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Reviewer: CaroleHenson ( talk · contribs) 07:12, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
I am looking forward to working on this article. I am surprised no one has elected to review it so far.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
07:12, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
I like this article, it provides insight into Mandela's first marriage that is rarely talked about. You have a nice writing style that I like. I have provided some comments to tweak it and make the content a little crisper and clearer.
There is a fair amount, though, of statements about what people think, which is not encyclopedic content. See the initial paragraph under WP:ENCYCLOPEDIC CONTENT and items #3 under WP:NOTGOSSIP. The article should be about the nature and milestones of her life, and not what others think and feel about her life.
There are also some places where there is extraneous detail. See WP:DETAIL. The detail should be removed or put into notes.
There are a lot of quotes, which would normally be a problem, but I like the ones that provide meaningful insight into Mase or Mase's relationship with Mandela. (i.e., it is best to keep the ones with punch and meaningful content and remove the ones that don't.)– CaroleHenson ( talk) 20:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Working as a nurse, she also trained on a midwifery course.is a bit awkward. How about something like: "Working as a nurse, she also trained to be a midwife" or "Working as a nurse, she took a midwifery course."
She initially filed for divorce, but withdrew this request.It was more than a request and is used again in a couple of sentences. Instead of request, how about filing, action, or something else?
Mase did not contest his request.Same thing here. It sounds better as "Mase did not contest the divorce", but perhaps you were concerned about using divorce too many times. Any thoughts that would be stronger than request?
they were also related, with their respective mothers being sisters.[6]They were first cousins, right? Instead of saying that they were related, it would be clearer to say like "they were first cousins, as their mothers were sisters."?
There, she befriended Walter's girlfriend Albertina, whom he had met in 1941 and whom marry in 1944.it is cleaner and more grammatically correct to say "whom he met in 1941 and married in 1944."
At the hospital she also worked alongside.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 23:49, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Mandela visited her in Durban at least once;[28] when in the city he stayed in the home of Fatima and Ismail Meer.[29]the second half of the sentence needs to be reworded. Perhaps reduced to "staying in the home of Fatima and Ismail Meer."
God Has Rested Her Soul– CaroleHenson ( talk) 04:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Later commenting on her conversion, Mandela wrote that "whether this was due to some dissatisfaction with her life at the time, I do not know".[28], particularly as there are already so many quotes in the article.
Mandela also claimed that they argued over their respective attempts to promote their views to their children; Mandela encouraging them to embrace African nationalist opinions and Mase seeking to convert them into Jehovah's Witnesses.[41] The biographer David James Smith later argued that Mandela's presentation of their marital problems as deriving from a conflict between his politics and her religion was "not quite the whole story".[42]
In his autobiography, Mandela claimed that he would often attend political meetings late at night and that this led Mase to accuse him of having an extra-marital affair.[43] In the book, his use of language implied that her accusations were untrue.[44]
In the book, his use of language implied that her accusations were untrue.[44]could be boiled down to "Mandela implied that he did not have extra-marital affairs."
Mase told Walter Sisulu about the affairs; this angered Mandela, who did not want news of his infidelity broadcast publicly.- "broadcast publicly" doesn't seem quite right - Sisulu was a good friend of the family, and broadcast publicly sounds like someone was speaking about it on the radio or tv. How about something like "shared with others".
According to Mandela's autobiography, in 1955 Mase presented him with an ultimatum: either he gave up his political activism or she would leave him.To keep the ultimatum in the same tense how about "he had to either give up his political activism or she would leave him."
The Sisulus were upset by this, with Walter trying to talk to Mandela about it; this angered him.[51] According to his autobiography, in December 1956, the police arrested Mandela and imprisoned him for two weeks before he was allowed out on bail. Returning home, he found that Mase had left him and taken their children with her.[52] At this point, Mandela stated, Mase temporarily moved in with her brother.[53] Scrutinising this account of events, Smith noted that this chronology did not match that from other sources. Thus, Smith related that, as far as he could tell, "that scene [of Mandela coming out of prison to find his wife had left him] never happened".[54]
Except for the few beginning and the one ending statement of the paragraph, the rest should be removed. This is extraneous detail that is not encyclopedic content. Instead, she claimed that Mandela had deserted her in February 1955 and then physically assaulted her in July, August, and October of that year, and again in February 1956 after she refused to leave their house.[55] She added that in March 1956 he had threatened to kill her with an axe unless she left his house. She stated that she then took refuge with a neighbour before moving in with her brother.[56] Mase's claims of assault would never be subjected to scrutiny in court;[54] Smith later noted that it is "entirely possible that Evelyn imagined all those stories of assault, out of malice or revenge, but the fact she alluded to them outside the divorce papers and that the neighbours were involved, lends at least some credence to her account."[57]
It should be removed, or perhaps put into a note.
