This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
The caricature is contemporary (I believe the full picture also features a Byzantine Emperor and, if I remember correctly, the Holy Roman Emperor). Do we have any information about the Polish portait and its age? Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 23:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Twthmoses rightly identifies the three crowns in Eric's union arms as representing the Kalmar Union, and not Sweden. But he objects to the idea that the dividing cross also refers to this union. We will probably never know for sure, but it is very likely 'not' a Dannebrog cross, which would only refer to one of the three kingdoms of this union. The Dannebrog cross appearing in later greater arms of Denmark-Norway is usually shown with fimbriated edges in order to identify it expressly as derived from the flag, with a white cross on a red field. The cross in Eric's union seal is more likely the red cross of the flag that he unsuccessfully tried to adopt for the Kalmar union. That theory has been advocated by the well-known Danish expert on heraldry, Nils G. Bartholdy. See his article: "De tre kroner og korset. Unionssymbolik, ambition og rivalitet", in: Heraldisk tidsskrift, 76 (1997), pp. 233-260. More on the flag of Norden in the FOTW article http://flagspot.net/flags/xn_nordn.html.
The Kalmar union flag had a red cross on a yellow field. The colours were possibly chosen because they were those of the only hereditary kingdom, Norway. On a statue depicting Karl VIII of Sweden, also king of Norway for some years, he is shown carrying the union arms of Sweden and Norway, quartered by a red cross with gold fimbriation. This cross is presumed to be the same "Nordic" cross, appropriated from the Kalmar union arms, probably to demonstrate Karl's claim to be the rightful ruler of that union.
Roede 14:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Nils G. Bartholdy: "De tre kroner og korset. Unionssymbolik, ambition og rivalitet", in: Heraldisk tidsskrift, 76 (1997), pp. 233-260 Poul Grinder-Hansen: "Kalmarunionens flag", in: Nyt fra Nationalmuseet, 6 (1996), p. 6 Nils G. Bartholdy: "Kroner og kors som unionssymboler", in: Poul Grinder-Hansen (ed.): Unionsdrottningen: Margareta I och Kalmarunionen, Föreningen Norden: Stockholm, 1996, pp. 92-97
The triple crown may have been used by the Union, but it predates the Union in its use in Sweden, such as its appearance in the seal of Albert of Sweden and continues today to have wide recognition as a Swedish symbol. That is why I identified the triple crown of the sinister chief quarter as representative of Sweden. My fix to the seal's description, however, was primarily geared toward putting things in the proper quarters, as the previous version had the quarters all mixed up. At least now we are properly identifying dexter and sinister, chief and base, as (anatomic) right and left, top and bottom, respectively. Wilhelm meis 20:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
True, the Kalmar Union flag is only known from two written sources - but they are quite clear about the shape and colours of the flag. According to the FOTW site, "it is described in two letters, both dating from the year 1430. In these letters, king Erik of Pomerania wrote to the priests of Vadstena and Kalmar instructing them to wear on their robes the banner of the realms (union), which were a red cross on a yellow field. Bartholdy is of the opinion that the red cross on a yellow field may have been a conscious choice as new and distinct flag for the union, based on a universal symbol, the cross, and taking the most significant colours from the arms of the three united kingdoms, primarily that of Norway as an inherited realm (king Erik of Pomerania inherited Norway in 1389, several years before being elected king of Denmark and Sweden), but the yellow field also from the arms of Sweden and Denmark at the time." Substantial proof in the shape of actually preserved flags or depictions thereof from that time would be something of a miracle.
I advise a visit to the tomb of Queen Margrethe in Roskilde Cathedral. I recall that her coat of arms is carved in marble, and that it is identical to that of Erik. If my memory serves me right, the cross is without the fimbriations associated with Dannebrog crosses.
The much reproduced but now lost flag of Lübeck is not a very reliable source, as the tinctures of the union arms are mixed up. The arms of Norway (in the lower quadrant near the hoist) shows the lion on a blue field. (Norway is not missing — the colour of the field has made you draw the wrong conlusion). In my opinion, only an act of strong faith can make one see it as a Dannebrog. True, the white cross is present, but in view of the fact that the colours are unreliable, how do we know that the creator of this flag knew the correct colour of the union cross? The most characteristic element, the red field, is missing. (The red "tail" of the flag must be regarded as a mere ornament. The colour is too far out of place to be interpreted as a reference to Dannebrog).
