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I just read a article of a old nintendo power where we can see a image of ermac in the first MK. I dont know if it's a glitch but for a glitch it's seem too big. The explenation that was with the photo was that we cannot see Ermac on the Genesis... only in the Nintendo version. Here how we are supposed to do to see Ermac. You have to use Jhonny Cage in a 1 player mode. At the shaolin temple againste Sonya Blade... you got to win the two round by a flawless victory and finish with a fatality. After the fatality this sign should apear ##. Go forward and roundhouse kick two time the first one depending on the side you are. And Ermac fall from the sky and Jhonny Cage die right away and we can read on the screen ERMAC WIN. Ive seen a lot of glitch but not big like that. Don't Ask me if it's work i dind't try it. But if it's a error this is the greatest error they could do because Ermac RULES!!!!!!!!!
Ermac WAS in the first version of Mortal Kombat 1 but only as a glitch and only on some ROMS. You had to get to reptile on the pit in an endurance match (double flawless victory + fatality) then once you defeated reptile, reptile would come back but his name would be changed to ERMAC. The graphics would also become glitchy, quite often the ermacs character would be a solid block or invisible. The name came from a bug, on an endurance match you fight 2 opponents, the developers never programed in a second opponent when fighting Reptile. The name ERMAC is actually short for ERROR MACRO, a return value when a character ID has no matching name.
Here are the exact steps to see the ERMAC glitch on a Sega Megadrive (Genesis) with an early PAL Mortal Kombat catridge. On the screen where you can choose to start or change options, press Down, Up, Left, Left, A, Right, Down. A new menu choice, "Cheat Enabled," should appear There will be a new menu option - cheats. From there select the plan base option and change it to 3. This helps ensure that you will be on the pitt stage when you get to the endurance fights. Turn flags 0 (1 hit to kill opponent) and 2 (easier to get to reptile) on and blood on. Now fight your way up to the endurance matches. When you get to an endurance match where the background is the Pitt win with a double flawless victory and perform the fatality. You will encounter reptile, beat him and the character that immediatly replaces him in the endurance will be a glitchy block called ERMAC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.81.69.132 ( talk) 06:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
We have no official height and weight for Ermac; stop changing it. These will remain blank.
Ermac's allies are ONLY Liu Kang and Kenshi, no-one else! Why and who keeps changing it adding Sonya and Johnny Cage? Also who is behind the image changes of his picture?
-* Pepsi440 *-
For future reference, check his MK Trilogy biography. He came together on his own, and Shao Kahn took control of him. Shadaloo 13:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
How come this page has nothing about how the idea of him started as a glitch in MK1?
-Good point. There we go. Shadaloo 03:59, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
How did the amalgamation of spirits that formed Ermac came about? Is he constantly evolving by adding/removing spirits?
It's said only that he's made up of the souls of those kiled in Outworld's wars - nothing is known as to whether he adds or loses more. Shadaloo 05:09, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
The trivia about the supposed glitch in MK1 shouldn't be worded as a fact. Nobody has ever been able to prove any of that and anyone in the MK community knows it's one of the most controversial topics. Also I don't think it should go into any specifics about what happens during the glitch. There's a million different variations on what happens. Red Reptile, red Scorpion, Error Macro in lifebar, Ermac in lifebar, Ermac wins message, and so on. You could fill up an entire article just on that topic. If this is going to be brought up there should be more than just one take on it presented as known fact.
The "interview where Ed Boon confirmed the ermac glitch" is legendary. More people reference and cite it as proof Ermac is in MK1 than have ever actually read it. It's actually not that exciting and in usual Ed Boon style he talks a lot but doesn't say much at all. It's from a 1993 issue of Gamepro in an interview with Boon and Roger Sharpe. This is exactly what was said.
"Ed Boon: I can't tell you if it's in MKII. It's not necessarily a thing that you can get to this or that. It's associated with a...I can't say it's a bug, but it's an event that happens in the game that shouldn't happen. I called it Ermac, my program code, which stands for "Error Macro." When something happens that shouldn't
happen it'll fix itself. Similarly, Smash TV had a thing where the game would lock up and would put you in a Warp Zone. It would basically recover the system and put you back in the game but the game creators called that glitch the Hidden Key Room or something like that. Ermac is similar to that. It's not a feature that can be accessed by doing any particular moves."