A hearing was arranged, but postponed. In the meantime, Mandela was given custody of his sons on the provision that Mase would have access to them.[58] On 5 November 1956 Mase then withdrew her petition, offering no explanation why.[58] It is probable that Mandela and Mase had come to a personal arrangement. Smith thought that Mase was hoping for reconciliation with her husband, while Mandela wanted to avoid a public divorce hearing which would damage his standing in the ANC.[58] Their children went back and forth between the two homes over the coming months.[60] Mandela later acknowledged that their children were emotionally traumatised by the separation.[61] Despite living apart, Mase continued to view her and Mandela as being a married couple.[60]
Mase was a disciplinarian informed by her religious values; she for instance forbade them from watching films.
Mase later revealed that she travelled there.."revealed that she" is not needed.
bad feelings between her and Evelynbeing changed to something like "discord with Mase" that is a little more specific and uses the name used for Mase throughout the article?
Winnie was not passing any of it to Mase's offspring.[67]mean? Was Winnie supposed to give the money to Mase and she didn't? If it is not clear that Mandela did not support his children, this sentence is essentially gossip / extraneous and not of encyclopedic value.
Some members of Mase's family blamed Winnie for breaking up Mandela's first marriage, although Mandela had already separated from Mase prior to meeting Winnie.[63]
Mase's children also expressed some bitterness to Mandela himself.[72]– CaroleHenson ( talk) 20:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
You may want to consider adding / summarizing / paraphrasing some of these:
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not) |
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Thanks for your edits, the article looks good and I really enjoyed reading it, Midnightblueowl. I appreciate your thoughtfulness in receiving the feedback, and holding firm on some items that you felt did not improve the article. I think it looks great now and I will list as a GA article now.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 12:59, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
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Reviewer: CaroleHenson ( talk · contribs) 07:12, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
I am looking forward to working on this article. I am surprised no one has elected to review it so far.–
CaroleHenson (
talk)
07:12, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
I like this article, it provides insight into Mandela's first marriage that is rarely talked about. You have a nice writing style that I like. I have provided some comments to tweak it and make the content a little crisper and clearer.
There is a fair amount, though, of statements about what people think, which is not encyclopedic content. See the initial paragraph under WP:ENCYCLOPEDIC CONTENT and items #3 under WP:NOTGOSSIP. The article should be about the nature and milestones of her life, and not what others think and feel about her life.
There are also some places where there is extraneous detail. See WP:DETAIL. The detail should be removed or put into notes.
There are a lot of quotes, which would normally be a problem, but I like the ones that provide meaningful insight into Mase or Mase's relationship with Mandela. (i.e., it is best to keep the ones with punch and meaningful content and remove the ones that don't.)– CaroleHenson ( talk) 20:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Working as a nurse, she also trained on a midwifery course.is a bit awkward. How about something like: "Working as a nurse, she also trained to be a midwife" or "Working as a nurse, she took a midwifery course."
She initially filed for divorce, but withdrew this request.It was more than a request and is used again in a couple of sentences. Instead of request, how about filing, action, or something else?
Mase did not contest his request.Same thing here. It sounds better as "Mase did not contest the divorce", but perhaps you were concerned about using divorce too many times. Any thoughts that would be stronger than request?
they were also related, with their respective mothers being sisters.[6]They were first cousins, right? Instead of saying that they were related, it would be clearer to say like "they were first cousins, as their mothers were sisters."?
There, she befriended Walter's girlfriend Albertina, whom he had met in 1941 and whom marry in 1944.it is cleaner and more grammatically correct to say "whom he met in 1941 and married in 1944."
At the hospital she also worked alongside.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 23:49, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
Mandela visited her in Durban at least once;[28] when in the city he stayed in the home of Fatima and Ismail Meer.[29]the second half of the sentence needs to be reworded. Perhaps reduced to "staying in the home of Fatima and Ismail Meer."
God Has Rested Her Soul– CaroleHenson ( talk) 04:14, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
Later commenting on her conversion, Mandela wrote that "whether this was due to some dissatisfaction with her life at the time, I do not know".[28], particularly as there are already so many quotes in the article.