By the way, there is also scant evidence that Dannebrog was actually in common use at the time. Do we have any other evidence than the banner embellishing the arms of the King of Denmark in the Gelre armorial from about 1370? Can one infer from that piece of evidence that the Dannebrog was regarded as the "official" flag of the king or his kingdom?
I propose that we let the matter rest and keep the description in the article unchanged until we have studied the evidence more closely. Roede 23:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I have since found compelling evidence to reverse my previous thought that the Folkung Lion was a Finnish symbol. It turns out that my original source was a bit upside down, and the Folkung Lion as a Swedish symbol significantly predates the use of derivative symbols in Finland. Thanks Roede for challenging the notion. I have corrected the description on this page and the Kalmar Union page. I still maintain, however, that the evidence for retaining the description of the Triple Crown as a Swedish symbol and not as primarily a symbol of the Kalmar Union is overwhelming. Again, its use as a specifically Swedish symbol both significantly predates and survives the Kalmar Union itself. Wilhelm meis ( talk) 20:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Copied from User talk:Barend:
I am just curious why you changed the description of Eric's seal to link the lion to "Norway" instead of the "Hereditary Kingdom of Norway". Perhaps it's splitting hairs, but from a heraldic perspective (and this is in a heraldic context), I would think of "the Hereditary Kingdom of Norway" as the more precisely accurate description of what is represented by the lion maintaining an axe, as depicted in the inescutcheon in the center of the seal. If you have a compelling reason for the change, I'd like to know. Thank you. Wilhelm meis (talk) 20:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
The rest of the description linked to Denmark, Sweden, etc, the respective countries to which the parts of the seal referred. I see no reason why it shouldn't also link to Norway, which is what the lion referred to. The article hereditary kingdom of Norway is a not very good article about the way the Norwegian throne was inherited at various points in its history. The name "hereditary kingdom of Norway" is not very precise, it has never been an official name of the country, and whether Norway was, in fact, hereditary at this point in time is, in fact, open to debate. I see no reason why that article should be linked to from this place. If you want to be accurate, you could of course change the description to "the kingdom of Sweden, the kingdom of Denmark, the duchy of Pomerania, the kingdom of Norway", etc, but still have the links go to Sweden, Denmark and Norway. --Barend (talk) 21:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. Thank you for the discussion. As I previously mentioned, I am looking at this from a purely heraldic perspective. As discussed here, the coat of arms in question (depicted within the inescutcheon) originated not as a symbol of Norway per se, but as a symbol of King Eirik Magnusson of Norway, personally. Since the coat of arms, along with the kingdom, was passed down the hereditary line, I think it is more accurate to link the one with the other, rather than directly equating the device with the nation state of Norway (a correlation that eventually developed with the cultural development of the national identity in the 19th century). Basically, I think to us in the 21st century, it represents Norway, but to Erik of Pomerania and his contemporaries, it represented Norway as the domain of Eirik Magnusson and his heirs. Wilhelm meis (talk) 23:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I think I see what you mean. You have a good point, but I don't think the specific article hereditary kingdom of Norway is any better to link to in that case. An important point is that Eric didn't, in fact, get the kingdom passed down the hereditary line, it ended up with him as the result of political decisions - basically he was elected in Norway as well. And anyway, the point would be the same for Sweden and Denmark as well, not just Norway.--Barend (talk) 11:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I would counter that whether or not he inherited the Kingdom of Norway, the symbol still (at the time) represented the concept of the hereditary kingdom. Again, I am looking at this from a heraldic perspective; there are others who know much more than I do about the actual history of the period. In any case, thank you for the thoughtful discussion. May I copy this to the Talk:Eric_of_Pomerania page? Wilhelm meis (talk) 02:12, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Wilhelm meis ( talk) 23:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
The article says that he was Duke of Stolp/Słupsk from 1449-59. Dukes of Pomerania lists a "Casimir I" as the duke during that time period. Olessi ( talk) 20:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