So very little is actually revealed. Absolutely nothing about "Ermac wins", "error macro" in the lifebar, a red scorpion, a red reptile, or any kind of red ninja at all. In fact he makes no mention of fighting or seeing a character and refers to this as "it" and "an event".
It needed just a little touching up. Hopefully no one's offended by this - Power Slave 18:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
in this article it is stated he was only an error in one of the earlier games (ERMAC was short for ERror MAChine) can someone confirm this and inster in this article? 194.76.29.2
"This is the only instance in the history of Mortal Kombat where a rumor led to the creation of an actual character."
I don't think that this is accuarate. That Flaming guy in the MK games was based off a rumour also. It can be argued that the Blaze guy wasn't rumour only because there was a sprite of a guy on fire in Pit 2. But then you could also argue that the Ermac rumour was tangible also, as the text for ERMAC could be found in game. Right next to the Reptile data. I deleted the line but it was readded, so I thought I'd bring it up before trying to delete it again.-- Iamstillhiro1112 20:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
You haven't answered Marphy's point - except Ermac, can you name any other character that was created from a rumour? The rumour of Ermac existed before his character was created. The character of Blaze was created before any rumours about him existed. There is nothing to suggest that any other character was developed in the same manner that Ermac was. RobWill80 01:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
"The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article." See : Wikipedia:Verifiability. -- Iamstillhiro1112 13:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm asking for a reliable source for the challenged lines content. Remember that line "Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source"? Stop proving to me that Ermac was created by rumour, I already know that. But you need that resource that says he is the ONLY character created from rumour. Talking me to death and repeating the same irrelevant things isn't the same as providing the resource. And again, Blaze was a rumour, the background image was named Torch by fans who wished that it was an actual character. Then Midway responded to that rumour by actually retconning it into one, like they did with the Sub-zero turning into a polar bear rumour, and Ermac also. "Once again you don't seem to have provided an answer to my excruciatingly simple request to name one other character that was created from a rumor" I have again and again, it's not my fault if you don't want to accept the answer, so just move on with a question cause there are no other characters thus far who have been created by rumour. "However, it has already been determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that Blaze was not created from a rumor" In your mind yes, but we didn't need to change your mind. Remember, if you want to keep your favorite line intact ""The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article." See : Wikipedia:Verifiability." If you want to hear someone else acknowledge the Torch in MK2 rumour read here : " http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=596&page=3"-- Iamstillhiro1112 You will hear from someone else back in 2004 saying how the rumor isn't true. Although it has been retconned since. 13:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Here's a resource that plainly states that Torch wasn't always torch.
http://www.gamepro.com/gamepro/domestic/games/features/30667.shtml
And from a reliable resource, accredited press. There it states that Fanatics named a character Torch, although he was non existant, and existed in rumour form at the time. Thus another character was created from rumour.-- Iamstillhiro1112 21:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Found my way here via WP:3O. Looks to me like all of you folks are running around in original research circles, and that's generally not so good. Per verifiability policy, is there a reliable source which says Ermac is the only character created from rumor? I don't want synthesis of existing data, that's clearly original research. It's abundantly clear we can say he was created from rumor; as far as I can see, though, the much stronger statement that he's the "only" such character hasn't been mentioned by what I would consider a reliable and/or independently published source. Is it really so bad to just say he was created from a rumor, and leave it at that? Luna Santin 23:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Let me put this as simple as possible, Blaze was in the game, he was there, he couldn't be played as, but he was there. Ermac never existed in the first MK game, Ermac only existed in the minds of players, and that one fake photo from EGM, Ermac never made an in-game apperance, the first time he appeared in-game was UMK3, he was playable, he was there, he had a story, he had an ending, his ending was actually making fun of the belief that he could be found in MK1, where it is stated Ermac used the tournament to prove he existed, Ermac was created from a rumor, Blaze was not created from a rumor, you can clearly see him in the background of "the pit II", he was not born from the words of players, he was created completly from scratch by Midway, Ermac is the only character that was born from a rumor. BassxForte 23:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Let me try this again, Blaze could be seen in "the pit II", I'm not sure if Midway thought of him as an actual character, and since I became a fan of the series around the release of MKD I don't know if their were any rumors surronding him, however, Blaze was there in the background, however Ermac never really existed in the series until UMK3, he only existed in the form of rumors, that all spawned from the EGM issue, now Ermac exists as a character, but he never existed outside of rumors until UMK3, Blaze was there (I seem to be repeating myself) in MK2, he probably wasn't a real character at the time, but nevertheless he was there. BassxForte 00:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
