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![]() | A fact from European Commission–AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine dispute appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 9 April 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
I strongly doubt that Covid vaccine war is the correct common name per WP:COMMONNAME for a minor local dispute. Maybe the Independent did two days ago use the inflammatory newspaper headline "Vaccine war ... " but that's not the right basis on which to choose a Wikipedia article title. MichaelMaggs ( talk) 11:59, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
I agree that title is dumb, so I changed it. It seems it might involve more than just EU and AstraZeneca, so I'm not sure what would be the best title, but just not using "war" is definitely an improvement. Taw ( talk) 20:57, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello, fellow editors. Can we move the article to COVID-19 vaccine dispute before anything else? This move would be independent from the other moves being discussed ↑here↑, one of which might happen sometime in the future. I am proposing this because "COVID" is an incorrect spelling of the name of the disease with the name "COVID-19". ACLNM ( talk) 01:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
This is only one international dispute regarding the pandemic. The page title is vague despite this and it made me think that this page could potentially serve a wider scope should similar disputes happen in future. Gsurfer04 ( talk) 01:05, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk)
21:05, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Created by Cwmhiraeth ( talk) and Dumelow ( talk). Nominated by Cwmhiraeth ( talk) at 07:32, 3 February 2021 (UTC).
Whether relevant or not for DYK I have concerns this article has not been expanded to cover some of the fallout from this dispute (I'm unsure if this affects DYK). This includes: fallout impact on the ramifications of threat of revoking Article 16 (e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55882140) ; the impact of the threat of export controls ; where the 9m doses have been magic'd from (I think I read AZ had procured extra capacity); Questions about more UK support for Valneva vaccine rather than EU/French support; pressure on Commission President Ursula von der Leyen .... I'm too tied RL currently to try to expand article which could be controversial but it probably needs nuturing and expansion in my view. It also really needs a Template:Gs/talk notice for covid if chosen for DYK. Otherwise probably has merits for DYK but DYK is not a zone I follow or know much about. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark ( talk)
{{subst:DYK?again}}
tag once that's resolved.
Schwede
66
01:21, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
The article was new enough when it got nominated. The article is plenty long enough and we checked the early edit summaries whether any prose got copied from other articles; there was no obvious evidence of this and the early version we checked from 31 Jan was quite substantial already. The article is neutral and within policy. Could "the head of Germany's Standing Committee on Vaccination" perhaps be rephrased to be different to the source (is he a "chief executive", "chairperson", or "director", or something like that?)?
The reviewing guide states: "Consider very carefully whether the hook puts undue emphasis on a negative aspect of a living individual. Err on the side of caution, and when in doubt, suggest an ALT hook." As a group of Kiwi editors (sitting together in a large group in one room and no mask in sight – just saying), we are somewhat removed from the drama in Europe but wondered whether Arlene Foster would be happy to have the "absolutely incredible act of hostility" language associated to her. To that end, we wonder whether an alternative hook could be more suitable, e.g. the European Union reversing its decision the following day and admitting that they got it wrong? Please write an alternative hook for us to consider. Schwede 66 23:11, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
ALT1 is approved. The close paraphrasing outlined above (i.e. "the head of Germany's Standing Committee on Vaccination") is still to be addressed. Once that's done, it's all go.
