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I propose we merge Introduction of the euro, Enlargement of the eurozone and Eurozone into History of the euro. The term "Eurozone" doesn't have any official status and it's meaning could be explained in a single article on the euro's history.
At least we need to clarify which article should contain "the big table/list" of eurozone enlargement. Today Eurozone and Enlargement of the eurozone have something similar. If consensus is not to merge, we should make some lucid and coherent table templates. Perhaps the Eurozone should have its own article, but Introduction of the euro, Enlargement of the eurozone should definitely be merged into a single list/table which supplements a potential euro history article. (An article with lots of text shouldn't have a monster table in addition)- . . 18:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Unless all polls are fresh or pan-european, it's selective POV cherry picking. If we can't provide that, I think we should delete the whole section. - . . 18:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
There are a lot of articles related to the euro currency now. It is hard to watch and change similar updates for all of them. Also much text information and images are being repeated in different articles or are quite the same. What is your opinion of trying to merge articles
in one large article. Just this process needs to be done very accurately. So can be created clear situation in this field and we can modify some formatting as well.
Or another way is to create two articles:
Please write your opinion. Thanks.-- Dima1 15:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The euro currently exchanges at 0.72547 GB pounds per euro. This is an all-time high. If trading closes at or above this amount, it will be a record. 86.149.12.93 ( talk) 15:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I've started an edit plan at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics#Cypriot pound and Maltese lira. Images (maps) are yet to be compiled. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 12:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Why is the Slovenia name for Euro in the infobox? Might be used a but but officially it is still euro over there.- J Logan t: 14:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I find it odd that the Euro's share of global reserves is constantly juxtaposed against that of the dollar, specifically by claiming not that the Euro in 2007 reached its highest level of global reserves but that the dollar reached its lowest level since records began in 1999. In fact, the dollar's share of reserves has been lower and records have been kept for far longer than this, and the dollar's share of reserves is not a perfect opposition of the Euro. I find it disturbing that the Wiki entries for both the dollar and the euro seem to be tainted by the same sort of Europhilia so prevalent in lay media. Sandreckoner ( talk) 08:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
> (Undid revision 181268827 by Stefan2 (talk) not an EU official language) (undo)
And so what? If you want to include all official EU languages, then you'd have to add Bulgarian and lots of other languages too. Turkish is an official language of an Eurozone country. ( Stefan2 ( talk) 21:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC))
Let me start by saying EU official languages are not relevant because the native language parameter in the infobox encompasses “all official languages of the official users” (see the established guidelines at Template:Infobox Currency). Therefore, this encompasses Greek, Maltese, Slovenian, and Turkish as they are official languages of countries that are “official users” of the euro. Latvian and Bulgarian are not included because Latvia and Bulgaria do not use the euro. Serbian is not included, even tough Kosovo uses the euro, because Kosovo is not an “official users”. – Zntrip 00:56, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Collapsible is fine. It has been a standard practice in many different types of infoboxes. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 15:03, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
"United States dollar" has its name in Spanish, Portuguese, and Tetum until 2007-11-08. I've been unable to monitor currency articles since summer 2007. Unlike the euro, the USD doesn't utilized the unofficial_users parameter. So all users are under using_countries. So under the current formula, USD in Spanish, Portuguese, Tetum, as well as Marshallese should be listed. If someone manages to do some research and determine which of the 9 other users are "unofficial", then I have no problem with the removal of these languages. But do you know if Marshall Islands is an official user? Did it ever have any bilateral agreement with the U.S.? Or is it unilateral? Repeat the same question 8 more times. The lack of "unofficial users" is just a result of lack of research.
The infobox of United Kingdom says "Official languages: English (de facto), Recognised regional languages: Welsh, Irish ...". Regional (sub-national) ("national" in the sense of sovereign state/country) are not included in the infobox. So pound sterling does not violate the current formula.