There... I'm done, I've made my point, unless I see a good reason I'm leaving this discussion, I don't want to waste time hearing people call my facts "orginal research", which is an insult by my logic, all I wanted to do with my first post in this discussion was drop the truth down, I didn't expect you to respond like this... BassxForte 00:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I know I said I was leaving this argument but their is something I feel I have to say, the entire concept of Ermac was born from rumors, his apperance, how to find him, all rumors, the only rumors surronding Blaze (and possibly Rain) was that it was possible to play as/against them, Blaze and Rain may have become playable characters due to rumors, but they existed beforehand, even if they did not have a storyline, identity, etc. Ermac however, was created from scratch by fans, and never existed in-game in any form, shape, or way until UMK3. BassxForte 06:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
It takes two to have a lame) discussion. And I'm only reporting what I see. The Rain page does state that Rain was originally a red herring not meant to be developed into a real character. So thus far it is two pages that will need rewrites for your favorite line to stay on the Ermac page. BTW, you can stop throwing out policy violation accusations anytime now. Anyhow, the Ermac rumor wasn't totally unfounded either. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v612/iamstillhiro1112/?action=view¤t=mkla1.png That is the diagnostics test from the first revision of MK1. The reason why that is there is irrelevant to the ones who created the first rumours of the guys existance. It was to them a good enough reason to create a rumor.-- Iamstillhiro1112 22:25, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
That isn't how Rain started is what I am saying, and it don't need clarification and I know you understand what I was saying. It's just more fun for you to call it nonsense I guess. The first revision of UMK3 had Rain in the intro, but he was not programmed in the game as far as I know. And the later revisions of the arcade game did not contain said footage. It wasn't until the home release that he was implemented in the game. And his ever being included in a game wasn't a sure thing. Tremor may well have been the new ninja implemented rather than rain.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Mk_tremormanual.jpg
That image was from the first version of Mortal Kombat Trilogy. It is believed that originally Tremor was gonna be added to the game, but the story was rewritten a bit to accomidate rain instead. Notice the brown color of the suit, which isn't rains color. You can read more about it in the wikipedia article about him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_Mortal_Kombat_characters#Tremor
Ed Boon said in the Rain Bio vid that it was later decided to make him playable. " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2S84jG0xgo" So it wasn't always planned for him to play a role in UMK3.
The diagnostic screen I just linked doesn't serve as confirmation that Ermac was there, I never said that. But it served as a base for a rumor. Thus the rumor had backing and wasn't created totally out of thin air. Just as the Rain rumor had backing, although much stronger. And the torch rumour has some sorta backing, in that there are background characters that make the level look cool. But they were originally only rumours. They have been canonized only recently.-- Iamstillhiro1112 00:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
-- Iamstillhiro1112 00:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
We seem to be going in circles, and I don't think we're going to stop any time soon. Personally, I'm not sure how I can "give" any more towards a compromise than I already have, without undermining my position. As I've said above, the word "only" implies that the statement refers to every MK character, ever, and with that in mind, I think we ned a reliable source, free of original research or other data-synthesis, to support such a bold statement. Without such a reliable source (which still hasn't been provided), I honestly don't see why it would be such a crying shame to just omit that single word, "only." Thoughts? – Luna Santin ( talk) 06:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Blaze did not come from the fans, their might have been rumors that he was playable, but never any rumors that he existed, like ermac. BassxForte 17:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Error Macro, is shown as Ermacs. And the screen doesn't even say anything about Error Macros. As said before, Ermacs rumour is the only thing that has been created completely from scratch. The name was taken from the diagnostic screen. Completely the opposite. The background image that later represented Blaze was there, but the name was fan created.-- Iamstillhiro1112 20:22, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Although Blaze and Rain appeared in-game prior to becoming selectable players, Ermac did not, the fact his name appeared in the screen did not mean he had a presence, someone just came to the conclusion that it referanced another character and the rumor spread like wildfire, the name was never meant to signify another character, although Ermac has been introduced as a red ninja, he never existed in any form in the first MK game. BassxForte 20:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not arguing with your Ermac argument, it wasn't meant to hint at another character. But I also argue that Torch was not meant to signify another character as well. It was just cool background art that has been retconned to become another character.-- Iamstillhiro1112 21:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
" http://www.gamepro.com/gamepro/domestic/games/features/30667.shtml"
Fanatics dubbed him torch. This was written before MK Deception was available.
