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I've tagged this article for a move to Wiktionary. This is not an article about Euro-Canadians, just a definition of the word. The references appear to be examples of its use, constituting original research in primary sources, and not secondary sources about Euro-Canadians. — Michael Z. 2008-11-05 21:36 z
I find this term extremely POV and historically inaccurate, and is misrepresented as if it were a term in wide use, wehn it's nothing of hte kind and many members of teh group targeted by it 0 it's a pastiche of teh similarly-POV "Euro-American" - do not like it, or do not know of it. It is not an official term in any way, though its use is being promoted/substituted by ideologically-driven agendas in which "all white people are the same" and which remove any notion of the true diversity of Canada's "white" population. As a Canadian of Norwegian descent (and the grandson of a director of Scandinavian immigration) I find the term offensive and unsuitable and concocted by those from othe gropus seeking to generalize and stereotype. That many of these happen to be political and ethnic activists and "politically fashionable academics" only makes my point that their use and promotion of this term is POV all the more pertinent. It is not a useful term, not a iwdespread one, and it should not be uwed in Wikipedia as a standard, i.e. in teh way it was just subbed into the leads of Canadians of German descent and Canadians of Norwegian descent and no doubt others. I find its use in this mannaer, especially when European Canadian is also in circualation (though similarly used in historically useless and politically-suspect ways). This article should be reworded to say that "this is a term for the subgroup...." NOT "this is a subgeroup. As a member of that subgroup, I dispute that that is the case and those who wish to classify me and mine according to their own racist paradigms should be content with teh langauge as it is, not as they would like to see it re-invented to suit their own biases and perceptions (see Newspeak). "Selling" the term by such misleading citations as the following is another demonstration of the suepct nature of this agenda:
Statistics Canada makes no such definition of "Euro-Canadian". Not on any census table or census form I've ever seen. I have seen it in a lot of ideologically-driven and politically self-conscious academic and ethnic politics writign, though. It's POV and that's all there is to it. I suspect an inspection of the other citations will not turn up actual usage of this term except in POV-type documents of one kidn or another; native-politics nte4spapers, sociological tracts and the like; it's not in common circulation, I repeat, and is either unknown to or rejected by those it is designed to apply to. There's already other words for "us"...the lengths people will go not to say "white" huh? Still just racism, only in the other direction...... Skookum1 ( talk) 06:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per request. - GTBacchus( talk) 08:19, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Euro-Canadian →
European Canadian —
If European Canadians constitute 80 percent of Canada's population, shouldn't the number be less than 31 million? 1. We aren't "European" Canadians. That mistake has been popularized since the late 1960s. We are British North Americans, see my note below. 2. We are far fewer than 80% at this point, and have been targeted by the UN for "replacement immigration", which has to be stopped.
not geographically, and not ethnically.
they are Caucasians racially, but that's not the same thing as being an ethnic European.
remove them please
--
Savakk (
talk)
01:18, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Turkey is partially in Europe because the Ottoman Empire invaded and occupied Greece..
Turks come from Central Asia, not Europe, what do you not get about that?
they are Muslims, not Christians, they speak a Turkic language.
Turks are not European, not European ethnically, culturally or religiously.
and who considers Armenia to be culturally European, you ?
they are surely similar in culture to parts of Russia and the Caucasus, but Russia is not usually called culturally European.
the council of Europe is an international organization with Turkic members like Turkey and Azerbaijan, it has nothing to do with a representation of a nation's ethnicity and culture.
now at this point, I am going to assume you must be either Armenian or Turkish yourself.
-- Savakk ( talk) 21:41, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
The dubous template was added by me. The original source [1] listed ethnical "Canadian" (numbering 10,563,805 as shown) apart from the "European" one, the former containing part of those from European ancestry for sure. For accuracy of Wikipedia statement, we cannot directly treat those "Canadians" simply as non-European ancestry. Other source needed in justifying the true number. 霎起林野间 ( talk) 15:02, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
References
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghan Canadian which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 22:15, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
We have the 2013 report on the 2011 census sourced, but editors are changing the numbers and claiming that the numbers are as of 2015. As far as I can see, the 2011 census http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=PR&Code1=01&Data=Count&SearchText=Canada&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&A1=All&B1=All&Custom=&TABID=1 reports a total population of 32,852,325, of whom 20,157,965 are of European origins. That's 61.4%. In the last 3 months alone we've had claims of 74.9%, 76.6%, 73.0%, 76.7%, and 82.6% European origins, and the article claims the total number of Canadians of European origin as 25,186,890 apparently by subtracting the North American Aboriginal origins group from the total non visible minority population. Why are we not using the Statistics Canada classification "European origins" with its listed count of 20,157,965? Meters ( talk) 23:31, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of European Canadian's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "anthem-fr":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 19:49, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
The British peoples are not "European", are off the continent, and never considered themselves as being European. The word "European" seems to have been taken up since the mid to late 1960s in Canada as a "politically correct" way of saying "white". It has been used by historians in a general sense to refer to i.e., the "white men" who first encountered the Indians in North America. However, when it comes to (a) actual demographics of those who colonized North America, the word "British" in the name of "British North America" is a big hint that they were "British" and not European peoples.