It seems like there is some evidence for this. [3] [4] I found this while I was making the article on Royal coronations in Norway. Does anyone know more about it? -- Nidator T / C 20:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Articles are to be located at the most commonly used name - it doesn't matter that other kings are located at their numeric title. Eric of Pomerania is never referred to as Eric 7 but invariably as Eric of Pomerania. This is like moving Gorm the Old to Gorm 1 or Magnus the Pious to Magnus 1st. The article has to be moved back. ·Maunus·ƛ· 18:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - Since both names are legitimate and established the numeraled one should be used (1) to match the other numeraled Danish kings by the name of Eric and (2) to avoid strange wording like King Eric of Pomerania of Denmark, Norway and Sweden. There is also global perspective involved. "Eric of Pomerania" makes no sense in many languages to name a king of other countries than Pomerania. In some languages, such as Polish (his native language) he is called Eric the Pomeranian. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 15:17, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Support – An obvious problem with the current title is that he wasn't king of just Denmark, which also gives him different numerals. In Sweden he is also always known as Erik av Pommern. Närking ( talk) 15:20, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
New proposal - Citing my own comment here, and the error I made there, I propose the page should be renamned (that's what I call the moves entailed) Eric III of Norway as he was king there seven years before he was king of Denmark and Sweden. Truly sorry about this flub of mine! SergeWoodzing ( talk) 17:32, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
PS - all the redirects are already in there I now see. The only thing needed is filling the Eric III page and redirecting the others to it, moving talk pages. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 17:46, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
I have moved the article back to the old consensus name. If someone wants to name him after only one of the territories he ruled like "Eric X of Iceland" or Eric X of Denmark", it should be based on consensus on this talkpage.-- Berig ( talk) 08:38, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
Per request, some related page moves will be listed here. So far, these include Eric I of Denmark and Eric II of Denmark, but please feel free to add others here as appropriate. Wilhelm_meis ( talk) 02:35, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
The results of my search are such:
I would suggest that at least Eric I, Eric VI and Eric VII be moved to Eric the Good, Eric Menved and Eric of Pomerania respectively. For some of the others it might be a matter of discussion and consensus whether they should be moved or whether they should stay. ·Maunus·ƛ· 02:42, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - This is likely to create an unnecessary inconsistency and make it much more difficult to figure out who is who and what the various (often arbitrary) translations of their epithets mean and stand for. Some kings had different epithets depending on who was doing the name-calling. Christian II has been widely called the Tyrant in Sweden, but the good in Denmark. That's why he is always referred to only as Christian II. Many kings and others unfortunately have begun to have translated names that are more or less etymologically disastrous. Erik Menved should be called Eric Meanwith if his name is to be translated with some semblance of etymological accuracy. Eric Menved (with a c in Eric) makes no sense to me. In any case, in English, roman numerals automatically clear this linguistic stickiness up very nicely and all these problems disappear. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 07:05, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm okay with "Eric of Pomerania," but I think the google search you have done is quite dubious - you are ignoring cases where they are referred to as "Eric V" or "Eric VI" without "of Denmark". I very much do not think that "Eric Menved" or "Eric Clipping" are very commonly used in English. "Eric VI" and "Eric V" are pretty unproblematic, and are fairly commonly used. I don't see any reason for these moves. john k ( talk) 21:20, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Consensus not to move. Ucucha 03:05, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Eric of Pomerania →
Eric VII of Denmark — The other four monarchs of the
Kalmar Union are unambiguously described as "of Denmark" in their article title, indicating that Denmark was the dominant partner in that union. See
WP:NCROY for guidance on cognomens and dual or triple monarchies.
PatGallacher (
talk) 22:21, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Support - Time to start curbing the all-too-firmly-rooted "of Pomerania" nonsense in naming this king of Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
SergeWoodzing (
talk) 22:03, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. He is by far more known as Eric of Pomerania, not only in Denmark, Sweden and Norway but also the English speaking world. Närking ( talk) 22:15, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Since I raised this I discovered another monarch, Christopher of Bavaria, who I suggest should be moved to "Christopher III of Denmark". We do need a consistent naming convention for monarchs of the Kalmar Union. PatGallacher ( talk) 22:31, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. If it's the most common name there is no need to change it. This arguement is similar to move Boris Godunov to Boris I of Russia and Agustín de Iturbide to Augustine of Mexico except Eric and Christopher had other countries that were of. As for SergeWoodzing's arguement, Adolf Fredrik and Charles X Gustav actually established a line of kings that ruled after them unlike Eric of Pomerania and Christopher of Bavaria, who only ruled in their own lifetimes.