" http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=596&page=3"
Retro fan who heard of the original Torch rumor.
" http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=931479&topic=33555073"
Of course the last two links can't be used as verification, but it shows that my argument isn't original. The first link is pretty valid I would say, as it is official gaming press.-- Iamstillhiro1112 06:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I guess you can call that line irrelevant. Knowing Blaze is the only character to "blah blah blah". Similiar to the Ermac line situation. It's unverifiable, and Ermac is still created from rumors without it.-- Iamstillhiro1112 18:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
The statement in question is irrefutable, MarphyBlack has provided sources out of which the statement can be deduced by common sense. In the case of Ermac, the rumour was there first, then the developers reacted by turning the rumour into an actual character. In Blaze's case, the character was there first, created by the developers, though not playable at first. THEN there were rumours about him, until Blaze became available as a playable character. These are facts, sources have been provided. I also consider this to be a very significant information, as it shows something about the relation between the developers and the MK fan community that is not to be taken for granted. It should be put back into the article. Zarkumo 16:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not interested in deleting large portions of the database, just what I myself find questionable. Notice that the character development section needed help in the first place. Click the edit button and you'll see this "Someone should really rewrite all this!". I didn't write that, someone else did. -- Iamstillhiro1112 05:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I had always been under the impression that Ermac stood for "error macro" but when I googled to find a reference for it, one of the the first results i found was :
http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/arcademortalkombat.htm
There it states that Ermac was a shortening of the term "ERror in the MAChine". We should find that reference so that this won't come up again.-- Iamstillhiro1112 13:18, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
This about Ermac section sites zero sources and reads like a story, rather than encyclopedia. It needs some major revisions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingfiogojr ( talk • contribs)
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Rather than bring trivial issues up here, I will just make minor changes to the article myself. You are most welcome to revert any changes I make, and we can instead discuss the issue here. You are also welcome to address concerns as I list them; there's no need to wait until my review is finished before addressing any issue I raise.
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@ Beemer69: I've completed my initial prose concerns and source reliability concerns. As you can see, this article needs a fair bit of work. I haven't actually made an active check to see if sources back up what they claim to, and that source review is, believe it or not, me going easy on you. There are probably half a dozen other sources that quite possibly aren't reliable but I'm willing to let slide at this stage if the worst of the sources are removed. I also haven't touched on issues like layout; for example, "Legacy" should be a sub-section of "Reception", not "History". I'm happy to leave this open for a while for you to work on the concerns I've listed above, however, be advised those are just initial concerns. Once they are addressed there will be more. I am more than happy to answer any questions you have to help guide you along the process. Alternatively, if you don't want to feel rushed, you can just ask me to close the nomination, at which point you can work on all the concerns entirely at your convenience and just renominate it again once you're done. You would be most welcome to contact me directly when it is renominated and if I am not overly busy I would happily review the article again. But don't feel like I'm trying to pressure you into doing that. By all means, if you think you can knock out the initial concerns in the next week or so, give it a shot and we can go from there. :) Freikorp ( talk) 12:45, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
OK. I'm really impressed with the amount of work you've done improving this article. That being said, for future reference, an article should look something like this prior to nomination. :)
OK, I think that's everything. Once those issues are addressed I'll do some spot checks to make sure sources back up what the are supposed to and if that all checks out we should be good to go. Freikorp ( talk) 10:19, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
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![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I just read a article of a old nintendo power where we can see a image of ermac in the first MK. I dont know if it's a glitch but for a glitch it's seem too big. The explenation that was with the photo was that we cannot see Ermac on the Genesis... only in the Nintendo version. Here how we are supposed to do to see Ermac. You have to use Jhonny Cage in a 1 player mode. At the shaolin temple againste Sonya Blade... you got to win the two round by a flawless victory and finish with a fatality. After the fatality this sign should apear ##. Go forward and roundhouse kick two time the first one depending on the side you are. And Ermac fall from the sky and Jhonny Cage die right away and we can read on the screen ERMAC WIN. Ive seen a lot of glitch but not big like that. Don't Ask me if it's work i dind't try it. But if it's a error this is the greatest error they could do because Ermac RULES!!!!!!!!!
