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I'm concerned about this. The naming of the article should be in line with previous discussions - to wit, it should not be a generic name but rather one specific model. It should also not be plural... Therefore, I suggest "Fiat Ulysse" since that name has remained constant, or "Sevel van" or "Sevel minivan" since that's acceptably specific. I'm especially against calling the article "Eurovan" or anything similar since there is an unrelated specific model called this (the VW). I suggest a disambiguation page at "Eurovan" pointing to this and that. I see no problem using the word Eurovan in the article however, and calling it out as an "aka" in the infobox... -- SFoskett 21:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
This page became a nightmare to edit now, so let me reply by starting a new section. I will deal with the major issue below, but as concerns realigning the Sevel articles, I have asked Steve about that sometime ago, but we didn't pursue that topic any further. As I see you are the main author of one of those articles, and perhaps know more of the Sevel operations and the commercial vans than I do, I believe you can expand and realign those articles better. Or would you prefer me to try to do it first?
First of all, let me express my belief that the English Wikipedia is not the "Wikipedia for people from countries where English is the official language", but "Wikipedia in English" - and, as English is the lingua franca of today, a general Wikipedia. As such, it adopts English as the language the articles are written in, but does not, and should not, adopt the POV of the British, Americans, Australians or whoever else.
As concerns Google search, I am using the standard version of Google (www.google.com, English interface) - try searching for "Eurovan PSA" to filter out the omnipresent Volkswagen. Out of the results I got that way, I have chosen AutoBild Lexikon because it seemed the most "formal" source. The name is used in many European countries and languages, therefore it didn't seem that important to me that this particular one isn't in English. As concerns "commonly used" - I know it is NOT commonly used, as the vehicles aren't often referred to as a group. But we need a name for the article, so if there is a name used at least sometimes, it's better than nothing. I wanted to avoid a naming disaster like the French article.
As concerns "Eurovan" as a generic name for a van from Europe, this is an out-of-Europe POV, but disambiguation notices are to help people of different backgrounds and accustomed to different naming help find what they are looking for. If an American user, who heard somebody speak of "Eurovans", comes to this article, he or she might find out that this is what was meant. I guess I could have put it better, but I hope you get what I mean.
Regards, Bravada, talk - 22:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
I know that the 806 was also sold in the last year of production fitted with the DW10ATED4 HDI engine. This is the 110bhp 2.0 16 valve common rail engine. This engine was basically the bottom of the DW10 engine fitted with the 16 valve head off of the 2.2 HDI from the 406. It didn't have ethe balancer shafts in the sump or the particulate filter like the 2.2 though. Regards dieselnutjob
why does a search for "ulysse" redirects here? shouldn't it redirect to a disambiguation page instead? 74.56.152.155 ( talk) 04:49, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Although i freely admit i don't like these massively grouped pages of 4 or 5 cars i'll point out an obvious problem with them when they're as short as this one - they create very little information on some models and favour others over the rest. In this case the Citroen C8 redirects here yet gets no mention at all while all other models get their own paragraph. I'm not sure if that's through popularity or not but it's unfair even for a rebadged van to get no mention among others that did. I might add whatever info i can find myself. Thanks Jenova 20 13:05, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I think the Citroen c8 is awsome Pugani ( talk) 19:24, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
I guess the rationale for merging Citroën Evasion, Peugeot 806, Fiat Ulysse, and Lancia Zeta was that they are rebadged vehicles from the same assembly line. However the merger creates more problems than it solves:
What would be helpful to readers and consistent with Wikipedia practices would be to separate the pages for the Peugeot 806, Fiat Ulysse, and Lancia Zeta, with Citroën Evasion and Citroën C8 combined. -- Cornellier ( talk) 15:21, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
I've declined to move it, as I see no such consensus. It does not seem obvious to move an article discussing multiple models and marques into an article for a single one of them, however representative. It might make sense to have this a general article in WP:Summary style, however; I have no opinion on what the right name would be for it. I suggest a formal RfA. DGG ( talk ) 19:30, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Having taken prima facie the assertion that "Eurovan" is a non-notable term thus far, today I've spent the afternoon checking the internet to verify for myself. Based on this I have come to the conclusion that "Eurovan" is a notable term for these vehicles. While I agree that in isolation the vehicles are commonly referred to by their individual names, e.g. Peugeot 806, Fiat Ulysse, et cetera; when discussed as a group I found many references to the "Eurovan" alias.