I changed the info box portrait to one with better color and more of him visible. Another editor changed it back to the severely cropped version with dull color, giving the opinion that the new one is not better and the question "who wants to see the frame?" I am reverting that, not to make war but to discuss. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 07:38, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Cecilia (royal mistress) should be merged into Eric of Pomerania. Cecilia is only notable in the context of being Eric's mistress, so a separate article is unnecessary. Also, there is very little information about her; this information can be merged into Eric's page without causing article size problems. Jenphalian ( talk) 02:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Eric gryf. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 22:02, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
This is from the biography by Herman Lindqvist which was released this August. I actually contacted Lindqivst after I read this claim, since he doesn't cite any sources for it in his work. He told me that this was something several Polish popular historians claimed, but that neither he nor any other historian he knew had a primary source for it. There is obviously a case to be made for Eric being considered the equal to an emperor in his own time, since he was depicted as an equal alongside Sigismund (at that time King of the Romans) and John VIII of the Byzantine Empire, but in my opinion this can at most be considered a speculative claim. In my opinion it would be better to create a new section exploring this possibility and remove it from the introduction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.162.92.145 ( talk) 08:00, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
Shouldn't dates in the right column show Norway 1389-1442, Sweden 1396-1434, 1436-1439 and Denmark in 1396-1439 followed by dukedom 1146-1459 so that they are chronologically listed, separated by countries/titles and correct? I understand Margaret I was the boss until 1412 but the actual dates do not seem to be listed correctly.
ICE77 ( talk) 22:36, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Regarding this revert: there is no apparent reason to give the literal translation of the Polish name Eryk Pomorski as it gives no information for the reader. The pejorative name "Erik of Pomerania" was supposedly first used in Scandinavian languages, and 'Eryk Pomorski' is just a Slavicization of that. Why should that be translated? To read a bit on how names are formed from toponyms in Polish, see the article Polish names#Suffix -ski/-ska. The form 'Pomorski' (lit. Pomeranian) instead of 'z Pomorza' (lit. from Pomerania) was used to emphasize nobility. The literal translation does not convey even that information.
The usage of language templates in the reverted edit was related to accessibility, see MOS:LANG. Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 16:18, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
The caricature is contemporary (I believe the full picture also features a Byzantine Emperor and, if I remember correctly, the Holy Roman Emperor). Do we have any information about the Polish portait and its age? Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 23:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Twthmoses rightly identifies the three crowns in Eric's union arms as representing the Kalmar Union, and not Sweden. But he objects to the idea that the dividing cross also refers to this union. We will probably never know for sure, but it is very likely 'not' a Dannebrog cross, which would only refer to one of the three kingdoms of this union. The Dannebrog cross appearing in later greater arms of Denmark-Norway is usually shown with fimbriated edges in order to identify it expressly as derived from the flag, with a white cross on a red field. The cross in Eric's union seal is more likely the red cross of the flag that he unsuccessfully tried to adopt for the Kalmar union. That theory has been advocated by the well-known Danish expert on heraldry, Nils G. Bartholdy. See his article: "De tre kroner og korset. Unionssymbolik, ambition og rivalitet", in: Heraldisk tidsskrift, 76 (1997), pp. 233-260. More on the flag of Norden in the FOTW article http://flagspot.net/flags/xn_nordn.html.
The Kalmar union flag had a red cross on a yellow field. The colours were possibly chosen because they were those of the only hereditary kingdom, Norway. On a statue depicting Karl VIII of Sweden, also king of Norway for some years, he is shown carrying the union arms of Sweden and Norway, quartered by a red cross with gold fimbriation. This cross is presumed to be the same "Nordic" cross, appropriated from the Kalmar union arms, probably to demonstrate Karl's claim to be the rightful ruler of that union.