Schwede
66
20:30, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
https://news.sky.com/story/astrazenecas-jab-has-had-a-bumpy-rollout-in-the-eu-but-how-did-it-play-out-12236052 Jopal22 ( talk) 16:38, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
This Politico article has an interesting analysis of the AZ UK/EU contracts, which may be at the root cause of some of the events: [2]. 11:03, 27 March 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djm-leighpark ( talk • contribs)
Chrisskidmore, please be very careful in how you edit this article. Specifically with regards to two recent edits you made:
I am concerned that you are selectively deleting statements to suit an agenda. While all help is welcomed in improving this article it is important that we reflect a neutral point of view - Dumelow ( talk) 06:15, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
With regard to the first edit. I am interested in fact. Even if it was in The Independent, a paper I actually admire, quotes from unnamed "officials" in todays world and against am emotive backdrop, I don't see as reliable. The 2nd edit. But surely when something is untrue, it should not appear in a neutral argument just because a newspaper said it, whether that source is normally reputable or not. I did try adding a link to the actual contract that the UK signed on the 28th August that can be found in the UKs own contracts website, but this was deleted by the author because it was a "primary source". There seems to be some confusion with contracts. There is a difference between the advance purchase "contracts" and the supply and delivery contracts that are getting confused in the article that needs clarification. By deleting that line I hoped to remove some of the confusion. Chrisskidmore ( talk) 07:01, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
The current version insinuates that the EU's early vaccination campaign was slower because Macron criticised AstraZeneca for the lack of efficacy data for over 65s, but this has obviously nothing to do with the pace of the vaccine rollout. One desperately expects some balance and information on why EU regulators took more time if this background is presented to the reader. However, I shall take into account your reservations on my wording and suggest an alternative version in the main text. We can of course discuss this text here on the talk page. Rominator ( talk) 09:11, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Djm-leighpark Thank you for flagging the Telegraph source. I too noticed that this is behind a paywall, but as I did want to extremely careful in altering the text substance before my first edit, I did not do this and only changed text where it directly contradicted the text found in the source provided. Rominator ( talk) 21:49, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
I believe this is a inappropriate and inaccurate section name for the content of the section; assuming the "British media" refers to the "Daily Telegraph". If so at worst case these is a deliberate attempt to defame "The Daily Telegraph", and its writers: James Crisp; Justin Huggler, and Sarah Knapton. The content of the section of this article, and probably also the underlying source, do not support "British right-wing media allegations of unused stockpiles", but rather relating to the claims revolving round: "The European Commission has urged governments to stop sitting on vaccine stockpiles as infection rates rise" which is a subtly different allegation. e.g. [3]. I am willing to concede the EU/EC source may have been misrepresented/misquoted whatever, but I am reasonably certain the section title cannot be supported. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark ( talk) 22:04, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
References
In Germany this is 12 weeks: "The new data also shows that the vaccine is even more effective when the first and second jabs are administered 12 weeks apart," the [German] minister said, adding that the law would be updated to incorporate the new recommendations. [5] I think this is more or less the same in most or all other member states, but would need to look this up further. Rominator ( talk) 11:05, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Cwmhiraeth I have now added a paragraph in response to the query you raised on my my talk page. Rominator ( talk) 20:10, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Dumelow
You wrote: not seeing any mention in the article linking AZ inexperience with supply problems or clinical trial issues?
Quoting from the Spiegel article: the pharmaceutical giant [AZ] has no experience in vaccine research. The article then goes on about the subcontractors that didn't deliver (as a result) and finally: AstraZeneca’s studies had been plagued by inaccuracies. (describing a number of flaws in the clinical studies. Th general thrust is that this a result of the company's lack of experience in vaccine research. Also the abstract: But after a series of mishaps at the company, trust in the substance that was supposed to help end the pandemic is eroding. (summarising issues with supply chains and clinical trials described in the article).
You further wrote The background for this was the decision of the UK to leave the European Union." article doesn't state this
The article says: With Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government’s energies fully focused on leaving the EU... and A Company Gets Caught Between the Fronts (headline, i.e. after the UK and EU departed)
As to your questions
Also you have deleted reference to the Daily Telegraph as the source of a highly dubious claim, even though this claim has officially ruled out, but the sentence still tries to sell this as a "fact". This is not neutral POV.