I will add in my 2c in the next section. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 09:40, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm glad to see that you start discussing a generalized idea, rather than euro/EU/ECB. There is one thing you misunderstand about the standing rule. "All official languages" refer to languages at the national level. List of official languages in Russia states in the first sentence: "Although Russian is the only federally official language of the Russian Federation...". The current formula also says "It is better missing than to guess. It is ok to be missing.". So the example of the Russian ruble, or the lack of a certain language is not in violation with the current formula. Anyway, you will still speak against the current rule.
Zntrip, are you ok with changing the rule to "All languages of the issuing authority"? -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 20:16, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Before I sign on I have two questions: what would appear for the euro and what would appear on the Central African CFA franc page since Spanish and Portugese are official languages of Equatorial Guinea? – Zntrip 03:28, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
"Official languages of the issuing body", would that mean displaying a Bulgarian name on the euro page (since Bulgarian is an official language of the ECB)? Or would it only mean listing German (i.e. "Euro" with a capical "E"), since the ECB is located in Germany? ( 212.247.11.155 ( talk) 02:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC))
I think we're reaching an agreement here. What about
What is a "central bank language"? Many central banks provide websites in various languages. So should English be listed for SEK [1], DKK [2], JPY [3], CNY [4], KRW [5] and lots of other currencies? ( 212.247.11.155 ( talk) 21:51, 16 January 2008 (UTC))
Anyway, if you decide to list currencies only in the languages printed on the actual notes and coins, which languages would be listed for EUR? On euro notes I see that the name of the currency is written two languages: as " EURO" and as "ΕΥΡΩ". While the latter is obviously Greek, which language is the former? Is it German (spelling "Euro" with a capital "E")? Or is it French (spelling "euro" with a small "e")? ( Stefan2 ( talk) 17:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
This section is getting bogged down in detail again. How about we reduce it to something like: The formal titles of the currency are "euro" for the major unit and "cent" for the minor (one hundreth) unit. Again in formal usage, these names are invariant in the plural. Of course these styles are often in conflict with national language norms of spelling and grammar: it is the policy {fact}} of the EU that these national norms should continue in local informal usage. For the different national styles, see Linguistic issues concerning the euro.
Comments? -- Red King ( talk) 18:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Community law requires a single spelling of the word “euro” in the nominative singular case in all Community and national legislative provisions, taking into account the existence of different alphabets.
[...]
The recent Council Regulation (EC) No 2169/2005 of 21 December 2005 amending Regulation (EC) No 974/98 on the introduction of the euro confirms the correct spelling of the single currency. First, Regulation (EC) No 974/98 states in all language versions that “the name given to the European currency shall be the ‘euro’”. Second, all language versions of Regulation (EC) No 2169/2005 refer to the “euro”.
In 2003 all the Member States ratified the Decision of the Council, meeting in the composition of the Heads of State or Government of 21 March 2003 amending Article 10.2 of the Statute of the European System of Central Banks and of the European Central Bank, where, once more, this time in a legal act pertaining to primary law, the name of the single currency is spelled identically in all language versions.
This unambiguous and definitive position of the Member States is also binding on the Member States with a derogation. Article 5(3) of the Act concerning the conditions of accession stipulates that “the new Member States are in the same situation as the present Member States in respect of declarations or resolutions of, or other positions taken up by, the European Council or the Council and in respect of those concerning the Community or the Union adopted by common agreement of the Member States; they will accordingly observe the principles and guidelines deriving from those declarations, resolutions or other positions and will take such measures as may be necessary to ensure their implementation”.— Source: European Central Bank, CONVERGENCE REPORT MAY 2007 - [6]
20.7 The euro.
Like ‘pound’, ‘dollar’ or any other currency name in English, the word ‘euro’ is written in lower case with no initial capital.
The Interinstitutional Style Guide (section 7.3.1) states that the plurals of both ‘euro’ and ‘cent’ are to be written without ‘s’ in English. Do this when amending or referring to legal texts that themselves observe this rule. However, in all other texts, especially documents intended for the general public, use the natural plurals ‘euros’ and ‘cents’.
In documents and tables where monetary amounts figure largely, make maximum use of the € symbol (closed up to the figure) or the abbreviation EUR before the amount.