Roede 14:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Nils G. Bartholdy: "De tre kroner og korset. Unionssymbolik, ambition og rivalitet", in: Heraldisk tidsskrift, 76 (1997), pp. 233-260 Poul Grinder-Hansen: "Kalmarunionens flag", in: Nyt fra Nationalmuseet, 6 (1996), p. 6 Nils G. Bartholdy: "Kroner og kors som unionssymboler", in: Poul Grinder-Hansen (ed.): Unionsdrottningen: Margareta I och Kalmarunionen, Föreningen Norden: Stockholm, 1996, pp. 92-97
The triple crown may have been used by the Union, but it predates the Union in its use in Sweden, such as its appearance in the seal of Albert of Sweden and continues today to have wide recognition as a Swedish symbol. That is why I identified the triple crown of the sinister chief quarter as representative of Sweden. My fix to the seal's description, however, was primarily geared toward putting things in the proper quarters, as the previous version had the quarters all mixed up. At least now we are properly identifying dexter and sinister, chief and base, as (anatomic) right and left, top and bottom, respectively. Wilhelm meis 20:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
True, the Kalmar Union flag is only known from two written sources - but they are quite clear about the shape and colours of the flag. According to the FOTW site, "it is described in two letters, both dating from the year 1430. In these letters, king Erik of Pomerania wrote to the priests of Vadstena and Kalmar instructing them to wear on their robes the banner of the realms (union), which were a red cross on a yellow field. Bartholdy is of the opinion that the red cross on a yellow field may have been a conscious choice as new and distinct flag for the union, based on a universal symbol, the cross, and taking the most significant colours from the arms of the three united kingdoms, primarily that of Norway as an inherited realm (king Erik of Pomerania inherited Norway in 1389, several years before being elected king of Denmark and Sweden), but the yellow field also from the arms of Sweden and Denmark at the time." Substantial proof in the shape of actually preserved flags or depictions thereof from that time would be something of a miracle.
I advise a visit to the tomb of Queen Margrethe in Roskilde Cathedral. I recall that her coat of arms is carved in marble, and that it is identical to that of Erik. If my memory serves me right, the cross is without the fimbriations associated with Dannebrog crosses.
The much reproduced but now lost flag of Lübeck is not a very reliable source, as the tinctures of the union arms are mixed up. The arms of Norway (in the lower quadrant near the hoist) shows the lion on a blue field. (Norway is not missing — the colour of the field has made you draw the wrong conlusion). In my opinion, only an act of strong faith can make one see it as a Dannebrog. True, the white cross is present, but in view of the fact that the colours are unreliable, how do we know that the creator of this flag knew the correct colour of the union cross? The most characteristic element, the red field, is missing. (The red "tail" of the flag must be regarded as a mere ornament. The colour is too far out of place to be interpreted as a reference to Dannebrog).
By the way, there is also scant evidence that Dannebrog was actually in common use at the time. Do we have any other evidence than the banner embellishing the arms of the King of Denmark in the Gelre armorial from about 1370? Can one infer from that piece of evidence that the Dannebrog was regarded as the "official" flag of the king or his kingdom?
I propose that we let the matter rest and keep the description in the article unchanged until we have studied the evidence more closely. Roede 23:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I have since found compelling evidence to reverse my previous thought that the Folkung Lion was a Finnish symbol. It turns out that my original source was a bit upside down, and the Folkung Lion as a Swedish symbol significantly predates the use of derivative symbols in Finland. Thanks Roede for challenging the notion. I have corrected the description on this page and the Kalmar Union page. I still maintain, however, that the evidence for retaining the description of the Triple Crown as a Swedish symbol and not as primarily a symbol of the Kalmar Union is overwhelming. Again, its use as a specifically Swedish symbol both significantly predates and survives the Kalmar Union itself. Wilhelm meis ( talk) 20:08, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Copied from User talk:Barend:
I am just curious why you changed the description of Eric's seal to link the lion to "Norway" instead of the "Hereditary Kingdom of Norway". Perhaps it's splitting hairs, but from a heraldic perspective (and this is in a heraldic context), I would think of "the Hereditary Kingdom of Norway" as the more precisely accurate description of what is represented by the lion maintaining an axe, as depicted in the inescutcheon in the center of the seal. If you have a compelling reason for the change, I'd like to know. Thank you. Wilhelm meis (talk) 20:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
The rest of the description linked to Denmark, Sweden, etc, the respective countries to which the parts of the seal referred. I see no reason why it shouldn't also link to Norway, which is what the lion referred to. The article hereditary kingdom of Norway is a not very good article about the way the Norwegian throne was inherited at various points in its history. The name "hereditary kingdom of Norway" is not very precise, it has never been an official name of the country, and whether Norway was, in fact, hereditary at this point in time is, in fact, open to debate. I see no reason why that article should be linked to from this place. If you want to be accurate, you could of course change the description to "the kingdom of Sweden, the kingdom of Denmark, the duchy of Pomerania, the kingdom of Norway", etc, but still have the links go to Sweden, Denmark and Norway. --Barend (talk) 21:12, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Fair enough. Thank you for the discussion. As I previously mentioned, I am looking at this from a purely heraldic perspective. As discussed here, the coat of arms in question (depicted within the inescutcheon) originated not as a symbol of Norway per se, but as a symbol of King Eirik Magnusson of Norway, personally. Since the coat of arms, along with the kingdom, was passed down the hereditary line, I think it is more accurate to link the one with the other, rather than directly equating the device with the nation state of Norway (a correlation that eventually developed with the cultural development of the national identity in the 19th century). Basically, I think to us in the 21st century, it represents Norway, but to Erik of Pomerania and his contemporaries, it represented Norway as the domain of Eirik Magnusson and his heirs. Wilhelm meis (talk) 23:20, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I think I see what you mean. You have a good point, but I don't think the specific article hereditary kingdom of Norway is any better to link to in that case. An important point is that Eric didn't, in fact, get the kingdom passed down the hereditary line, it ended up with him as the result of political decisions - basically he was elected in Norway as well. And anyway, the point would be the same for Sweden and Denmark as well, not just Norway.--Barend (talk) 11:28, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