I have a closer look into other changes tomorrow. Rominator ( talk) 21:57, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Fairly significant press brief 28 April 2021 with Matt Hancock & Johnathan Van Tam & Nikita Kanani. Ignore the self-congratulatory stuff ... its more a recognition of the front line vaccination effort. It goes some way to explain parts of the UK approach. Van-Tam (always worth listening to) goes to justify the UK approach to get the vaccination roll out complete in order to "And I can’t emphasize how important the vaccine program continues to be because we are at the moment down to 42 year olds, but we need to go much further down and continue that high uptake to put us in a really sustainably safe place." (I think he has said with the vaccination programme before "do it once and do it right"). He covers planning/reasoning for a booster jab that will likely be needed at some point. He covers that the UK "3rd wave" (the UK "2nd wave had two peaks so sometimes is considered as two waves ... and Van-Tam almost uses it inconsistently for a predicted 3rd wave (or some would say 4th wave). He covers that Lockdown not vaccination was responsible for curtailing the Winter 2020/21 wave with the UK/Kent variant; with vaccination contribution only coming in at the later stages). There's a transcript here but beware of spelling issues: [8]. Djm-leighpark ( talk) 23:30, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
This is an excellent website that gives a full account of vaccine doses delivered and administered in all EEA states, broken down by brand and updated on a daily basis (top right tile): [9] For example, the Netherlands have received 1,414,100 doses of AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria) and administered 1,280,216 (as of 29 April). But the Daily Mail wrote an article which most readers understood said that the Netherlands have received 11 m doses and adminstered just 1.5 m due to constraints and : Most of Holland's 11million doses of AstraZeneca Covid vaccine will go UNUSED after government restricted its use on under-60s despite soaring cases ... While the Netherlands has ordered 11 million doses of the jab, which is only being given to people between the ages of 60 and 64, only 1.5 million doses have been handed out so far to the population of around 17 million. [10] (Obiously, the 11 m is the total order, the Dutch share from the overall 300 m doses, of which only 1.4 m have arrived so far. "Handed out" means handed out by AstraZeneca to Netherlands/the EU, but most people would understand that this means the Netherlands have handed out only 1.5 m out of 11m they ordered) The only country I can see that really seems to have an issue with the AstraZeneca vaccine is Greece. Perhaps they are more picky than others. Most European "stockpiles" are Moderna doses (kept for second shots). Rominator ( talk) 07:15, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
I just came across this report in the Guardian in April 2021, (when looking for something else), indicating AZD1222 shipments from UK to Austrailia. I am minded these may be true, or it may have been the wrong end of the stick with the UK's role in creating the vaccine being misreported by the Sydney Herald that it was the UK that manufactured these dose batches [11]. Noting this here anyway. Djm-mobile ( talk) 12:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC) (Djm-leighpark)
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
COVID-19, broadly construed, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from European Commission–AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine dispute appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 9 April 2021 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
| ![]() |
I strongly doubt that Covid vaccine war is the correct common name per WP:COMMONNAME for a minor local dispute. Maybe the Independent did two days ago use the inflammatory newspaper headline "Vaccine war ... " but that's not the right basis on which to choose a Wikipedia article title. MichaelMaggs ( talk) 11:59, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
I agree that title is dumb, so I changed it. It seems it might involve more than just EU and AstraZeneca, so I'm not sure what would be the best title, but just not using "war" is definitely an improvement. Taw ( talk) 20:57, 30 January 2021 (UTC)
Hello, fellow editors. Can we move the article to COVID-19 vaccine dispute before anything else? This move would be independent from the other moves being discussed ↑here↑, one of which might happen sometime in the future. I am proposing this because "COVID" is an incorrect spelling of the name of the disease with the name "COVID-19". ACLNM ( talk) 01:40, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
This is only one international dispute regarding the pandemic. The page title is vague despite this and it made me think that this page could potentially serve a wider scope should similar disputes happen in future. Gsurfer04 ( talk) 01:05, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
The result was: promoted by
SL93 (
talk)
21:05, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Created by Cwmhiraeth ( talk) and Dumelow ( talk). Nominated by Cwmhiraeth ( talk) at 07:32, 3 February 2021 (UTC).
Whether relevant or not for DYK I have concerns this article has not been expanded to cover some of the fallout from this dispute (I'm unsure if this affects DYK). This includes: fallout impact on the ramifications of threat of revoking Article 16 (e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55882140) ; the impact of the threat of export controls ; where the 9m doses have been magic'd from (I think I read AZ had procured extra capacity); Questions about more UK support for Valneva vaccine rather than EU/French support; pressure on Commission President Ursula von der Leyen .... I'm too tied RL currently to try to expand article which could be controversial but it probably needs nuturing and expansion in my view. It also really needs a Template:Gs/talk notice for covid if chosen for DYK. Otherwise probably has merits for DYK but DYK is not a zone I follow or know much about. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark ( talk)
{{subst:DYK?again}}
tag once that's resolved.