These references are skewed towards non-English sources, but the Eurovans are themselves skewed to non-English speaking markets. The UK is the only notable English-speaking market for these cars, and I get the impression that they were never very popular there. As of today, a search of the 2002–2014 Peugeot 807 at autotrader.co.uk gave just 88 results. The 2004–2010 Peugeot 407 large sedan provided 684 results, the 2010–present Peugeot 508 provided 478 results (so 1,162 large sedans vs. 88 vans over a time period in favour of the vans). The 2001–2007 Peugeot 307 small car provided 2,135 results, and the 2007–present Peugeot 308 small car provided 3,083 results (so 5,218 small cars vs. 88 vans over roughly the same time period).
Here is a fairly long list of 37 articles or companies (not forums) using the term "Eurovan" in the context of the vehicles of interest:
|
There would be more, but I stopped after page 10 on Google search results. This is a web-only analysis for vehicles that in the first generation launched (1994) when car news was rarely reported on the internet, and for the second generation (2002), when such reporting was in its infancy only. I'd wager that contemporary books, magazines, and newspapers would provide further documentation. Unless there is overwhelming evidence that makes either the Citroën or Peugeot significantly more notable than the other, I think the "Eurovan" title should remain in place. OSX ( talk • contributions) 06:41, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
A long look through the vast troves of WT:CARS will show otherwise. The Toyota Aygo, et al. is one example that was left unmerged because a name could not be decided. Only a minority of rebadged cars have their own articles, and more and more are getting merged all the time. OSX ( talk • contributions) 22:54, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
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Eurovans Pugani ( talk) 19:24, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Eurovans article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
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I'm concerned about this. The naming of the article should be in line with previous discussions - to wit, it should not be a generic name but rather one specific model. It should also not be plural... Therefore, I suggest "Fiat Ulysse" since that name has remained constant, or "Sevel van" or "Sevel minivan" since that's acceptably specific. I'm especially against calling the article "Eurovan" or anything similar since there is an unrelated specific model called this (the VW). I suggest a disambiguation page at "Eurovan" pointing to this and that. I see no problem using the word Eurovan in the article however, and calling it out as an "aka" in the infobox... -- SFoskett 21:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
This page became a nightmare to edit now, so let me reply by starting a new section. I will deal with the major issue below, but as concerns realigning the Sevel articles, I have asked Steve about that sometime ago, but we didn't pursue that topic any further. As I see you are the main author of one of those articles, and perhaps know more of the Sevel operations and the commercial vans than I do, I believe you can expand and realign those articles better. Or would you prefer me to try to do it first?
First of all, let me express my belief that the English Wikipedia is not the "Wikipedia for people from countries where English is the official language", but "Wikipedia in English" - and, as English is the lingua franca of today, a general Wikipedia. As such, it adopts English as the language the articles are written in, but does not, and should not, adopt the POV of the British, Americans, Australians or whoever else.
As concerns Google search, I am using the standard version of Google (www.google.com, English interface) - try searching for "Eurovan PSA" to filter out the omnipresent Volkswagen. Out of the results I got that way, I have chosen AutoBild Lexikon because it seemed the most "formal" source. The name is used in many European countries and languages, therefore it didn't seem that important to me that this particular one isn't in English. As concerns "commonly used" - I know it is NOT commonly used, as the vehicles aren't often referred to as a group. But we need a name for the article, so if there is a name used at least sometimes, it's better than nothing. I wanted to avoid a naming disaster like the French article.
As concerns "Eurovan" as a generic name for a van from Europe, this is an out-of-Europe POV, but disambiguation notices are to help people of different backgrounds and accustomed to different naming help find what they are looking for. If an American user, who heard somebody speak of "Eurovans", comes to this article, he or she might find out that this is what was meant. I guess I could have put it better, but I hope you get what I mean.