Moreover, the character of the demographic changes over a long period of time. The British having colonized North America, and having been "long on the continent", eventually become a new race whose transplanted root culture is now enhanced with new practices. They are no longer "British", but in fact "native" to North America, so that it is realistic, indeed factual, to call them what they called themselves, i.e., "British North Americans".
That title was retained in Canada when the constitution of 1867 was enacted as the British North America Act, not the i.e., "European North America Act", because Canada is a British-North American nation, not a European nation. Our cultures are British-based and French Canadian, not European.
The legal identity of the founding peoples of Canada, i.e., its "constituent peoples" is therefore of key importance. They are "British North Americans" who joined in a limited federal union in each of whose provinces a different British North American majority (ethnic variant) obtained a permanent legislature for its own self-government. If this critical fact of identity is missed, being subsumed under the word "European", then, as some have had the misfortune to do since the late 1960s, Canada is misidentified as a nation founded by "white" people (i.e., "European", the euphemism) for all "white" people, who are deemed to be a single unit with a single culture, i.e., "European". This is not the case, it is a fiction based on a misunderstanding or lack of understanding of the constitutional history of the country.
Canada was founded by a limited number of ethnic majorities, all British North American (English-Irish_Scottish-French) who had been "long on the continent") and were native to it.
As prize-winning historian J.M.S. Careless has observed in his CANADA A Story of Challenge, the French Canadians in North America are "a new race born" here. They are not French as in Europe, although there roots which go far back are in that geographic location.
Thus, in 1867, all the constituent peoples of Canada were "British North American" under the Crown and Flag of Britain, whether English or French speaking, because these founders had been "long on the continent". Canada was not founded by "Europeans" or by "immigrants", for example, as can be confirmed as well in the 1865 Debates on Confederation, see the speeches of Thomas D'Arcy-McGee. Canada was founded by British North Americans who were already ethnically and culturally NATIVE TO North America, and not to elsewhere.
I would therefore like to see this cleared up; with its being acknowledged that the word "European" is often used as a handy euphemism for "white", and may not technically or legally be correct when referring to specific groups of peoples. In mistaking the founders of Canada as "Europeans", their legal identity is lost, and leads to confusion in particular amongst young descendants of the old-stock founding peoples of Canada as to who they really are, and who their ancestors were: British North Americans, some of whom were the "new race" of French Canadians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.225.129.246 ( talk) 01:03, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 09:25, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
European Canadian → European Canadians – WP:PRECISE correct spelling Alexander Iskandar ( talk) 06:20, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
this page and specifically its table have been frequently vandalized by a user with dynamic polish IPs, which after geolocation appear to be VPNs. the user seems to be only doing this for the sake of trolling on 4chan's /pol/ board and stirring international and racial tensions, which is rather sad imo. the page should be protected from vandalism for a period of time until the vandal finds a hobby or employment of some sort and finds something else to do.