Mandela also claimed that they argued over their respective attempts to promote their views to their children; Mandela encouraging them to embrace African nationalist opinions and Mase seeking to convert them into Jehovah's Witnesses.[41] The biographer David James Smith later argued that Mandela's presentation of their marital problems as deriving from a conflict between his politics and her religion was "not quite the whole story".[42]
In his autobiography, Mandela claimed that he would often attend political meetings late at night and that this led Mase to accuse him of having an extra-marital affair.[43] In the book, his use of language implied that her accusations were untrue.[44]
In the book, his use of language implied that her accusations were untrue.[44]could be boiled down to "Mandela implied that he did not have extra-marital affairs."
Mase told Walter Sisulu about the affairs; this angered Mandela, who did not want news of his infidelity broadcast publicly.- "broadcast publicly" doesn't seem quite right - Sisulu was a good friend of the family, and broadcast publicly sounds like someone was speaking about it on the radio or tv. How about something like "shared with others".
According to Mandela's autobiography, in 1955 Mase presented him with an ultimatum: either he gave up his political activism or she would leave him.To keep the ultimatum in the same tense how about "he had to either give up his political activism or she would leave him."
The Sisulus were upset by this, with Walter trying to talk to Mandela about it; this angered him.[51] According to his autobiography, in December 1956, the police arrested Mandela and imprisoned him for two weeks before he was allowed out on bail. Returning home, he found that Mase had left him and taken their children with her.[52] At this point, Mandela stated, Mase temporarily moved in with her brother.[53] Scrutinising this account of events, Smith noted that this chronology did not match that from other sources. Thus, Smith related that, as far as he could tell, "that scene [of Mandela coming out of prison to find his wife had left him] never happened".[54]
Except for the few beginning and the one ending statement of the paragraph, the rest should be removed. This is extraneous detail that is not encyclopedic content. Instead, she claimed that Mandela had deserted her in February 1955 and then physically assaulted her in July, August, and October of that year, and again in February 1956 after she refused to leave their house.[55] She added that in March 1956 he had threatened to kill her with an axe unless she left his house. She stated that she then took refuge with a neighbour before moving in with her brother.[56] Mase's claims of assault would never be subjected to scrutiny in court;[54] Smith later noted that it is "entirely possible that Evelyn imagined all those stories of assault, out of malice or revenge, but the fact she alluded to them outside the divorce papers and that the neighbours were involved, lends at least some credence to her account."[57]
It should be removed, or perhaps put into a note.
A hearing was arranged, but postponed. In the meantime, Mandela was given custody of his sons on the provision that Mase would have access to them.[58] On 5 November 1956 Mase then withdrew her petition, offering no explanation why.[58] It is probable that Mandela and Mase had come to a personal arrangement. Smith thought that Mase was hoping for reconciliation with her husband, while Mandela wanted to avoid a public divorce hearing which would damage his standing in the ANC.[58] Their children went back and forth between the two homes over the coming months.[60] Mandela later acknowledged that their children were emotionally traumatised by the separation.[61] Despite living apart, Mase continued to view her and Mandela as being a married couple.[60]
Mase was a disciplinarian informed by her religious values; she for instance forbade them from watching films.
Mase later revealed that she travelled there.."revealed that she" is not needed.
bad feelings between her and Evelynbeing changed to something like "discord with Mase" that is a little more specific and uses the name used for Mase throughout the article?
Winnie was not passing any of it to Mase's offspring.[67]mean? Was Winnie supposed to give the money to Mase and she didn't? If it is not clear that Mandela did not support his children, this sentence is essentially gossip / extraneous and not of encyclopedic value.
Some members of Mase's family blamed Winnie for breaking up Mandela's first marriage, although Mandela had already separated from Mase prior to meeting Winnie.[63]
Mase's children also expressed some bitterness to Mandela himself.[72]– CaroleHenson ( talk) 20:40, 12 April 2020 (UTC)
You may want to consider adding / summarizing / paraphrasing some of these:
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not) |
---|
|
Overall: |
· · · |
Thanks for your edits, the article looks good and I really enjoyed reading it, Midnightblueowl. I appreciate your thoughtfulness in receiving the feedback, and holding firm on some items that you felt did not improve the article. I think it looks great now and I will list as a GA article now.– CaroleHenson ( talk) 12:59, 16 April 2020 (UTC)