Regards, Bravada, talk - 22:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
I know that the 806 was also sold in the last year of production fitted with the DW10ATED4 HDI engine. This is the 110bhp 2.0 16 valve common rail engine. This engine was basically the bottom of the DW10 engine fitted with the 16 valve head off of the 2.2 HDI from the 406. It didn't have ethe balancer shafts in the sump or the particulate filter like the 2.2 though. Regards dieselnutjob
why does a search for "ulysse" redirects here? shouldn't it redirect to a disambiguation page instead? 74.56.152.155 ( talk) 04:49, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Although i freely admit i don't like these massively grouped pages of 4 or 5 cars i'll point out an obvious problem with them when they're as short as this one - they create very little information on some models and favour others over the rest. In this case the Citroen C8 redirects here yet gets no mention at all while all other models get their own paragraph. I'm not sure if that's through popularity or not but it's unfair even for a rebadged van to get no mention among others that did. I might add whatever info i can find myself. Thanks Jenova 20 13:05, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
I think the Citroen c8 is awsome Pugani ( talk) 19:24, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
I guess the rationale for merging Citroën Evasion, Peugeot 806, Fiat Ulysse, and Lancia Zeta was that they are rebadged vehicles from the same assembly line. However the merger creates more problems than it solves:
What would be helpful to readers and consistent with Wikipedia practices would be to separate the pages for the Peugeot 806, Fiat Ulysse, and Lancia Zeta, with Citroën Evasion and Citroën C8 combined. -- Cornellier ( talk) 15:21, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
I've declined to move it, as I see no such consensus. It does not seem obvious to move an article discussing multiple models and marques into an article for a single one of them, however representative. It might make sense to have this a general article in WP:Summary style, however; I have no opinion on what the right name would be for it. I suggest a formal RfA. DGG ( talk ) 19:30, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
Having taken prima facie the assertion that "Eurovan" is a non-notable term thus far, today I've spent the afternoon checking the internet to verify for myself. Based on this I have come to the conclusion that "Eurovan" is a notable term for these vehicles. While I agree that in isolation the vehicles are commonly referred to by their individual names, e.g. Peugeot 806, Fiat Ulysse, et cetera; when discussed as a group I found many references to the "Eurovan" alias.
These references are skewed towards non-English sources, but the Eurovans are themselves skewed to non-English speaking markets. The UK is the only notable English-speaking market for these cars, and I get the impression that they were never very popular there. As of today, a search of the 2002–2014 Peugeot 807 at autotrader.co.uk gave just 88 results. The 2004–2010 Peugeot 407 large sedan provided 684 results, the 2010–present Peugeot 508 provided 478 results (so 1,162 large sedans vs. 88 vans over a time period in favour of the vans). The 2001–2007 Peugeot 307 small car provided 2,135 results, and the 2007–present Peugeot 308 small car provided 3,083 results (so 5,218 small cars vs. 88 vans over roughly the same time period).
Here is a fairly long list of 37 articles or companies (not forums) using the term "Eurovan" in the context of the vehicles of interest:
|
There would be more, but I stopped after page 10 on Google search results. This is a web-only analysis for vehicles that in the first generation launched (1994) when car news was rarely reported on the internet, and for the second generation (2002), when such reporting was in its infancy only. I'd wager that contemporary books, magazines, and newspapers would provide further documentation. Unless there is overwhelming evidence that makes either the Citroën or Peugeot significantly more notable than the other, I think the "Eurovan" title should remain in place. OSX ( talk • contributions) 06:41, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
A long look through the vast troves of WT:CARS will show otherwise. The Toyota Aygo, et al. is one example that was left unmerged because a name could not be decided. Only a minority of rebadged cars have their own articles, and more and more are getting merged all the time. OSX ( talk • contributions) 22:54, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
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Eurovans Pugani ( talk) 19:24, 21 May 2021 (UTC)