archive — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.104.121.133 ( talk • contribs) 19:31, August 19, 2018 (UTC)
Hi, @ Meters and Vaselineeeeeeee: I've just come off a lengthy OR discussion from the "European emigration" page, where different editors have been extrapolating numbers from articles and censuses. That's led me to take a look at the numbers on this page. I think there is a similar issue here, with the population figures for Canadians of European background, from 1996 onwards. I'm having trouble verifying the numbers in that table, and am particularly concerned with the note that says anyone who isn't First Nation or visible minority is added to the category of European descent. I don't think that's an appropriate use of the census data, because it is making an assumption that is not stated in the source being cited. Strikes me as a failure of OR/Synthesis and Verifiability. I think the article should just use the numbers for European descent stated in the Stats Can tables, without any attempt to add to those numbers. Would welcome your thoughts on it before I make any changes. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz ( talk) 17:22, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Who allowed such nonsense to be on this page? Not only is it clearly some fringe opinion, the European Union and Council of Europe literally exist and are recognized by the UN. There is legitimate internationally legal recognition of European identity. This entry alone implies almost half of the UK that voted against Brexit and for European identity are racist. In the 21st century hundreds of millions worldwide identify as European and this smears them all. Put a stop to this nonsense immediately! — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikkyAcct ( talk • contribs) 06:23, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
You are comparing bananas and pineapples here. The European Union and Council of Europe are organisations that base their focus on geography, not race or ethnicity or even place of birth. Their European identity refers to someone who is a citizen of an EU member country, and includes a lot of people of Asian and African descent. In Canada, and throughout this article, European Canadian is a reference to White Canadians, and excludes a lot of people who would be considered European in the EU. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.154.49.102 ( talk) 16:25, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Essentially, this article is trying to create a category of Canadians that does not exist, and is primarily white. There is plenty of evidence that Canadians of different ethnic backgrounds may still continue to identify with those specific backgrounds; however, other Canadians may not. What is clear is that no evidence is advanced in the article that there are Canadians who identify primarily as European-Canadians.
The article states: "...a Canadian identity, without eradicating specific regional or cultural identities such as Aboriginal or Québecois." That terminology assumes that there is a dominant Canadian culture that tolerates lesser cultures, which are not part of "Canadian culture". That's wrong. Québecois culture is Canadian culture. Aboriginal culture is Canadian culture. "Canadian culture" doesn't just mean Anglo-Canadian culture, as this wording suggests. They all add up to Canadian culture. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz ( talk) 21:13, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
I have tagged two tables in the "Demographics" section with the "Original Research" marker. The reason is that the tables appear to be combining data from two different Stats Can sources, or simply making an assumption about how to interpret the data and giving numbers which are not directly stated by the cited Stats Can Reports. Either way, it's a breach of Wikipedia:No original research: "Synthesis of published material", as well as the basic principle of Wikipedia:Verifiability.
The basic number for the European Canadian population has been flipping back and forth over the past few days. There have been three numbers used at the top of the infobox: 25,111,695 (prior to November 13); 19,683,320 (number which I inserted on November 13); and 28,800,000 (number inserted on November 14 by an IP editor). The difficulty is that the first and third numbers are not backed up by the Stats Can census summary of 2016, which is cited in the lead of the article.
In short, in my opinion, the number of 19,683,320 should be used throughout this article as the basic number for European Canadian population (subject to being updated when the results of the 2021 census come out, of course). If someone wants to use a different number, they should be prepared to come here to the Talk page and explain their rationale for a different number. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz ( talk) 14:33, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
Putting this proposal up partly because I created the map which showcased the percentages of those who are (the percentage is not formally published by Statistics Canada but 'White' is still a census option and can be inferred) White on Canada's census (with partial ignorance and mis-remembrance of Canada's weird racial definition's including the word European on it) and to settle the most recent revert dispute.
The reason as to why I am proposing a spilt of the article is for 2 reasons; while Statistics Canada essentially mean European people's when they mean 'White', the White census option also allows Arabs, West Asians and Latin Americans, who are racial groups by the visible minority standards of themselves, to declare themselves as 'White' in the mark-in box and then their racial origin as 'Arab' etc. in the write-in box (or vice versa), hence a difference between 'White' Canadians and 'European Canadians'. From Statistics Canada's website ( 1, 2, 3);
This definition has been used for a while from at-least 2015 (if not longer I have not checked) to my knowledge and should be accurately represented in two different articles.
Second reason being is to treat Canada's topic's of racial groups and pan-ethnic groups the same way America's articles are, with currently one article on European Americans (those who declare a European origin ethnic group on the ethnicity question) and a Non-Hispanic White American article (and the White American article as well) for the racial group in which the vast majority of European Americans fall under. This way we can avoid confusion and edit conflict's etc. which have been in this article for a while and the European Canadian article here can then link off to White Canadians page for those who want to view the racial group page.
@ Loopy30 hope you do not mind me tagging you here. Tweedle ( talk) 10:20, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
Respondents who checked 'Black' and wrote-in 'French' or 'Malaysian' are also included in the 'Black' count.
