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This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Europäischer Mufflon from the German Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. (This notice applies to version 797552471 and subsequent versions of this page.) |
The Italian wikipedia page it:Ovis musimon is about the same topic but it is categorized as a different one. This prevents me to add a link from this article to the Italian article (and to any other language's article that is linked to the Italian article). I am not sure how to fix this. 37.109.33.109 ( talk) 08:51, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
Should I classify the European mouflon as a domestic animal or a wild animal? ( talk) 19:43, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Well it seems to me that the European mouflon is a feral descendant of ancient domestic sheep, however I noticed its scientific name has changed to Ovis aries musimon. Dennis the mennis ( talk) 08:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
The reason why the European mouflon is a descendant of domestic sheep is because its ancestors were brought to Corsica and Sardinia by the Neolithic people therefore it should be classified as a feral sheep. Dennis the mennis ( talk) 08:15, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
I haven't found any kind of source that refers to European mouflons as feral descendants of domestic sheep yet. Dennis the mennis ( talk) 16:40, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
The article on domestic sheep says they are thought to be descended from mouflon. The article on mouflon says tthey are thought to be descended from domestic sheep. They can't both be right. If there is genuine uncertainty this should be reflected in both articles. Stub Mandrel ( talk) 07:10, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Clearly it is a subspecies of domestic sheep (O. aries), as I have already provided a citation ( [1]) from the American Society of Mammalolgists for this information. I don't know why it keeps being reverted. 152.0.253.67 ( talk) 21:34, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
I've posted a 'dispute' tag because the issue of the relationship between the European mouflon and the domestic sheep. Editors unfamiliar with such tags may wish to read guidance about removing maintenance templates, but essentially the tag should only be removed once consensus is achieved. My sense is that this should be achievable with wider input from those familiar with the subject, so I will flag this up at WikiProject Mammals. Bermicourt ( talk) 17:54, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
I've rechecked the sources we've both quoted and they seem to be in agreement. According to the IUCN website, Ovis aries is the
domestic sheep and Ovies gmelini is the
Mouflon. The most complete and up-to-date description appear to be the Taxonomic Notes on the Ovies gmelini page which inter alia make the following points:
So where does that leave us? Noting that there are differing views among modern sources and ambiguities even in the IUCN online data, I'd suggest the following key points.
Bearing all that in mind, it is unsurprising that there is confusion because there are two groups of mouflon: the Oriental Mouflon O. gmelini with 3-5 subspecies, which is the ancestor of the domestic sheep and found in eastern Europe and the Middle East; and the European Mouflon, a subspecies of O. aries (presumably O. a. musimon as per German Wiki) which is a feral descendant of the primitive [not modern] domestic sheep and includes the Corsican and Sardinian flocks that appear to have been its origins. My sense is that if the lede were to explain that the European Mouflon is a feral subspecies of the primitive domestic sheep and some text were added to clarify the difference between this and the Oriental Mouflon, both here and at that page, that would largely clear up the issue. Obviously I won't use the term Oriental Mouflon in the articles as that's my shorthand.
If others agree, I'm happy to make the initial changes and remove the 'disputed' tag. Bermicourt ( talk) 15:26, 12 September 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
This article was edited to contain a total or partial translation of Europäischer Mufflon from the German Wikipedia. Consult the history of the original page to see a list of its authors. (This notice applies to version 797552471 and subsequent versions of this page.) |
The Italian wikipedia page it:Ovis musimon is about the same topic but it is categorized as a different one. This prevents me to add a link from this article to the Italian article (and to any other language's article that is linked to the Italian article). I am not sure how to fix this. 37.109.33.109 ( talk) 08:51, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
Should I classify the European mouflon as a domestic animal or a wild animal? ( talk) 19:43, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
Well it seems to me that the European mouflon is a feral descendant of ancient domestic sheep, however I noticed its scientific name has changed to Ovis aries musimon. Dennis the mennis ( talk) 08:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
The reason why the European mouflon is a descendant of domestic sheep is because its ancestors were brought to Corsica and Sardinia by the Neolithic people therefore it should be classified as a feral sheep. Dennis the mennis ( talk) 08:15, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
I haven't found any kind of source that refers to European mouflons as feral descendants of domestic sheep yet. Dennis the mennis ( talk) 16:40, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
The article on domestic sheep says they are thought to be descended from mouflon. The article on mouflon says tthey are thought to be descended from domestic sheep. They can't both be right. If there is genuine uncertainty this should be reflected in both articles. Stub Mandrel ( talk) 07:10, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Clearly it is a subspecies of domestic sheep (O. aries), as I have already provided a citation ( [1]) from the American Society of Mammalolgists for this information. I don't know why it keeps being reverted. 152.0.253.67 ( talk) 21:34, 7 July 2021 (UTC)
I've posted a 'dispute' tag because the issue of the relationship between the European mouflon and the domestic sheep. Editors unfamiliar with such tags may wish to read guidance about removing maintenance templates, but essentially the tag should only be removed once consensus is achieved. My sense is that this should be achievable with wider input from those familiar with the subject, so I will flag this up at WikiProject Mammals. Bermicourt ( talk) 17:54, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
I've rechecked the sources we've both quoted and they seem to be in agreement. According to the IUCN website, Ovis aries is the
domestic sheep and Ovies gmelini is the
Mouflon. The most complete and up-to-date description appear to be the Taxonomic Notes on the Ovies gmelini page which inter alia make the following points:
So where does that leave us? Noting that there are differing views among modern sources and ambiguities even in the IUCN online data, I'd suggest the following key points.
Bearing all that in mind, it is unsurprising that there is confusion because there are two groups of mouflon: the Oriental Mouflon O. gmelini with 3-5 subspecies, which is the ancestor of the domestic sheep and found in eastern Europe and the Middle East; and the European Mouflon, a subspecies of O. aries (presumably O. a. musimon as per German Wiki) which is a feral descendant of the primitive [not modern] domestic sheep and includes the Corsican and Sardinian flocks that appear to have been its origins. My sense is that if the lede were to explain that the European Mouflon is a feral subspecies of the primitive domestic sheep and some text were added to clarify the difference between this and the Oriental Mouflon, both here and at that page, that would largely clear up the issue. Obviously I won't use the term Oriental Mouflon in the articles as that's my shorthand.
If others agree, I'm happy to make the initial changes and remove the 'disputed' tag. Bermicourt ( talk) 15:26, 12 September 2021 (UTC)