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Creating a space for new editors who keep attempting to delete certain sentences like Caicaybietdi and AdBacke to discuss the rationale. Please keep it civil and refrain from accusations like "vandalism" in the comments :)
Let's break this down to understand each individual assertion and if there are problems with the sources.
Caicaybietdi and AdBacke : Do you dispute that Mora founded Studio Eneas? If you are having a hard time reading the Finish in the article, Google Translate is a handy tool!
Caicaybietdi and AdBacke : Do you dispute that Mora shut down Studio Eneas in 2016 and rebranded? If so, please explain why and list your supporting sources, and let's persuade the other editors here before deleting anything further. You can see more discussion on these points, and the English translation of the second source, in the section below. Thanks! Lordwhatfools ( talk) 17:03, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
There are many currently unsourceable facts missing from this article, such as fraudulent behavior and scams committed by Ms. "Mora". Anyone with access to these facts is invited to cite them, if possible, or encouraged to contact the local authorities to share such information. Thank you. Sara48682 ( talk) 08:41, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
The attempts has been reported to the finish police as harrasment and defamation and have no factual base. Wikipedia has been informed. ChrisXr2040 ( talk) 21:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
There are at least three sources that confirm Evelyn Mora ran scam companies in Finland (all of which are in debt and have unpaid taxes, which is a matter of public record):
(1) https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mallitoimistot-puhuvat-suoraan-maksulliset-mallikansiot-silkkaa-rahastusta-selfie-riittaa-meille/5706914#gs.pkhwaa (2) https://mvlehti.net/2016/01/31/huijarifirmat-kusettavat-nuoria-vaarilla-lupauksilla-ja-mallikansioilla/ (3) https://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/t/13725904/studio-eneas
When these facts were included in the page, three accounts began editing the page to remove unflattering details about Mora: MarcoLorch, ChrisXr2040, and Caicaybietdi. It is my belief these accounts are all owned/operated by Mora, who authored her own Wikipedia page and is now violating the COI guidelines. Please review @ GeneralNotability:. Based on the edit history, I do not appear to be the only concerned citizen who is aware of Mora's reputation as operating scam corporations in Finland. I am disturbed by her ability to exploit Wikipedia to elevate her reputation online, and believe that the negative press must be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordwhatfools ( talk • contribs) 22:28, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Sara48682, ChrisXr2040, and Lordwhatfools: (and probably others) let's try to take a moment as this conversation seems to be quickly unraveling. Could we try to resolve this in a civil manner, please? It may help if any of you all who were involved in this dispute thus far could briefly summarize what the conflict has been about. I'd also like to remind everyone to assume good faith, and that any comments made should be on the content of the article, not the contributor. Perryprog ( talk) 23:02, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
I do see that the YTJ lists the "[...] CORPORATIONS Oy" company as having over €10k in unpaid taxes, but that doesn't say much by itself—Wikipedia typically only reports what reliable, secondary sources say on a subject. A news article describing the context of the unpaid taxes would be more helpful here, as any theorizing on what it means would be original research. Perryprog ( talk) 14:03, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
a better place to take these findings is the actual press, probably. This is clearly a bit of a contentious area, so we should only be reporting what reliable, secondary sources say. To an extent primary sources are fine, but that's more for things like "date of birth", where there's no possible room for misuse. Quoting from the no original research policy:
All analyses and interpretive or synthetic claims must be referenced to a secondary or tertiary source [...].
If you want to propose a change, go for it—as long as it reflects what secondary sources are reporting, it's probably ok (you will likely want a second or third source for that specific claim though). You'll want to follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Edit requests § Planning a request, keeping in mind that this is would not be an uncontroversial change. Perryprog ( talk) 00:09, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Per Perryprog's suggestion, a consensus has been reached from various editors regarding the proposed changes below.
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Proposed Edits:
(1)
(2)
Here are the background and sources for discussion and context:
(1)
The source cited as evidence that Mora owns the Helsinki Fashion Week Trademark is Mora's own press release ( http://helsinkifashionweeklive.com/hfw-ss20-press-release-ii/), and it does not reference purchasing the trademark.
Furthermore, the Finland Trademark Registry shows three entries for owners of the mark, none of which are Mora or her affiliated entities:
https://tavaramerkkitietopalvelu.prh.fi/en/trademark/T200700844/ https://tavaramerkkitietopalvelu.prh.fi/en/trademark/T201200240/ https://tavaramerkkitietopalvelu.prh.fi/en/trademark/T201201818/256376/
(And the mark does not appear to be registered or owned by Mora in any other countries, either.)