For example, respondents who checked both “South Asian” and “White” are included in the “South Asian” category. In addition, respondents who checked “South Asian” and had a write-in response such as “Swedish” would also be included in the “South Asian” category.
Either way, my postion is that the map that Tweedle made should be on a page. either on a 'White Canadians' or 'European Canadians page. La lopi ( talk) 00:19, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
Now we see the problem with using solely the Stats Canada reported value for "European Canadians". Anyone with some sense can see that this number is very underreported. Vaselineeeeeeee ★★★ 19:02, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
The recent changes made to the article to incorporate figures originally collected by SatCan for a different category (White) instead of the actual official data provided for self-reported ethnic origins (European) are contradictory to the results of the discussions over the previous two years (above). The use of this article as a proxy for one defined as a racial category instead uses a fundamentally incorrect flaw in categorization that cannot be coherently sourced. Using such self-produced "alternate facts" would strongly violate WP:OR, and also WP:V. Further, despite our desire to use the StatCan figures in a consistent manner for a Wikipedia article, the 2021 figures are explicitly stated as not comparable to those of previous years due to changes in the census questionnaire format. Additionally, there are problems with using the reported language percentages, since they include Portuguese-speaking immigrants from Brazil and southern Africa, French-speakers from the Caribbean and West Africa, and Spanish-speakers from South and Central America, Mexico and the Philippines, and are not directly correlated with persons reporting a European origin. Loopy30 ( talk)
I've cleaned up a lot of the referencing issues due to recent changes in this article. Loopy30, you made [this change https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=European_Canadians&type=revision&diff=1118731651&oldid=1118720178&diffmode=source] which deleted a lot of material, and also caused six or eight undefined reference errors, leaving key parts of the article unreferenced. Do you have a plan for addressing these problems? Maybe the unreferenced material is also meant to be deleted, since you said it was OR in your edit summary? -- Mikeblas ( talk) 16:15, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
Talk at Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board#Mass charts being added all over Moxy- 14:48, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
Why is there an obsession with referencing Ted Cruz as a member of the “European Canadian Diaspora”? 2601:703:200:DD40:9E9:545A:F032:DD72 ( talk) 15:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
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I've tagged this article for a move to Wiktionary. This is not an article about Euro-Canadians, just a definition of the word. The references appear to be examples of its use, constituting original research in primary sources, and not secondary sources about Euro-Canadians. — Michael Z. 2008-11-05 21:36 z
I find this term extremely POV and historically inaccurate, and is misrepresented as if it were a term in wide use, wehn it's nothing of hte kind and many members of teh group targeted by it 0 it's a pastiche of teh similarly-POV "Euro-American" - do not like it, or do not know of it. It is not an official term in any way, though its use is being promoted/substituted by ideologically-driven agendas in which "all white people are the same" and which remove any notion of the true diversity of Canada's "white" population. As a Canadian of Norwegian descent (and the grandson of a director of Scandinavian immigration) I find the term offensive and unsuitable and concocted by those from othe gropus seeking to generalize and stereotype. That many of these happen to be political and ethnic activists and "politically fashionable academics" only makes my point that their use and promotion of this term is POV all the more pertinent. It is not a useful term, not a iwdespread one, and it should not be uwed in Wikipedia as a standard, i.e. in teh way it was just subbed into the leads of Canadians of German descent and Canadians of Norwegian descent and no doubt others. I find its use in this mannaer, especially when European Canadian is also in circualation (though similarly used in historically useless and politically-suspect ways). This article should be reworded to say that "this is a term for the subgroup...." NOT "this is a subgeroup. As a member of that subgroup, I dispute that that is the case and those who wish to classify me and mine according to their own racist paradigms should be content with teh langauge as it is, not as they would like to see it re-invented to suit their own biases and perceptions (see Newspeak). "Selling" the term by such misleading citations as the following is another demonstration of the suepct nature of this agenda:
Statistics Canada makes no such definition of "Euro-Canadian". Not on any census table or census form I've ever seen. I have seen it in a lot of ideologically-driven and politically self-conscious academic and ethnic politics writign, though. It's POV and that's all there is to it. I suspect an inspection of the other citations will not turn up actual usage of this term except in POV-type documents of one kidn or another; native-politics nte4spapers, sociological tracts and the like; it's not in common circulation, I repeat, and is either unknown to or rejected by those it is designed to apply to. There's already other words for "us"...the lengths people will go not to say "white" huh? Still just racism, only in the other direction...... Skookum1 ( talk) 06:47, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per request. - GTBacchus( talk) 08:19, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Euro-Canadian →
European Canadian —
If European Canadians constitute 80 percent of Canada's population, shouldn't the number be less than 31 million? 1. We aren't "European" Canadians. That mistake has been popularized since the late 1960s. We are British North Americans, see my note below. 2. We are far fewer than 80% at this point, and have been targeted by the UN for "replacement immigration", which has to be stopped.