I would counter that whether or not he inherited the Kingdom of Norway, the symbol still (at the time) represented the concept of the hereditary kingdom. Again, I am looking at this from a heraldic perspective; there are others who know much more than I do about the actual history of the period. In any case, thank you for the thoughtful discussion. May I copy this to the Talk:Eric_of_Pomerania page? Wilhelm meis (talk) 02:12, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Wilhelm meis ( talk) 23:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
The article says that he was Duke of Stolp/Słupsk from 1449-59. Dukes of Pomerania lists a "Casimir I" as the duke during that time period. Olessi ( talk) 20:00, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
It seems like there is some evidence for this. [3] [4] I found this while I was making the article on Royal coronations in Norway. Does anyone know more about it? -- Nidator T / C 20:13, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
Articles are to be located at the most commonly used name - it doesn't matter that other kings are located at their numeric title. Eric of Pomerania is never referred to as Eric 7 but invariably as Eric of Pomerania. This is like moving Gorm the Old to Gorm 1 or Magnus the Pious to Magnus 1st. The article has to be moved back. ·Maunus·ƛ· 18:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - Since both names are legitimate and established the numeraled one should be used (1) to match the other numeraled Danish kings by the name of Eric and (2) to avoid strange wording like King Eric of Pomerania of Denmark, Norway and Sweden. There is also global perspective involved. "Eric of Pomerania" makes no sense in many languages to name a king of other countries than Pomerania. In some languages, such as Polish (his native language) he is called Eric the Pomeranian. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 15:17, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Support – An obvious problem with the current title is that he wasn't king of just Denmark, which also gives him different numerals. In Sweden he is also always known as Erik av Pommern. Närking ( talk) 15:20, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
New proposal - Citing my own comment here, and the error I made there, I propose the page should be renamned (that's what I call the moves entailed) Eric III of Norway as he was king there seven years before he was king of Denmark and Sweden. Truly sorry about this flub of mine! SergeWoodzing ( talk) 17:32, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
PS - all the redirects are already in there I now see. The only thing needed is filling the Eric III page and redirecting the others to it, moving talk pages. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 17:46, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
I have moved the article back to the old consensus name. If someone wants to name him after only one of the territories he ruled like "Eric X of Iceland" or Eric X of Denmark", it should be based on consensus on this talkpage.-- Berig ( talk) 08:38, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
Per request, some related page moves will be listed here. So far, these include Eric I of Denmark and Eric II of Denmark, but please feel free to add others here as appropriate. Wilhelm_meis ( talk) 02:35, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
The results of my search are such:
I would suggest that at least Eric I, Eric VI and Eric VII be moved to Eric the Good, Eric Menved and Eric of Pomerania respectively. For some of the others it might be a matter of discussion and consensus whether they should be moved or whether they should stay. ·Maunus·ƛ· 02:42, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
Oppose - This is likely to create an unnecessary inconsistency and make it much more difficult to figure out who is who and what the various (often arbitrary) translations of their epithets mean and stand for. Some kings had different epithets depending on who was doing the name-calling. Christian II has been widely called the Tyrant in Sweden, but the good in Denmark. That's why he is always referred to only as Christian II. Many kings and others unfortunately have begun to have translated names that are more or less etymologically disastrous. Erik Menved should be called Eric Meanwith if his name is to be translated with some semblance of etymological accuracy. Eric Menved (with a c in Eric) makes no sense to me. In any case, in English, roman numerals automatically clear this linguistic stickiness up very nicely and all these problems disappear. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 07:05, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm okay with "Eric of Pomerania," but I think the google search you have done is quite dubious - you are ignoring cases where they are referred to as "Eric V" or "Eric VI" without "of Denmark". I very much do not think that "Eric Menved" or "Eric Clipping" are very commonly used in English. "Eric VI" and "Eric V" are pretty unproblematic, and are fairly commonly used. I don't see any reason for these moves. john k ( talk) 21:20, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Consensus not to move. Ucucha 03:05, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Eric of Pomerania →
Eric VII of Denmark — The other four monarchs of the
Kalmar Union are unambiguously described as "of Denmark" in their article title, indicating that Denmark was the dominant partner in that union. See
WP:NCROY for guidance on cognomens and dual or triple monarchies.