— Source: European Commission, Directorate General for Translation: English Style Guide [7]
To intrude, I'll complain that the name and linguistic issues contains proseline particularly w.r.t. Bulgaria. -- Vuo ( talk) 15:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Euro adoption *.* have been requested for deletion on Commons. Please participate at commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Euro adoption x. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 21:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The section Against other major currencies is proseline, a mishmash of news, speculation and factual statements. The problem is inherently aggravated by the topic, namely exchange rate, which is all numbers and figures. A better article should have a sound historical analysis where the effects of inherent weakening of the dollar and actual strenghtening of the euro are distinguished. -- Vuo ( talk) 17:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Another issue worth discussing about the Euro is its use as an "official" or "reporting" currency by multi-national organisations when it comes to accounts and reports prepared by the organisation itself or submitted to the organisation by its members. SimonMackay ( talk) 06:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Although I just changed the dates of four countries based on a recent analysts poll, I do wonder myself if this information is reliable, since it is still speculation. Shall we agree to take only dates for future joins from the official announcements made from the local banks? Miguel.mateo ( talk) 01:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Are there sources explaining why GBP on the graph of balances is almost in parallel with it constantly? Can it be just written that it's because 'european economy' is in close 'contact' with the british one? -- Leladax ( talk) 18:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Template:Euro has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 18:58, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Template:Euro-dollar has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 19:14, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Does this make sense?
:With more than €610 billion in circulation as of December 2006 (equivalent to US$802 billion at the exchange rates at the time), the euro is the currency with the lowest combined value of cash in circulation in the world, having fallen behind the U.S. dollar.[3]
Really? This seems back to front - reading the reference:
Has somethine got flipped at some point? Or is my understanding of macro-economic theory lacking. -- Neo ( talk) 19:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Euro_exchange_rate_to_USD%2C_JPY%2C_and_GBP.png -- Tubesship ( talk) 08:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
I propose we merge Introduction of the euro, Enlargement of the eurozone and Eurozone into History of the euro. The term "Eurozone" doesn't have any official status and it's meaning could be explained in a single article on the euro's history.
At least we need to clarify which article should contain "the big table/list" of eurozone enlargement. Today Eurozone and Enlargement of the eurozone have something similar. If consensus is not to merge, we should make some lucid and coherent table templates. Perhaps the Eurozone should have its own article, but Introduction of the euro, Enlargement of the eurozone should definitely be merged into a single list/table which supplements a potential euro history article. (An article with lots of text shouldn't have a monster table in addition)- . . 18:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Unless all polls are fresh or pan-european, it's selective POV cherry picking. If we can't provide that, I think we should delete the whole section. - . . 18:54, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
There are a lot of articles related to the euro currency now. It is hard to watch and change similar updates for all of them. Also much text information and images are being repeated in different articles or are quite the same. What is your opinion of trying to merge articles
in one large article. Just this process needs to be done very accurately. So can be created clear situation in this field and we can modify some formatting as well.