Ermac WAS in the first version of Mortal Kombat 1 but only as a glitch and only on some ROMS. You had to get to reptile on the pit in an endurance match (double flawless victory + fatality) then once you defeated reptile, reptile would come back but his name would be changed to ERMAC. The graphics would also become glitchy, quite often the ermacs character would be a solid block or invisible. The name came from a bug, on an endurance match you fight 2 opponents, the developers never programed in a second opponent when fighting Reptile. The name ERMAC is actually short for ERROR MACRO, a return value when a character ID has no matching name.
Here are the exact steps to see the ERMAC glitch on a Sega Megadrive (Genesis) with an early PAL Mortal Kombat catridge. On the screen where you can choose to start or change options, press Down, Up, Left, Left, A, Right, Down. A new menu choice, "Cheat Enabled," should appear There will be a new menu option - cheats. From there select the plan base option and change it to 3. This helps ensure that you will be on the pitt stage when you get to the endurance fights. Turn flags 0 (1 hit to kill opponent) and 2 (easier to get to reptile) on and blood on. Now fight your way up to the endurance matches. When you get to an endurance match where the background is the Pitt win with a double flawless victory and perform the fatality. You will encounter reptile, beat him and the character that immediatly replaces him in the endurance will be a glitchy block called ERMAC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.81.69.132 ( talk) 06:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
We have no official height and weight for Ermac; stop changing it. These will remain blank.
Ermac's allies are ONLY Liu Kang and Kenshi, no-one else! Why and who keeps changing it adding Sonya and Johnny Cage? Also who is behind the image changes of his picture?
-* Pepsi440 *-
For future reference, check his MK Trilogy biography. He came together on his own, and Shao Kahn took control of him. Shadaloo 13:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
How come this page has nothing about how the idea of him started as a glitch in MK1?
-Good point. There we go. Shadaloo 03:59, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
How did the amalgamation of spirits that formed Ermac came about? Is he constantly evolving by adding/removing spirits?
It's said only that he's made up of the souls of those kiled in Outworld's wars - nothing is known as to whether he adds or loses more. Shadaloo 05:09, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
The trivia about the supposed glitch in MK1 shouldn't be worded as a fact. Nobody has ever been able to prove any of that and anyone in the MK community knows it's one of the most controversial topics. Also I don't think it should go into any specifics about what happens during the glitch. There's a million different variations on what happens. Red Reptile, red Scorpion, Error Macro in lifebar, Ermac in lifebar, Ermac wins message, and so on. You could fill up an entire article just on that topic. If this is going to be brought up there should be more than just one take on it presented as known fact.
The "interview where Ed Boon confirmed the ermac glitch" is legendary. More people reference and cite it as proof Ermac is in MK1 than have ever actually read it. It's actually not that exciting and in usual Ed Boon style he talks a lot but doesn't say much at all. It's from a 1993 issue of Gamepro in an interview with Boon and Roger Sharpe. This is exactly what was said.
"Ed Boon: I can't tell you if it's in MKII. It's not necessarily a thing that you can get to this or that. It's associated with a...I can't say it's a bug, but it's an event that happens in the game that shouldn't happen. I called it Ermac, my program code, which stands for "Error Macro." When something happens that shouldn't
happen it'll fix itself. Similarly, Smash TV had a thing where the game would lock up and would put you in a Warp Zone. It would basically recover the system and put you back in the game but the game creators called that glitch the Hidden Key Room or something like that. Ermac is similar to that. It's not a feature that can be accessed by doing any particular moves."