(2)
Before founding Helsinki Fashion Week, Mora first came to prominence as the founder of Studio Eneas ( https://www.hs.fi/ihmiset/art-2000002748161.html), the original company behind Helsinki Fashion Week ( https://www.nordicstylemag.com/blog/2015/10/nordic-news-week-41) when it first re-launched under Mora.
Studio Eneas shut down and rebranded in apparent response to negative articles and forums. It may be worth noting that Mora does not list it as part of her bio on any of her owned websites, which makes surfacing it here seem pertinent. Relevant quotes from the most reliable source on this front ( https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mallitoimistot-puhuvat-suoraan-maksulliset-mallikansiot-silkkaa-rahastusta-selfie-riittaa-meille/5706914) are included below (translated from Finnish).
"According to Ketola it’s shocking how irresponsible it is to give empty promises to teenagers who dream of a model career who don’t really have any chance at the pool. I constantly get these model pictures paid for by the girls themselves with big money"
"Leskinen wants to warn about another actor, Studio Eneas:
- Paid folders have been made through this office and even girls have been taken abroad to meet the offices. Some parents say they made a mistake to pay up to thousands of euros for the trips, Leskinen reveals.
According to Ketola, Eneas has also asked for almost 1,000 euros from the model folder.
- The girl who was trying to be a model came to visit and said that she had been offered a model folder for more than 1000 euros, but then she was told that because she is so gorgeous, she would have received the pictures for half price, about 600 euros. However, he did not really have any opportunities to work as a model, says Ketola."
"Here's how Studio Eneas answered:
Studio Eneas has ceased operations and Evelyn Mora aka Kimia Moradzadeh will continue in the new company Evelyn Mora Corporation, whose Facebook pages are called Studio Eneas and the websites Eneas Corporation."
-- Lordwhatfools ( talk) 01:39, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
References
{{
edit extended-protected}}
template. Suggested edits violate the
Biographies of Living Persons and
Core Content Policies.
Eggishorn
(talk)
(contrib)
23:37, 1 February 2021 (UTC)I don't see anyone objecting to these edits from the previous kerfuffle, and everyone active on the talk page has endorsed. Since they are properly sourced will move them in shortly, if no one objects. Lordwhatfools ( talk) 18:32, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Creating a space for new editors who keep attempting to delete certain sentences like Caicaybietdi and AdBacke to discuss the rationale. Please keep it civil and refrain from accusations like "vandalism" in the comments :)
Let's break this down to understand each individual assertion and if there are problems with the sources.
Caicaybietdi and AdBacke : Do you dispute that Mora founded Studio Eneas? If you are having a hard time reading the Finish in the article, Google Translate is a handy tool!
Caicaybietdi and AdBacke : Do you dispute that Mora shut down Studio Eneas in 2016 and rebranded? If so, please explain why and list your supporting sources, and let's persuade the other editors here before deleting anything further. You can see more discussion on these points, and the English translation of the second source, in the section below. Thanks! Lordwhatfools ( talk) 17:03, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
There are many currently unsourceable facts missing from this article, such as fraudulent behavior and scams committed by Ms. "Mora". Anyone with access to these facts is invited to cite them, if possible, or encouraged to contact the local authorities to share such information. Thank you. Sara48682 ( talk) 08:41, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
The attempts has been reported to the finish police as harrasment and defamation and have no factual base. Wikipedia has been informed. ChrisXr2040 ( talk) 21:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
There are at least three sources that confirm Evelyn Mora ran scam companies in Finland (all of which are in debt and have unpaid taxes, which is a matter of public record):
(1) https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mallitoimistot-puhuvat-suoraan-maksulliset-mallikansiot-silkkaa-rahastusta-selfie-riittaa-meille/5706914#gs.pkhwaa (2) https://mvlehti.net/2016/01/31/huijarifirmat-kusettavat-nuoria-vaarilla-lupauksilla-ja-mallikansioilla/ (3) https://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/t/13725904/studio-eneas
When these facts were included in the page, three accounts began editing the page to remove unflattering details about Mora: MarcoLorch, ChrisXr2040, and Caicaybietdi. It is my belief these accounts are all owned/operated by Mora, who authored her own Wikipedia page and is now violating the COI guidelines. Please review @ GeneralNotability:. Based on the edit history, I do not appear to be the only concerned citizen who is aware of Mora's reputation as operating scam corporations in Finland. I am disturbed by her ability to exploit Wikipedia to elevate her reputation online, and believe that the negative press must be included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordwhatfools ( talk • contribs) 22:28, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Sara48682, ChrisXr2040, and Lordwhatfools: (and probably others) let's try to take a moment as this conversation seems to be quickly unraveling. Could we try to resolve this in a civil manner, please? It may help if any of you all who were involved in this dispute thus far could briefly summarize what the conflict has been about. I'd also like to remind everyone to assume good faith, and that any comments made should be on the content of the article, not the contributor. Perryprog ( talk) 23:02, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
I do see that the YTJ lists the "[...] CORPORATIONS Oy" company as having over €10k in unpaid taxes, but that doesn't say much by itself—Wikipedia typically only reports what reliable, secondary sources say on a subject. A news article describing the context of the unpaid taxes would be more helpful here, as any theorizing on what it means would be original research. Perryprog ( talk) 14:03, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
a better place to take these findings is the actual press, probably. This is clearly a bit of a contentious area, so we should only be reporting what reliable, secondary sources say. To an extent primary sources are fine, but that's more for things like "date of birth", where there's no possible room for misuse. Quoting from the no original research policy:
All analyses and interpretive or synthetic claims must be referenced to a secondary or tertiary source [...].