Or another way is to create two articles:
Please write your opinion. Thanks.-- Dima1 15:19, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
The euro currently exchanges at 0.72547 GB pounds per euro. This is an all-time high. If trading closes at or above this amount, it will be a record. 86.149.12.93 ( talk) 15:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I've started an edit plan at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Numismatics#Cypriot pound and Maltese lira. Images (maps) are yet to be compiled. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 12:08, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Why is the Slovenia name for Euro in the infobox? Might be used a but but officially it is still euro over there.- J Logan t: 14:39, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
I find it odd that the Euro's share of global reserves is constantly juxtaposed against that of the dollar, specifically by claiming not that the Euro in 2007 reached its highest level of global reserves but that the dollar reached its lowest level since records began in 1999. In fact, the dollar's share of reserves has been lower and records have been kept for far longer than this, and the dollar's share of reserves is not a perfect opposition of the Euro. I find it disturbing that the Wiki entries for both the dollar and the euro seem to be tainted by the same sort of Europhilia so prevalent in lay media. Sandreckoner ( talk) 08:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
> (Undid revision 181268827 by Stefan2 (talk) not an EU official language) (undo)
And so what? If you want to include all official EU languages, then you'd have to add Bulgarian and lots of other languages too. Turkish is an official language of an Eurozone country. ( Stefan2 ( talk) 21:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC))
Let me start by saying EU official languages are not relevant because the native language parameter in the infobox encompasses “all official languages of the official users” (see the established guidelines at Template:Infobox Currency). Therefore, this encompasses Greek, Maltese, Slovenian, and Turkish as they are official languages of countries that are “official users” of the euro. Latvian and Bulgarian are not included because Latvia and Bulgaria do not use the euro. Serbian is not included, even tough Kosovo uses the euro, because Kosovo is not an “official users”. – Zntrip 00:56, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Collapsible is fine. It has been a standard practice in many different types of infoboxes. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 15:03, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
"United States dollar" has its name in Spanish, Portuguese, and Tetum until 2007-11-08. I've been unable to monitor currency articles since summer 2007. Unlike the euro, the USD doesn't utilized the unofficial_users parameter. So all users are under using_countries. So under the current formula, USD in Spanish, Portuguese, Tetum, as well as Marshallese should be listed. If someone manages to do some research and determine which of the 9 other users are "unofficial", then I have no problem with the removal of these languages. But do you know if Marshall Islands is an official user? Did it ever have any bilateral agreement with the U.S.? Or is it unilateral? Repeat the same question 8 more times. The lack of "unofficial users" is just a result of lack of research.
The infobox of United Kingdom says "Official languages: English (de facto), Recognised regional languages: Welsh, Irish ...". Regional (sub-national) ("national" in the sense of sovereign state/country) are not included in the infobox. So pound sterling does not violate the current formula.
I will add in my 2c in the next section. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 09:40, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm glad to see that you start discussing a generalized idea, rather than euro/EU/ECB. There is one thing you misunderstand about the standing rule. "All official languages" refer to languages at the national level. List of official languages in Russia states in the first sentence: "Although Russian is the only federally official language of the Russian Federation...". The current formula also says "It is better missing than to guess. It is ok to be missing.". So the example of the Russian ruble, or the lack of a certain language is not in violation with the current formula. Anyway, you will still speak against the current rule.
Zntrip, are you ok with changing the rule to "All languages of the issuing authority"? -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 20:16, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Before I sign on I have two questions: what would appear for the euro and what would appear on the Central African CFA franc page since Spanish and Portugese are official languages of Equatorial Guinea? – Zntrip 03:28, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
"Official languages of the issuing body", would that mean displaying a Bulgarian name on the euro page (since Bulgarian is an official language of the ECB)? Or would it only mean listing German (i.e. "Euro" with a capical "E"), since the ECB is located in Germany? ( 212.247.11.155 ( talk) 02:31, 12 January 2008 (UTC))
I think we're reaching an agreement here. What about
What is a "central bank language"? Many central banks provide websites in various languages. So should English be listed for SEK [1], DKK [2], JPY [3], CNY [4], KRW [5] and lots of other currencies? ( 212.247.11.155 ( talk) 21:51, 16 January 2008 (UTC))
Anyway, if you decide to list currencies only in the languages printed on the actual notes and coins, which languages would be listed for EUR? On euro notes I see that the name of the currency is written two languages: as " EURO" and as "ΕΥΡΩ". While the latter is obviously Greek, which language is the former? Is it German (spelling "Euro" with a capital "E")? Or is it French (spelling "euro" with a small "e")? ( Stefan2 ( talk) 17:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC))
This section is getting bogged down in detail again. How about we reduce it to something like: The formal titles of the currency are "euro" for the major unit and "cent" for the minor (one hundreth) unit. Again in formal usage, these names are invariant in the plural. Of course these styles are often in conflict with national language norms of spelling and grammar: it is the policy {fact}} of the EU that these national norms should continue in local informal usage. For the different national styles, see Linguistic issues concerning the euro.