not geographically, and not ethnically.
they are Caucasians racially, but that's not the same thing as being an ethnic European.
remove them please
--
Savakk (
talk)
01:18, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
Turkey is partially in Europe because the Ottoman Empire invaded and occupied Greece..
Turks come from Central Asia, not Europe, what do you not get about that?
they are Muslims, not Christians, they speak a Turkic language.
Turks are not European, not European ethnically, culturally or religiously.
and who considers Armenia to be culturally European, you ?
they are surely similar in culture to parts of Russia and the Caucasus, but Russia is not usually called culturally European.
the council of Europe is an international organization with Turkic members like Turkey and Azerbaijan, it has nothing to do with a representation of a nation's ethnicity and culture.
now at this point, I am going to assume you must be either Armenian or Turkish yourself.
-- Savakk ( talk) 21:41, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
The dubous template was added by me. The original source [1] listed ethnical "Canadian" (numbering 10,563,805 as shown) apart from the "European" one, the former containing part of those from European ancestry for sure. For accuracy of Wikipedia statement, we cannot directly treat those "Canadians" simply as non-European ancestry. Other source needed in justifying the true number. 霎起林野间 ( talk) 15:02, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
References
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Afghan Canadian which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 22:15, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
We have the 2013 report on the 2011 census sourced, but editors are changing the numbers and claiming that the numbers are as of 2015. As far as I can see, the 2011 census http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2011/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?Lang=E&Geo1=PR&Code1=01&Data=Count&SearchText=Canada&SearchType=Begins&SearchPR=01&A1=All&B1=All&Custom=&TABID=1 reports a total population of 32,852,325, of whom 20,157,965 are of European origins. That's 61.4%. In the last 3 months alone we've had claims of 74.9%, 76.6%, 73.0%, 76.7%, and 82.6% European origins, and the article claims the total number of Canadians of European origin as 25,186,890 apparently by subtracting the North American Aboriginal origins group from the total non visible minority population. Why are we not using the Statistics Canada classification "European origins" with its listed count of 20,157,965? Meters ( talk) 23:31, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of European Canadian's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "anthem-fr":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 19:49, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
The British peoples are not "European", are off the continent, and never considered themselves as being European. The word "European" seems to have been taken up since the mid to late 1960s in Canada as a "politically correct" way of saying "white". It has been used by historians in a general sense to refer to i.e., the "white men" who first encountered the Indians in North America. However, when it comes to (a) actual demographics of those who colonized North America, the word "British" in the name of "British North America" is a big hint that they were "British" and not European peoples.
Moreover, the character of the demographic changes over a long period of time. The British having colonized North America, and having been "long on the continent", eventually become a new race whose transplanted root culture is now enhanced with new practices. They are no longer "British", but in fact "native" to North America, so that it is realistic, indeed factual, to call them what they called themselves, i.e., "British North Americans".
That title was retained in Canada when the constitution of 1867 was enacted as the British North America Act, not the i.e., "European North America Act", because Canada is a British-North American nation, not a European nation. Our cultures are British-based and French Canadian, not European.
The legal identity of the founding peoples of Canada, i.e., its "constituent peoples" is therefore of key importance. They are "British North Americans" who joined in a limited federal union in each of whose provinces a different British North American majority (ethnic variant) obtained a permanent legislature for its own self-government. If this critical fact of identity is missed, being subsumed under the word "European", then, as some have had the misfortune to do since the late 1960s, Canada is misidentified as a nation founded by "white" people (i.e., "European", the euphemism) for all "white" people, who are deemed to be a single unit with a single culture, i.e., "European". This is not the case, it is a fiction based on a misunderstanding or lack of understanding of the constitutional history of the country.
Canada was founded by a limited number of ethnic majorities, all British North American (English-Irish_Scottish-French) who had been "long on the continent") and were native to it.
As prize-winning historian J.M.S. Careless has observed in his CANADA A Story of Challenge, the French Canadians in North America are "a new race born" here. They are not French as in Europe, although there roots which go far back are in that geographic location.
