeks before bothering? - SummerPhDv2.019:34, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
@
SummerPhDv2.0: Sorry, I completely misspoke above. The title track has not charted, I just had a complete brain freeze. I struck out my comment above re: the title track charting. Right, so we're just debating the existing song article and this album article. Sia's album will definitely chart, but I don't mind waiting until its release before moving any pages. Sorry for the confusion! ---
Another Believer(
Talk)20:55, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
To be clear: I'm not pushing to hold off based on the album not officially charting yet (I'm also expecting it will chart on her name alone). I'm just thinking that if the title track is released, we might not have a primary topic and I don't want to bother with shuffling everything around if that is going to happen. - SummerPhDv2.021:58, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Meh. I don't really care all that much. I kinda doubt anyone is going to be defending the primacy of the other song and I have no clue if the promotional machine would really try to squeeze out a third(-ish) single. Be bold. It's not a big deal. Of course, if it goes south, I'm throwing you under the bus. - SummerPhDv2.023:05, 9 November 2017 (UTC)reply
@
SummerPhDv2.0: Pinging just in case you want to contribute to the move discussion below. Looks like folks may not be ready to move the article until the album is released.... so we might have to do this again in a week's time, lol. ---
Another Believer(
Talk)20:40, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
I thought it was uncontroversial 6 months ago. You know how that went. I still think it's obvious, but re-opening the topic would seem to be the next step. - SummerPhDv2.014:59, 21 May 2018 (UTC)reply
Requested move 10 November 2017
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Not moved per consensus. Without prejudice to a request in future when the circumstances might change. The final tally was 4 oppose, 1 support (excluding nominator), and one "meh". —usernamekiran
(talk)01:06, 17 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Object to speedy move Why was this discussed between only two people, instead of being proposed as a proper full-up requested move? This should have an open discussion --
70.51.45.76 (
talk)
05:16, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Comment This is an unreleased album, so should not take the primary location. Albums should not be moved until after it is released, when figures are available. Same as any other unreleased product. --
70.51.45.76 (
talk)
07:24, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
....Apart from anything else what guarantee have we got that Sia won't release the title track as a single? There have already been 3 other songs with this title, what's to stop Sia releasing it.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
09:09, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
OpposeWP:TOOSOON - the album isn't even out yet, no way to know if it's going to be primary. Also, even it it does become popular, its more likely that the song on the album would be the real primary. --
Netoholic@20:13, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Meh - The EW&F song is barely notable (no charts, but covered by multiple artists), so it won't take much to unseat that. The first single from the album is charting and the artist is currently popular so the album will almost certainly chart. The album not charting (or somehow not being released) is highly unlikely. Yeah, it's a bit of crystal balling (as is the question of what if the single of the same name is released and charts and eclipses the album). That said: A) Anyone searching for this now is almost certainly looking for the album 2) In the unlikely event this ends up not being the WP:PRIMARY, undoing it would be minor. The wikilawyer in me wants to hold off, but pragmatically, at this point the move makes sense. - SummerPhDv2.021:18, 10 November 2017 (UTC)reply
TL;DR version: I don't care. I think we've over-discussed this.
I'm not advocating for ambiguous titling. Quite the contrary. At the moment most of the searches for "Everyday Is Christmas" are for the Sia album. Barring some sort of cosmic shift, that will continue to be the case until someone else decides to release something else with the same bad title.
Is it possible that the title track will be released, chart and become significantly more notable than the album? Sure. Is it possible that the EW&F cover will suddenly light up the charts? Sure. It's possible that Taylor Swift will legally change her name to "Everyday Is Christmas", creating the biggest upset in the history of the Wikipedia Redirect Hotlist chart. If you'd like to wait a couple of weeks to see if the next album by Sia actually charts (spoiler: it's going to chart), that's fine. If you feel that an album that charts isn't primary relative to a song that didn't chart, I disagree, but not strongly enough to argue. - SummerPhDv2.016:45, 11 November 2017 (UTC)reply
Oppose I concur with Netoholic; this is jumping the gun when the album hasn't even been released yet. Needs some time AFTER release to assess for common usage. No prejudice against re-discussing in a year, though.
Snuggums (
talk /
edits)
02:08, 11 November 2017 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
Moving it now would be
WP:Recentism as we haven't really had a chance to assess common usage following its release. Wait at the very least 6 months (preferably a year or longer) before going for another RM.
Snuggums (
talk /
edits)
14:34, 25 November 2017 (UTC)reply