Comments? -- Red King ( talk) 18:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Community law requires a single spelling of the word “euro” in the nominative singular case in all Community and national legislative provisions, taking into account the existence of different alphabets.
[...]
The recent Council Regulation (EC) No 2169/2005 of 21 December 2005 amending Regulation (EC) No 974/98 on the introduction of the euro confirms the correct spelling of the single currency. First, Regulation (EC) No 974/98 states in all language versions that “the name given to the European currency shall be the ‘euro’”. Second, all language versions of Regulation (EC) No 2169/2005 refer to the “euro”.
In 2003 all the Member States ratified the Decision of the Council, meeting in the composition of the Heads of State or Government of 21 March 2003 amending Article 10.2 of the Statute of the European System of Central Banks and of the European Central Bank, where, once more, this time in a legal act pertaining to primary law, the name of the single currency is spelled identically in all language versions.
This unambiguous and definitive position of the Member States is also binding on the Member States with a derogation. Article 5(3) of the Act concerning the conditions of accession stipulates that “the new Member States are in the same situation as the present Member States in respect of declarations or resolutions of, or other positions taken up by, the European Council or the Council and in respect of those concerning the Community or the Union adopted by common agreement of the Member States; they will accordingly observe the principles and guidelines deriving from those declarations, resolutions or other positions and will take such measures as may be necessary to ensure their implementation”.— Source: European Central Bank, CONVERGENCE REPORT MAY 2007 - [6]
20.7 The euro.
Like ‘pound’, ‘dollar’ or any other currency name in English, the word ‘euro’ is written in lower case with no initial capital.
The Interinstitutional Style Guide (section 7.3.1) states that the plurals of both ‘euro’ and ‘cent’ are to be written without ‘s’ in English. Do this when amending or referring to legal texts that themselves observe this rule. However, in all other texts, especially documents intended for the general public, use the natural plurals ‘euros’ and ‘cents’.
In documents and tables where monetary amounts figure largely, make maximum use of the € symbol (closed up to the figure) or the abbreviation EUR before the amount.
— Source: European Commission, Directorate General for Translation: English Style Guide [7]
To intrude, I'll complain that the name and linguistic issues contains proseline particularly w.r.t. Bulgaria. -- Vuo ( talk) 15:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Euro adoption *.* have been requested for deletion on Commons. Please participate at commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Euro adoption x. -- ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 21:47, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The section Against other major currencies is proseline, a mishmash of news, speculation and factual statements. The problem is inherently aggravated by the topic, namely exchange rate, which is all numbers and figures. A better article should have a sound historical analysis where the effects of inherent weakening of the dollar and actual strenghtening of the euro are distinguished. -- Vuo ( talk) 17:13, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Another issue worth discussing about the Euro is its use as an "official" or "reporting" currency by multi-national organisations when it comes to accounts and reports prepared by the organisation itself or submitted to the organisation by its members. SimonMackay ( talk) 06:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Although I just changed the dates of four countries based on a recent analysts poll, I do wonder myself if this information is reliable, since it is still speculation. Shall we agree to take only dates for future joins from the official announcements made from the local banks? Miguel.mateo ( talk) 01:46, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Are there sources explaining why GBP on the graph of balances is almost in parallel with it constantly? Can it be just written that it's because 'european economy' is in close 'contact' with the british one? -- Leladax ( talk) 18:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Template:Euro has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 18:58, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Template:Euro-dollar has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — ChoChoPK (球球PK) ( talk | contrib) 19:14, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Does this make sense?
:With more than €610 billion in circulation as of December 2006 (equivalent to US$802 billion at the exchange rates at the time), the euro is the currency with the lowest combined value of cash in circulation in the world, having fallen behind the U.S. dollar.[3]
Really? This seems back to front - reading the reference:
Has somethine got flipped at some point? Or is my understanding of macro-economic theory lacking. -- Neo ( talk) 19:16, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Euro_exchange_rate_to_USD%2C_JPY%2C_and_GBP.png -- Tubesship ( talk) 08:00, 14 March 2008 (UTC)