So very little is actually revealed. Absolutely nothing about "Ermac wins", "error macro" in the lifebar, a red scorpion, a red reptile, or any kind of red ninja at all. In fact he makes no mention of fighting or seeing a character and refers to this as "it" and "an event".
It needed just a little touching up. Hopefully no one's offended by this - Power Slave 18:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
in this article it is stated he was only an error in one of the earlier games (ERMAC was short for ERror MAChine) can someone confirm this and inster in this article? 194.76.29.2
"This is the only instance in the history of Mortal Kombat where a rumor led to the creation of an actual character."
I don't think that this is accuarate. That Flaming guy in the MK games was based off a rumour also. It can be argued that the Blaze guy wasn't rumour only because there was a sprite of a guy on fire in Pit 2. But then you could also argue that the Ermac rumour was tangible also, as the text for ERMAC could be found in game. Right next to the Reptile data. I deleted the line but it was readded, so I thought I'd bring it up before trying to delete it again.-- Iamstillhiro1112 20:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
You haven't answered Marphy's point - except Ermac, can you name any other character that was created from a rumour? The rumour of Ermac existed before his character was created. The character of Blaze was created before any rumours about him existed. There is nothing to suggest that any other character was developed in the same manner that Ermac was. RobWill80 01:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
"The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article." See : Wikipedia:Verifiability. -- Iamstillhiro1112 13:53, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm asking for a reliable source for the challenged lines content. Remember that line "Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source"? Stop proving to me that Ermac was created by rumour, I already know that. But you need that resource that says he is the ONLY character created from rumour. Talking me to death and repeating the same irrelevant things isn't the same as providing the resource. And again, Blaze was a rumour, the background image was named Torch by fans who wished that it was an actual character. Then Midway responded to that rumour by actually retconning it into one, like they did with the Sub-zero turning into a polar bear rumour, and Ermac also. "Once again you don't seem to have provided an answer to my excruciatingly simple request to name one other character that was created from a rumor" I have again and again, it's not my fault if you don't want to accept the answer, so just move on with a question cause there are no other characters thus far who have been created by rumour. "However, it has already been determined beyond a shadow of a doubt that Blaze was not created from a rumor" In your mind yes, but we didn't need to change your mind. Remember, if you want to keep your favorite line intact ""The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article." See : Wikipedia:Verifiability." If you want to hear someone else acknowledge the Torch in MK2 rumour read here : " http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=596&page=3"-- Iamstillhiro1112 You will hear from someone else back in 2004 saying how the rumor isn't true. Although it has been retconned since. 13:18, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Here's a resource that plainly states that Torch wasn't always torch.
http://www.gamepro.com/gamepro/domestic/games/features/30667.shtml
And from a reliable resource, accredited press. There it states that Fanatics named a character Torch, although he was non existant, and existed in rumour form at the time. Thus another character was created from rumour.-- Iamstillhiro1112 21:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Found my way here via WP:3O. Looks to me like all of you folks are running around in original research circles, and that's generally not so good. Per verifiability policy, is there a reliable source which says Ermac is the only character created from rumor? I don't want synthesis of existing data, that's clearly original research. It's abundantly clear we can say he was created from rumor; as far as I can see, though, the much stronger statement that he's the "only" such character hasn't been mentioned by what I would consider a reliable and/or independently published source. Is it really so bad to just say he was created from a rumor, and leave it at that? Luna Santin 23:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Let me put this as simple as possible, Blaze was in the game, he was there, he couldn't be played as, but he was there. Ermac never existed in the first MK game, Ermac only existed in the minds of players, and that one fake photo from EGM, Ermac never made an in-game apperance, the first time he appeared in-game was UMK3, he was playable, he was there, he had a story, he had an ending, his ending was actually making fun of the belief that he could be found in MK1, where it is stated Ermac used the tournament to prove he existed, Ermac was created from a rumor, Blaze was not created from a rumor, you can clearly see him in the background of "the pit II", he was not born from the words of players, he was created completly from scratch by Midway, Ermac is the only character that was born from a rumor. BassxForte 23:39, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Let me try this again, Blaze could be seen in "the pit II", I'm not sure if Midway thought of him as an actual character, and since I became a fan of the series around the release of MKD I don't know if their were any rumors surronding him, however, Blaze was there in the background, however Ermac never really existed in the series until UMK3, he only existed in the form of rumors, that all spawned from the EGM issue, now Ermac exists as a character, but he never existed outside of rumors until UMK3, Blaze was there (I seem to be repeating myself) in MK2, he probably wasn't a real character at the time, but nevertheless he was there. BassxForte 00:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