Schwede
66
01:21, 6 February 2021 (UTC)
The article was new enough when it got nominated. The article is plenty long enough and we checked the early edit summaries whether any prose got copied from other articles; there was no obvious evidence of this and the early version we checked from 31 Jan was quite substantial already. The article is neutral and within policy. Could "the head of Germany's Standing Committee on Vaccination" perhaps be rephrased to be different to the source (is he a "chief executive", "chairperson", or "director", or something like that?)?
The reviewing guide states: "Consider very carefully whether the hook puts undue emphasis on a negative aspect of a living individual. Err on the side of caution, and when in doubt, suggest an ALT hook." As a group of Kiwi editors (sitting together in a large group in one room and no mask in sight – just saying), we are somewhat removed from the drama in Europe but wondered whether Arlene Foster would be happy to have the "absolutely incredible act of hostility" language associated to her. To that end, we wonder whether an alternative hook could be more suitable, e.g. the European Union reversing its decision the following day and admitting that they got it wrong? Please write an alternative hook for us to consider. Schwede 66 23:11, 20 March 2021 (UTC)
ALT1 is approved. The close paraphrasing outlined above (i.e. "the head of Germany's Standing Committee on Vaccination") is still to be addressed. Once that's done, it's all go.
Schwede
66
20:30, 4 April 2021 (UTC)
https://news.sky.com/story/astrazenecas-jab-has-had-a-bumpy-rollout-in-the-eu-but-how-did-it-play-out-12236052 Jopal22 ( talk) 16:38, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
This Politico article has an interesting analysis of the AZ UK/EU contracts, which may be at the root cause of some of the events: [2]. 11:03, 27 March 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djm-leighpark ( talk • contribs)
Chrisskidmore, please be very careful in how you edit this article. Specifically with regards to two recent edits you made:
I am concerned that you are selectively deleting statements to suit an agenda. While all help is welcomed in improving this article it is important that we reflect a neutral point of view - Dumelow ( talk) 06:15, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
With regard to the first edit. I am interested in fact. Even if it was in The Independent, a paper I actually admire, quotes from unnamed "officials" in todays world and against am emotive backdrop, I don't see as reliable. The 2nd edit. But surely when something is untrue, it should not appear in a neutral argument just because a newspaper said it, whether that source is normally reputable or not. I did try adding a link to the actual contract that the UK signed on the 28th August that can be found in the UKs own contracts website, but this was deleted by the author because it was a "primary source". There seems to be some confusion with contracts. There is a difference between the advance purchase "contracts" and the supply and delivery contracts that are getting confused in the article that needs clarification. By deleting that line I hoped to remove some of the confusion. Chrisskidmore ( talk) 07:01, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
The current version insinuates that the EU's early vaccination campaign was slower because Macron criticised AstraZeneca for the lack of efficacy data for over 65s, but this has obviously nothing to do with the pace of the vaccine rollout. One desperately expects some balance and information on why EU regulators took more time if this background is presented to the reader. However, I shall take into account your reservations on my wording and suggest an alternative version in the main text. We can of course discuss this text here on the talk page. Rominator ( talk) 09:11, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Djm-leighpark Thank you for flagging the Telegraph source. I too noticed that this is behind a paywall, but as I did want to extremely careful in altering the text substance before my first edit, I did not do this and only changed text where it directly contradicted the text found in the source provided. Rominator ( talk) 21:49, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
I believe this is a inappropriate and inaccurate section name for the content of the section; assuming the "British media" refers to the "Daily Telegraph". If so at worst case these is a deliberate attempt to defame "The Daily Telegraph", and its writers: James Crisp; Justin Huggler, and Sarah Knapton. The content of the section of this article, and probably also the underlying source, do not support "British right-wing media allegations of unused stockpiles", but rather relating to the claims revolving round: "The European Commission has urged governments to stop sitting on vaccine stockpiles as infection rates rise" which is a subtly different allegation. e.g. [3]. I am willing to concede the EU/EC source may have been misrepresented/misquoted whatever, but I am reasonably certain the section title cannot be supported. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark ( talk) 22:04, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
References
In Germany this is 12 weeks: "The new data also shows that the vaccine is even more effective when the first and second jabs are administered 12 weeks apart," the [German] minister said, adding that the law would be updated to incorporate the new recommendations. [5] I think this is more or less the same in most or all other member states, but would need to look this up further. Rominator ( talk) 11:05, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Cwmhiraeth I have now added a paragraph in response to the query you raised on my my talk page. Rominator ( talk) 20:10, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
@ Dumelow
You wrote: not seeing any mention in the article linking AZ inexperience with supply problems or clinical trial issues?