Thus, in 1867, all the constituent peoples of Canada were "British North American" under the Crown and Flag of Britain, whether English or French speaking, because these founders had been "long on the continent". Canada was not founded by "Europeans" or by "immigrants", for example, as can be confirmed as well in the 1865 Debates on Confederation, see the speeches of Thomas D'Arcy-McGee. Canada was founded by British North Americans who were already ethnically and culturally NATIVE TO North America, and not to elsewhere.
I would therefore like to see this cleared up; with its being acknowledged that the word "European" is often used as a handy euphemism for "white", and may not technically or legally be correct when referring to specific groups of peoples. In mistaking the founders of Canada as "Europeans", their legal identity is lost, and leads to confusion in particular amongst young descendants of the old-stock founding peoples of Canada as to who they really are, and who their ancestors were: British North Americans, some of whom were the "new race" of French Canadians. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.225.129.246 ( talk) 01:03, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved — Martin ( MSGJ · talk) 09:25, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
European Canadian → European Canadians – WP:PRECISE correct spelling Alexander Iskandar ( talk) 06:20, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
this page and specifically its table have been frequently vandalized by a user with dynamic polish IPs, which after geolocation appear to be VPNs. the user seems to be only doing this for the sake of trolling on 4chan's /pol/ board and stirring international and racial tensions, which is rather sad imo. the page should be protected from vandalism for a period of time until the vandal finds a hobby or employment of some sort and finds something else to do.
archive — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.104.121.133 ( talk • contribs) 19:31, August 19, 2018 (UTC)
Hi, @ Meters and Vaselineeeeeeee: I've just come off a lengthy OR discussion from the "European emigration" page, where different editors have been extrapolating numbers from articles and censuses. That's led me to take a look at the numbers on this page. I think there is a similar issue here, with the population figures for Canadians of European background, from 1996 onwards. I'm having trouble verifying the numbers in that table, and am particularly concerned with the note that says anyone who isn't First Nation or visible minority is added to the category of European descent. I don't think that's an appropriate use of the census data, because it is making an assumption that is not stated in the source being cited. Strikes me as a failure of OR/Synthesis and Verifiability. I think the article should just use the numbers for European descent stated in the Stats Can tables, without any attempt to add to those numbers. Would welcome your thoughts on it before I make any changes. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz ( talk) 17:22, 19 September 2021 (UTC)
Who allowed such nonsense to be on this page? Not only is it clearly some fringe opinion, the European Union and Council of Europe literally exist and are recognized by the UN. There is legitimate internationally legal recognition of European identity. This entry alone implies almost half of the UK that voted against Brexit and for European identity are racist. In the 21st century hundreds of millions worldwide identify as European and this smears them all. Put a stop to this nonsense immediately! — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikkyAcct ( talk • contribs) 06:23, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
You are comparing bananas and pineapples here. The European Union and Council of Europe are organisations that base their focus on geography, not race or ethnicity or even place of birth. Their European identity refers to someone who is a citizen of an EU member country, and includes a lot of people of Asian and African descent. In Canada, and throughout this article, European Canadian is a reference to White Canadians, and excludes a lot of people who would be considered European in the EU. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.154.49.102 ( talk) 16:25, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
Essentially, this article is trying to create a category of Canadians that does not exist, and is primarily white. There is plenty of evidence that Canadians of different ethnic backgrounds may still continue to identify with those specific backgrounds; however, other Canadians may not. What is clear is that no evidence is advanced in the article that there are Canadians who identify primarily as European-Canadians.
The article states: "...a Canadian identity, without eradicating specific regional or cultural identities such as Aboriginal or Québecois." That terminology assumes that there is a dominant Canadian culture that tolerates lesser cultures, which are not part of "Canadian culture". That's wrong. Québecois culture is Canadian culture. Aboriginal culture is Canadian culture. "Canadian culture" doesn't just mean Anglo-Canadian culture, as this wording suggests. They all add up to Canadian culture. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz ( talk) 21:13, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
I have tagged two tables in the "Demographics" section with the "Original Research" marker. The reason is that the tables appear to be combining data from two different Stats Can sources, or simply making an assumption about how to interpret the data and giving numbers which are not directly stated by the cited Stats Can Reports. Either way, it's a breach of Wikipedia:No original research: "Synthesis of published material", as well as the basic principle of Wikipedia:Verifiability.