There... I'm done, I've made my point, unless I see a good reason I'm leaving this discussion, I don't want to waste time hearing people call my facts "orginal research", which is an insult by my logic, all I wanted to do with my first post in this discussion was drop the truth down, I didn't expect you to respond like this... BassxForte 00:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I know I said I was leaving this argument but their is something I feel I have to say, the entire concept of Ermac was born from rumors, his apperance, how to find him, all rumors, the only rumors surronding Blaze (and possibly Rain) was that it was possible to play as/against them, Blaze and Rain may have become playable characters due to rumors, but they existed beforehand, even if they did not have a storyline, identity, etc. Ermac however, was created from scratch by fans, and never existed in-game in any form, shape, or way until UMK3. BassxForte 06:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
It takes two to have a lame) discussion. And I'm only reporting what I see. The Rain page does state that Rain was originally a red herring not meant to be developed into a real character. So thus far it is two pages that will need rewrites for your favorite line to stay on the Ermac page. BTW, you can stop throwing out policy violation accusations anytime now. Anyhow, the Ermac rumor wasn't totally unfounded either. http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v612/iamstillhiro1112/?action=view¤t=mkla1.png That is the diagnostics test from the first revision of MK1. The reason why that is there is irrelevant to the ones who created the first rumours of the guys existance. It was to them a good enough reason to create a rumor.-- Iamstillhiro1112 22:25, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
That isn't how Rain started is what I am saying, and it don't need clarification and I know you understand what I was saying. It's just more fun for you to call it nonsense I guess. The first revision of UMK3 had Rain in the intro, but he was not programmed in the game as far as I know. And the later revisions of the arcade game did not contain said footage. It wasn't until the home release that he was implemented in the game. And his ever being included in a game wasn't a sure thing. Tremor may well have been the new ninja implemented rather than rain.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/34/Mk_tremormanual.jpg
That image was from the first version of Mortal Kombat Trilogy. It is believed that originally Tremor was gonna be added to the game, but the story was rewritten a bit to accomidate rain instead. Notice the brown color of the suit, which isn't rains color. You can read more about it in the wikipedia article about him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_Mortal_Kombat_characters#Tremor
Ed Boon said in the Rain Bio vid that it was later decided to make him playable. " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2S84jG0xgo" So it wasn't always planned for him to play a role in UMK3.
The diagnostic screen I just linked doesn't serve as confirmation that Ermac was there, I never said that. But it served as a base for a rumor. Thus the rumor had backing and wasn't created totally out of thin air. Just as the Rain rumor had backing, although much stronger. And the torch rumour has some sorta backing, in that there are background characters that make the level look cool. But they were originally only rumours. They have been canonized only recently.-- Iamstillhiro1112 00:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
-- Iamstillhiro1112 00:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
We seem to be going in circles, and I don't think we're going to stop any time soon. Personally, I'm not sure how I can "give" any more towards a compromise than I already have, without undermining my position. As I've said above, the word "only" implies that the statement refers to every MK character, ever, and with that in mind, I think we ned a reliable source, free of original research or other data-synthesis, to support such a bold statement. Without such a reliable source (which still hasn't been provided), I honestly don't see why it would be such a crying shame to just omit that single word, "only." Thoughts? – Luna Santin ( talk) 06:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Blaze did not come from the fans, their might have been rumors that he was playable, but never any rumors that he existed, like ermac. BassxForte 17:38, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Error Macro, is shown as Ermacs. And the screen doesn't even say anything about Error Macros. As said before, Ermacs rumour is the only thing that has been created completely from scratch. The name was taken from the diagnostic screen. Completely the opposite. The background image that later represented Blaze was there, but the name was fan created.-- Iamstillhiro1112 20:22, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Although Blaze and Rain appeared in-game prior to becoming selectable players, Ermac did not, the fact his name appeared in the screen did not mean he had a presence, someone just came to the conclusion that it referanced another character and the rumor spread like wildfire, the name was never meant to signify another character, although Ermac has been introduced as a red ninja, he never existed in any form in the first MK game. BassxForte 20:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not arguing with your Ermac argument, it wasn't meant to hint at another character. But I also argue that Torch was not meant to signify another character as well. It was just cool background art that has been retconned to become another character.-- Iamstillhiro1112 21:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
" http://www.gamepro.com/gamepro/domestic/games/features/30667.shtml"
Fanatics dubbed him torch. This was written before MK Deception was available.