Quoting from the Spiegel article: the pharmaceutical giant [AZ] has no experience in vaccine research. The article then goes on about the subcontractors that didn't deliver (as a result) and finally: AstraZeneca’s studies had been plagued by inaccuracies. (describing a number of flaws in the clinical studies. Th general thrust is that this a result of the company's lack of experience in vaccine research. Also the abstract: But after a series of mishaps at the company, trust in the substance that was supposed to help end the pandemic is eroding. (summarising issues with supply chains and clinical trials described in the article).
You further wrote The background for this was the decision of the UK to leave the European Union." article doesn't state this
The article says: With Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s government’s energies fully focused on leaving the EU... and A Company Gets Caught Between the Fronts (headline, i.e. after the UK and EU departed)
As to your questions
Also you have deleted reference to the Daily Telegraph as the source of a highly dubious claim, even though this claim has officially ruled out, but the sentence still tries to sell this as a "fact". This is not neutral POV.
I have a closer look into other changes tomorrow. Rominator ( talk) 21:57, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Fairly significant press brief 28 April 2021 with Matt Hancock & Johnathan Van Tam & Nikita Kanani. Ignore the self-congratulatory stuff ... its more a recognition of the front line vaccination effort. It goes some way to explain parts of the UK approach. Van-Tam (always worth listening to) goes to justify the UK approach to get the vaccination roll out complete in order to "And I can’t emphasize how important the vaccine program continues to be because we are at the moment down to 42 year olds, but we need to go much further down and continue that high uptake to put us in a really sustainably safe place." (I think he has said with the vaccination programme before "do it once and do it right"). He covers planning/reasoning for a booster jab that will likely be needed at some point. He covers that the UK "3rd wave" (the UK "2nd wave had two peaks so sometimes is considered as two waves ... and Van-Tam almost uses it inconsistently for a predicted 3rd wave (or some would say 4th wave). He covers that Lockdown not vaccination was responsible for curtailing the Winter 2020/21 wave with the UK/Kent variant; with vaccination contribution only coming in at the later stages). There's a transcript here but beware of spelling issues: [8]. Djm-leighpark ( talk) 23:30, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
This is an excellent website that gives a full account of vaccine doses delivered and administered in all EEA states, broken down by brand and updated on a daily basis (top right tile): [9] For example, the Netherlands have received 1,414,100 doses of AstraZeneca (Vaxzevria) and administered 1,280,216 (as of 29 April). But the Daily Mail wrote an article which most readers understood said that the Netherlands have received 11 m doses and adminstered just 1.5 m due to constraints and : Most of Holland's 11million doses of AstraZeneca Covid vaccine will go UNUSED after government restricted its use on under-60s despite soaring cases ... While the Netherlands has ordered 11 million doses of the jab, which is only being given to people between the ages of 60 and 64, only 1.5 million doses have been handed out so far to the population of around 17 million. [10] (Obiously, the 11 m is the total order, the Dutch share from the overall 300 m doses, of which only 1.4 m have arrived so far. "Handed out" means handed out by AstraZeneca to Netherlands/the EU, but most people would understand that this means the Netherlands have handed out only 1.5 m out of 11m they ordered) The only country I can see that really seems to have an issue with the AstraZeneca vaccine is Greece. Perhaps they are more picky than others. Most European "stockpiles" are Moderna doses (kept for second shots). Rominator ( talk) 07:15, 30 April 2021 (UTC)
I just came across this report in the Guardian in April 2021, (when looking for something else), indicating AZD1222 shipments from UK to Austrailia. I am minded these may be true, or it may have been the wrong end of the stick with the UK's role in creating the vaccine being misreported by the Sydney Herald that it was the UK that manufactured these dose batches [11]. Noting this here anyway. Djm-mobile ( talk) 12:45, 12 July 2021 (UTC) (Djm-leighpark)