The basic number for the European Canadian population has been flipping back and forth over the past few days. There have been three numbers used at the top of the infobox: 25,111,695 (prior to November 13); 19,683,320 (number which I inserted on November 13); and 28,800,000 (number inserted on November 14 by an IP editor). The difficulty is that the first and third numbers are not backed up by the Stats Can census summary of 2016, which is cited in the lead of the article.
In short, in my opinion, the number of 19,683,320 should be used throughout this article as the basic number for European Canadian population (subject to being updated when the results of the 2021 census come out, of course). If someone wants to use a different number, they should be prepared to come here to the Talk page and explain their rationale for a different number. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz ( talk) 14:33, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
Putting this proposal up partly because I created the map which showcased the percentages of those who are (the percentage is not formally published by Statistics Canada but 'White' is still a census option and can be inferred) White on Canada's census (with partial ignorance and mis-remembrance of Canada's weird racial definition's including the word European on it) and to settle the most recent revert dispute.
The reason as to why I am proposing a spilt of the article is for 2 reasons; while Statistics Canada essentially mean European people's when they mean 'White', the White census option also allows Arabs, West Asians and Latin Americans, who are racial groups by the visible minority standards of themselves, to declare themselves as 'White' in the mark-in box and then their racial origin as 'Arab' etc. in the write-in box (or vice versa), hence a difference between 'White' Canadians and 'European Canadians'. From Statistics Canada's website ( 1, 2, 3);
This definition has been used for a while from at-least 2015 (if not longer I have not checked) to my knowledge and should be accurately represented in two different articles.
Second reason being is to treat Canada's topic's of racial groups and pan-ethnic groups the same way America's articles are, with currently one article on European Americans (those who declare a European origin ethnic group on the ethnicity question) and a Non-Hispanic White American article (and the White American article as well) for the racial group in which the vast majority of European Americans fall under. This way we can avoid confusion and edit conflict's etc. which have been in this article for a while and the European Canadian article here can then link off to White Canadians page for those who want to view the racial group page.
@ Loopy30 hope you do not mind me tagging you here. Tweedle ( talk) 10:20, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
Respondents who checked 'Black' and wrote-in 'French' or 'Malaysian' are also included in the 'Black' count.
For example, respondents who checked both “South Asian” and “White” are included in the “South Asian” category. In addition, respondents who checked “South Asian” and had a write-in response such as “Swedish” would also be included in the “South Asian” category.
Either way, my postion is that the map that Tweedle made should be on a page. either on a 'White Canadians' or 'European Canadians page. La lopi ( talk) 00:19, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
Now we see the problem with using solely the Stats Canada reported value for "European Canadians". Anyone with some sense can see that this number is very underreported. Vaselineeeeeeee ★★★ 19:02, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
The recent changes made to the article to incorporate figures originally collected by SatCan for a different category (White) instead of the actual official data provided for self-reported ethnic origins (European) are contradictory to the results of the discussions over the previous two years (above). The use of this article as a proxy for one defined as a racial category instead uses a fundamentally incorrect flaw in categorization that cannot be coherently sourced. Using such self-produced "alternate facts" would strongly violate WP:OR, and also WP:V. Further, despite our desire to use the StatCan figures in a consistent manner for a Wikipedia article, the 2021 figures are explicitly stated as not comparable to those of previous years due to changes in the census questionnaire format. Additionally, there are problems with using the reported language percentages, since they include Portuguese-speaking immigrants from Brazil and southern Africa, French-speakers from the Caribbean and West Africa, and Spanish-speakers from South and Central America, Mexico and the Philippines, and are not directly correlated with persons reporting a European origin. Loopy30 ( talk)
I've cleaned up a lot of the referencing issues due to recent changes in this article. Loopy30, you made [this change https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=European_Canadians&type=revision&diff=1118731651&oldid=1118720178&diffmode=source] which deleted a lot of material, and also caused six or eight undefined reference errors, leaving key parts of the article unreferenced. Do you have a plan for addressing these problems? Maybe the unreferenced material is also meant to be deleted, since you said it was OR in your edit summary? -- Mikeblas ( talk) 16:15, 28 October 2022 (UTC)
Talk at Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board#Mass charts being added all over Moxy- 14:48, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
Why is there an obsession with referencing Ted Cruz as a member of the “European Canadian Diaspora”? 2601:703:200:DD40:9E9:545A:F032:DD72 ( talk) 15:08, 29 April 2023 (UTC)