" http://www.mortalkombatonline.com/content/forum/showmessage.cds?id=596&page=3"
Retro fan who heard of the original Torch rumor.
" http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=931479&topic=33555073"
Of course the last two links can't be used as verification, but it shows that my argument isn't original. The first link is pretty valid I would say, as it is official gaming press.-- Iamstillhiro1112 06:10, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I guess you can call that line irrelevant. Knowing Blaze is the only character to "blah blah blah". Similiar to the Ermac line situation. It's unverifiable, and Ermac is still created from rumors without it.-- Iamstillhiro1112 18:07, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
The statement in question is irrefutable, MarphyBlack has provided sources out of which the statement can be deduced by common sense. In the case of Ermac, the rumour was there first, then the developers reacted by turning the rumour into an actual character. In Blaze's case, the character was there first, created by the developers, though not playable at first. THEN there were rumours about him, until Blaze became available as a playable character. These are facts, sources have been provided. I also consider this to be a very significant information, as it shows something about the relation between the developers and the MK fan community that is not to be taken for granted. It should be put back into the article. Zarkumo 16:32, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not interested in deleting large portions of the database, just what I myself find questionable. Notice that the character development section needed help in the first place. Click the edit button and you'll see this "Someone should really rewrite all this!". I didn't write that, someone else did. -- Iamstillhiro1112 05:01, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I had always been under the impression that Ermac stood for "error macro" but when I googled to find a reference for it, one of the the first results i found was :
http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/arcademortalkombat.htm
There it states that Ermac was a shortening of the term "ERror in the MAChine". We should find that reference so that this won't come up again.-- Iamstillhiro1112 13:18, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
This about Ermac section sites zero sources and reads like a story, rather than encyclopedia. It needs some major revisions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kingfiogojr ( talk • contribs)
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Rather than bring trivial issues up here, I will just make minor changes to the article myself. You are most welcome to revert any changes I make, and we can instead discuss the issue here. You are also welcome to address concerns as I list them; there's no need to wait until my review is finished before addressing any issue I raise.
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@ Beemer69: I've completed my initial prose concerns and source reliability concerns. As you can see, this article needs a fair bit of work. I haven't actually made an active check to see if sources back up what they claim to, and that source review is, believe it or not, me going easy on you. There are probably half a dozen other sources that quite possibly aren't reliable but I'm willing to let slide at this stage if the worst of the sources are removed. I also haven't touched on issues like layout; for example, "Legacy" should be a sub-section of "Reception", not "History". I'm happy to leave this open for a while for you to work on the concerns I've listed above, however, be advised those are just initial concerns. Once they are addressed there will be more. I am more than happy to answer any questions you have to help guide you along the process. Alternatively, if you don't want to feel rushed, you can just ask me to close the nomination, at which point you can work on all the concerns entirely at your convenience and just renominate it again once you're done. You would be most welcome to contact me directly when it is renominated and if I am not overly busy I would happily review the article again. But don't feel like I'm trying to pressure you into doing that. By all means, if you think you can knock out the initial concerns in the next week or so, give it a shot and we can go from there. :) Freikorp ( talk) 12:45, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
OK. I'm really impressed with the amount of work you've done improving this article. That being said, for future reference, an article should look something like this prior to nomination. :)
OK, I think that's everything. Once those issues are addressed I'll do some spot checks to make sure sources back up what the are supposed to and if that all checks out we should be good to go. Freikorp ( talk) 10:19, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
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