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Redirecting Eumetazoa to animal is not completely correct. It would make more sense to collect the stub articles on the superphyla in Eumetazoa. This would clarify (disambiguate) the information without forcing the user to go to wikispecies to puzzle it out. TheLimbicOne 01:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
If it makes sense to redirect protostome to Eumetazoa, why doesn't it make sense to redirect Eumetazoa to animal? The two groups are not identical, but they are close, whereas groups like deuterostomes are very different in composition. There is a lot to say about each superphylum on their own, and they are used in most classifications, whereas Eumetazoa isn't. I think the proposed moves are very bad ideas. Josh
I think the proposed mergers would be a bad idea. One, I don't understand what the benefit would be. Two, redirecting clade A to clade B will just create confusion -- non-experts will wonder why they ended up at B when they looked for A, and once the reader figures out the reason for the surprising redirect, he/she still has to hunt for the relevant information in an article that's mainly about something else. -- Chl 01:56, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
High-level classification is variable. The version wikispecies uses isn't necessarily wrong, but it isn't necessarily standard and it isn't the whole story. Radiata, Protostomia and Deuterostomia are commonly used, whereas I've seen systems that don't use Eumetazoa. Whatever you were planning to leave behind after the merger - if not redirects, an explanatory note or something - I still think would be more appropriate on Eumetazoa than on those other pages. Josh
If we don't merge (as I see I'm in the minority), can we leave the stub article here with a link to animal, protostome, and deuterostome instead of blindly redirecting to animal? Additionaly, I'd like to re-write the articles on protostome and deuterostome. The articles currently look like they were copied out of a book that discussed them in a single article. For instance, the protostome article talks as much about deuterostomes as protostomes. That was the whole reason I wanted to merge in the first place. The two subjects complement each other well enough to be in the same article and I couldn't decide what a combined article should be named. I've started new subject to discuss this idea. TheLimbicOne( talk) 14:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
See the subject mergers for more background discussion relating to this idea. Any comments on this option? TheLimbicOne( talk) 14:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
It's really not up to us to "organize the tree". There is no single tree: each piece of research results in a different tree. We don't have the expertise to judge between the alternatives: all we can do is present them. For the taxoboxes we try to pick an authoritative and well-respected published synthesis.
Since above-phylum-level taxonomy is currently in a period of flux, it's important not to "take a view" ourselves but to present the alternatives. In particular, we shouldn't start merging articles even if it looks like certain taxa are not clades. First, we may be wrong. Second, many names continue to be widely used even though known to be paraphyletic or polyphyletic, e.g. protists, reptiles, algae, fish, sharks. And third, the article gives us a place to record the history of the taxon and its study. So no merges, please. Gdr 00:35, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
As luck would have it I've stayed away for a week and saved myself from getting in the middle of this. I'd like to say that I agree with the ideas of not trying to describe the taxonomic tree - as a human construct its in flux, and will continue to be until the human race gets comfortable with not being able to fit everything into little boxes. I think its most important for each of these taxons to describe the criteria for belonging to the taxon and listing the subtaxa generally accepted, and those disputed, as subordinates. Mattopaedia 01:43, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
The article says "Most other classification schemes do not include a subkingdom Eumetazoa. Cladistic systems do not recognize Eumetazoa because it does not form a monophyletic clade." Whether or not they consider it a subkingdom, many recent papers and classifications refer to the clade Eumetazoa as comprising those animals (metazoans) that have tissues and a gastrula stage of development. This excludes sponges but includes Cnidarians and Bilaterians. More obscure groups such as mesozoans and Trichoplax are more problematic, but either fit into that clade or don't. Cephal-odd 01:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I removed the mention of organs formed by germ layers, because as I understand it, only those animals with three germ layers (triploblasts) have true organs. Cephal-odd 04:55, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to do it, but someone could add a link to the chinese article on this. 65.78.17.194 01:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
One of the characteristics is given as having a gastrula stage, the gastrula page specifies that this is a triploblast structure, but not all Eumatazoa (such as Cnidaria) are triploblasts. Cjeam ( talk) 22:25, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
A wikipedian confused the terms Metazoa and Eumetazoa, and created a page for Metazoa describing the taxon Eumetazoa. Here is the information that was found on that page, if there is anything here that is not currently on this page, by all means use it.