If you want to propose a change, go for it—as long as it reflects what secondary sources are reporting, it's probably ok (you will likely want a second or third source for that specific claim though). You'll want to follow the instructions at Wikipedia:Edit requests § Planning a request, keeping in mind that this is would not be an uncontroversial change. Perryprog ( talk) 00:09, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
Per Perryprog's suggestion, a consensus has been reached from various editors regarding the proposed changes below.
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Proposed Edits:
(1)
(2)
Here are the background and sources for discussion and context:
(1)
The source cited as evidence that Mora owns the Helsinki Fashion Week Trademark is Mora's own press release ( http://helsinkifashionweeklive.com/hfw-ss20-press-release-ii/), and it does not reference purchasing the trademark.
Furthermore, the Finland Trademark Registry shows three entries for owners of the mark, none of which are Mora or her affiliated entities:
https://tavaramerkkitietopalvelu.prh.fi/en/trademark/T200700844/ https://tavaramerkkitietopalvelu.prh.fi/en/trademark/T201200240/ https://tavaramerkkitietopalvelu.prh.fi/en/trademark/T201201818/256376/
(And the mark does not appear to be registered or owned by Mora in any other countries, either.)
(2)
Before founding Helsinki Fashion Week, Mora first came to prominence as the founder of Studio Eneas ( https://www.hs.fi/ihmiset/art-2000002748161.html), the original company behind Helsinki Fashion Week ( https://www.nordicstylemag.com/blog/2015/10/nordic-news-week-41) when it first re-launched under Mora.
Studio Eneas shut down and rebranded in apparent response to negative articles and forums. It may be worth noting that Mora does not list it as part of her bio on any of her owned websites, which makes surfacing it here seem pertinent. Relevant quotes from the most reliable source on this front ( https://www.mtvuutiset.fi/artikkeli/mallitoimistot-puhuvat-suoraan-maksulliset-mallikansiot-silkkaa-rahastusta-selfie-riittaa-meille/5706914) are included below (translated from Finnish).
"According to Ketola it’s shocking how irresponsible it is to give empty promises to teenagers who dream of a model career who don’t really have any chance at the pool. I constantly get these model pictures paid for by the girls themselves with big money"
"Leskinen wants to warn about another actor, Studio Eneas:
- Paid folders have been made through this office and even girls have been taken abroad to meet the offices. Some parents say they made a mistake to pay up to thousands of euros for the trips, Leskinen reveals.
According to Ketola, Eneas has also asked for almost 1,000 euros from the model folder.
- The girl who was trying to be a model came to visit and said that she had been offered a model folder for more than 1000 euros, but then she was told that because she is so gorgeous, she would have received the pictures for half price, about 600 euros. However, he did not really have any opportunities to work as a model, says Ketola."
"Here's how Studio Eneas answered:
Studio Eneas has ceased operations and Evelyn Mora aka Kimia Moradzadeh will continue in the new company Evelyn Mora Corporation, whose Facebook pages are called Studio Eneas and the websites Eneas Corporation."
-- Lordwhatfools ( talk) 01:39, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
References
{{
edit extended-protected}}
template. Suggested edits violate the
Biographies of Living Persons and
Core Content Policies.
Eggishorn
(talk)
(contrib)
23:37, 1 February 2021 (UTC)I don't see anyone objecting to these edits from the previous kerfuffle, and everyone active on the talk page has endorsed. Since they are properly sourced will move them in shortly, if no one objects. Lordwhatfools ( talk) 18:32, 12 February 2021 (UTC)