PatGallacher (
talk) 22:21, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Support - Time to start curbing the all-too-firmly-rooted "of Pomerania" nonsense in naming this king of Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
SergeWoodzing (
talk) 22:03, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. He is by far more known as Eric of Pomerania, not only in Denmark, Sweden and Norway but also the English speaking world. Närking ( talk) 22:15, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Since I raised this I discovered another monarch, Christopher of Bavaria, who I suggest should be moved to "Christopher III of Denmark". We do need a consistent naming convention for monarchs of the Kalmar Union. PatGallacher ( talk) 22:31, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Oppose. If it's the most common name there is no need to change it. This arguement is similar to move Boris Godunov to Boris I of Russia and Agustín de Iturbide to Augustine of Mexico except Eric and Christopher had other countries that were of. As for SergeWoodzing's arguement, Adolf Fredrik and Charles X Gustav actually established a line of kings that ruled after them unlike Eric of Pomerania and Christopher of Bavaria, who only ruled in their own lifetimes.
I changed the info box portrait to one with better color and more of him visible. Another editor changed it back to the severely cropped version with dull color, giving the opinion that the new one is not better and the question "who wants to see the frame?" I am reverting that, not to make war but to discuss. SergeWoodzing ( talk) 07:38, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
Cecilia (royal mistress) should be merged into Eric of Pomerania. Cecilia is only notable in the context of being Eric's mistress, so a separate article is unnecessary. Also, there is very little information about her; this information can be merged into Eric's page without causing article size problems. Jenphalian ( talk) 02:53, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Eric gryf. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 22:02, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
This is from the biography by Herman Lindqvist which was released this August. I actually contacted Lindqivst after I read this claim, since he doesn't cite any sources for it in his work. He told me that this was something several Polish popular historians claimed, but that neither he nor any other historian he knew had a primary source for it. There is obviously a case to be made for Eric being considered the equal to an emperor in his own time, since he was depicted as an equal alongside Sigismund (at that time King of the Romans) and John VIII of the Byzantine Empire, but in my opinion this can at most be considered a speculative claim. In my opinion it would be better to create a new section exploring this possibility and remove it from the introduction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.162.92.145 ( talk) 08:00, 5 October 2021 (UTC)
Shouldn't dates in the right column show Norway 1389-1442, Sweden 1396-1434, 1436-1439 and Denmark in 1396-1439 followed by dukedom 1146-1459 so that they are chronologically listed, separated by countries/titles and correct? I understand Margaret I was the boss until 1412 but the actual dates do not seem to be listed correctly.
ICE77 ( talk) 22:36, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Regarding this revert: there is no apparent reason to give the literal translation of the Polish name Eryk Pomorski as it gives no information for the reader. The pejorative name "Erik of Pomerania" was supposedly first used in Scandinavian languages, and 'Eryk Pomorski' is just a Slavicization of that. Why should that be translated? To read a bit on how names are formed from toponyms in Polish, see the article Polish names#Suffix -ski/-ska. The form 'Pomorski' (lit. Pomeranian) instead of 'z Pomorza' (lit. from Pomerania) was used to emphasize nobility. The literal translation does not convey even that information.
The usage of language templates in the reverted edit was related to accessibility, see MOS:LANG. Jähmefyysikko ( talk) 16:18, 23 May 2024 (UTC)