Werothegreat 17:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
The Phylum Placozoa is not part of the Subkingdom Eumetazoa. It is actually part of the Subkingdom Parazoa alongside the Phylum Porifera (true sponges). Members of the Phylum Placozoa are not sponges, in other words, but they do share a Subkingdom with sponges, not with us. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 02:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
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This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Redirecting Eumetazoa to animal is not completely correct. It would make more sense to collect the stub articles on the superphyla in Eumetazoa. This would clarify (disambiguate) the information without forcing the user to go to wikispecies to puzzle it out. TheLimbicOne 01:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
If it makes sense to redirect protostome to Eumetazoa, why doesn't it make sense to redirect Eumetazoa to animal? The two groups are not identical, but they are close, whereas groups like deuterostomes are very different in composition. There is a lot to say about each superphylum on their own, and they are used in most classifications, whereas Eumetazoa isn't. I think the proposed moves are very bad ideas. Josh
I think the proposed mergers would be a bad idea. One, I don't understand what the benefit would be. Two, redirecting clade A to clade B will just create confusion -- non-experts will wonder why they ended up at B when they looked for A, and once the reader figures out the reason for the surprising redirect, he/she still has to hunt for the relevant information in an article that's mainly about something else. -- Chl 01:56, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
High-level classification is variable. The version wikispecies uses isn't necessarily wrong, but it isn't necessarily standard and it isn't the whole story. Radiata, Protostomia and Deuterostomia are commonly used, whereas I've seen systems that don't use Eumetazoa. Whatever you were planning to leave behind after the merger - if not redirects, an explanatory note or something - I still think would be more appropriate on Eumetazoa than on those other pages. Josh
If we don't merge (as I see I'm in the minority), can we leave the stub article here with a link to animal, protostome, and deuterostome instead of blindly redirecting to animal? Additionaly, I'd like to re-write the articles on protostome and deuterostome. The articles currently look like they were copied out of a book that discussed them in a single article. For instance, the protostome article talks as much about deuterostomes as protostomes. That was the whole reason I wanted to merge in the first place. The two subjects complement each other well enough to be in the same article and I couldn't decide what a combined article should be named. I've started new subject to discuss this idea. TheLimbicOne( talk) 14:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
See the subject mergers for more background discussion relating to this idea. Any comments on this option? TheLimbicOne( talk) 14:27, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
It's really not up to us to "organize the tree". There is no single tree: each piece of research results in a different tree. We don't have the expertise to judge between the alternatives: all we can do is present them. For the taxoboxes we try to pick an authoritative and well-respected published synthesis.
Since above-phylum-level taxonomy is currently in a period of flux, it's important not to "take a view" ourselves but to present the alternatives. In particular, we shouldn't start merging articles even if it looks like certain taxa are not clades. First, we may be wrong. Second, many names continue to be widely used even though known to be paraphyletic or polyphyletic, e.g. protists, reptiles, algae, fish, sharks. And third, the article gives us a place to record the history of the taxon and its study. So no merges, please. Gdr 00:35, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
As luck would have it I've stayed away for a week and saved myself from getting in the middle of this. I'd like to say that I agree with the ideas of not trying to describe the taxonomic tree - as a human construct its in flux, and will continue to be until the human race gets comfortable with not being able to fit everything into little boxes. I think its most important for each of these taxons to describe the criteria for belonging to the taxon and listing the subtaxa generally accepted, and those disputed, as subordinates. Mattopaedia 01:43, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
The article says "Most other classification schemes do not include a subkingdom Eumetazoa. Cladistic systems do not recognize Eumetazoa because it does not form a monophyletic clade." Whether or not they consider it a subkingdom, many recent papers and classifications refer to the clade Eumetazoa as comprising those animals (metazoans) that have tissues and a gastrula stage of development. This excludes sponges but includes Cnidarians and Bilaterians. More obscure groups such as mesozoans and Trichoplax are more problematic, but either fit into that clade or don't. Cephal-odd 01:27, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
I removed the mention of organs formed by germ layers, because as I understand it, only those animals with three germ layers (triploblasts) have true organs. Cephal-odd 04:55, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to do it, but someone could add a link to the chinese article on this. 65.78.17.194 01:48, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
One of the characteristics is given as having a gastrula stage, the gastrula page specifies that this is a triploblast structure, but not all Eumatazoa (such as Cnidaria) are triploblasts. Cjeam ( talk) 22:25, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
A wikipedian confused the terms Metazoa and Eumetazoa, and created a page for Metazoa describing the taxon Eumetazoa. Here is the information that was found on that page, if there is anything here that is not currently on this page, by all means use it.
Werothegreat 17:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
The Phylum Placozoa is not part of the Subkingdom Eumetazoa. It is actually part of the Subkingdom Parazoa alongside the Phylum Porifera (true sponges). Members of the Phylum Placozoa are not sponges, in other words, but they do share a Subkingdom with sponges, not with us. The Mysterious El Willstro ( talk) 02:58, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Eumetazoa. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:36, 24 September 2017 (UTC)